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I have been a” Biaber” since 1996 and by and large have supported the product by buying the annual upgrades.(not that I always have needed them)
Last October I upgraded to an Audiophile External HD 1Gig ( A Noisy one at that!!!) for $199
So that gave me Biab 2009.5; Real Drums up to and including 26; Soloist up to and including 20; Real Tracks up to and including 66; Styles up to and including 77.

So now for me to upgrade to the latest files 2010.5 plus Real Drums 27,28,29 and Real Band files 67-101 that cheapest Biab can do is $299.

I only want probably about 5% to 10% of that number of files

So should the price be more like $30-$50??

I think your update prices are getting way too expensive why not let us download the required files via a torrent program .I’ll still pay after all!!

I realise that since real tracks/drums have come one the scene the files are way larger, but then I’m thinking that the technology will/has developed smaller formats that still retain the quality of the sound so say using some alternate like Kontakt is looking more feasible. What do you guys and girls think?

I still think is a great product and has come a long way since I started using it and i'm sure there are a heck of a lot more users using it out there than there were in 1996!!

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About the noisy hard disk enclosure, I just took the drive out and mounted it as an internal SATA drive. The drive itself is quiet. Performance is better, too, than USB allows.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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I understand how you feel, but I can also understand PG Music having to raise the cost of things. In the pre - Real days, the program was the expense for them. They paid programmers and/or did it themselves, the computer provided the sounds. Real Tracks and Drums added the cost of paying the musicians to lay down all of the tracks, the equipment to record them, the studio to record them in, and who knows what else. So even though I wish it was still the old $59 or so upgrades, what I am getting for the current cost is well worth it. Plus I get a small USB hard drive. I now have 4 of them (I think). I'm not using the Audiophile version, so I don't spend as much as you would need to keep current with BIAB, but I guess you get what you pay for and pay for what you get. I hope it works out for you.
Good luck.

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Quote:


So now for me to upgrade to the latest files 2010.5 plus Real Drums 27,28,29 and Real Band files 67-101 that cheapest Biab can do is $299.

I’m thinking that the technology will/has developed smaller formats that still retain the quality of the sound so say using some alternate like Kontakt is looking more feasible. What do you guys and girls think?





I've frankly been amazed that PG music has been able to offer the quality product that they do and not charge much more than they do so you aren't going to hear me whining about the price. I have a lot of money invested in music software and in a given year most other software companies bleed me for much more and give me much less than PG music does.

The audiophile version was something that they put out at user request because some wanted an uncompressed format. Perhaps you are simply invested in the wrong version of BIAB. If you are looking for something that can be downloaded, I think the majority of users find the wma quite acceptable.


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Yep Thats a great idea

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Hi All,
Just wanted to say that personally I reckon Biab is great value compared with most other software on the market, music or otherwise when you consider the superb and quick support from the PG guys and the forum along with free updates. The work that must go into realtracks and the programming must be very expensive and time consuming to give us such a great end product, hats off to everyone at PG.
The only thing I find that bumps the price up is being in the UK is the duty/custom charges for a USB to be delivered so I try to stick to d/l where possible and just do a major upgrade when the offers are on.
Considering the amount of use and enjoyment I get from biab working the cost over a year it really is peanuts a week compared to what I have to spend on other things, [not that I want them to put the prices up by the way -smile].
I find no problem with the wma file quality.
Regards Jeff

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I can understand why the price is rising, but I don't understand why I have to pay almost the same if I order DVDs or if I only down load files.
I remember once there was a greater difference.


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I used to pay 35 cents for a hamburger, the same for a milk shake and the same for fries now a $10 bill is shot all to heck doing the same job. Same food same me( just a lot older) just that the monies's not worth what it was or ever was.
I know we gotta book in 2 dates at Carnegie Hall to do what we did a few years ago, but that's the life of us Super Papa Rockers;......on the porch.
With all this $$$$ pain, where's all the gain.
All in all there's still not a better bang for the music bucks.
Wyndham

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Quote:

I have a lot of money invested in music software and in a given year most other software companies bleed me for much more and give me much less than PG music does.




i second that emotion....

it can be a lot of cash to buy the realtrack updates. if, say you only want to play jazz it seems wrong that you must buy the country or it not a deal.

its all fabulous stuff though.......


i am hoping that pg will licence Real track technology to others

good stuff..


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It will eventually reach the stage I think when people will decide to upgrade less often, in other words they will have so many realtracks that they will decide enough is enough for the kind of music they produce.

Maybe then PG will turn its attention to the midi styles 90% I feel that are so outdated that its a pain to listen to them.

Don't get me wrong I really love band in a box my favourite music programe and realtracks are the current flavour of the month but this won't last I think.

just my views.

Musiclover


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My music https://www.youtube.com/user/donegalprideofall

Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2024, Cubase 13, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use smile
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I think RealTracks have revolutionized this product. It will most certainly last, unless people suddenly hate real musicians playing real instruments. There are plenty of things that haven't even been done yet, so they're just getting started...

Personally, I like having the choice of MIDI and RTs. MIDI does offer some freedom to create what you want and they can sound really good. Look at Samplemodeling's jazz instruments. They sound outstanding and you can create the solo that you hear in your head. But good luck with that - you'd better have plenty of time to work and lots of MIDI keyboard talent. It will take some work.

