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This topic is not exactly about music, unless you're like me and feel that the sound of a 1911A1 Colt performing it's .45 caliber tune is music to your ears.
Here in Texas we can legally carry a handgun in our vehicle. There have been no wild shootouts on the roads and byways, contrary to the 'nanny state' advocates, who invariably show a disdain for the common folk.
Note that a tyranical government first attempts to control the flow of news and information, and then always disarms the public. An informed and armed public is highly unlikely to fall victim to tyrants and dictators. Restricting the availability of firearms to the public only helps the criminals, not the law abiding citizens.
The mayor of Nagasaki, Japan was gunned down in a public place by a thug armed with a handgun. Handguns are essentially banned in Japan, which is an island nation with a homogenious population. A firearms ban only affects the law-abiding folks, and has absolutely no effect on the criminals. Note also that a while back a man went on a killing spree in Japan, murdering 7 people -- with a knife.
All of the amendments in the Bill of Rights are there for a reason, and the right to keep and bear arms is number 2 on that list.
I repect those who don't like firearms and don't own them, or who feel they have no need for them. That's fine. However, please do not inflict your own views on me. And don't break into my home or threaten my family unless you desire making an aquaintance with a load of 00 buck, or a Remington brass bonded Golden Saber .45 +P hollowpoint.
Fire, the wheel, and the I IV V -- foundations of civilization.
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Quote:
Just to give you a UK perspective on this thread (OK I realise its my own view but my guess is that it represents mainstream opinion).
Totally insane.
Normal, respected and respectable law-abiding citizens discussing gun types and debating the right to bear arms?!
In the UK we look twice when we see a policeman carrying a gun, it's that unusual.
However did you get yourselves into such a situation?
I could ask the same question. A small quote from the article linked below-
"Nearly five centuries of growing civility ended in 1954. Violent crime has been climbing ever since. Last December, London's Evening Standard reported that armed crime, with banned handguns the weapon of choice, was "rocketing." In the two years following the 1997 handgun ban, the use of handguns in crime rose by 40 percent, and the upward trend has continued. From April to November 2001, the number of people robbed at gunpoint in London rose 53 percent.
Gun crime is just part of an increasingly lawless environment. From 1991 to 1995, crimes against the person in England's inner cities increased 91 percent. And in the four years from 1997 to 2001, the rate of violent crime more than doubled. Your chances of being mugged in London are now six times greater than in New York. England's rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are far higher than America's, and 53 percent of English burglaries occur while occupants are at home, compared with 13 percent in the U.S., where burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners.."
http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome
decided to engage afterall, just for the truth of it
Yes gun murders went down, ..violent crime; not so much. We're watching and learning from you.
Make your sound your own!
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I understand that being able to own and carry guns means a lot to a large number of US citizens (and citizens of other countries where gun ownership is common). Since I don't have the insights in the reasons why these people want to own guns or feel the need to, I cannot be pro or con gun laws. So I remain neutral in this  Having said that: I wondered if one is required to do some kind of exam or skill proof to get a gun permit. Do you have to keep your skills up to standard? Or can you get a permit, buy a gun and that's it? Here one can get a permit and buy a gun if one is a member of a shooting club for at least one year. Then in order to keep the permit valid one has to visit the firing range and shoot the weapon at least 18 times a year. Guns may be stored at home, but in a locker. Ammo needs to be stored separate from the gun. My personal view: guns and chainsaws are dang dangerous when handled by people who don't know one end from the other.
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In order to buy a gun we have to go to 3 days of classes. You learn how each gun works, take it apart, pick it up, check it, use the safety, etc. They have about 40 guns on a table, for both the long and short gun programs. You have to climb a fence (or if disabled unload and reload), you have to demonstrate skill with shotguns and rifles, handguns, etc. You need a criminal background check and you get a photo ID about 3 weeks after the course. Your spouse if you have one has to sign, either way, be it he or she. I lost my paperwork so I retook the course last year. 1/2 women. I was the only one got 100 percent right through. They show you guns people shot after sticking the barrel in the snow, malfunctioned guns, etc. If you ever point the gun at anyone during the last day of class no gun licence, and wait a year before trying again.
Contrary to popular opinion you can legally buy and own a handgun.
It is estimated that there are 50,000 illegal handguns in Canada, I read the number in NYC alone is 700,000 illegal handguns.
