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#80879 - 07/27/10 06:15 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Half Time/Double Time
mellowstu Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 31
Half time is working fine, i have a track at 220 bpm and i load a realtrack at 110 and sounds great but double time does not seem to be working. Say i write a song at 55 bpm and i load the Jazz Sw 110 Acoustic Bass, the double time feature does not work and i get a bad sounding bass line full of artifacts.
I have the 'allow half time/double' box checked but only half time is working. Anything i'm doing wrong?

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#80880 - 07/27/10 07:30 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Half Time/Double Time [Re: mellowstu]
Robh Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4166
Loc: California
Only half the time! Opps sorry my bad! Did I say that out loud?
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#80881 - 07/27/10 07:55 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Half Time/Double Time [Re: mellowstu]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13456
To make half time or double time work for a track, you need to set the track to half or double time. This is done in realtracks assign dialog, near the top right of the dialog.
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PG Music Inc.

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#80882 - 07/28/10 05:22 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Half Time/Double Time [Re: PeterGannon]
Bobby K Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 64
Loc: Kansas City
This isn't working for me either. I'm just now exploring the half and double time feature myself, and I'm having the same results as mellowstu. If my song is at 65 BPM, and I choose a snarly, wild electric guitar solo that's at 120, it doesn't seem to matter whether I put a checkmark next to "Double Time?" when choosing the Soloist, or choose "Double Time" in the 'Assign Real Tracks' dialog - I still get a garbled, artifact-ridden guitar solo.

There must be something else we're just not understanding here, huh?

BIAB 2010.5, Build 303

Bobby K.

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#80883 - 07/28/10 07:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Half Time/Double Time [Re: Bobby K]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13722
Loc: Australia
Hi Bobby,

Early on, I experienced issues with the Soloist. For me, it turned out that the issues arose because the Soloist track was frozen and I didn't realize it. That's when I learned that when BIAB saves a song with a solo, it automatically locks that solo. With this in mind, have you double-checked that the Soloist is not frozen before you apply the Double (Half) time option. Once that option is applied, it is then necessary to regenerate the track.

Regards,
Noel
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#80884 - 07/28/10 01:07 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Half Time/Double Time [Re: Bobby K]
Andrew - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 3782
Loc: Victoria, BC
Hello,

Quote:

I have the 'allow half time/double' box checked but only half time is working.




It sounds like you have an old build of the program installed, since newer builds don't have that checkbox. Install the latest build, then follow Peter's instructions, and it should work for you.

Quote:

This isn't working for me either. I'm just now exploring the half and double time feature myself, and I'm having the same results as mellowstu. If my song is at 65 BPM, and I choose a snarly, wild electric guitar solo that's at 120, it doesn't seem to matter whether I put a checkmark next to "Double Time?" when choosing the Soloist, or choose "Double Time" in the 'Assign Real Tracks' dialog - I still get a garbled, artifact-ridden guitar solo.




As Noel said, the problem is most likely that you are generating your solo using the Soloist dialog. Instead, use the Assign RealTracks dialog. For example, try this.

1. Set your song to 55 bpm
2. Right-click on the bass track and click on Add/Remove RealTracks.
3. Select Bass, Acoustic, Jazz Sw 110.
4. Set the Timebase to 'double time'.
5. Close the RealTracks picker and press Play.

In this particular example, note that if you *don't* set it to double-time, Band-in-a-Box will automatically substitute the 110bpm bass with 'Bass, Acoustic, Jazz Ballad Sw 060', then slow this one down by 5bpm. You can enable/disable this particular feature in the RealTracks Preferences dialog (Allow auto-RealTracks subsitution...)
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PG Music Inc.

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#80885 - 07/28/10 06:37 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Half Time/Double Time [Re: Andrew - PG Music]
Bobby K Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 64
Loc: Kansas City
Quote:

As Noel said, the problem is most likely that you are generating your solo using the Soloist dialog.




How else do you generate a solo? I did have success with the 'Assign Real Tracks' double time method you described, which gave me a nice, artifact-free *rhythm* track, but, that's not a soloist. How do we go about generating a double time *soloist*, if not from the Soloist dialog?

Thanks.

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#80886 - 07/29/10 03:43 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Half Time/Double Time [Re: Bobby K]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13722
Loc: Australia
Bobby,

When you get a chance, could you please step me through how you go about setting-up a simple solo? That way, I'll be able to read what you do and try it out.

Also, if the end result of your arrangement is going to be an mp3 (or equivalent), Realband is extremely versatile when it comes to manipulating solos. That program might be worth investigating, too.

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#80887 - 07/30/10 03:40 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Half Time/Double Time [Re: Noel96]
Bobby K Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 64
Loc: Kansas City
Okay, good idea.