RealTracks, on the other hand, are instantly natural and authentic. Sure you're stuck with the sound and solo output, but if you don't like it, generate it again or try a different RT. If that doesn't work, then MIDI VSTis are still an option. There are quality choices now.

As for the price, there have been times when I didn't have the cash, so I totally understand. But paying real studio musicians is not cheap, so that's the reality. For a price comparison, take a look at loop sets sold by other companies. They are usually pretty close and, from my experience, not easier to use at all. PG Music has taken music making ease to a whole new level, so it's a much better deal. I recommend saving your money and buying the upgrades when you can. Besides, it's always better to support the true good guys in the business world.

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music lover...my feeling is the midi files are really good for what they are. you just cant get the slurs, the varience in attack, embrouchure, the guitar feedback, the general clatter that brings authenticity out of this technology, though it has its [limited] place.

imo

Zero


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Just a few things:

If all you want is jazz tracks, you can buy just the jazz track sets. I've done it.

Some of us may reach a style saturation point, including me, but I'm not there yet.

I also believe that real tracks are here to stay. I have continually bought most of the new RTs that have come out even though I rarely use any. I want to explore them though.

I believe that BIAB/RB is a real value.....For those of us who use it a lot. If you only use it once a month or less frequently, I can see how you might feel that the upgrades are not worth it.

FWIW


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I would agree, however, that paying $299 for a mid-year update is way out of line. My rule of thumb would be to charge half the price of the normal December annual upgrade for the mid-year one which should be offered as a patch and not a full vrsion release and scale down how many new features and real tracks are offered at mid-year. I think that would keep the interest and affordabilty for both the annual and the mid-year releases for the BIAB aficionados.


Cz...
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If you want to keep up with all the new stuff offered, it sure would get expensive. It's up to the person how much they want.

I thought long and hard about what package to buy, having never experienced this software other than many years ago- a mere shell of what it is now. All I had to go on was the demos. I finally went with the ultra package ONLY because I picked it up on ebay at an amazing price. 2010 ultra at 230 bucks? Oh yea, I was in!

Now having had it and used it all for a while, I like it all a lot but I can't help thinking I would have been disappointed buying at full price. I think everything included is awesome and biab is great. But RB has a LONG way to go and for me, it remains glitchy and clunky- including the midi side. But I am pleased to se how well the software is constantly supported. But as prices add up, I would hope they put out quality, bug free [as much as possible] updates and bring realband up to speed. It should be, and must be imo, biabs perfect mate. At the moment, it's a challenge. But the potential is huge.

Long and short, all of pg's software is only as expensive as you make it.

Dan

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Quote:

music lover...my feeling is the midi files are really good for what they are. you just cant get the slurs, the varience in attack, embrouchure, the guitar feedback, the general clatter that brings authenticity out of this technology, though it has its [limited] place.

imo

Zero




You can get these nuances with midi IF you have good sound sources. But with good sound sources comes a price, usually a hefty price. If you’re using just GM sound sources I will generally agree with you.

So if you are using BiaB with a GM sound source, especially an inexpensive GM sound source, the RT’s and RD’s are the way to go.

For the record I use more midi than RT’s and RD’s. But I don’t put down either. Both are tools to be used by the individual.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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If you know your way around the software the Megapak gives all the Rds, RTs, & styles. It ends up being less then a $250 a year investment. If your making any money with the program that's a drop in the bucket. If it's a hobby it's a cheap price to pay for the enjoyment received.
As far as RB Dan you just aren't experienced enough to make that judgement. I've done well over 200 top of the line tunes all RTs and do not experience any glitches at all. Ask my wife. I use the program at least 6 hrs EVERY day either doing new songs or rehearsing my sets.


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Mario I do have good sound sources, eg, VSL, E.West Symphonic orchestra platimium. the strativari virtual violin, gpo, halion, kontakt and a lot more - take even the best virtual instruments and the articulations are limited.


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Silvertones-

I agree, I don't have a lot of experience with RB. What I do have experience with is enough daws to be able to confidently say- RB has a LONG way to go before I can take it seriously. It's not that you can't get great work done. I'm sure your body of work is marvelous. I'm getting some great work done myself with it at the moment. But it's been pulling teeth almost every step of the way. I'm being patient, reading the manual, and forgiving many, many needed things that aren't there yet because I think RB is in it's infancy and will get there over time. So I'm dealing. But quality work can be done, I am seeing. But make no mistake, RB is clunky compared to a mature daw. And it's been glitchy for me. Clunky I can forgive. It may always be clunky. It may never become what other daws are, nor may they want it to. That's fine- you take it or leave it. Glitchy is a different story and just so you know, I don't mean bash RB. ALL software can be glitchy. RB hasn't always performed some operations for me glitch free. If it weren't for some other folks here and me, we may not have gotten 2010.5 build 2 as soon as we did. I'd like to see all software work without a hitch all the time. It's just not reality. But if it been perfect sailing for you, thanks wonderful. Keep on keepin on.

I have a ton of high hopes for RB. PG has Biab nailed down solid as a rock, ime. RB is the perfect mate and if they're really gonna pull in the serious daw mixing crowd, they're gonna have to step up the features in a large way. SO much potential. Here's to hoping.

Dan

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Dan,

I find the same as you. RB is clunky and glitchy at times. Its good in what it does will generate the realtracks and good at converting everything to wave. But then for me it's a case of importing into cubase, where editing such as using the scissors tool and muting audio events is easy to do , not so in RB.

