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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2006
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OP
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Hi everybody!
I'd like to know if it is possible to create custom RealTracks styles like the way we can with RealDrums.
I'm very interested in this subject so any info would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I'd like to know if it is possible to create custom RealTracks styles
If you are asking if you can create your own RealTracks instruments (say from your own playing or samples that you have), the answer is NO. That instructions for doing that has not been provided to us yet, as it has with RealDrums.
If you are asking if you can create your own styles (which you select from the StylePicker) to mix-and-match existing RealTracks into a "band", the answer is YES; check out the StyleMaker, where you can substitute RealTracks for any of the MIDI instruments.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2006
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OP
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I'm afraid I meant the first thing you mention.. :-(
I'd like to be able to create RealTracks instruments from my own recordings and samples.
Any idea if such functionality will be available to us in the future?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Whether or when we can do that is up to the developers. I suspect it has to do with their business model, as in if they let you make your own (and then perhaps sell them or give them away), the PGMusic runs the risk of not selling very many, especially since it's such a niche market. It also makes for good quality control, as well as integration into the entire program (styles, soloists, etc).
But I'm just speculating here...
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I think it may have more to do with protecting various pieces of the Intellectual Property that takes place behind the scenes. -- Which can be viewed as part of a business model, I guess.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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I'm afraid I'll have to dissagree with you on that.
PGMusic and BB have built up their name and fame on the endless possibilities and options they always gave to musicians and music lovers.
They have never marketed their products as business objects but rather as ways to musical expression.
This has been the case with all of the BB aspects like styles, melodists, soloists, RealDrums, addons, etc...
It looks like they have never invested more time than it was needed to deliver their great applications, on things like marketing campaigns or aspects of the program itself that have visual impact to the market (like vista glass animated and shiny ui for example).
In my opinion, if BB should be treated and marketed like a business object / tool for professional studios then the price should be no less than 3000usd! (..before laughing we should consider how much money and time a professional production studio can avoid paying on session musicians, recording engineers etc just by using BB for parts of the production in combination with pro sound modules and synths).
But that's not the case with PGMusic.
I believe that RealTracks is a new programming concept to the developers and when they feel they have the grisp of it they will give us the knowledge needed to take it to the next level with custom created RealTracks instruments.
And I also believe that they have nothing to be afraid of about the sales of their original RealTracks packs.
Noone of us could replace the instrument options and quality they can provide.
This has also been the case with custom midi styles. All these years only a couple of developers managed to create custom styles that they could sell (like Norton) but as far as I know they never succedeed on replacing the PGMusic provided styles.
These are my thoughts on the subject.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Noone of us could replace the instrument options and quality they can provide.
I think you have underestimated the abilities of some around here in that sentence.
Or maybe you don't know about it...
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Many of us use BIAB because we may not have the talent to play the instruments(ME!) But...there are folks here that have far more ability than the average bear but are also very gracious to answer our naive question with out the hint of the talent that there.
The only thing I have thought of lately about changing RT's would be to see if bringing in the RT into Melodyne's new DNA would allow some changes in tempo and note arrangement.
Just a thought, Wyndham
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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Hi Mac
I'm sure that there are a lot of great musicians around that could benefit from the creation of custom RealTracks instruments that would probably make the PGMusic created ones sound like midi.. :-)
My point is that most musicians are masters of some instruments (..not all) and most of the times on specific music genres.
For example, I'm mainly a guitar player who also plays some bass guitar and for the last couple of years I try to also learn how to play the piano.
My style of playing is mostly jazz/funk. I can of course play some heavy metal tunes but it sounds really odd when by mistake I touch the Maj 7ths while plugged on the grungiest overdrive pedal you've ever heard of!..
It's just that I'm not used to play heavy metal style..
So, going back to my point, if I had the freedom I would surely record some great funky guitar tunes and turn them to RealTracks instruments. But I would still need the PGMusic's drums, bass, saxophone, etc, etc, etc great RealTracks to complete my songs.
I'm sure that there are people with great abilities around. But I'm also sure that there is noone around that is a master of all the instruments and styles a full band needs to create complete music.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Skokk, I don't think anyone is disputing that it would be nice if we users could create custom Real Tracks like we could create custom Real Drums (although I have yet to see one marketed). But PG Music uses a proprietary process to create their Real Tracks. It may simply not be possible to release it to us, or John could be correct and they may not want to because of their business model. Whatever their reason, the best we can do is post in the Wishlist that we would like to have this capability someday. I am quite certain it would involve a lot of work.