Here goes. After opening BIAB, in which my current default style is "=FBL12SP LitePop w/12str.FpkAc.Guit(65RT)", I enter a few chords like, say, C for two bars, then F, and then repeat that several times. Tempo is at 65. I then click the Soloist button, then immediately click the RealTracks button to narrow it down to just RT's. I then choose whatever 120-140 tempo RTs I happen to find - for example, "496 Guitar,El,Rh StoneZ1 Ev120", and then put a checkmark in the "Double Time?" box, and hit "OK". It automatically generates the solo, but when it plays, it sounds awful - slow, garbled and "artifacty". Same as if I *hadn't* checked the "Double Time?" box.

Bobby K.

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#80888 - 07/30/10 03:44 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Half Time/Double Time [Re: Bobby K]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13722
Loc: Australia
Hi Bobby,

Thank you for the information. I'll have a play around and get back to you.

Regards,
Noel
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LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#80889 - 07/30/10 04:30 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Half Time/Double Time [Re: Noel96]
Bobby K Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 64
Loc: Kansas City
Okay. Btw, like I said earlier, if I then right-click the soloist track and 'Assign Real Tracks', then choose the same style (496 - Guitar.... StoneZ...Ev120), with 'Double Time' selected in the Timebase area, it then generates fine and sounds great. I'd be happy doing it that way, but I thought the soloists chosen in the Select Soloist dialog play actual solos, as opposed to just rhythm parts, right? (it's hard to tell with the "StoneZ" style - probably not the best example of the difference between rhythm and soloist)...

...

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#80890 - 07/30/10 06:10 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Half Time/Double Time [Re: Bobby K]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13722
Loc: Australia
Hi Bobby,

I've had a little play around. The "double-time" option in the Soloist dialogue (the pop-up one gets when using the S button to generate a solo) is not a double-time for Realtracks. My understanding is that this particular double-time option is meant for the MIDI solos; it has been around for a lot longer than Realtracks. Double-timing MIDI involves different programming from double-timing RTs. From playing with the settings, my conclusion is that the S button can be used to generate RT solos in normal time only.

To generate RTs in half- or double-time, it is necessary to use the "Assign Realtracks" that you have already discovered (and select double-time or half-time options within the assign option). With Realtracks, it is possible to assign a solo instrument to any track, they are not restricted to the Soloist track. Moreover, the generated solo is created exactly the same on any track. The reason for this is that RT Soloists are pieced together from fragments of actual playing - assembling these solos does not work on a note-by-note basis like MIDI.

A trick that I use with RT solos is to generate the solo and then to use Edit >> Settings for current bar to bring the solo in and out of the mix by varying the volume at the appropriate bars.

Hope this helps,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#80891 - 07/30/10 07:38 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Half Time/Double Time [Re: Noel96]
Bobby K Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 64
Loc: Kansas City
I see. Well if that's so, then in the Select Soloist dialog (via the 'S' button) the placement of that "Double Time?" checkbox - so close to the RealTracks button - is really kind of deceiving, isn't it. At the same time though, it seems like, if you can double or half-time RTs from elsewhere in BIAB (using 'Assign RealTracks'), it should be a simple matter of cloning that function over to the Select Soloist dialog. Maybe it's more complicated than that, I'm not a programmer... But gee, they've already got the RealTracks button in there - they're so close...

The other thing is, I discovered that soloists are among the choices in the 'Assign RealTracks' list. (you see, I thought that *that* route was exclusively for rhythm parts, whereas 'Select Soloist' was exclusively for solos - that was my little mistake.)

So, assuming all possible soloists are also available via the 'Assign RealTracks' dialog, I'm okay with that.

And thanks for the tip about bar settings and soloists. I've been noodling around with bar settings for the first time, and it's amazing the kind of life you can breathe into your songs, just by muting a couple of instruments here and there, and then bringing them back in. Makes my stuff sound... almost legit!

Bobby K.

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#80892 - 07/30/10 12:20 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Half Time/Double Time - A related question [Re: Bobby K]
Bill Lyons Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/04/10
Posts: 22
Loc: Denver
Hi,

I have a related question about half/double time. I'd like to try and get two kicks in a row, i.e. a shot on beat 1 *and* beat and then another kick on beat 2. (Two consecutive eighth notes). To date, when I've had to get two eighth note kicks in a row, I typically figure out which one is the strongest beat, and set Band in a Box to Shot or Stop on that beat. Then I play or record the beat that I want emphasized before or after BiaB's assigned beat.
It looks like with the double time/half time options I may have the ability to get two eighth note kicks from Band in a Box by forcing half-time for two bars and then doubling the tempo for those two bars. If this works, I can get around the limitation of not being able to have two consecutive eighth note kicks or more than four changes in a given measure. I look forward to the replies.

Thanks,
Bill


Edited by Bill Lyons (07/30/10 04:08 PM)

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