Joe

Last edited by joemardo1; 07/18/10 02:22 AM.

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Hey Dan & Joe,
I do use this stuff a lot maybe a couple of factors come in to play:
1. I don't use the program to create recordings. I use it for live
2. There may be an age factor. Don't know. I'm 60 and grew up with tape machines. Cut,copy, paste was not something you did much of as it was a tedious physical process so I still don't do much of that. I use RB more like a real sophisticated tape machine & console. I lay down tracks, add effects & mix.


John
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What isn't getting too expensive these days! PG Music does provide options for the new RT's, for example for us jazz cats:

Purchase only the new RT Sets 91 and 92 - the Jazz Horn Soloist - that's $29 x 2 for $58.
Or
Purchase the New RealPak Jazz 4 which includes all of Jazz 4 - RT 90 - 95 (Jazz horns plus guitar and organ) for $79.
Or
Purchase the Summer Pak, RTs 83 - 101 which includes Jazz 4, Country 4 and Rock 4 Real Paks for $99

All can be downloaded. If you don't need certain RT styles then you can save some money. However, as you see the additional cost is marginal.


Like others have said, where you spend your money depends on your priorities. The priorities in my house are - Wife, Kids, House, Me


Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper

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RealBand may not be perfect, or even full featured enough for the more experienced DAW users, but hey it is FREE. You get it with BIAB, it is similar enough in user interface and features to BIAB that you should feel right at home with it if you know BIAB. And yes, it is in its infancy so I think what it does at this stage is amazing. Did I mention it is FREE? It comes with all versions of BIAB. So if you don't like it, don't use it and spend the bucks it will take to get some other DAW, go through the learning curve and then if you find you don't like that one after all you are out whatever it cost to buy it. Buggy? Maybe. But from experience (a lot of it my own) most bugs turn out to be caused by the user and/or the computer setup. I know that some of the bugs reported here I don't find on my setup. Maybe I'm lucky. Anyway, I would like to thank the entire staff at PGMusic for their efforts in making BIAB even better by the addition of RealBand. I really like it.
Good luck all.

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Quote:

most bugs turn out to be caused by the user and/or the computer setup. I know that some of the bugs reported here I don't find on my setup.




AMEN


John
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Quote:

Hey Dan & Joe,
I do use this stuff a lot maybe a couple of factors come in to play:
1. I don't use the program to create recordings. I use it for live
2. There may be an age factor. Don't know. I'm 60 and grew up with tape machines. Cut,copy, paste was not something you did much of as it was a tedious physical process so I still don't do much of that. I use RB more like a real sophisticated tape machine & console. I lay down tracks, add effects & mix.




Not that far behind you in age John. Don't get me wrong there are a few things in RB that are invaluable to me, like generating the realtracks and easy way to convert all to wav.

What I mean by the easy way to mute a section in cubase is just use the scissors tool to do 2 snips on a track and then just use the mute X tool to mute the section in between, that you can unmute easy again. Don't think that easy option is available in RB though probably same thing can be done with a longer workaround.

Joe


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Btw- I'm pushing 50 myself. When you say you use RB as a sophisticated tape machine, you just described ALL daws. When they are done right, they are very much like a tape machine only a whole lot better. Some are better and more developed, that's all. RB will get there if they want it to- or at least more there than it is now.

I didn't even realize this was the biab forum- I jump around between the two- biab and RB. Debating RB here is not my intention, nor should it be done in a biab forum, or in a thread that's not about that. I'd be more than happy to discuss the merits of RB over there. I would also flood the wish list forum, but I'll take my time and see how it progresses.




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When I say sophisticated tape machine it's only in the context of not using tape. my work habits are somewhat the same. I record parts where I need them. I work in a linear fashion. On occasion i will use the copy/paste. I use effects etc. I have Cakewalk Pro Audio 8, Sonar4 ,Sonar 8.5 and Adobe Audition 1.5. If I was to choose one, not including RB, I'd still use Pro Audio 8.
I drive a Hyundai Accent. Does everything I want, reliable, inexpensive to run etc. I'd love a Ferrari but would want all that goes with it.
I guess the bottom line here is that just cause a program doesn't have the feature you want doesn't make it clunky or buggy.
PS- i have uninstalled everything other then RB & BIAB. Don't need them.


John
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LOL! Good for you John. Hey really, I'm with you. I've read and participated in many a debate like this over countless daws. The problem is that I said clunky and buggy. Not a good choice of words. Well actually buggy is ok. I mean, if it doesn't work all the time for me it's buggy, but that doesn't mean the bug isn't on my end somehow in the pc setup. But clunky, I suppose I could have said something different there. Suffice to say RB for me is essencial for taking what I put together in biab, many steps and tracks further. It's indespensible for that. If it worked more like what I'm used to in other daws, I could use it for further editing, mixing, and automation. And if the feature set gets deeper, it would be to my liking and most certainly yours, I would hope. There's no reason not to hope something will get even better, right?

Btw- I drive a Honda Fit. To me, it's my Cadillac. But I haven't wiped out all software except biab and RB. I use all my tools along the way. They all have strenghts. The only thing I prune out is plugins that I just don't need. THEY can get out of hand over time.

