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#81070 - 07/30/10 02:20 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Robh]
Shockwave199 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 376
Loc: Long Island, NY
Peter, first off- thanks for including my track. You have no idea how freakin fun your efforts have given me over the past month. Or, maybe you do. I'm a long time musician and recordist and I must tell you, with all the gear and software I've used it's tough to quicken me now. You have done so my friend, in a big way. This opens up so much. Thank you for that. And thank you for such active support in continuing to make the product better. That's as great as the software itself.

To the OP, in a nutshell you can get WAY better sounds than the demos. It's up to the individual, their interest in doing so, and their ability to do so. You can make even realtracks sound ho-hum if you don't care or even try to create a dynamic, flattering mix. Or, they can be as slickly produced as you can muster. There's no studio trickery in those demos. That's the very LEAST good it can sound. The possibilities go as far as the operator can take it, mix wise, including rock or pop.

Dan
_________________________
My songs [newest being BIAB work]- http://www.songramp.com/homepage.php?userid=1621

My YT Channel- http://www.youtube.com/user/dfizzbom

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#81071 - 07/30/10 02:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Shockwave199]
critter Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 630
Loc: Wisconsin
Here, here , to that........I am still working on a lot of songs, looking for the magic moment. With 2010.5 the LA Rock stuff has changed a few of the ideas. I am an old rocker and love what keeps coming along.
_________________________
Critter

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#81072 - 07/30/10 03:04 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Shockwave199]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13319
Loc: Australia
Playing in the band,
Quote:

no it sounds like midi



I just had a listen to the song that prompted you to make the above statement. I'm not quite sure how you can hear this song as MIDI. Your statement has me puzzled. Do you have much experience with MIDI? The more I read your posts, the more I find myself wondering what your concept of what MIDI is. To me it seems as though you have an idea (maybe sound) in your mind that you associate with "MIDI" and that this idea or sound is quite divergent from the actual reality of MIDI.

Good luck with your hunt.
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#81073 - 07/30/10 04:50 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Noel96]
deltagolf Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 95
Loc: planet Earth
Hi there "Playin In The Band"

I do consider myself being your "regular joe" as you mentioned it. I don't create backing-tracks since I don't play any instrument anymore. But I enjoy endless hours on the computer "creating" music just for fun.

To my ears this doesn't sound MIDI at all.
http://www.songramp.com/mod/mps/viewprivtrack.php?trackid=56655

And one other tune I'm working on right now (don't judge the piano voices -all MIDI - they still have to be refined). But ALL music was created by BIAB - even the melody. Of course it sounds like elevator music [sic]. BUT ! you won't believe how much fun I had creating and mixing and re-mixing etc..

http://www.songramp.com/mod/mps/viewprivtrack.php?trackid=56684

As I get more experienced mixing, panning, EQ'eing I get better results. To tell you the truth - I sometimes get goospimples out of joy when I listen to the final mixdown after creating some good stuff (only to find out the next morning it isn't good stuff at all - time to re-mix, he-he - that's part of the fun).

(edit) I have to add that I'm still relatively new to BIAB (use it for less than two years - sparetime only) and I'm still scratchin only on the surface of this absolutely stunning software package.

Daniel


Edited by deltagolf (07/30/10 05:23 AM)

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#81074 - 07/30/10 07:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Robh]
Playin In The Band Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/21/10
Posts: 89
Well I would buying BIAB so that I could get better results than Im getting, not get worse results.

And I could post a song done in a pro studio with 96 tracks and you still wouldnt admit it sounded better than BIAB, so thats a little rediculous asking me. As if u'd say "wow, I was dead wrong, this blows aways anything here... You are sooooooo right PITB...

chuckles...

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#81075 - 07/30/10 07:38 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Playin In The Band]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
This one just made the IGNORE[/i} list...


troll
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

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#81076 - 07/30/10 07:38 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: PeterGannon]
Playin In The Band Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/21/10
Posts: 89
smooth jazz IS jazz fusion. It's jazz, pop and rock combined...fused genres.

When you say their arent any midi tracks in there, that doesnt strenghten your argument, cause anybody with ears can tell thats not a real band. Call it midi, call it what u like, it's not a band.

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#81077 - 07/30/10 07:41 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: critter]
Playin In The Band Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/21/10
Posts: 89
But if I play all the instruments myself why do I need BIAB?

