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#91884 - 11/21/10 01:40 PM [RealBand] patches.ini
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
I don't remember ever making an effort to setup a .PAT file for BIAB or a PATCHES.INI file for real band... but I noticed a few days ago that all the patch maps from my Sonar MASTER.INS file have appeared in my PATCHES.INI file. Please tell me that RB searches for sonar's master.ins file and imports it automatically so I don't have to consider the implications of having a memory that doesn't remember setting it up.

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#91885 - 11/21/10 03:02 PM [RealBand] Re: patches.ini [Re: Pat Marr]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
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Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
No automatic search.



--Mac
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#91886 - 11/21/10 04:48 PM [RealBand] Re: patches.ini [Re: Mac]
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18807
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA


Welcome to 'sometimers'
You CAN have RB use Sonar patch maps, but it isn't automatic as far as I know either.
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#91887 - 11/21/10 05:51 PM [RealBand] Re: patches.ini [Re: rharv]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

:)

Welcome to 'sometimers'
You CAN have RB use Sonar patch maps, but it isn't automatic as far as I know either.




ah, THAT'S what it was... I do vaguely recall clicking ACTION/CONVERT PATCH MAP FROM CAKEWALK or some such command a lonnng time ago. Now I remember that I couldn't figure out how to access the new patches, so I gave up and moved on to something else.

The failing memory isn't good, but MAN! Having access to all the other banks of patches sure is! I have 13 banks of 127 patches each which equals 1,651 patches.

It has always been a vexation to search through all of them for the right patch, since the various libraries are a mix of instruments, and there might be similar patches scattered across all 13 banks.

Now that I see how the patches.ini file works, I think I'll remap the patches under menus for each instrument. That way all the strings will be together, all the pianos will be together, etc

After a little playing, I must say that the ability to use more than the GM patches really adds a lot to BIAB... especially in techno, new age and dance genres where there are so many specialized patches in the upper banks

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#91888 - 11/21/10 06:33 PM [RealBand] Re: patches.ini [Re: Pat Marr]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
FWIW,
I had to edit the patches.ini file to get it to work in Real Band... what was generated by the conversion from sonar's format to RB's format did not work. (however, it *DID* work in BIAB)

What was generated looked like this:

[Roland XV-3080 BANK F]
1,87,69=PR-F:001 80s Retrosyn
2,87,69=PR-F:002 Power Stack
3,87,69=PR-F:003 Don't Jump
4,87,69=PR-F:004 Big Bubbles

that's
patch number,MSB,LSB=text description of the patch

It wouldn't work until I changed everything to this format:

(Bank 87)
(BankLSB 69)
[Roland XV-3080 BANK F]
1=PR-F:001 80s Retrosyn
2=PR-F:002 Power Stack
3=PR-F:003 Don't Jump
4=PR-F:004 Big Bubbles

however, that format worked for the devices that had zeroes for MSB and LSB

[Voiceworks]
1,0,0=1 Mix_Hit Vocals
2,0,0=2 Mix_Vibrato Synch
3,0,0=3 Mix_Barbershop
4,0,0=4 Mix_Church Choir
5,0,0=5 Mix_Subtle Lead

(this worked)


Edited by Pat Marr (11/22/10 05:20 AM)

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#91889 - 11/22/10 05:52 AM [RealBand] Re: patches.ini [Re: Pat Marr]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
I take it back... the changes I made DIDN'T work... they only got the menu to populate with patch names.

Whether I put the MSB or the LSB first, the list still populates with patch names, but in both cases picking a patch from the list executes the GM patch of the same number. It's as though the MSB and LSB are totally disregarded, because there are no red flags if I present them incorrectly. This must be a RB bug, because the same MSB and LSB properly change patches in BIAB, so the synth accepts it. I'm wondering if the problem lies with RBs "compile to binary"


The problem appears to be four-fold:

1) the first is that the .ini file generated by RB puts all the banks under one [header] but the menu will only display 128 patches under a header... the rest get dropped from the list

2) the RB menu does not LIST The patches in the pick box when they are formatted in the usual way, unless BOTH the LSB and MSB are zero. If either MSB or LSB column has a value besides zero, there will be no patches in the pick list.

3) after I reformat to get a menu list, it treats the menu list as general midi

4) you can forget the (bank x) and (BankLSB x), they seem to be totally disregarded

I'm still using version 2009.5, it's possible that this is fixed in newer versions.

Is anybody out there successfully using a patches.ini file in Real Band ?

Can somebody with version 10.5 or a beta tester for version 11 test what I'm saying and let me know if it works for them?

(continuing to experiment)


Edited by Pat Marr (11/22/10 07:04 AM)

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#91890 - 11/22/10 07:29 AM [RealBand] Re: patches.ini [Re: Pat Marr]
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
OK, if a beta tester is willing to help me, here's a specific test you can perform:

1) using notepad, find and open PATCHES.INI in the main RealBand directory
2) keep it open and then open RB
3) go to track screen, click on a midi track and
4) right click > patch select dialog
5) 1ST test: scroll down in the PATCHES.INI FILE under the General Midi 2 heading, and find the following:

127= Applause
128= Gunshot
(Bank 121)
(BankLSB 0)
49= 60s Strings
85= Lead5a (Wire Lead)

6) go back to Real Band, and look at the patch dialog under general Midi 2. Are there more patches listed after "gunshot?" If not, then everything after the 1st 128 are still being dropped.