Dan

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Rewire was talked about at one point prior to the drag & drop implementation.
I'm just a singing bass player that's played bars all his life and got tired of bands. I do not write or do my own stuff thus I don't do recordings that need to be polished the the finest degree for repeated listening. I just do cover tunes mixed like a REAL BAND. I get them right but they are mixed in mono for live.Lot more leeway.


John
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Cita:

Cita:

most bugs turn out to be caused by the user and/or the computer setup. I know that some of the bugs reported here I don't find on my setup.




AMEN




I agree, myself being a case. I remember I was in trouble with audio recording because I didn't setup ASIO as audio driver in setup...1.5 seg latency almost killed me. I was barely to seconds away to post a bug on that.

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One program has one feature and another something else. PT, and Rb have certain things i love, then it might not have a feature another program has i need. SO i keep a couple others around to fix that one little thing. Like having a skil saw, hammer, cordless drill and a electric planer. All are different but they all contribute to a job well done. The planer will get limited use, but without it the finished product is less than it could be. Sometimes i have to open up another program to smooth things out.

I hope that RB develops slow and steady. I want to see the audio tools develop, and see the VSTi implimentation grow. Once that all happens i think it will be my go to app. I really do not want to see BiaB change to much, i think it does what it does better than anything else, and once the drag and drop matures a bit more who knows how easy it will be to use the two in conjuction.

RB is a tad buggy, not terrible, but still a bit shakey. I have confidence that PG will continue to work on these issues.


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Quote:

RB is a tad buggy, not terrible, but still a bit shakey. I have confidence that PG will continue to work on these issues.



Well, since everyone is throwing around AMEN, I guess I'll throw out an AMEN to that! It sometimes exhibits odd behavior. Nothing monumental, but a little 'shakey' is a good way to put it. I think the program is awesome and the better it gets, the better the whole package gets. It's the perfect way to take a biab compositions to many 'next levels'. Keep working on RB, PG! You have a WINNER going!

Dan

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I would prefer to see PG focus primarily on their excellent music creation tools rather than working on improving Real Band as a DAW. I was intially excited about Real Band but with the BIAB Plug in capability I now do almost all of my work with BIAB sometimes with Sonar running. This way I have the best of both worlds. I do like the precision of EZ Drummer for nailing down very tight drum charts. This type of interface would also be nice in BIAB. There are so many tracks available now a really good interface for track selection would really help.

As for price I would gladly pay for improvements that help me to more readily find the needed style, tracks etc. Having just dealt with the pains of downloading and authorizing other music software BIAB looks even better!


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Quote:

What isn't getting too expensive these days!




Housing, the Euro, computers, computer software (most), consumer electronics. Many things that we don't need are getting cheaper because we don't really need to buy them. Though we need housing, the credit bubble, corruption, and lunacy caused too much to be built and prices will continue to fall.

Getting back to the op's point. I agree that the upgrade costs are too expensive. I'm still ticked off that my USB drive failed shortly after arrival. I've realized that even though I've upgraded every year, there were very few new features that I used. Old bugs slow to get fixed, or not fixed at all, and new bugs with the new feature bloat.

If they had a low cost annual upgrade it would make sense, like if you had the xxx pack. That's another thing, it takes like 30 minutes just to understand what's in each pack, and even then I didn't get all I thought I'd get. It used to be the Mega pack was everything, now there are a number of things past mega. I know a consumer shouldn't complain about having too many choices, but it takes too long to figure it out.


Finally, I have found a cool signature with sufficiently dry humor.
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Hello All,

I went from BB 2009 and RB 2009 to 2010.5. That upgrade cost only $69 plus $10 for the manual and $5 shipping- an incredible upgrade for just $84.00!

I wasn't using RB all that much, but after going back and reviewing all the helpful insights and comments on the RB forum, comments from Noel, Bob Harvey, Mac, Silvertones, Jazzmandan, Jazzmammal, et al, I was indeed enlightened.

BTW, rather than trying to dissect all the available paks, I just purchased a realdrums set, which I really needed, for $29.

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I'm a bit leery about all this. $600? I have a vintage American Strat I got for that price.

I have the limited $129 version but I'm wondering if it's even worth paying the extra $279 for .wav files. Is it worth it? Is RealBand THAT good as a DAW and does it offer that much more than other DAWs?

Last edited by Strato; 08/25/14 04:54 PM.
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Strato,

Welcome to the forums.

What version of BIAB do you have? (e.g. 2013, 2010, etc.)

Also, if I'm reading the price list correctly, the upgrade from Pro to Ultrapluspak (if you have BIAB 2012 or earlier), is $299 and not $600. The Ultrapluspak is the cheapest BIAB product that has everything: all styles, all Realtracks, all Realdrums, etc.

Regards,
Noel


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Strato,

There are some number of top notch performers, musicians, and sound engineers
on this site. They help us all thru the various trials and tribulations.
Occasionally they have posted Pics of their studios.

They have pumped thousands into their equipment primary as your guitar/s and
support requirements.

Yet they still purchased and use PG Music products.

As Noel mentioned with older version the upgrade does bite a little, but you get
so many things with this you'll be amazed.

Also keep in mind they have a free 30 day trial period.
Give it a whirl, and see how you feed about they system.

Also welcome aboard.

Good luck.

Last edited by seeker; 08/25/14 05:22 PM.