And Im not bashing it, It is a great tool and a great piece of software to own for many reasons. But I dont believe it's for professional recording.

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#81078 - 07/30/10 07:45 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Shockwave199]
Playin In The Band Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/21/10
Posts: 89
The overal vibe I get when listening to somethng produced in Biab is that the music is happening in slow motion.

Almost as if there is a magnet pulling all the music together into one spot as it glides along from passage to passage.

Almost as if the music is recorded and your playing it back on a tape deck or cd player and then jamming or singing over it.

If thats all in my imagaination, Im in trouble

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#81079 - 07/30/10 07:57 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Noel96]
Playin In The Band Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/21/10
Posts: 89
it sounds like Midi via playback. That slow swushing wall of sound that ducks in and out of chord changes.

Not neccessarily the individual sounds but the sound of it as it's playing.

If that sounds real to you or live to you, I dont know what to tell ya.

When I emailed you to ask if your song "loving you" was done in BIAB, you said no.

Isn't it interesting how I picked that one out of all your songs? I wanted to that have been done
in BIAB, but it wasn't.

Still sounded like drum machine and such, but it was acceptable to me.

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#81080 - 07/30/10 08:04 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: deltagolf]
Playin In The Band Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/21/10
Posts: 89
sounds ok, yet not real.

too perfect of timing and not alot of brightness to it, it's dull sounding.

it's fine for a run of the mill demo, it's just it's hard enough to write a song that
is authentic, if you record it unauthentically, it's going to hurt it's overall effect

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#81081 - 07/30/10 08:24 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Playin In The Band]
deltagolf Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 95
Loc: planet Earth
o.k. - I'll take it as constructive criticism. Needs work. Brightness would be no problem - but I want to avoid going into the direction of todays modern way of mixing (a lot of extremely thin and pale sounding instruments , e.g. a strumming guitar without sound - only the actual strumming being heard). I like to keep it warm and natural. Probably vary a bit tempo and slide one or the other track a wee bit out of "click" here and there would be an idea. Thanks.
Daniel
_________________________
BIAB 2012 (ASIO) on Vista 32, Dual-Core 2.0Ghz with 4GB Memory. Main DAW is Samplitude (11 & ProX) and I like Spaghetti. BTW: Today is a good Day to have a Good Day.

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#81082 - 07/30/10 09:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: deltagolf]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13319
Loc: Australia
Hi deltagolf,

I just listened to your song on Songramp. It's brilliant! I loved it. There's nothing I'd change. I thought it was happy, cheerful, skillful and mixed perfectly! An awesome job.

You should paste the link to this song in the new "User Showcase" Forum and see what others think

http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=usershowcase

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#81083 - 07/30/10 09:47 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Noel96]
deltagolf Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 95
Loc: planet Earth
Hi Noel
Thank you. An unexpected heads-up from one of the masters!
Maybe I will (don't know though which one you mean). They both still need some attention to detail. Unfortunately the song details are on the "old" BIAB 2010 harddrive which I stowed away after receiving 2010.5. Therefore I don't have access to the original BIAB files right now for the details. Guess I'll have to plug it in again to retrieve the data. I usually move the wav and MIDI files to another harddrive for further processing after BIAB has done it's magic.
Thanks.
Best, Daniel
_________________________
BIAB 2012 (ASIO) on Vista 32, Dual-Core 2.0Ghz with 4GB Memory. Main DAW is Samplitude (11 & ProX) and I like Spaghetti. BTW: Today is a good Day to have a Good Day.

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#81084 - 07/30/10 10:14 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: deltagolf]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13319
Loc: Australia
Hi Daniel

You made me smile You know, I have NEVER read my name and "master" in the same sentence before! LOL. I wish!
Quote:

Maybe I will (don't know though which one you mean)



If you click on the link in my above post, it will take you to the new forum. (You can access it by clicking on "Forums" located between "Products" and "Support" on the upper most menu.) People would love to hear this song of yours! Trust me. I can already see the skid marks on MarioD's monitor that will arise when he drags your song into his keeper folder

All the best,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#81085 - 07/30/10 11:21 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Noel96]
John Conley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
Obviously the guy never looked up Oliver Gannon or Miles Black or Neil Swanson.

All major contributors and one them an award winning jazz guitarist and brother of Peter Gannon.

Walk in, bash people, and their backgrounds and say they know nothing?

