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#62198 - 02/26/10 03:17 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: FrankK]
FrankK Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 02/12/02
Posts: 196
Loc: Sydney,NSW,Australia
Quote:

Quote:

I should have mentioned this in my original post. I'm running XP SP3, 1.8 duo with 3 meg ram.




Well given Jim had no problems, based on limited evidence it looks like its a Vista 64bit bug.

Cheers F




Prado just read your posts again: So you were running XP SP3 on your Xeon ?? And clicking the x did the trick for you. If so this changes the landscape
again.

Re F

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#62199 - 02/26/10 03:33 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: FrankK]
Prado Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 127
No, I'm on XP sp3.

Prado

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#62200 - 02/26/10 04:41 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: Prado]
FrankK Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 02/12/02
Posts: 196
Loc: Sydney,NSW,Australia
Quote:

No, I'm on XP sp3.

Prado




I guess you mean Yes you were on XP sp3 ! Therefore not necessarily a Vista 64bit issue.

Well its over to the brains trust at PGMusic to work all this evidence out.
At least we can workaround until its fixed.

Re F

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#62201 - 02/26/10 07:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: FrankK]
silvertones Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7230
I do agree on a couple of opposing points.
1. If advertised to support ASIO it should work.
2. With the multitude of computer configurations , the large amount of people using this software and Windows itself it may not always work as expected.
3. There are probably thousands of people using ASIO successfully with BIAB that don't come to these forums.
4. PG Music in my opinion is a great company but probably does not have a large enough staff to do the R&D and testing of a company like Adobe or Sony. I'll take PG any day over the others quirks and all.

Do you have this box checked?
Show Warning for Untested Soundcard Formats is an optional setting that shows a warning if your ASIO driver
format has not been tested in Band-in-a-Box. This message does not necessarily mean your driver will not work,
and it can be disabled if you want.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.Wintertexaninfo.com/Bands/JohnnyD.php

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#62202 - 02/26/10 07:31 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: FrankK]
manning1 Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 1992
Loc: Canada
Prado.
(or anyone else haveing probs. )
thanks for the pic showing the rme user control panel.
firstly you can upload pics fast to stashbox.org.
without even setting up an account.
after each pic upload a link will display.
just copy the link into the thread here.
as i said lets be constructive.
lets see pics of the following mate.
1. dpc pics for both the centrino and the xeon.
2. you showed the user control panel for the rme but not the echo.
(i'll get to the rme in a moment.)
3. pics showing settings in the daw software where asio works flawlessly
showing driver and sampling n bit rate settings.
4. pics showing your own biab preference settings for drivers/asio
etc etc.
5. and for the hey of it..cos it might be important...
a pic of win task manager showing all running tasks n processes.

this way a complete picture of both your xeon and centrino systems
can be obtained.
for anyone else haveing probs with a sound device ..
just post a thread in off topic with the above pics.
you could call it...the problem sound devices thread.
(many recording forums have a sticky thread relating to sound devices that work and dont work).
and i'll take a gander at the pics and comment appropriately ..fair ??
but i need those pics in order to help.

now back to your rme prado.
for you specifically.
(yes your link to the rme control panel is the sort of user control
panel i was talking about.
viz most sound devices , even junky on board pc sound has a user control panel.
and its sometimes settings in these user control panels that trip people up.
for example ive seen numerous threads on various forums with many different types of
daw software where people sometimes wrestle with various control panels like emu n delta etc etc.)

a couple of questions.
you obviously have a sophisticated set up with the rme.
1. are you useing external clocking devices with it. ??
2. in your other daw software where asio works fine..
what bit depth n sampling rate do you have set ??

do you now have rme and asio and biab working fine
includeing the x factor ?? whats your status ??

mebe it is an issue with biab implementation of asio..
but one can only state that categorically after
exhausting other diagnostic avenues which is why those pics are important.

as i said..for other folks ..post the above pics in a thread in
the off topic section. n i'll comment appropriately.
but i cant comment intelligently unless i have pics of peoples settings.
imho this is far more constructive than just ad hoc comments.
in fact i'll go now n start a thread in off topic called
"post your problem sound devices here".
so there is a central repository hopefully for folks .
fair ??
god bless mate.
_________________________
retired puter engr....powertracks on amd......NICE !
"what is the black art of audio engineering ?"
my silly songs...motagator.com/bmanning
see my tips in the tips section.

