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#54116 - 01/04/10 12:59 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Not new to biab but new to vst plugins
Master Joeda Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 5
Hi everyone,

I've been using biab for a long time now with my students and absolutely love it.

I used to use the Roland VSC plug-in with my old laptop that died (vista), it sounded OK but I always wanted better sound.

Anyhoo...

My new laptop has Windows 7 64bit on it and VSC is no longer supported. (read that here in the forum)

I own Native Instruments Komplete 6 with the Kontakt 4 player/vst plugin.
The only problem is that I can't figure out how to get biab to use the vst plug in.

It loads up fine in biab, but when I click play it still uses the built in sound cards crappy midi sound.

Also, in Kontakt 4 when I load a patch and click on the piano keyboard at the bottom I hear/see nothing.
This is weird cause when I load up the stand alone player and do the same thing I hear the instrument just fine.

I'm really frustrated! please guide me!

I want to be able to play backing tracks with good sound quality again!

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#54117 - 01/04/10 01:02 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Not new to biab but new to vst plugins [Re: Master Joeda]
Master Joeda Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 5
Oh forgot to mention this... I'm using biab 2008

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#54118 - 01/04/10 01:14 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Not new to biab but new to vst plugins [Re: Master Joeda]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13713
Loc: Australia
Under Opt. >> Midi/Audio Driver Setup, if the plug-in is supported by BIAB, you'll need to go to "VST/DXi Synth Settings" and locate the plug-in in the drop-down menu. Do this in the top slot and make sure that "Edit" is selected. Close that window. You should now be back in the Midi/Audio Driver Setup window. Put a check mark beside "Use VST/DXi Synth. Under GM2 support (in the same window) select General Midi 2.
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#54119 - 01/04/10 01:49 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Not new to biab but new to vst plugins [Re: Noel96]
Master Joeda Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 5
I tried to follow your directions but got lost, when I try to check the box that says "DXi" it gives me a message saying that there are no dxi's installed.
Also, the button that says "DXi synth settings" is greyed out and not clickable.


Edited by Master Joeda (01/04/10 01:52 AM)

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#54120 - 01/04/10 06:09 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Not new to biab but new to vst plugins [Re: Master Joeda]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13713
Loc: Australia
Try clicking on the "DXi" icon on the tool bar. It's on the same line as Melodist and Soloist. See what happens. Here is a faq page put together by PGMusic. I'm not sure if there is anything there, but it might be worth the look.

http://www.pgmusic.com/techfaq17.htm
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#54121 - 01/04/10 06:59 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Not new to biab but new to vst plugins [Re: Master Joeda]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13713
Loc: Australia
Quote:

...Windows 7 64bit on it and VSC is no longer supported. (read that here in the forum)

I own Native Instruments Komplete 6 with the Kontakt 4 player/vst plugin.
The only problem is that I can't figure out how to get biab to use the vst plug in.

It loads up fine in biab, but when I click play it still uses the built in sound cards crappy midi sound.




What do you mean by "loads up fine"?

I did a search for Kontakt 4 and it seems that it might not be compatible. Have a look at Edward Buckley's third post in the following thread (you need to scroll about 1/3 of the way down). Ed mentions that it's "not GM compatible" which would explain why the VST/DXi setting option is grayed out. (The VST synth needs to be GM compatible.)

http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=249846

I know nothing about Kontakt so I cannot answer specific questions. I'm sure that someone who does know the product will read this post and answer your questions.

Good luck,
Noel


Edited by Noel96 (01/04/10 07:56 AM)
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#54122 - 01/04/10 09:25 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Not new to biab but new to vst plugins [Re: Noel96]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11449
Loc: Hamlin NY
Quote:

Ed mentions that it's "not GM compatible" which would explain why the VST/DXi setting option is grayed out. (The VST synth needs to be GM compatible.)

Good luck,
Noel




Hi Noel, A VSTi does not need to be GM compatible to work in BiaB. Any compatible VSTi will work. You need a GM VSTI if you want to hear all of the instruments correctly, ie drums, piano, guitar etc. If I would load an organ only VSTi all I would hear is organ on all channels.

I have found that Kontakt 3.5 is not compatible with BiaB. I doubt Kontakt 4 would work either.
_________________________
My mind is like my Internet browser: 19 tabs open, 3 of them are frozen & I have no idea where the music is coming from.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#54123 - 01/04/10 10:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Not new to biab but new to vst plugins [Re: Master Joeda]
rkl122 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 495
Loc: NJ
Quote:

I tried to follow your directions but got lost, when I try to check the box that says "DXi" it gives me a message saying that there are no dxi's installed.
Also, the button that says "DXi synth settings" is greyed out and not clickable.