The percentage of the population having a long gun is virtually the same in both countries.
It's a cultural thing. Like the Brits, our police never carried guns until the late 60s.
Yesterday about 50 miles north of here some 70 yr. old nutjob was stopped by a Cop with a 9mm. The guy dove for the ditch and took cover, killed the cop with a rifle before 2 others arrived a wounded him. Being armed and having a vest did not save the cop. Head shot. But that's the only shooting around here in the last 5 years or so. 10 years ago a bunch of bikers got into it killing 2. I think they should have an annual shoot at a farm for them. LOL.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Here the US is a collection of states. That gets forgotten by many outside the US.
The laws on obtaining a gun vary from state to state. There are federal laws (no gun if you have a felony record, etc.) but most control is at the state level.
Make your sound your own!
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But that is the interesting question. So if you leave one state and enter another and you don't abide by their law you go to jail? It was OK in Texas but in Washington DC it's not? Seems confusing.
John Conley
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Quote:
Violent crime has been climbing ever since.
No it hasn't, Bob.
Not according to UK Government (Home Office) stats , anyway
The comments after this article make interesting reading too but don’t (as I do!) only read the comments which support your own views
What has happened is that the influence of various media (notably films/TV/the press and in particularly the Daily Mail...) has greatly heightened and distorted people's fear of violent crime.
The 'perception gap' between this fear and reality is well documented.
You have a far, far greater chance of getting hit by a motorised vehicle while walking along the pavement, but you can’t sell many tabloids with those kind of stories.
For the vast majority of people, situations in which guns may have a useful defensive purpose do not occur often enough to justify bearing arms. And when they do, the likelihood of the weapon being in the right place at the right time and in the hands of the potential victim and not the assailant is so remote as to justify my original comment on law-abiding citizens’ wishing to own lethal weapons. Insane.
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I just hope we can agree to disagree on gun control.
If it works there; great! More power to you.
Very cool.
However, please don't call us insane because we disagree.
Our laws are based on long held beliefs in our constitution, etc and we happen to think there is good reason for it.
I only pointed out statistics I have seen, and some of those numbers quoted in the article are from British sources, I at least made sure of that. Not arguing your take on it, just sayin, it 'looks' like it hasn't been so successful all things considered. It appears to me individual safety was sacrificed for the notion of public safety, which is a sticky road. Saying that an individual owning a firearm won't know how to use it in the event it is needed is not a good argument, it has been tried here already (gun control has been a topic here for many years).
I personally like having the right to defend my family, myself and my property. Many here do.
Like I said, we are watching over there, and taking notes. Maybe what is shown here is biased, can't say.. so I kind of take it with a grain of salt. However it must be considered that we would be writing over a basic part of our constituion. Not sure if yours provided for that right to begin with. It would be taking away a basic right we have gotten used to.
Last edited by rharv; 03/09/10 09:50 AM.
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This issue is not cannot be resolved here. The point to understand is that there are huge variations in opinion, and that they have validity in their own right.
Many times I left Mexico looking poor. They seemed to so often find someone, perhaps it was the fancy watch, but he got taken off the plane. Many times we delayed, and the guy came back a few hundred light. Or never got on the plane at all. I was well coached. Not that I own a rolex.
There are many misconceptions. The British tabloid press called the Olympics in Vancouver a disaster, we were murderers, etc.
Somehow no one pointed out that in a previous games a luger and a skier died in training just before they opened.
Those in other countries looking at the US would do well to understand the lobbies and their power. To me, until someone makes that ultimate change in policy, no one will hear the truth. How much money does the health care lobby and the gun lobby or the coal lobby pour into the pockets of politicians and their friends.
I'm a 'right' wing Canadian. Which means far left to some Americans.
I am a firm believer that you abide by the laws of the place you make your home, and that you act as a good citizen. I reserve my right to be critical of our policy makers, and to push for what I believe in as a part of my core values.
So does anyone else, as long as it doesn't harm me. I'd like to see the flow of illegal firearms coming north stop. The dealers can knife each other, rather that every year in Toronto some innocent by stander being hit with 9mm ammo. Hard to hit a bystander with a knife.
