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eddie1261 #463076 03/20/18 03:12 AM
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I always check the mix in mono before panning, and at low volume. If it works that way, it will work when separated.

And no, I don't want a subwoofer, too much to schlep.


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Notes Norton #463090 03/20/18 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
I always check the mix in mono before panning, and at low volume. If it works that way, it will work when separated.

And no, I don't want a subwoofer, too much to schlep.





Suit yourself. We found it beneficial.


Regards,

Bob

rharv #463110 03/20/18 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: rharv
by definition MONO means everything is centered


I always defined mono as "the same thing coming from both sides". So you can still pan instruments, just not route them to discrete left and right on the main mix. Like an interface has a switch to go from mono to stereo so if you have an instrument plugged into the left you can switch it and hear it in both ears..... That is really splitting hairs vis a vis this thread topic, but it is there just the same.

So I THINK (dangerous when I do that) I know what he means by a mono send of a stereo mix.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
eddie1261 #463206 03/20/18 12:26 PM
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I used Reaper which has a mono button on the master. For example, I have bass and drums in the middle, a piano 20% either left or right the two guitars on 70% right one about 70% left. All sounds fine in stereo then push the mono button sound becomes much thinner. Swap the sides of the guitars or maybe move the piano the overall mono sound becomes more solid. When going back to stereo the various parts seem to have better definition and I feel I have most of what I want in mono.

I do this as sometimes I use other people's PA equipment when performing and I could lose one side of the mix or the gear is mono.

How Reaper treats the mono I am unclear about.

Tony


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eddie1261 #463227 03/20/18 01:49 PM
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A slight change in a stereo mix can be noticed in MONO afterwards, .. I think I see what you are saying now.
Mainly caused by the perceived volume/EQ in the end result more than the 'panning'. Reverb and such would come into play to.
(note panning is Subject of this Topic)
Guess I didn't follow the flow of the thread. Now I see you are A/B comparing stereo to MONO, which is different than what I thought I read.

An earlier post sounded like there was 'stereo mixing' going on using a MONO signal, which is indeed what threw me. That made no sense.
/missed it by that much

Last edited by rharv; 03/20/18 02:07 PM.

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rharv #463232 03/20/18 02:10 PM
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Rharv, it is most likely the way I put it.

Tony


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90 dB #463370 03/21/18 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted By: 90 dB
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
I always check the mix in mono before panning, and at low volume. If it works that way, it will work when separated.

And no, I don't want a subwoofer, too much to schlep.





Suit yourself. We found it beneficial.


Regards,

Bob

I used to carry one, it was big, heavy, and I could pump bass like a DJ, but I mostly play to an elderly crowd, one that does not want the boom boom of a disco. My E-V ZXL15P speakers pump out plenty of bass, and enough for the audience I am pitching my wares to. I've had a house gig for 10 years, and have been playing for others 20 years or more a few times per year. Last week I had one day off, this week two - all one-nighters. I don't need to schlep a sub. YMMV

Insights and incites by Notes


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eddie1261 #463439 03/21/18 03:45 PM
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Regarding “too much to schlep” my grandson’s Boy Scout group had a live 5 piece band at it’s fundraiser dinner this weekend. After they finished playing they were rolling cords and hauling equipment for an hour! I don’t miss those days at all.
The most I bring now is a Fender 150 Passport and at 35-40 pounds that is enough for me as far as sound reinforcement and weight. Of course at the age of 76 I am often the youngest person in the room at my performances.
I create all of my BIAB songs in stereo because the 150 is stereo and I can fine tune the sound to the room.

eddie1261 #463521 03/22/18 02:34 AM
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It takes Leilani and I about an hour to set up. I thought about an all-in-one PA set like a Passport but it won't work for our situation.

The PA fits in a 10 space rack with a mixer, BBE Sonic Maximizer (makes a BIG difference), 4 sound modules (for our synths), and an FX unit. Plus two E-V ZLX-15P speakers @ 38 lbs each.

The instruments are two guitars, one Tactile Midi Controller, one Percussion Controller, one Tenor sax, one Flute and two Wind Midi Controllers.

Plus 3 laptop computers (we only need two, but one is up and running as a fail-safe 'the gig must go on' spare).

There are two of us to schlep so the work is cut in half - and 'they' say that weight bearing exercise is good for people 'our age'. wink

I could lighten the load by not taking as many instruments, but then gigging wouldn't be as much fun. I like playing the guitar, sax, wind synth, and flute. Sometimes I wish I brought a keyboard or my bass (ain't gonna happen).

And to get back on topic, 'panning' center (running in mono) is essential. Often we play dinner sets before the dance sets, running at about 65db (A weighted, slow response) and with the speakers set wide, a guest sitting on either edge of the room would not be able to hear one of the channels.

I decided this a long time ago while sitting in a pizza restaurant in a shopping center. They used those ceiling speakers for their background music. We sat at the front of the restaurant and could only hear one channel. I missed some of the parts of the songs I was familiar with that were panned to the back of the restaurant. OK I'm weird, I actually listen to the background music, but I figure there are other weirdos out there.

Sometimes we'll play parties and put one speaker in the clubhouse and another out the door by the pool.

In many odd rooms that we play, I might have to turn one channel down because of the close proximity to an audience member, and the other speaker near the dance floor.

Mono makes my life easier, and for a balanced sound for the audience, whether they are in the sweet spot or the peripherals.

Now if I was mixing for someone listening with earbuds or at home on a stereo system, I'd pan in stereo.

Insights and incites by Notes


Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
Notes Norton #463531 03/22/18 03:31 AM
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Quote:
OK I'm weird, I actually listen to the background music, but I figure there are other weirdos out there.
I must be one of them. Don't laugh. I'm guilty of listening to elevator music. I actually enjoy a lot of it. I think about the skill of the musicians, the recording studio, who composed it, the sound engineer, how it was produced. So I'm guilty, because I listen to this stuff also. Despite what others might think about background music, I don't think that makes 'real musicians' viewpoints on background music too weird at all wink .


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