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#64173 - 03/08/10 10:31 AM [Off-Topic] Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws...
GDaddy Offline
Expert

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 897
Loc: Homosassa , Florida
38 States with "Open Carry" Laws, and more to come!?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/08/us/08guns.html?hp

As a great jazz guitar/keyboardist singer-player, I shudder at the thought that the "I Did It My Way" karioke krowd will be walkin' into that bar gig "loaded for bear", with sidearms swingin' from both hips!

Actually, I do have a concealed-carry (Veteran) permit here in Florida, for my Walther PPK-S James Bond Special!
Perhaps I should get ready for "Shootout at Starbucks".
Thank God I'm a Jazz performer, not a folk singer at the local coffee house!


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#64174 - 03/08/10 10:56 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: GDaddy]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Actually, expect the exact opposite to happen.

"An armed society is a civil society."

Bond's PPK (no "S", which was a longer handle workaround for the '68 import ban) as in .32 Auto, or as known in EU, the 7.65mm. Likely yours would be in .380 Auto. Slightly better for defense purposes, but not much. Rely on the exquisite accuracy of the Walthers and good shot placement. And at all times keep in mind the fact that James Bond is a fictional character. I mean, if someone really did have a license to KILL, the 7.65mm popgun is a stupid choice. Ian Fleming knew nothing about firearms and asked an acquaintence who did what were some of the names and models of handguns. He likely chose the Walther PPK as having a "good sounding" read.

Or do like me and if at all possible, RUN AWAY rather than engage. Hide under the table. Actually, I just stay out of the joints. As for other places to go out and about, I live in the Commonwealth of Virginia where open carry is permitted, even in vehicles and as far as the CCW goes is a "shall issue" state. Kinda civil down around here.

.45 ACP or .357 magnum if the wheelgun is called for.

And I stil prefer that DO NOT ENGAGE mantra at all times.


--Mac
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#64175 - 03/08/10 11:22 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: Mac]
Wyndham Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 1019
If there's a way out, find it and book out. If there's no way out defend as best you can, but try not to take a knife to a gun fight and if you are not in a place that has gun,knife,fist, etc fights, chances you not be in one.
I know of a fellow riding a 4 wheeler in Az that came up a hill right into a mountain lion. He meant to reverse and run but by accident he lurched forward, scaring the big cat into running off. You never know what's in the other guy's head. 2 cents and change Wyndham

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#64176 - 03/08/10 11:25 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: Mac]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18920
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Yeah, controversial to some, but most states are open carry. It is illegal to 'conceal' a weapon. Unless you have a permit.

MI is also a 'shall issue' state, meaning they have the burden of a reason to not give the permit. Pretty specific reasons required. However, open carry in a vehicle is illegal here, it has to be in a case, preferably with lock on case or trigger. Probably 'road rage" induced law, or concern for officer safety during traffic stops. This is a silly law, because if an individual is going to use a weapon on an officer, he sure isn't going to worry about breaking the case law..
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#64177 - 03/08/10 12:15 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: Mac]
GDaddy Offline
Expert

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 897
Loc: Homosassa , Florida
MAC
I bought my PPK/S-1 in May of 2003 new as in the engraved series collectors item. I can attest to the accuracy of this gun.
My neighbor was CIA in Nam, back in the boonies...and after a few skirmishes with the Cong he found the Walther a great
addition to his otherwise high caliber arsenal, simply because his "target" would drop, not continue running towards him with
little or no "slow down". Not really comparable to many others you know about, except it is a very dependable weapon to
"bust a cap" up someone's ass with, as they say in the ghetto.

Moon River
Wider than a mile
I'm crossin' you in style
Someday

Dream-maker,
You heart breaker
Where ever you're goin'
I'm goin' your way....

"Ode to my PPK/S"

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#64178 - 03/08/10 12:38 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: GDaddy]
Gary Curran Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/07/02
Posts: 10059
Loc: Poulsbo, Wa 98370
Just recently having purchased a 9mm as my new carry weapon, I looked long and hard at the .380. I found that while no comparison to my .45ACP, the 9mm was head and shoulders above the .380 round. The Taurus PT111 Pro that I purchased seems to be reliable, having one FTF in about 250 rounds so far. The sights weren't aligned properly, but that wasn't too hard to fix. I was thinking a lot about the PPK/S and the new PK380 from Walther, but decided that it would be better if I had just a bit more Ooooomph in the cartridge. My next requirement is to get some personal defense rounds in 9mm, also next to impossible to come by.

The hardest thing for me, in either 9mm or .45ACP, is obtaining ammuntion, and the .380 is no better.