If you want to drop by my place, the door is never locked, I don't believe in locks or security systems. If I moved to the US I guess I'd be spending money. I don't, however put out a flat panel tv box on the curb, or leave a computer visible from the patio doors. But I've never seen anyone I don't know on my property, unless you count the JW's and such, who see the sign, NO RELIGION IS DISCUSSED HERE.
Live and Let Die.
And I'm joining the first church where everyone lives to be over 100. Until then I walk quietly in the woods and admire what was created.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
I just hope we can agree to disagree on gun control.
Works for me, Bob. This is ultimately a cultural difference arising from a right which was enshrined in an amendment to the US constitution more than 200 years ago. I do understand why it is therefore seen as a fundamental right by so many US citizens.
Sorry for any offence inadvertently caused.
I am, of course, no expert in this field but my intuitive reasoning goes like this:
The more guns there are, the more guns are likely to fall into the wrong hands.
The individual (and licensed) private gun owner may feel safer personally, but, as a whole, society becomes more dangerous.
I agree fully with Mac that the problem is the intention and not the tool, but the particular characteristics of firearms (attack over longer distances, multiple assault possibilities…) make them different in nature from knives, cricket and baseball bats and the rest. This is indeed why gun owners like to own them.
I guess it would be good to hear from the non-US/non-UK “neutrals” on this one.
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The only point I would in response to your post is where you said
"The more guns there are, the more guns are likely to fall into the wrong hands"
If guns are outlawed there will be a disproportionate amount of guns in the wrong hands.
The law abiding citizens (good citizens) will be at an extreme disadvantage.
Also, take into account the size of this country. There are millions here that will not get emergency response within half an hour when they do call the police. When you live 'in the country' (rural areas) there isn't much defense except what is in the home. There would be a lot of 'sitting ducks' waiting to be wronged. There are cultural AND physical differences to take into consideration.
I prefer to live in peace, but also know that may not always be an option. Having been confronted with the situation previously I will be on the pro-gun side for quite a while. It's not an idyllic way of life, but one I happily live with for the time being.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Like the old saying; "If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns"
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Well, the United States is still a Federal Republic, which means that we don't have a national police force, as some countries do. Of course we have the FBI, BATF, DEA, etc. which have nation-wide jurisdiction where the US national interests are concerned. The various States have their own set of laws concerning many areas, and the ownership and possession of firearms is one of those areas. Note, however, that with the reccent SCOTUS decision on the 2nd amendment, these various state laws will be and are being challenged, as Federal law does trump State law in almost all instances.
If the Constitution grants 'the people' of the United States a right, no State or Federal requirement can be imposed which would unduly limit that right, or which would charge a fee for that right. You cannot charge people a 'poll tax' for example, as voting is a protected right. Likewise, you cannot force a citizen to pay for the right to possess a firearm. Contrary to what people believe, there is no centralized database of gun owners in the Unites States.
Driving a vehicle on the public roads, and hunting are examples of privileges for which charges can be levied, but neither the States nor the Federal government can charge for any right under the US Constitution. A citizen in good standing cannot be charged a fee to own a legal firearm. Other fees may apply, like the current pivilege of carrying a concealed weapon, but some of these are now in doubt due to the Courts recent findings.
Let me note that I have homeowner's insurance, even though it is very unlikely that my house will be clobbered by a fire or tornado or robbers. Likewise, I have auto insurance even though I don't anticipate being in an accident, etc. I have many other insurance policies also [very expensive, BTW]. I have various firearms even though I don't anticipate me or my family being attacked, or our own government trashing the Constitution, etc. It's always better to be safe than sorry. There are some very bad people in the world who are not in jail [yet] so I take my responsibility to protect my family, my Country, and my property seriously enough to own firearms. I hope I never have to use those weapons in anger or in deadly defence, but they are there if the situation warrants.
Aside from that, I admire a fine piece of machinery, as there is great beauty in functional form, and I do like to shoot.
Fire, the wheel, and the I IV V -- foundations of civilization.
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I haven’t said a whole lot in this thread because I think we all pretty much know who is going to be on the pro & con side, and none of us are going to change anyone else’s mind.
I just think it’s worthy of note that right after freedom of speech, the very next thing that came to mind was to make sure that government couldn’t deny people the right to bear arms.
It seemed pretty important to the founders to write it in 1791. It’s pretty important to me also and that right “shall not be infringed”.
And for those of you who have been supporting that basic right in this thread, you all have been doing such a great job of speaking out, I didn't think you needed any help from me. That's the reason for my sparse comments.