Try this: in that DXi interface - accessible from the tool bar if grayed out via the Prefs=>Midi Driver route - in the dialog with the "synth track" and "audio track" tabs, click options, then "scan for New DXi plugins." Then see if any has appeared in the dropdown. If not, you may need to try some of the other buttons on the Options popup. The first thing I'd do is check the exclusion list.

Note: If you have plugins registered on your system and in use with other programs, there is the possibility that registering them here may raise an issue for the other programs. I'm not sure about that, but might be best to check that nothing's changed in the other programs if you do any registration here. (I use Cakewalk's TTS-1 in both Sonar and BB, no problem.)

HTH, RonL

Edit - Whoops, I see Noel gave similar advice. Sorry to repeat; maybe the details will help.

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#54124 - 01/04/10 10:49 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Not new to biab but new to vst plugins [Re: rkl122]
ZeroZero Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/15/07
Posts: 1632
Loc: Bynar
If you own Komplete I thought you would own Kontakt rather than the Kontakt player, both are samplers rather than GM synths. A GM synth, e.g. Roland VSC, fortedxi, is simply an applkicarion that substitutes a list of improved (viz compared to MIDI) sounds which are equivilent to the MIDI sounds. For example sound 1 would be a better piano sound - possibly a sampled piano, sound 15 a better tubular bells. The full list is 128 sounds. A GM synth simply gives you improved sounds. GM is a convention that says if I ask for sound 1 then I get a grand piano, if I ask for list item 15 then I want a tubular bell. It does not say the quality of the sound. A GM synth provided a better quality sound than MIDI synthetic sounds - frequently the sound is an acutal set of samples, but not always. A GM synth's sound set is better than synthesised sounds (like the dreadful trumpets) but it is a longt way from the best sounds. Getting a 'real' acoustic sounding sound together has many different aspects - some of which are very difficult to achieve for certain instruments - vibrato for example , can come in zillions of forms as can tonguing. A top VST for a piano will contain gigabytes of carefully layered samples for each note, meticulously recorded for each dynamic and volume, then there is the matter of reverb and ambience... your humble GM synth cant do all this - yet it is better aurally than basic synthesised sound of the WIndows type.

I use fortedxi with my 64 bit system and it works. I also have Kontakt but would not use it for this purpose. Kotakt is very powerful - overkill really for such a task. I am not sure if its possible to use it in this way. My Kontakt is 64 bit I dont know if it runs in 32 bit BAIB. If you have RealBand then this might be more suitable.

I am new here so take my answers with a little caution, but purchasing ForteDXI is inexpensive, an easy option and is working here. RealBand is more suitable for adding guest VSTs such as the Komplete stuff. If you go that way you might want to read my post on real band set up
http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/showfl...ge=0#Post255466

The best backing tracks of all are the real tracks - unquestionably. A good GM synth is better than straight MIDI, but not quite as authentic as the real thing used in real tracks.

Zero


Edited by ZeroZero (01/04/10 11:12 AM)
_________________________
Every Day I use BIAB and love it

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#54125 - 01/05/10 07:45 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Not new to biab but new to vst plugins [Re: ZeroZero]
Asian Sun Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 75
I tend to agree with the observation that you need a GM synth that one the gives a full set of instruments. I think Native Instruments Bandstand is one such thing, although BIAB has some "delay" problems with NI BS. But if BIAB 2010 addressed the delay issues, the NI BS samples are really great.

The Sonar's Cakewalk TTS-1 which i think is a Roland VST plug in is also a good one, and works on BIAB better than NI BS, and sounds better than the Roland included in BIAB.

The samples in Kontakt and in NI's Maschine are great, and I hope you guys can find a way to make it work in BIAB.

On another note, the Real Guitar and Real Strat VS Plugins are good for the Guitar channels.

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#54126 - 01/05/10 08:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Not new to biab but new to vst plugins [Re: rkl122]
Master Joeda Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 5
Quote:

Quote:

I tried to follow your directions but got lost, when I try to check the box that says "DXi" it gives me a message saying that there are no dxi's installed.
Also, the button that says "DXi synth settings" is greyed out and not clickable.