Washington State is also an "Open Carry" state, and also a bastion of Democrat power. In fact, we recently had a 'rally' for open carry, where a large group of people gathered, all carrying in the open. When one passer by asked a police officer why they weren't being arrested, apparently she was shocked and appalled that the law allowed such actions. Even the police were briefed on the law before attending the event.

You can carry in a car, openly, but you must have a CCW to do it. I do. Washington is also a 'Shall Issue' state, and it took me about 45 minutes to get my permit. I was relating that to my boss the other day, and he was incredulous that I could walk in, get my permit, and walk out 45 minutes later, and then go directly and buy a gun. But, that is the way it works here, and we don't have problems.

Of course, I have to wonder about the sanity of some of this, after reading the article. I mean, seriously, who in their right mind would drink Starbucks coffee???

Gary


Edited by Gary Curran (03/08/10 12:45 PM)
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#64179 - 03/08/10 01:21 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: Gary Curran]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
First rule of a gunfight: "Have a gun. Any gun."

The late Col. Cooper wrote that years ago.

GDaddy, from the year of manufacture you must have one of the stainless steel Walthers, produced in Alabama. Fine craftsmanship due to CAD/CAM manufacturing.

My PPK/S is a 1968 built in Germany in polished blue, which was the only finish available back then other than the nickel plated and $$$ engraved presentation PPK/S with the ivory grips. Too gaudy and fancy for my tastes. The little thing is purty and accuracy-wise, it is a tack driver considering its short bbl length and sight picture. Good 2nd ankle holster backup piece, which is what I bought it for way back when being a cycle cop was likely a lot safer than it is today regarding such issues. Good deep cover piece also. In all these years it has been absolutely reliable. In these days of computers, operating systems, softwares, cars that don't start and cars that don't stop when you tell 'em to, it is good to enjoy something that is absolutely reliable in operation.

But, another Cooperism is that we carry a handgun only because it is "handy".

If I knew that I would be getting into a gunfight, I'd bring one of rifles -- and likely hide way back behind something solid, too. <g>


--Mac
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#64180 - 03/08/10 04:17 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: Mac]
Gary Curran Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/07/02
Posts: 10059
Loc: Poulsbo, Wa 98370
IF *I* knew I'd be getting into a gunfight, I'd do my damn well best not to. Find me on the other coast, with a bottle of fine blended Scotch.

I carry because I do not know what the future will bring. I do not look for a confrontation, but I wish to be prepared for whatever may come. Boy Scouts, ya know!

Crime is no longer contained to urban areas, and we all need to stand vigilant.

Gary
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#64181 - 03/08/10 06:02 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: Gary Curran]
Muzic Trax Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4956
Loc: California
A permit means nothing to most people who carry a weapon here. I feel sorry for the blokes who ever try to invade us. They best not try the "door-2-door" approach either, we have more weapons and ammo in homes then the miltary combined. It is the police who are under armed here, lol. Look at the LA Bank Robbery-Shootout video. There were only two of those guys and the police had to go to the local gun shop to "borrow" some firepower.

I couldn't imagine what a civil war would be like these days, scary.

I have seen old military bunkers full of weapons taken off the streets to be destroyed, and that was from a single county.

When it comes to personal safety, people do NOT mess around here. LOL

Trax

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#64182 - 03/08/10 06:33 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: Muzic Trax]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:

A permit means nothing to most people who carry a weapon here.




Please, no anecdotal information. Besides that, anyone carrying without the license is already committing a crime.

Quote:

I feel sorry for the blokes who ever try to invade us. They best not try the "door-2-door" approach either, we have more weapons and ammo in homes then the miltary combined. It is the police who are under armed here, lol. Look at the LA Bank Robbery-Shootout video. There were only two of those guys and the police had to go to the local gun shop to "borrow" some firepower.




That is a *dated* example. Since that time, LA law enforcement has indeed done much to increase their aresenals, many citing that incident in order to justify the expenditures and training.

Quote:

I couldn't imagine what a civil war would be like these days, scary.




Likely about the same as the only one we've had. Don't think that the lack of semi-automatic or fully-automatic firearms made the Civil War more "civil". The muskets of the era were firing .5 to .6 inch diameter lead mini ball ammo.

Quote:

I have seen old military bunkers full of weapons taken off the streets to be destroyed, and that was from a single county.

When it comes to personal safety, people do NOT mess around here. LOL

Trax




I doubt if the "old military bunkers full of weapons taken off the streets" were full of weapons owned by the law-abiding gun owners.