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If it helps;
If you already have the $129 version, the 'upgrade' is likely $149 to match what you quoted as the $269 price.
See here -
http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.packages.htm
(scroll down)
Hope that helps.

To answer your last question; can you generate tracks in any other DAW like you can in Realband?
The value of that is up to you, but it is HUGE here.

Last edited by rharv; 08/25/14 06:07 PM.

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Thanks for the responses folks.

I'm using the 2014 version. I just picked it up today. And from what I see on the purchase page there isn't an option for me to go to the Ultrapluspak and I'm certainly not seeing anything for $149. lol. What am I missing here?

I've been producing music for over 30 years and yes, have also put 10s of 1000s of dollars into my studio. That's why I'm wondering, by looking at what BIAB and RealBand are offering me right now (very little with the $129 version), if it's worth it to upgrade or not.

I could just use RealBand as a basic DAW. No problem. But if that's the case then I just purchased another DAW. lol. I already have several on my machine. I purchased this product thinking it could cut down on my workload when producing drum tracks, for the most part. However, unless I shell out another - I don't even know how much because the purchase page is pretty confusing to me - I don't have that option.

Everything I try to load into RealBand or BIAB isn't available and spits out an error. That's a bit concerning at this point. What did I get for $129? A midi sampler? I create my own with C++. lol

Last edited by Strato; 08/25/14 06:50 PM.
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Ok these programs are garbage. I tried to save a simple file from RealBand and it crashed my entire machine. Had to reboot and then RealBand tried to open itself again afterward. WTF?

$600 for this? Absolutely not. Have fun with it folks.

Last edited by Strato; 08/25/14 07:10 PM.
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Every time I open RealBand it wants me to re-configure my audio and midi. Sometimes it just cuts out audio altogether for no apparent reason. You call this a professional program? lol. I highly doubt it. Who scripted this shyte?

Last edited by Strato; 08/25/14 07:36 PM.
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Now BIAB has wiped out my installation of Amplitube 3. I sank $500 into that program and your program is making me reinstall it. It had better work after I do so or hell will come to pay. I have a hell of a lawyer.

You people really should test your products before selling them. Pathetic.

Last edited by Strato; 08/25/14 10:32 PM.
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Its a shame you are so disappointed in this brilliant piece of software.

It is not necessarily intuitive.
It is also piece of software that will take some amount of time to use.

Would strongly recommend you listen to some of the music in the showcase forum.
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=50&page=1

Listen to dozen or so pieces of some of the music created with the PG software.

Good luck on your future efforts!

Last edited by seeker; 08/25/14 10:26 PM.

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Any piece of software that crashes by simply attempting to save a file the user has created is far from brilliant. It's junk. It doesn't need to be intuitive, just usable. Especially when you want $600 for it.

I don't care about those pieces of music. They more than likely were recorded with real musicians in a professional studio environment and/or venue. I'm not stupid. I'm a merchant myself. I don't pull those kinds of tactics but I am well aware they are used to sell products which couldn't possibly produce what a person is hearing. Not unless the person is professionally trained as a sound engineer. And even then...maybe.

I've spent the last 30+ years recording and producing music. I know what it takes and how it's done. I was looking for an application that could possibly cut down the workload when it comes to laying out rhythm tracks. I thought that app might be BIAB, but so far all I've seen is a program that is extremely incompatible on a PC. Errors everywhere and crashes out of the blue. Not to mention destroying already installed software that it shouldn't even mess with.

I will spread the word about these products being unstable. People have a right to know before they shell out their hard earned dollars. It's called ethics. It's an old-fashioned term those over the age of 40 were brought up with and try to live their lives by. Google it.

Last edited by Strato; 08/25/14 11:08 PM.
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Strato,

You said ...

Quote:
I don't care about those pieces of music. They more than likely were recorded with real musicians in a professional studio environment and/or venue. I'm not stupid. I'm a merchant myself. I don't pull those kinds of tactics but I am well aware they are used to sell products which couldn't possibly produce what a person is hearing. Not unless the person is professionally trained as a sound engineer. And even then...maybe.


You couldn't be more wrong.

What you hear on the PG Music demos is exactly what you get. The same is true of the large majority of songs in the Users Showcase forum. All any person needs to do is to type in a chord progression in Band In A Box, select a style that suits the mood of the music and hit "Play".

Ten or so seconds later, a fully generated song backing is playing. Moreover, the backing (if using Realtracks) is created by some of the most highly acclaimed musicians around.

Quote:
It's called ethics.


PG Music is one of the most ethical companies I have ever dealt with.

Quote:
I was looking for an application that could possibly cut down the workload when it comes to laying out rhythm tracks. I thought that app might be BIAB


Band In A Box will do exactly what you're after (if I'm understanding what you mean by 'rhythm tracks'). I've been using the program since version 2006. It's brilliant.

The fact that it didn't work for you, and that you can't save files, makes me suspect that your antivirus software is stopping it from functioning properly on your system. Norton Antivirus, for example, has a tendency to treat some new software installations as hostile threats until told otherwise.

It's unfortunate that something on your system has prevented you from getting to experience just how amazing Band In A Box is.

If you want to hear what Band In A Box is capable of doing, have a listen to some of my songs (there's a link in my signature). With the exception of two of them which have an added guitar, what you hear is Band In A Box backing some vocals.

