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#81090 - 07/30/10 01:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Robh]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13453
>>> it's hard to find references because people usually dont state "here is my album, everything was done in biab"

OK, if you're looking for "here is my album, everything was done in biab"... here ya go....

http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/showfl...true#Post214063

... and yes, this sounds better than our demos....
_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#81091 - 07/30/10 02:04 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Playin In The Band]
Ian Fraser Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/02/00
Posts: 1696
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
PITB

These RT Demos sound good, probably because each RT was recorded in a professional studio - not the demos. Maybe we the users tweak too much and we should leave the RTs alone. Midi is only as good as your synth. Hardware synths better than software. Midi gives more soloist/melodist flexibility. RTs at this point in time give less flexibility. Time-wise it's faster to edit midi, longer to edit RTs. Trade-offs, trade-offs - each has their strengths.

What are your goals? Make music? The more you worry about perfection, the less gets done. Why are you worried about the sound of the demos? If you think somebody is trying to sell you the impossible dream, then nothing anybody on the forum says will ever make a difference - you are who you are and that will probably never change. The software is what it is - accept it or not - everything else is really irrelevant, or the User's challenge.

Luck - Ian


Edited by Ian Fraser (07/30/10 02:05 PM)
_________________________
Ian
My "Original Tunes" Site
My gene pool needs more chlorine.

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#81092 - 07/30/10 02:26 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: PeterGannon]
Playin In The Band Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/21/10
Posts: 89
still hard to find references. He doesnt mention BIAB does he?

That's a pretty good sounding recording, really good actually, the sax sounds best which is the featured instrument sounds very big and rich.

The backing tracks also sound good, it's done well.

But you keep showing me jazz samples, this software was made with jazz and blues in mind because the music just has to follow the featured instrument.

This is a good sample but show me something with guitars and singing in the mix.

As a side note, there might be more people like me, who hear what they hear on this site and then scratch their head, you might wanna put up real examples like this and others to showcase what the program can do.

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#81093 - 07/30/10 02:32 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Playin In The Band]
Andrew - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 3772
Loc: Victoria, BC
Quote:

This is a good sample but show me something with guitars and singing in the mix.

As a side note, there might be more people like me, who hear what they hear on this site and then scratch their head, you might wanna put up real examples like this and others to showcase what the program can do.




Good suggestion. Thanks.
_________________________
Andrew
PG Music Inc.

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#81094 - 07/30/10 02:34 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Playin In The Band]
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13453

>> still hard to find references. He doesnt mention BIAB does he?

Yes, he does. Read the first line of the link ( http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/showfl...true#Post214063 ), where he says ...
"I've just recorded a CD on sax (and a bit of clarinet), using nothing but Band-in-a-box as backing"

>> As a side note, there might be more people like me, who hear what they hear on this site and then scratch their head, you might wanna put up real examples like this and others to showcase what the program can do.

Yes, a good idea, and we have added a User Showcase Forum recently.
_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#81095 - 07/30/10 02:42 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: PeterGannon]
silvertones Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7217
How'd I miss getting involved in this?
Mac which one is the troll?
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.Wintertexaninfo.com/Bands/JohnnyD.php

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#81096 - 07/30/10 04:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: silvertones]
Shockwave199 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 376
Loc: Long Island, NY
Playin in the band- I don't think you're on the wrong track with your inquiry. You're just misguided. And judging from your observations on how great the online demos are, your knowledge of a well put together chart and musical sound are of a beginner level. I don't mean that as a put-down mind you. But anyone who claims the demos are the best they've heard has limited knowledge of the whole process, and at the very least, the software itself.

First off, can we hear some of your work please? I don't take anyone particularly seriously when they say anything, claim anything, or give advice until I hear their work. Then I truly know where they are coming from musically.