Wyndham, yes, Melodyne with DNA is very cool. I suppose if there were something horrible in a Real Track that I thought was essential to fix, I might go in and play with it in Melodyne. However, it's much faster and easier just to edit or mute a part as it occurs. Tempo is a whole other topic.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I'm afraid I'll have to dissagree with you on that.
Wow, I guess I must have been completely wrong. Or we can agree to disagree (with one "s").
Either way, you can't create your own RealTracks and that was PGMusic's decision. I'm okay with that. Maybe one day we'll be able to do so...
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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It's not just whether people can create better realtracks. Could they do it cost effectively? Considering all the work it would take me to get the recording, cut it up, arrange the splicing, and then debug the whole thing could not be accomplished for what they charge. Not here anyway.
Another thought. Maybe no single one of us could make all the instruments we need, as pointed out in OP's 2nd post. But with a little networking we could create some pretty cool realtracks collections.. that would be the concern. Not a one of us, but a bunch of us.
However it would still be quite a time investment.
Plus their variety covers a lot of stuff already and it's growing every day. It works quite well for what it is. If you need a track done in a certain style it may be more cost effective to just record it with a player. The editing and cleaning up of the pieces would be a ton of work to make a realtrack. Then comes the assembly part when generated ..
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2004
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To a degree, some of this reminds me of what remains my favorite PC golf game, Jack Nicklaus. After years of selling add-on course disks, they added a design component so you could make your own courses. Tons were created and uploaded to the web for (generally) free downloading. The quality obviously varied greatly, from terrible to on occasion matching what was sold on the add-on disks. But, among other things, It allowed players the chance to play obscure/local courses once someone took the time and effort to create them -- courses that would never have been created by the manufacturer. That to me would be the primary appeal of the ability to create RealTracks -- that someone would undertake the kind of instruments I've been waiting for: surf/Ventures guitar, backup harmony singers (chords, not lyrics), ELO-type sounds, etc. Of course, the Jack Nicklaus series -- another product like BIAB and very few others for which I was always a loyal upgrader -- is no longer in production, and some might argue that providing the design capability hastened the end. Of course, I disagree -- for me it increased my interest due to the broader offerings, and it did not stop me from buying all the superb add-on course disks available.
A second reason I would like to see the ability to create custom RealTracks would be for me to create for my own use (not distributed) resources that I could employ with all the flexibility that RealTracks provide and organized with the ReatlTracks I obtain from PG Music and possibly others. That was part of the appeal of the Nicklaus designer -- I could take a ham-handed stab at these and even import my own graphics into established courses. I do not know enough of the technology behind RealTracks to know whether I would have to play in every key, etc. to create a fully-functional RealTrack, but if not and if there is some kind of automatic key change or other conversion/transposition mechanism, this would allow me to in essence "play" chords that are presently beyond my abilities.
But it's all obviously PG Music's decision, and I want them to do whatever they think best that assures they will be around and innovating forever.
www.LawTunes.com: The LawTunes - The Musical Scales of Justice - Original Lawyer Rock & Roll www.SurfChords.com: The SurfChords - The Endless Summer Continues and The Wave Never Ends
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Well first off just a simple country bass RT at 1 tempo has 37 wav files that are 5 minutes each and 37 bto files to go along. That's way to much work. Besides if you have access to making better RT why not just play the part?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Yeah, exactly. Also, all those files are needed in order for them to plug into PG's highly proprietary "secret sauce" song generation algorithm. It's highly unlikely after all these years, Peter is going to release all the coding as open source. In addition to that, every file has to be transcribed note for note so it can be converted to midi, that's how it integrates into the program and that's also how they're able to generate the notation for a lot of the RT's. That means that not only do you have to be good enough to record and put together a potential Real Track in the first place, then you have to create all those bto files and finally you have to be good enough to go back and transcribe the whole thing, that's why it takes so long for new releases. Way too much work.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Well, you both convinced me to leave it to the pros. I'll stick with designing thousand-foot-elevation tee boxes (with disclaimers, of course).
www.LawTunes.com: The LawTunes - The Musical Scales of Justice - Original Lawyer Rock & Roll www.SurfChords.com: The SurfChords - The Endless Summer Continues and The Wave Never Ends
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I've redone the settings and characters in a few games myself, both ways; using authoring tools and raw hacking. I think the realtracks would require a LOT more work than either of those. I don't think anyone has mentioned the editing time needed to divide up the recorded tracks into the usable chunks. That would take quite a bit to be done correctly; zero crossings, timing, where to divide phrases, etc.
I'm just glad they continue to add to them.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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The virtual world IS coming... We just aren't ready for it yet 
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
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