Try this: in that DXi interface - accessible from the tool bar if grayed out via the Prefs=>Midi Driver route - in the dialog with the "synth track" and "audio track" tabs, click options, then "scan for New DXi plugins." Then see if any has appeared in the dropdown. If not, you may need to try some of the other buttons on the Options popup. The first thing I'd do is check the exclusion list.

Note: If you have plugins registered on your system and in use with other programs, there is the possibility that registering them here may raise an issue for the other programs. I'm not sure about that, but might be best to check that nothing's changed in the other programs if you do any registration here. (I use Cakewalk's TTS-1 in both Sonar and BB, no problem.)

HTH, RonL

Edit - Whoops, I see Noel gave similar advice. Sorry to repeat; maybe the details will help.




I tried this too with no luck.

By the way I noticed that some people are not 100% sure if Kontakt 4 works with biab.

How does this guy do it? YouTube Video - Biab with Kontakt 4

I can get the interface to load up, but when I load a patch the progress bar shows on the screen that it is loading, but then I get no sound from the kontakt 4 plug-in... Just the regular crappy midi on-board sound.

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#54127 - 01/05/10 08:39 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Not new to biab but new to vst plugins [Re: Master Joeda]
Edward Buckley Offline
Expert

Registered: 03/27/06
Posts: 812
Loc: Guadalajara, Mexico
Hi Guys,

What I meant to say in my post is that Kontakt is not GM compatible in the sense that it will not load patches for you automatically using GM program change commands. You would need to load each patch into every BIAB song, which is very time consuming, but the musical results could be fantastic.

Here is what I got from the Native Instruments site>

In general, users involved in professional audio production or live performance should be cautious about upgrading to Windows 7 until compatibility with third-party audio software and hardware has been widely confirmed by the relevant manufacturers.

Native Instruments will continue to monitor the operation of its products under Windows 7, and will update this page with eventual new information as it becomes available.

I do really recommend the Cakewalk Music Creator program, because it lets you use the TTS-1, which is a decent sounding GM softsynth, for BIAB. For $35, its a good deal.

Ed


Edited by Edward Buckley (01/05/10 08:45 PM)

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#54128 - 01/05/10 09:45 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Not new to biab but new to vst plugins [Re: Master Joeda]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13713
Loc: Australia
The guy on YouTube might be using a 32-bit operating system. When you load Kontakt as a plug-in, which slot is it in? I understand that softsyths need to be in the top slot.
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#54129 - 01/05/10 10:36 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Not new to biab but new to vst plugins [Re: Noel96]
Master Joeda Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 5
Quote:

The guy on YouTube might be using a 32-bit operating system. When you load Kontakt as a plug-in, which slot is it in? I understand that softsyths need to be in the top slot.




It is on top.

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#54130 - 01/05/10 11:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Not new to biab but new to vst plugins [Re: Master Joeda]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13713
Loc: Australia
As mentioned before, I know nothing about Kontakt. Have you loaded in any VST/DXi synths in BIAB? If not, it might be worthwhile trying one that loads easily just so you can "get a feel for the process" of how using VSTi works. Coyote's Forte can be downloaded and tried for 30 days without commitment. It's a full functioning version.

Have you tried Kontakt in Realband to see if there is any difference in loading?

I'd like to be more help but the above is the best I can do with my present understanding

JUST IN CASE IT IS ON INTEREST...
A process that I sometimes use when I want to use soundfonts is to use BIAB to arrange a song. I use entirely midi styles and save them as a midi file. I then import that midi file into Sonar Home Studio. This is the environment that I understand best with plugins. I'd then take the midi file and use various plugins to get it the best possible. When Realtracks and Realdrums came along, I then used to open the midi in Realband, add some Real-instruments and then transfer those wav files to Sonar.


Edited by Noel96 (01/05/10 11:18 PM)
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#54131 - 01/06/10 04:20 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Not new to biab but new to vst plugins [Re: Master Joeda]
Andrew - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 3782
Loc: Victoria, BC
Hi,

Quote:

I tried to follow your directions but got lost, when I try to check the box that says "DXi" it gives me a message saying that there are no dxi's installed.
Also, the button that says "DXi synth settings" is greyed out and not clickable.




With BB08, you'll need to install a DXi synth - any DXi synth will do. You can download the ForteDXi Demo, from here.
http://www.pgmusic.com/fortedxi.htm

Once that's installed, then you'll be able to check that box, and as long as you've added the Kontakt synth as a <VSTi> plugin, it should work.
_________________________
Andrew
PG Music Inc.

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