7) Close RB and edit your patches.ini by inserting the following lines as shown:

[TEST]
1,0,0=patch one
2,0,0=patch two
3,0,0=patch three

Reopen RB so it compiles the INI file
Go to track mode and look at your patch select dialog box... you should see the new [TEST] header and see the patch names because both MSB and LSB are zero


8) Now, Close RB again and edit your patches.ini as follows:
(change either zero to a 1)
[TEST]
1,0,1=patch one
2,0,1=patch two
3,0,1=patch three

Reopen RB so it compiles the INI file
Go to track mode and look at your patch select dialog box... this time you will have a header, but no patches (unless it has been fixed)

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#91891 - 11/24/10 10:24 AM [RealBand] Re: patches.ini [Re: rharv]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Welcome to 'sometimers'





<tongue-in-cheek>

I may have a bad memory... but hey! at least I don't have a bad memory!

</tongue-in-cheek>

;-)

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#91892 - 11/24/10 03:17 PM [RealBand] Re: patches.ini [Re: Pat Marr]
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7212
Pat,
You're not doing it right. Read the instructions with the .ini file carefully.I've inserted part of what I did. You insert the upper bank stuff after the default stuff. Here I inserted your test after the GM default. Note the required format to get this to work. It'll work in yours I know cause I went through this a long time ago.What you do is convert the Sonar .ins file to a .pat file using BIAB then convert the .pat file to a .ini file using :action/convert.....

124=Bird Tweet
125=Telephone Ring
126=Helicopter
127=Applause
128=Gunshot

[TEST]
(Bank 121)
(BankLSB 0)
1=one
2=two
3=three
[General MIDI Drum kits]

1=Standard Drum Kit
9=Room Drum Kit
_________________________
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#91893 - 11/25/10 12:07 AM [RealBand] Re: patches.ini [Re: silvertones]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Hi Tones,

thanks for taking time to offer some ideas.

Quote:

Pat,
You're not doing it right.




;-) apparently that's the story of my life, in a nutshell

Quote:


Read the instructions with the .ini file carefully.I've inserted part of what I did. You insert the upper bank stuff after the default stuff. Here I inserted your test after the GM default. Note the required format to get this to work. It'll work in yours I know cause I went through this a long time ago.What you do is convert the Sonar .ins file to a .pat file using BIAB then convert the .pat file to a .ini file using :action/convert.....

124=Bird Tweet
125=Telephone Ring
126=Helicopter
127=Applause
128=Gunshot

[TEST]
(Bank 121)
(BankLSB 0)
1=one
2=two
3=three
[General MIDI Drum kits]

1=Standard Drum Kit
9=Room Drum Kit




I did all that, exactly like your example. I did get the patch names to show up in the pick box by putting the MSB/LSB in parentheses... but clicking on the patch name always activated the GM patch , not the upper bank patch of the same number

In all my tests, the stuff I entered was AFTER the default stuff
I Converted my INS file (it worked in BIAB but not RB)
I also downloaded a patch map for my synth from the PGMusic site
I Changed the order of the banks in order from low to high, and from high to low.
I Tried sending the MSB/LSB in parentheses and then in the same line as the patch.
(haven't tried both yet at the same time)
I Tried changing the commas to periods.
I Tried adding additional headers.
I Tried changing the lowercase to caps, and then caps to lowercase
I broke out the synth manual to double check the MSB/LSB (the conversion program got some of them wrong.. they worked in BIAB after I set them the same as the manual)

I don't think the problem is with the patch map anymore. It had some problems, but I think they are all fixed now. The fact that the same patch map works in BIAB is proof enough to me that it is presenting the right info to the synth. Othjerwise, BIAB wouldn't work either.

The problem with RB is that the patches don't show up in the pick box when I click on the bank name. The list is empty. But if THE ONLY CHANGE I MAKE to the INI file is to set the MSB/LSB to zero, then the patch names appear. I contend that isn't a problem with the INI file, that is a problem with the dialog box in my version (2009.5)


Edited by Pat Marr (11/25/10 11:57 AM)

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#91894 - 11/25/10 07:26 AM [RealBand] Re: patches.ini [Re: Pat Marr]
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18807
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
The patch map I sent you worked in PT12 RB2009 and 2010
_________________________
Make your sound your own!

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#91895 - 11/25/10 11:52 AM [RealBand] Re: patches.ini [Re: rharv]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7508
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

The patch map I sent you worked in PT12 RB2009 and 2010




Hmmm...I just overwrote my patches.ini file with the one you sent. All it does here is give me a file list of your base GM patches. Only one new menu header is created (JUNO) and when I click on that header only 128 patches are displayed.

There are no other indications in the menu of more patches. I sent screen shots by return mail so you can see what I'm seeing.

If it works on your current version, I will stop trying to fix it in my current version and just wait for v. 2011. I've already notified the family that the only item on my Christmas wish list is the BIAB upgrade.


BTW, thanks for taking time to help.. I really do appreciate it.


Edited by Pat Marr (11/25/10 11:56 AM)

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