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#62203 - 02/26/10 09:39 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: manning1]
Beagle Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 674
Loc: Fort Worth TX, USA
I'd like to clear up a misconception here. ASIO version 1 did not support multiple applications, ASIO 2 and 3 does. I've noticed that BB does not allow other applications to use the ASIO drivers, therefore I must assume that it is not ASIO 2 compliant. The reason I have reached this conclusion is because I can open BB first and it will use the ASIO drivers, but if I then open Sonar or Cubase, neither of those apps can use the ASIO drivers. same for the other way around. if I open Sonar or Cubase first, BB cannot use the ASIO drivers. HOWEVER, Sonar and Cubase open DOES allow use of the ASIO drivers at the same time!

ref: http://www.harmony-central.com/Events/WNAMM99/Steinberg/ASIO-2.0.html
note specifically the heading: ASIO 2.0 Shares Hardware with other ASIO 2.0 Applications.

What ASIO does NOT allow, however is the use of 2 or more soundcards at the same time - unless they are designed to work as ONE card such as the M-audio delta series cards are.

This is completely verifiable by testing with programs which DO comply to the ASIO2 protocol. as long as you have 2 programs which BOTH comply with ASIO2 or above, then they can BOTH access the soundcard drivers. Sonar and Cubase are both ASIO2 compliant. I can open both programs and either program can access the soundcard. BB will not, however, share the ASIO drivers and therefore I conclude that it is not ASIO2 compliant.

As has been discovered earlier by the OP, however, it's not just about the host programs' compliance to ASIO2 or 3. it's also about the soundcard's drivers. if the drivers are not written to ASIO2 or 3 compliance for the soundcard you're using, then you will also still have the problem with not being able to use multiple programs with ASIO driver mode.

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#62204 - 02/26/10 10:11 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: Beagle]
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 17418
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Thank you, Beagle. I just learned a lot.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#62205 - 02/26/10 11:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: Matt Finley]
Beagle Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 674
Loc: Fort Worth TX, USA
Glad to help, Matt!

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#62206 - 02/26/10 12:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: Beagle]
silvertones Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7230
Thanks! I'll throw you a big bone.
Might we also conclude that if BIAB is not ASIO 2 compliant that using ASIO2 drivers may also introduce issues other then not sharing? Like crashing
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.Wintertexaninfo.com/Bands/JohnnyD.php

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#62207 - 02/26/10 01:18 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: silvertones]
Prado Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 127
Wow ... Beagle ... an illumination of knowledge.

FWIW After trying the FranK Fix and finding for the first time my ASIO audio was working, I deselected the audio driver, went back to midi out and then reselected my RME ASIO drivers, this time in the normal way: Crash!

After reloading the program, no audio. Again deselected the audio, went to midi, reselected the audio and chose the RME ASIO drivers FranK Fix method. Bingo! Working perfectly.

That is as much empirical evidence as I need that the problem lies with BIAB, not my setup, drivers, other programs, etc., etc.

With this bit of knowledge gleaned from the posters here you'd think it should be a rather simple fix for PG Music, no?

Thanks.

Prado

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#62208 - 02/26/10 01:38 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: Prado]
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10542
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Quote:

[With this bit of knowledge gleaned from the posters here you'd think it should be a rather simple fix for PG Music, no?




Just to be safe, you should send a note to "support @ pgmusic dot com" (remove spaces and make appropriate substitutions) to let them know and probably reference this thread.
_________________________
John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
HP Win7Pro-64, 8GB

H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
S/W-BB/RB2018/Sonar/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
Web-http://www.sus4chord.com

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#62209 - 02/26/10 01:45 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: jford]
Beagle Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 674
Loc: Fort Worth TX, USA
John (silvertones) - it is possible, yes.

Prado - I agree with John Ford - send them a message about this and let hem know.

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#62210 - 02/26/10 02:31 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: John Conley]
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6531
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Quote:

Oh by the way, my question as to WHY ones needs ASIO was never answered. Not in an intelligent answer that makes any sense.




It actually was answered but it was buried in the middle of a long post. It's only when you're doing live midi recording using a soft synth such as me using a midi keyboard controller to play my software B4 organ program. With MME or WDM, the latency makes it virtually impossible to play live (it's around a half second or so) but ASIO gets you down to 5 ms which is measured to be basically the same delay you hear when sitting in front of a grand piano and you hit a key. I believe you use hardware synths so latency is not an issue for you but try playing your wind controller using the Forte synth or any other soft synth using the MME drivers and you'll hear it clearly because it's right in your face and trust me the delay is so bad you'll stop playing in about two seconds.
Not everybody uses all the capabilities of these programs. You can be an expert in several areas for years yet never use this or that function. This is a big deal not just for recording but for playing along in a live situation too if you use software synths.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#62211 - 02/26/10 05:22 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: Edward Buckley]
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11209
Loc: Hamlin NY
Quote:

But I still can't get the EWI USB to be seen as an input in BIAB. So, as long as I'm playing a keyboard, I'll be fine with ASIO. But if I'm playing the EWI, I have to use Reason. What a drag, as I'd love to use BIAB onstage. Now I'm experimenting using Reason with ASIO, and BIAB with MME at the same time...........
Ed




Hi Edward, FWIW I can get my EWI USB to work in BiaB using either ASIO or MME drivers. The MIDI input driver for the EWI USB on my system is called USB Audio Device. The problem is I can only select one MIDI input driver at a time. Thus for me it’s either my keyboard or the EWI USB. Is this the same for you?