But, you are right to question. It's no small chunk of change to buy this software. I guess you can buy the least expensive package, which isn't a ton of scratch. But the better packages are some bucks, for sure. And it's the bigger packages that offer the most flexibility right out of the box. I questioned this software, the sound of it, and the usefulness of it for my working style before I bought too. So, you're right to question. Where you run off the tracks is how you're reasoning it all out. I believe that's because you're a youngin. A kid.

Here's the difference between my reasoning before I bought, and yours.

- I questioned sound quality. I listened to the demos and heard the potential to sound great. The potential to augment my multitrack recordings. The potential to fit into a professional multitrack production. You hear the demos as the best it can sound and the best results the software can give you. Amusing, really- and very telling.

- I listened to other peoples work with the software to help balance my desicion. Another perspective, if you will. And I listened to a LOT of samples. But that didn't factor in at ALL to my desicion. That only tells me how good someone else is, not how good I CAN BE WITH IT. You listen to other peoples work and judge how good you'll be with it. Wrong. Again, telling. Great sounding work with biab is only really a reflection of how good THAT person is, not you. It CAN give you an idea of how good things can sound, true. It'd be nice to hear tons of amazing work, to help with a desicion right? But that trap is common to the inexperienced. Believe me when I tell you- the best of software will sound like ASS in the hands of the inexperienced. That goes for ANY software, or gear for that matter. The industry is chock full of people spending thousands of dollars for the next peice of gear or software that's gonna make their work sound amazing. Retailers depend on it! Truth is, only people with enough knowledge and experience realize that any software or gear is only an EXTENSION of their ability, and not the ability itself.

In the end you are actually right in a way. Biab isn't a magic bullet. It won't make you sound like a rock star all on it's own. Writing a chart and putting some instruments in it will not automatically make an awesome sounding product. It's simply another tool- a very powerful tool. Give it to someone with advanced talent, and they'll make an awesome sounding track. It has that potential. Not always by just using the program stock, but with integration with your own live tracks- assuming THOSE performances are good enough too. People with advanced skills don't base THEIR potential on demos! LOL! If you're observing enough, the potential with this software is obvious. Give it to someone with intermediate skills, and you can make a wonderful track. A real toe-tapper. It may not sound completely authentic. It may sound a bit ridgid. A bit forced. The mix may be questionable. This software gives enough power to hang yourself quite frankly, at the intermediate level. The power REALLY comes in at the beginner level. These folks can't even play an instrument. They can't fathom what the first chord in a piece of music should be, let alone the next. And yet with this software, they can make a song. For many people that's where the true joy is- just creating music. Not grammy worthy music. Just music. Their OWN music. That's the beauty of what biab has become now, and where it's headed. It's absolutely useful for seasoned pros, and a godsend for beginners. Kudos PG.

If you want to make rock or pop records and you can't hear the potential of biab to help you in that cause, the answer is actually very simple. Get yourself a rockin band, rehearse your asses off, hit record, and make a record. No body is twisting your arm to buy this software. If you think it could help you, give it a spin. But if you think biab alone will make you an amazing recording artist, or sound like an unblieveable mixing engineer, or automatically pop out grammy winning results, you are, as I believe you to be, an inexperienced youngster. Whether biab will get you where you want to be is completely up to YOUR ability.

Good luck.

Dan
_________________________
My songs [newest being BIAB work]- http://www.songramp.com/homepage.php?userid=1621

My YT Channel- http://www.youtube.com/user/dfizzbom

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#81097 - 07/30/10 05:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Shockwave199]
Playin In The Band Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/21/10
Posts: 89
I think compared to what people here are doing with BIAB, the company demos are great. They are not great for what they bring musically, just the sound of the tracks sound far and above better than anything ive heard here. Thats all I said. And Im wondering why.

If that makes me misguided, so be it.

My knowledge of charts has nothing to do with that perspective, I dont chart anything...i'm a singer songwriter of a rock persuation. The rolling stones don't chart...lol...Stevie Ray Vaugn doesn't chart.

Any singer songwriter stuff ive ever heard using BIAB always sounded mechanical,
but it works for jazz music the best.

I also play blues guitar and I can see the value of the program for that.