Well, they might have been, we are, after all, talking about The People's Republik of California...

AS ye vote, so shall ye receive.


--Mac
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#64183 - 03/08/10 08:53 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: Mac]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
I, in some sort of mature moment refuse to involve myself in this thread.

Most of you know what I think, but I'm starting to re-think my proposed trip south in a few weeks. I'm afraid all I need to do is look the wrong way at some moron and I'm gone. Maybe I'll go to Montreal instead of SC.
-
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#64184 - 03/08/10 09:28 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: John Conley]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Fine with me, John.
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#64185 - 03/08/10 09:35 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: John Conley]
Edward Buckley Offline
Expert

Registered: 03/27/06
Posts: 812
Loc: Guadalajara, Mexico
Down here it's open season on everyone........I just found our yesterday that my Wife's 20 year old cousin in Mexico City was shot in the stomach for refusing to give up his book bag. As I'm writing this post, he clings to life in a poor dirty hospital with very little chance of survival.

Today we learned that my Wife's ex boyfriend, a doctor here in Acapulco, was kidnapped and then shot.

People are getting shot here for cutting someone off in Traffic, or looking the wrong way while being passed by a car.
This morning, the house of the Acapulco Chief of Police was raided by Narcotrafficers, they killed his daughter since he wasn't home.

A lot of people want to ban or control arms. However, they are missing the point. A gun is just a tool, like a hammer or fork. It can be used to hit a cardboard target. Or, it can be used to kill. Simple choice.........Drive drunk and your car becomes a weapon just as dangerous as a gun. When I was growing up in the late 1960's, you almost never heard of someone getting shot. Now it's common.

I see it as an education issue. If you grew up with responsible parents, who spent the time to show you how dangerous a gun can be, the importance of NEVER pointing it at someone unless you intended to shoot. To clean it, to shoot it and store it with responsibility. I had that priviledge thanks to my father. The problem now is that you have millions of kids and young adults who never had anyone in their lives who took the time to school them. And now we have open warfare in the streets. The drug trade here just makes it easier to get a gun. BTW>There are no registered gun owners here, because people aren't permitted to own them by law. But since almost everyone discards the law, many people have multiple handguns and in many cases machine guns. AK 47s are very plentiful here, so is Tequila. Put the two together and you have a typical Saturday night here...........sad.
Ed

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#64186 - 03/08/10 11:16 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: John Conley]
bobcflatpicker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3355
Loc: WV, USA
John,

Quote:

Most of you know what I think, but I'm starting to re-think my proposed trip south in a few weeks. I'm afraid all I need to do is look the wrong way at some moron and I'm gone. Maybe I'll go to Montreal instead of SC.




Montreal sounds like a great place for you to visit.

SC is actually a great place to visit. Even non-residents can carry a loaded handgun in their console, carry it into their hotel room, and back out to the car.

I live in an open carry state. You can get a conceal and carry permit if you don’t have a felony record. I’ve had my C&C permit for years. We are one of the most “well armed” states in the country per capita. We are also one of the safest states in the country. Almost all of the gun crimes are performed by drug dealers killing each other. Not the responsible gun owners.

The criminals also know almost everyone is armed………….therefore they leave most of the citizens alone.

Bob
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#64187 - 03/09/10 04:11 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: bobcflatpicker]
mglinert Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 938
Loc: France, but I'm an ex-pat Brit
Just to give you a UK perspective on this thread (OK I realise its my own view but my guess is that it represents mainstream opinion).
Totally insane.
Normal, respected and respectable law-abiding citizens discussing gun types and debating the right to bear arms?!
In the UK we look twice when we see a policeman carrying a gun, it's that unusual.
However did you get yourselves into such a situation?
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#64188 - 03/09/10 05:26 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: Mac]
JBlatz Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 222
Quote:

Likely about the same as the only one we've had. Don't think that the lack of semi-automatic or fully-automatic firearms made the Civil War more "civil". The muskets of the era were firing .5 to .6 inch diameter lead mini ball ammo.
--Mac




At least the field doctors today would be armed with more tools than a favorite handsaw.
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#64189 - 03/09/10 05:40 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: mglinert]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Quote:

Just to give you a UK perspective on this thread (OK I realise its my own view but my guess is that it represents mainstream opinion).
Totally insane.
Normal, respected and respectable law-abiding citizens discussing gun types and debating the right to bear arms?!
In the UK we look twice when we see a policeman carrying a gun, it's that unusual.
However did you get yourselves into such a situation?




Bull.

I read your news from over there daily.