This is not an issue for me as I record in Sonar however someone may have a work around. Also maybe multiple midi inputs should be placed in the wish list forum.

Keep us posted.
_________________________
I NEVER RUN WITH SCISSORS. Actually those last two words were unnecessary.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#62212 - 02/26/10 05:55 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: MarioD]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18920
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
If you need multiple MIDI input ports RB will do it easily.

They each have their strengths (RB and BiaB).
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#62213 - 02/26/10 06:15 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: rharv]
manning1 Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 1992
Loc: Canada
Prado
re empirical evidence.
actually you cant necesarily jump to that conclusion.
its not as simplistic with respect.
without understanding when you select and deselect a driver on the fly
how rme and biab and win interract with each other
and internal mesages sent and their execution within the pc.
particularly as to when chosen sound devices/drivers are open and closed.

mebe it is a biab problem...but not necessarily.
difficult to say without seeing biab internal source code
and the source code to the rme product.
and therein lies the rub mate.

ive seen the driver dance in lots of daw software.
you can see it on lots of recording forums.
my "xyz sound device wont work with abc daw software " etc etc.
a zillion threads on such . not just limited to biab.

sometimes the solution is to select the correct drivers , save the selection,
(which some people forget to do...seen that a few times.)
then exit the daw software so sound devices are closed properly.
and then re-open the daw software , and try to record n see if everything is
copacetic. just the other day i had to do this when testing out a new
sound device. set the drivers/save..close down daw...then come back in
to the daw and all was good.
there might also be win quirks we dont know bout ..dunno.
youve prolly also seen on some recording forums where some daw
software dont like recording sampling rates to change once in a project.
once theyve been set.
anyhoo glad you got it sorted.
i would still run the dpc test at your convenience.
its very usefull and will help youwith your pc's..
_________________________
retired puter engr....powertracks on amd......NICE !
"what is the black art of audio engineering ?"
my silly songs...motagator.com/bmanning
see my tips in the tips section.

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#62214 - 02/26/10 06:25 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: manning1]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
The fact that there have been several reports now that using the X to cancel the window and select ASIO drivers does indeed make an apparently nonworking ASIO driver work points the finger directly at Band in a Box.

Another bit of a clue is that I have never had to resort to that to get ASIO drivers to work when using my M-Audio AP 2496 card. The Okay button just works. However, I stopped trying to use my E-MU 1616M ASIO drivers with BiaB some time ago due to it *sometimes* crashing and now I will have to investigate the X method and see if that works or not.

Let's hope it is a simple bit of code fix and can be implemented in the next program update.


--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

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#62215 - 02/26/10 07:10 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: Mac]
Prado Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 127
@ Manning1 ... I mightly respect your assiduous and methodical approach to problem solving ... that's undoubtedly why your were a successful computer engineer.

But I'm just a pragmatic, 'wanna be' computer musician. I'm happy to help with something I know about ... in small repay for all the fantastic help I've received on one forum or another over the years. Once my problem is solved I'm usually back to the music ... or surfin' the forums for what's interesting.

I'll try to take a look at the dts thingey. I'm always open to bullet proofing my setup.

As Mac says above, let's let BIAB sort it out. I already sent a request to BIAB ... answered by Andrew to acknowledge this thread.

I'm sure there must be some small sub-routine/ macro that runs with the 'OK' button that interferes with some and not others selecting the ASIO drivers.

I'm also eager to hear if 'FrankK's Fix' ... I think i'd rather call it 'Frankie Kay's Fix,' rolls of the tongue a little more sonically ... solves Mac's 1616m issues. I've got one sitting in the closet and I've been thinking about buying the new PCIe card from E-Mu and then selling my Echo Layla (whose current resale price is a pittance of what it's really worth!)

Prado

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#62216 - 02/26/10 07:29 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: Prado]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Unfortunately it my be at least a few days until I can get to testing again...
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

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#62217 - 03/23/10 10:03 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: ASIO Crashes BB constantly [Re: John Conley]
Passion4Blue Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 40
Loc: Michigan, USA
Are you kidding? MME is glitchy and horrible especially as you add more and more real tracks to the music. ASIO runs flawlessly and there are no latency issues. I'll even take WDM drivers over MME, but BIAB does not offer them. They really need to correct these issues.

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