But rememeber as misguided as you may think I am, im buying the program for me, not for you. It's what I think it will do for me, and im trying to find that out.

And what you say about begginners getting the most benefit, that is the most on spot thing u've said yet. There is no question that if you dont know anything about music, you wont make anything worth while, but you might make something that SOUNDS good, if the SOUNDS are really there. I mean all you need is two chords going back and forth to SOUND good. Play Twsit and Shout by The Beatles C F G, and it should SOUND good, You got one guitar, a bass, drums and Piano...it should SOUND good, but not everybody is SOUNDING good using BIAB.

I write songs, tons. I want to record them. I play guitar and can program EZ drummer. I can buy a bass and fake my way on bass, I can fake my way on Piano
or I can get somebody to play on everything I write. We're talking lots of money, time and reliance on other people.

And at 40 years old, who puts an ad in the papaer saying "Guy looking for form original band" YEAHHH LEts get a record DeaLLLL lol

Im looking to be in charge of my own music and recordings.

Musical Knowledge has nothing to do with it. The Ramones wrote great, and I mean GREAT pop songs, and they knew three chords.

If you think it doesn't take skill to write great pop/rock songs i believe u may be the misguided one.

But we'll argue about that later.

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#81098 - 07/30/10 06:07 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Shockwave199]
CarlosEArellano Offline
Productor Musical

Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 786
Loc: Venezuela
Cita:

Truth is, only people with enough knowledge and experience realize that any software or gear is only an EXTENSION of their ability, and not the ability itself.




Dan, you are my day hero This sentence deserves to be carved in metal at the welcome plate of each software corporation in the world.

Carlos
_________________________
Carlos Eduardo Arellano
www.carlosarellano.com/music

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#81099 - 07/30/10 06:21 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: CarlosEArellano]
Playin In The Band Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/21/10
Posts: 89
Well then why dont all artists use BIAB to release their albums?

Surely bob Dylan has proven himself to be one of the worlds great songwriters, Band In A BOX would only then be an extension of his ability, I havent seen him relesae an album using BIAB yet, but it may be coming, due to this post.

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#81100 - 07/30/10 07:26 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Playin In The Band]
Robh Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4166
Loc: California
"Surely bob Dylan has proven himself to be one of the worlds great songwriters, Band In A BOX would only then be an extension of his ability, I havent seen him relesae an album using BIAB yet, but it may be coming, due to this post."

That is the sillyist thing i have ever heard. Bob Dylan is a long time professional musician, who records in a pro studio with a group of very talented musicians. You are a one instrument player who has no one else to play with, like a lot of us, we play alone. Most of us have limited talent. I play the guitar and the bass, and a little piano, and a little drums. But i do not play all of them well enough to turn out high end stuff. Evidently you are in the same boat.

If you want to be a singer song writer, you can play the guitar, fake the bass and piano, and program EZ drummer, or use a program like BiaB to build the track base, drums and piano, and bass and overdub guitar tracks to it and sing over it. The problem is that if you are a mediocre bass and piano player, you will get less than stellar results. So if the BiaB tracks are a tad mechanical, that is still usually better than poorly played and badly recorded tracks. I think you are being a way bit over critical of some of the music on this site. Sure most of the tracks are less than commercial grade, but some of the tracks are fairly decent. Most of these folks if they were to really have the desire they could mix and master the stuff and get better results.

Guys Like Carlos., Mike the Sax dude, and a few others can make great tracks. That proves it can be done. I remember this same old tired conversation over Loop based recording at Acidplanet.com, and the same over midi at cakewalk. Tools do not build a house carpenters do.

My suggestion for you is to prove it to. Make some great rock tracks. Hone your skills! Or muddle thru some average skill played bass piano, and programmed drum track and live with that.
_________________________
Toshiba dual core Win 7 8 gig ram, BiaB, Realband, Studio one Professional, Melodyne, Gibson S-1, Carvin 980 Cobalt acoustic, Ovation legend 12 string, jazz bass clone, Fender Mustang III amp, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL interface, TC Helicon voiceworks.