All the best,
Noel


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Originally Posted By: Strato
Now BIAB has wiped out my installation of Amplitube 3. I sank $500 into that program and your program is making me reinstall it. It had better work after I do so or hell will come to pay. I have a hell of a lawyer.

You people really should test your products before selling them. Pathetic.



The fact BIAB is not working for Srato indicates he needs a computer tech to set up his system rather than a lawyer. Most lawyers can't fix their own computers so why would he want them working on his?


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Any piece of software that crashes by simply attempting to save a file the user has created is far from brilliant. It's junk. It doesn't need to be intuitive, just usable. Especially when you want $600 for it.


Having used the program for a few years, I have experienced some crashes as well. In almost every case, it was “pilot error”, and not the program. I suspect that this is true in your case as well. There are thousands of people using these programs every day, and producing some very good music with them. I'd be willing to bet that you didn't install it properly, or as Noel said, there is a conflict with your AV software. PG's customer support is without peer, but a word of caution: lose the nasty tude when you speak to them. They are Canadians, and unaccustomed to rudeness. grin



I don't care about those pieces of music. They more than likely were recorded with real musicians in a professional studio environment and/or venue. I'm not stupid. I'm a merchant myself. I don't pull those kinds of tactics but I am well aware they are used to sell products which couldn't possibly produce what a person is hearing. Not unless the person is professionally trained as a sound engineer. And even then...maybe.


The music on the User Forum is all created with BIAB, by actual users, not PG Music.


I've spent the last 30+ years recording and producing music. I know what it takes and how it's done. I was looking for an application that could possibly cut down the workload when it comes to laying out rhythm tracks. I thought that app might be BIAB, but so far all I've seen is a program that is extremely incompatible on a PC. Errors everywhere and crashes out of the blue. Not to mention destroying already installed software that it shouldn't even mess with.


You can lay down excellent rhythm tracks with real musicians (RealTracks) playing in a matter of minutes with BIAB. Plenty of folks do, and most of them aren't professional musicians or producers.


I will spread the word about these products being unstable. People have a right to know before they shell out their hard earned dollars. It's called ethics. It's an old-fashioned term those over the age of 40 were brought up with and try to live their lives by. Google it.


So, spreading the “word” by slandering a product you cannot install properly or operate is ethical? grin

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Most often as a consultant I had to fix errors that were immanent in a system outside of the computer on a desk, lap, or palm.

About 90 percent seemed to originate from illiterate causes.

If you did install the program as any other program in the windows program folder then you did something the program wasn't programmed for to be. Mistreating programs often results in behaviour for which a computer operating system is most obviously not designed. That reasons because computer programmers and their relevant comptrollers are systems outside of a computer.

I didn't understand your point about ethics since it seems in contain a circular reference that I cannot resolve.

Disclaimer: I should actually not have answered to your posts because you did neither ask for assisatnce nor a feedback. All you did is shed what you cannot do. So if this is unwanted feedback for you, you may as well ignore it.


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Strado, good to see you on the forum. For a guy who just joined yesterday, you seem to have a lot to contribute...we appreciate that. With seven posts already, we look forward to your continued contributions. Many here can help you with the issues you are raising. Many of us have had issues when we first installed BIAB/RB...and the learning curve is steep. A good place to start is to list the equipment and specs of your system.


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Originally Posted By: Strato
Thanks for the responses folks.

...
Everything I try to load into RealBand or BIAB isn't available and spits out an error. That's a bit concerning at this point. What did I get for $129? A midi sampler? I create my own with C++. lol


Strato

It's a shame you've obviously so far missed the functionality and performance of this innovative and extremely capable software suite. You really owe it to yourself to give a bit more effort to try this out and resolve the issues you are witnessing.

I think you are being unfairly dismissive. You probably know that too.

Otherwise, if you can really write your own MIDI sampler in C++ for less than $129, well, go right ahead. Let me know when it's released... I'll be keen to get a copy.


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Originally Posted By: MountainSide
Many of us have had issues when we first installed BIAB/RB...and the learning curve is steep. A good place to start is to list the equipment and specs of your system.


MountainSide

Can I ever identify with that! When I first received my copy of 2014 Ultra (my first venture into the great PGMusic program) I had nothing but problems as well. But I must say that with two brothers, who also have BIAB and with the help of a great support team at PGMusic, I muddled my way through.

I agree that the learning curve is very steep but with the help of a large volume of videos (both by PGMusic and by other users) I can say now that I am just getting a good taste of how very awesome this program, truly is.

That said, it is not for the timid, it takes (speaking for my self, only) a lot of trial and error and pouring over these forum posts to get to a comfortable feeling about using this program to produce the backing tracks that I am looking for.

Great forum members, (and there are many) who are not slow in replying to your question about what they think might be the problem(s), are without question, the most helpful that I have seen in the many forums that I belong to! Thanks for all your help forum members!!

I know that I cannot help the OP, but wanted to post to share my story on the subject.

i truly hope that the OP gives this program another chance, I know that he will be amazed, once he gets through the start up issues.

Last edited by Del3535; 08/26/14 07:14 AM.

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I'm an user of BIAB since 2006 and I still have to experience a crash caused by a BIAB malfunction, across four different computer, at least eight versions of BIAB and four different WIndows versions.

I don't buy this guy can write code. For an expert he doesn't even mention a program that he currently uses. No workflow description? That's just not the attitude of an experienced music-maker and computer-savvy.