As Mac said <ignore> USERIDX </ignore>
_________________________
John Conley
Musica est vita

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#81086 - 07/30/10 11:50 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: John Conley]
Playin In The Band Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/21/10
Posts: 89
who bashed anyone? Who bashed anyone's background? Saying somebody's demo doesn't sound like a real band is not bashing, it's observing and giving in opinion. Doesn't mean the music sucks or the artists sucks, it just means that the backing tracks arent doing them any favors.

Sounds like you're upset with my opinion, and so u need a rallying cry of "he comes in bashes people...ill put him on ignore"

maybe you're afraid im right, and others might believe me.

I doubt they will believe me, they seem pretty darned convinced this is the the rolling stones or
mccoy tyner in a box.

Keep making me the bad guy though, it's telling.


Edited by Playin In The Band (07/30/10 11:51 AM)

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#81087 - 07/30/10 12:50 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Playin In The Band]
jford Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10488
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
Hey, PITB -

Obviously you don't like MIDI sounds (and that would have to include any and all applications, synthesizers, keyboards, soundcards, etc. that processes MIDI). So don't use MIDI. Just because it doesn't float your boat doesn't mean others shouldn't use it. If you don't like what others have done using MIDI, don't listen to them or buy them. That's your choice. If BIAB doesn't meet your needs, then move on and find something that does.

I just don't see what you're looking for here? What's your point?
_________________________
John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
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H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
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#81088 - 07/30/10 12:55 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: jford]
Playin In The Band Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/21/10
Posts: 89
Well I thought I might find people like myself who were using biab to record their music at home.

I heard Zan's song which I thought was good, just didnt think it sounded much different than doing a sequence of decent midi files.

People keep telling me how great it is, as ive said the only thing that sounded great was the company demos. If i couild get that sound id be 70% satisified. but nobody sounds like that, and ive loooked around. it's hard to find references because people usually dont state "here is my album, everything was done in biab"

so could be more around that I cant search for

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#81089 - 07/30/10 01:31 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Playin In The Band]
Robh Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4166
Loc: California
So what i have gathered so far is that you do not think that BiaB sounds like a real live band of professional musicians right? Well no stinking duh, it isn't.

Look If you can't play anything you are stuck with midi and audio looping type technology. Sorry, but Peter Gannon can not make you a grammy winner. he gave you and the rest of us a tool. How you use it and what results you get are up to you. Most of the song and demos you are critical, of are done by amatures, beginners, and regular guys who played in a band years ago, and just love making music in the "studio/3rd bedroom" There are a few here that play out live and make backing tracks with the software. Are they as good as a 5 piece real band, no, but still good enough for the purpose. They also come with far less problems, no differences of opinion, and no drama. Some of it is very nice. There are a few that use it to record albums, not entirely in BiaB mind you but a track bed is built there, and then processed in whatever DAW one likes. BiaB was never intended as a full recording studio, it is a arragement tool. The tracks are available to use as you have the skills.

If you go back to my link (JBG was not there it is on a different page), play "together they stand" All made in BiaB with the exception of the lead guitar, and vocals. Not perfect mind you but cleanly recorded. It has flaws for sure, but not canned sounding. I mixed it in a separate program. Could it be better, sure i could learn to play the piano, and not rely on a computer to generate that track, but hey i can't, so I used what is available.

This is what everyone is talking about, start with BiaB, but learn the whole gammet of tools. Heck if you are not a musician, of any sorts you have to learn to use some kind of instrument even if that is software. There is not program you can type in chords and out pops a platinum album. It takes a lot of work, and you sitting around critcizing other work does not get it done. If this program is not for you, and you feel you can not learn it well enough, ot gain some value, move on. I have heard some good music come out of this as a basis, i have heard some clunkers as well. There are a lot of folks out there that use this that do not post music here, and many who use it as a tool to work out stuff. If you can not make decent sounding music with this program, how do you expect to make it with anything else? You said you do not play all the instruments right? Well how you gonna get there? Humanize the midi track, use efects and other techniques to make it better. It's up to you.
_________________________
Toshiba dual core Win 7 8 gig ram, BiaB, Realband, Studio one Professional, Melodyne, Gibson S-1, Carvin 980 Cobalt acoustic, Ovation legend 12 string, jazz bass clone, Fender Mustang III amp, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL interface, TC Helicon voiceworks.

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