Bob
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Quote:
Actually, expect the exact opposite to happen.
"An armed society is a civil society."
Actually the correct quote is "An armed society is a polite society." from my single favorite author of all time, Robert A. Heinlein. Like so many other things, maybe someone else said it before him but he certainly made that phrase into a mantra and it has been debated to death in every forum imaginable.
After years of soul searching I finally came down on not having guns in the house because of the risk of family members who are not well trained and experienced like I am having a monumentally tragic accident. If my daughter happened to kill herself with a gun I had in the house, I probably would go right behind her. Yeah, I know safety protocols and all that but we all know stuff happens and with a gun it only takes one time.
Wikipedia
Bob
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OK Let's not reinvent the wheel here. I was frankly relatively unaware of the arguments (other than what I had seen in the MIchael Moore film), as to us, guns are things you either see on the tv or use to start 100m races. To hear a bunch of guys I know, like and respect discuss which lethal weapon they like to hold just sounded so bizarrze that I felt compelled to comment. I didn't realise that guns could be found in such a high proportion of US households. I have now looked through the arguments on both sides The difference in resources between the 2 sides is, however worth quoting... * The National Rifle Association is the largest gun rights lobbying organization in the United States. From 1997 through 1998, their political action committee gave $1,330,111 to Republicans and $285,700 to Democrats. (10) * Handgun Control, Inc. is the largest gun control lobbying organization in the United States. From 1997 through 1998, their political action committee gave $136,892 to Democrats and $9,500 to Republicans That's a factor of 11 to 1, so even if the arguments of the pro-group are not as strong, one would expect this lobby to dominate, as indeed it does. ...but this debate is, of course, best continued elsewhere. ...and now back to the music!
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mglinert, In looking at those numbers, one thing is missing. While there may be a "glaring" difference in contributions to the 2 parties, if you checked the households of the representatives and senators in the US to see who actually owned guns, the numbers would be roughly equal. One party in the US has a "do as I say, not as I do" policy. I'll leave it to you to figure out which party it is. Bob
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Wow...I'm extremely happy I started this thread...but...
Hey, Frank....do "I did it my way" again, will ya...
and then, maybe...
"Skyrockets in flight; Afternoon's Delite!"
Now, Jose, let's hear you do YOUR rendition of "My Way"...but...
It bettah be good!!
Yamaha...Motif ES-8, Motif Rack, CS6X
Korg...Karma,Triton Classic, PA-80, M-1+
AkaiSampler-S5000, Roland.. X5080 Rack/G-1000 Arranger
Various Guitars/Basses Amps Pedals Rec.Equip.
Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3
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So, in the end, we differ.
But so do 'you'.
Why did this Wayne guy in NY have a tour bus and get arrested and sent to jail for a year for having a handgun?
I thought all of you could strap on a holster carry around a gun, and be Dog the Bounty Hunter?
We have none of those bounty hunters, nor bail bondsmen. But we've got a whack of maple surpple and long guns. I prolly have way more than any of you...long guns that is.
I'd just like an explanation as to how you get arrested for having you constitutional right in you vehicle?
Just a simple answer is good enough.
But a whole year in jail for some 'famous' guy I never heard of with a gun on a tour bus...well. Here with the same gun on his tour bus we'd give him a slap on the wrist...a fine..maybe $500 bucks. And a thing where he can't have a gun for 10 years. And about 2 years probation.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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John, Quote:
Why did this Wayne guy in NY have a tour bus and get arrested and sent to jail for a year for having a handgun?
I’m not familiar with the case, but NY has some really stupid laws.
Every state is different, at least until the US Supreme Court rules on a case it is dealing with now.
Quote:
I thought all of you could strap on a holster carry around a gun, and be Dog the Bounty Hunter?
Dog the Bounty Hunter can only carry a “paint gun”, since he is a convicted felon.
Quote:
I'd just like an explanation as to how you get arrested for having you constitutional right in you vehicle?
All states are different. Simple enough for you John? It’s called states rights. But they can’t over rule Federal law. Or the constitution and the ammendments. Ever so often, a state tries to over step it's bounds.
That’s why there is a case currently before the Supreme Court. Hope this clears it up for you.
Bob
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"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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Forums66
Topics81,576
Posts734,572
Members38,494
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Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
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