My take, he's just a troll passing by, and due to the fact that he couldn't get anybody to argue, he didn't stick around because nobody was feeding him. The people that frequent this board is far too polite and civil to engage in troll wars.

HTH,


Last edited by LtKojak; 08/26/14 08:52 AM.

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Originally Posted By: LtKojak
I'm an user of BIAB since 2006 and I still have to experience a crash caused by a BIAB malfunction, across four different computer, at least eight versions of BIAB and four different WIndows versions.

I don't buy this guy can write code. For an expert he doesn't even mention a program that he currently uses. No workflow description? That's just not the attitude of an experienced music-maker and computer-savvy.

My take, he's just a troll passing by, and due to the fact that he couldn't get anybody to argue, he didn't stick around because nobody was feeding him. The people that frequent this board is far too polite and civil to engage in troll wars.

HTH,



I agree 100%.

I was going to ask him/her to list his computer specs and software but I then thought against it. If they have 10s of thousands of dollars invested and has many DAWs but can't figure out BiaB or RB, writes code but hasn't a clue to why things are supposedly crashing, then something is amiss!
At least in my mind.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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Originally Posted By: c_fogle
The fact BIAB is not working for Srato indicates he needs a computer tech to set up his system rather than a lawyer. Most lawyers can't fix their own computers so why would he want them working on his?


My computer was fine before I installed BIAB buddy. And I probably know a hell of a lot more about setting up a system than you do. I've been a programmer for 26 years. Are you even 26 years of age, let alone a programmer for that length of time?

The PG products messed up my PC and there was nothing wrong with it before they were introduced. Those are the facts. If that hurts your feelings because you're so enamored with BIAB and RealBand then too bad. Life sucks sometimes.

I've read reviews all over the internet that have mentioned these same issues with the PG products. Of course, the reviews were well hidden in Google search results, otherwise I would have found and read them before I was stupid enough to spend any money for this crap. I should have known better.

End of discussion. Talk amongst yourselves if you like, but I'm out of here.

Last edited by Strato; 08/26/14 02:17 PM.
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Strato,

We understand your frustration and are eager to help but you need to meet us halfway. Tell us your system specs, hardware and operating system, where you're at in the install process, what installation choices you made, etc.

If it's installed, what happens when you open either program? What are you trying to do when the program crashes? What error or crash message do you get?


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Originally Posted By: c_fogle
My computer was fine before I installed BIAB buddy. And I probably know a hell of a lot more about setting up a system than you do. I've been a programmer for 26 years. Are you even 26 years of age, let alone a programmer for that length of time?

The PG products messed up my PC and there was nothing wrong with it before they were introduced. Those are the facts. If that hurts your feelings because you're so enamored with BIAB and RealBand then too bad. Life sucks sometimes.

I've read reviews all over the internet that have mentioned these same issues with the PG products. Of course, the reviews were well hidden in Google search results, otherwise I would have found and read them before I was stupid enough to spend any money for this crap. I should have known better.

End of discussion. Talk amongst yourselves if you like, but I'm out of here.


That's too bad - I'm sure your computer is fine. I'm sure the problems you are having with the software could all be fixed. But that will require patience and a learning process you may not be willing to endure.

I've gotten more than a little upset myself from time to time, but over the years I have figured out what does and doesn't work for me.

For one thing I don't regard Real Band as a DAW, but rather as a tool to generate many different Real Tracks which I can export and then load into my DAW of choice for editing. The results I've gotten have been more than satisfying.

If you really want to learn how to use these programs, slow down a little bit and give people a chance to help you. When you get frustrated, find a way to let off steam, but don't blast the very people who are trying to help you.


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Nothing to see here, moving along. No time for trolls.

The products this company produces are unparalleled for their intended purpose. Steep learning curve? Yes, indeed. Well worth the effort.

Last edited by Don R; 08/26/14 09:57 PM.
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You people really can't read, can you? You should have stayed in school. And I'm no GD troll Don R. I'm a VERY pissed off ex-customer of this horrific software.

This is NOT about a steep learning curve. It's about the fact that BIAB F***** up my computer and there was NOTHING wrong with it before I installed BIAB. Am I finally getting through?

I can navigate every major DAW on the market today. No matter how convoluted the interface might be - BIAB being one of the worst. I was doing fine with BIAB UNTIL it crashed my computer, gave me the blue screen of death and completely destroyed my $500 installation of Ampltiube.

You should really listen to what I'm saying instead of trying to convince me to stick around and keep going with BIAB. Trust me, I cannot be swayed by incessant sales pitches.

My PC was unusable with the PG software on it. After spending the last 24 hours reinstalling things and getting rid of all the leftover BIAB garbage things are finally starting to work again.

If you really need to know my specs, here they are:

AMD Athlon II X4 630 Processor 2.80GHz
1 TB HDD - 16GB of RAM (although RAM is irrelevant because Windows won't use it all in applications anyway)
M-Audio Delta 2496 Audiophile Sound Card - updated drivers, yada yada
Samson Resolv 40A Studio Monitors
No hardware inputs - strictly DI into the PCI card

Again, I'm done with this. I don't have the software anymore anyway so I shouldn't even be here. I was just pissed off because you people won't read my posts properly. So I guess I'm wasting my freaking time. I KNOW how to use BIAB, I owned it years ago. But the 2014 version messed up my PC BADLY.