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#81101 - 07/30/10 08:00 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Robh]
Playin In The Band Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/21/10
Posts: 89
"Surely bob Dylan has proven himself to be one of the worlds great songwriters, Band In A BOX would only then be an extension of his ability, I havent seen him relesae an album using BIAB yet, but it may be coming, due to this post."

That is the sillyist thing i have ever heard. Bob Dylan is a long time professional musician, who records in a pro studio with a group of very talented musicians. You are a one instrument player who has no one else to play with, like a lot of us, we play alone. Most of us have limited talent. I play the guitar and the bass, and a little piano, and a little drums. But i do not play all of them well enough to turn out high end stuff. Evidently you are in the same boat.


So what you saying is that you can't get professional track recordings with BIAB. Bob Dylan doesnt play bass does he? I dont know he plays Piano either. He needs bass and Paino on his songs too.

If BIAB was as good as a real band, he could save money using BIAB.

I know im being facetious, but many real musicians wont respect somebody who releases an album using BIAB tracks. But many do acknoweldged BIAB as a good tool.

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#81102 - 07/30/10 09:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Playin In The Band]
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 13312
Loc: Australia
Hi PITB,

You've certainly done your homework. I've got to say that I really admire your thoroughness. My advice to you is, "if in doubt, don't". As many have already said, a tool is only as good as the person who uses it. If, after all your questions and investigations, you cannot see how to use BIAB in your particular circumstances then, to my way of thinking, that means that BIAB is not for you at this point in time; maybe one day it will be.

All the best with your songwriting,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#81103 - 07/31/10 12:35 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Playin In The Band]
RayThigpen Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 1942
Loc: Georgia

A person's mind, changed against his will, is of the same opinion still.

Why even bother with this one....



Mac had the best idea.

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#81104 - 07/31/10 01:06 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: RayThigpen]
Playin In The Band Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/21/10
Posts: 89
yes indeed, but it's still possible you will change your mind.

Mac was wrong, why ignore somebody cause they disagree with you.

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#81105 - 07/31/10 01:34 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: RayThigpen]
critter Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 630
Loc: Wisconsin
Amen and Amen.............Ignore what is unworthy, and go with the truth, that is, with PG Music..........It is what it is and we at the forum saw that it was good..............Amen
_________________________
Critter

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#81106 - 07/31/10 01:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: critter]
Playin In The Band Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/21/10
Posts: 89
Mighty harsh words, calling somebody you dont know unworthy. Where did you earn the right to call anybody unworthy?

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#81107 - 07/31/10 06:29 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Playin In The Band]
MartinB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 4855
There is this story of those guys -> a mathematician, a sociologist and an engineer sitting in a train riding through some foreign country. Looking out of the window, they get aware of a lonely black sheep grazing calmly on a lush meadow. The sociologist infers that in this country likely all sheep are black ... whereas the engineer concludes sharply -> wait - you may just say that in this country at least one sheep is black. Now the mathematician smiles and states, well - thoroughly you may just infer that in this country at least one sheep is black on one side ...

Ya' know, critter never stated that you are unworthy. It's seemingly just his opinion that s.th. posted here seems unworthy ... (whatever that means)
_________________________
Martin

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#81108 - 07/31/10 08:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Playin In The Band]
the_blooze Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 204
Loc: Springhill,Nova Scotia, Canada
Best piece of advice I ever got:

Never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man!

I hope this is taken in the lighthearted manner in which its meant.
_________________________
Andrew Lloyd

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#81109 - 07/31/10 12:07 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: How Come The Demos... [Re: Playin In The Band]
rich in ca Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 104
Just in case you are not merely an antagonist...
Kenny G or the like = smooth jazz
Al Dimeola, Chick Corea and the like = jazz fusion

As for your reluctance to post your work(s), supposedly due fear of unfair critique from the forum, let us know when Al Dimeola invites you to 'Play in the Band'

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