You've got a serious violent crime problem also.

Everything from knives, which your polis have indeed tried to ban now as well, to cricket bats to guns, which are still available there, but only to the criminals due to the laws removing them from the hands of the law-abiding, who are now at the mercy of the criminals because of that.

It is not the implement, it is all about whether or not people choose to be peaceful and law abiding or not.

Every nation has crime problems in this age.

UK has its share of violence, teen gang violence, terrorism, domestic violence, criminal activity, etc. etc. etc.

Don't fall for the simple-minded game of pointing the finger at other countries like that.

This is a problem for all of decent humanity wherever you live in this world, regardless of race, creed, color, nationality, etc.


--Mac
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#64190 - 03/09/10 06:57 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: Mac]
tributeman Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 589
Loc: uk
Quote:

Quote:

Just to give you a UK perspective on this thread (OK I realise its my own view but my guess is that it represents mainstream opinion).
Totally insane.
Normal, respected and respectable law-abiding citizens discussing gun types and debating the right to bear arms?!
In the UK we look twice when we see a policeman carrying a gun, it's that unusual.
However did you get yourselves into such a situation?




Bull.

I read your news from over there daily.

You've got a serious violent crime problem also.

Everything from knives, which your polis have indeed tried to ban now as well, to cricket bats to guns, which are still available there, but only to the criminals due to the laws removing them from the hands of the law-abiding, who are now at the mercy of the criminals because of that.

It is not the implement, it is all about whether or not people choose to be peaceful and law abiding or not.

Every nation has crime problems in this age.

UK has its share of violence, teen gang violence, terrorism, domestic violence, criminal activity, etc. etc. etc.

Don't fall for the simple-minded game of pointing the finger at other countries like that.

This is a problem for all of decent humanity wherever you live in this world, regardless of race, creed, color, nationality, etc.


--Mac [/quote

What you say is true Mac but that is nothing to do with the civilian population not carrying weapons but the very liberal justice system we have here.A law came out saying anyone caught with a gun would get a minimum of 5 years in prison hardly anyone has been given this sentence.Knife crime again has increased but all the efforts about cracking down on it with jail is a joke.The UK and the US are plagued with violent people and I can understand why decent American citizens want to protect themselves but the only way this can be achieved by a very large percentage is an all out assault by the military against the gangs and drug cartels (they have hardened experience now serving in Iraq and Afghanistan to sort out a lot of these problems ) and a maximum penalty of at least a life sentence in prison without parole in every sate in your country.Of course to get 100% protection is changing the "hearts" of these criminals which I as a Christian feel can only be achieved in them putting their faith in Christ.Cheers Frankie
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#64191 - 03/09/10 07:12 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: tributeman]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
I was researching a route south, and noted that a lot of states don't allow people from other states to carry their guns at all. I think it was WV. They say ok if you are from these 8 states or something, but otherwise what to you do? Then some have the thing locked in a box, the ammo somewhere else?

So you are being 'stuck up' and you ask for time to unlock the gun and load it?

Just today they said Little Wayne (whoever that is) is going to jail for a year for having a loaded handgun on his tour bus.

And those NBA guys who drew on each other both are going to jail? Suspended?

Obviously some of you have more amendments that the others, which I find odd.

It's very straightforward here. You have your handgun in a locked case in your house, the ammo elsewhere, locked. You call the police, say you are going to the range, drive there without stopping, shoot, and go home.

I share the range with those guys when I sight in the rifles once a year.

I was having a beverage with a cop friend of mine who worked in NYC for a few weeks on a work exchange. He said we have 60,000 cops in all of Canada, and NYC has almost 40,000, add in the other police forces and the state troopers, they have more cops in one state than we have in the whole country. Now that's odd.

I just a leery of showing up somewhere looking affluent and with out of state plates and being a Target. Back to the pants with the hidden pockets, the fake wallet? I actually have them on now, Tilley pants, best thing since sliced bread. Inside passport pocket, velcro on the back pockets, extra pockets, and wash them in the sink at the end of day and hang them up, dry in 4 hours and wear them the next day.
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#64192 - 03/09/10 08:28 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Lock and Load with Open Carry Laws... [Re: mglinert]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18920
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Quote:

Just to give you a UK perspective on this thread (OK I realise its my own view but my guess is that it represents mainstream opinion).
Totally insane.
Normal, respected and respectable law-abiding citizens discussing gun types and debating the right to bear arms?!
In the UK we look twice when we see a policeman carrying a gun, it's that unusual.
However did you get yourselves into such a situation?




*shakes head*

decides not to engage
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