Ciao

Last edited by Strato; 08/26/14 11:39 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Strato
You should really listen to what I'm saying instead of trying to convince me to stick around and keep going with BIAB. Trust me, I cannot be swayed by incessant sales pitches.

Lemme try a different approach then...Please Leave!

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Dude, whatever trashed your system wasn't Biab. That's just some weird coincidence.

Some very good people here offered to help and you just went off on them implying they have no clue how this stuff works or worse they're lying or PG Music is lying with the demos.

All I'll say is you are not the only pro level music producer on this forum.

These programs work just fine.

Bob


Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I was right. Thank you for making my point oh so clear.

Your Honor, I rest my case! wink

Last edited by Callie - PG Music; 08/27/14 11:13 AM.

Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
Milano, Italy
https://soundcloud.com/theodore-kojak/tracks
Hy-Bro Test Sound Files
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Originally Posted By: Strato
You people really can't read, can you? You should have stayed in school. And I'm no GD troll Don R. I'm a VERY pissed off ex-customer of this horrific software.

This is NOT about a steep learning curve. It's about the fact that BIAB F***** up my computer and there was NOTHING wrong with it before I installed BIAB. Am I finally getting through?

I can navigate every major DAW on the market today. No matter how convoluted the interface might be - BIAB being one of the worst. I was doing fine with BIAB UNTIL it crashed my computer, gave me the blue screen of death and completely destroyed my $500 installation of Ampltiube.

You should really listen to what I'm saying instead of trying to convince me to stick around and keep going with BIAB. Trust me, I cannot be swayed by incessant sales pitches.

My PC was unusable with the PG software on it. After spending the last 24 hours reinstalling things and getting rid of all the leftover BIAB garbage things are finally starting to work again.

If you really need to know my specs, here they are:

AMD Athlon II X4 630 Processor 2.80GHz
1 TB HDD - 16GB of RAM (although RAM is irrelevant because Windows won't use it all in applications anyway)
M-Audio Delta 2496 Audiophile Sound Card - updated drivers, yada yada
Samson Resolv 40A Studio Monitors
No hardware inputs - strictly DI into the PCI card

Again, I'm done with this. I don't have the software anymore anyway so I shouldn't even be here. I was just pissed off because you people won't read my posts properly. So I guess I'm wasting my freaking time. I KNOW how to use BIAB, I owned it years ago. But the 2014 version messed up my PC BADLY.

Ciao


Strato,

Welcome to the forum. I probably believe that you feel that biab messed up your computer, and for the following reason.

Its been my experience that any piece of software, be it biab in your case or for example an antivirus or firewall (both in my case) can really mess up your computer, due to some reason which is probably too much trouble to find out.

It has happened to me countless times with different software, but not biab or realband yet, sure realband in particular can crash now and again, but it has not totally messed up my windows 7 installation.

When that does happen I simple reinstall my Acronis disk image of the whole OS and restart again installing the software and if the same thing happens again, I reach the conclusion that the software that I am trying to install is for some reason not compatable with my system. That has never happened with either biab or realband yet. Amplitude may be a problem now and again, but that's more a copy protection thing to do with that company not PGmusic.

For the record PGmusic give you a 30 day guarantee so if you are not happy then you can request your money back.

Strato as I said again you are very welcome to the forum, great bunch of people here will help you in every way they can.

Why don't you have another go with biab?

Best regards
Musiclover

Last edited by musiclover; 08/27/14 04:32 AM.

Musiclover

My music https://www.youtube.com/user/donegalprideofall

Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2024, Cubase 13, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use smile
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After reading Stratos' most recent posts, I'm under the opinion that we may not want to encourage him to stick around...he actually might!


Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

New with the DAW Plugin Version 6.0, released with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows: the Reaper® Panel!

This new panel offers built-in specific support for the Reaper® DAW API allowing direct transfer of Band-in-a-Box® files to/from Reaper® tracks!

When you run the Plugin from Reaper®, there is a panel to set the following options:
-BB Track(s) to send: This allows you to select the Plugin tracks that will be sent Reaper.
-Destination Reaper Track: This lets you select the destination Reaper track to receive media content from the Plugin.
-At Bar: You can select a bar in Reaper where the Plugin tracks should be placed.
-Start Below Selected Track: This allows you to place the Plugin tracks below the destination Reaper track.
-Overwrite Reaper Track: You can overwrite previous content on the destination Reaper track.
-Move to Project Folder: With this option, you can move the Plugin tracks to the Reaper project folder.
-Send Reaper Instructions Enable this option to send the Reaper Instructions instead of rendering audio tracks, which is faster.
-Render Audio & Instructions: Enable this option to generate audio files and the Reaper instructions.
-Send Tracks After Generating: This allows the Plugin to automatically send tracks to Reaper after generating.
-Send Audio for MIDI Track: Enable this option to send rendered audio for MIDI tracks.
-Send RealCharts with Audio: If this option is enabled, Enable this option to send RealCharts with audio.

Check out this video highlighting the new Reaper®-specific features: Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Video

The new Band-in-a-Box VST DAW Plugin Verion 6 adds over 20 new features!

Watch the new features video to learn more: Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2024 - DAW Plugin Version 6 New Features

We also list these new features at www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.plugin.htm.

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