Hi all,

I'm trying to get triplets in a 4/4 song, with a 6/4 feel.
The style is Bolero, so the default feel is ev8.

I'm struggling to get a presentation that's clear. I can set to 12/8 time, but the triplets are then a wrong size and appalling to read.

Can it be done in BiaB, and if so, how please?

I may have confirmed my suspicion.

I created the scone anew in MuseScore.3, exported to MusicXML and opened the MusicXML in BiaB. The timing seems about right, but the notation looks awful.

Ho Hum.

Gordon,

In your first post, where did you do that notation?

--Noel

I didn't, it's a lead-sheet the band-leader sent.

I did, though, recreate it accurately in MuseScore so I could make the MusicXML.

The one sent to me does look quite a lot like it also may have been made in MuseScore, but I couldn't say for sure. It looks like the default font, but I usually use a 'hand written' looking font.

I tend to use MuseScore for notation, rather than BiaB. I'm much more familiar with it, I know the main hot-keys and can work quite quickly. For me, most things in the BiaB notation editor seem arcane and perverse. Others like it, so it's obviously a familiarity thing. I guess I should stop saying "I could have finished this ages ago" and get on with learning it properly.

I've always thought that the notation in BiaB is more of a convenience than a notation app. Probably because of the underlying structure of BiaB that was adopted long before notation was added.

Plus, I've done some unorthodox things to get a song to sound right that would confuse the hell out of a notation app. But it made the song sound good, and that's what counts to me.

To Peter's credit, back-compatibility has always been a priority, which I prefer to the upgrade-or-die approach some other publishers use. But there are pros and cons to that approach, and notation is one of the cons.

I can't help you with your problem. The way I would tackle this problem would e to start from scratch, entering what I want into a notation app. It's time-consuming, yes, but you can get the results you need.

If there is a better way, I'd like to know about it.


Insights and incites by Notes ♫

I would like to have a try at this. Since there are several Bolero ev8 styles that show up in the filter, which one are you using? And then please give the steps you follow to "set it to 12/8 time".

Actually I find it quicker to enter the score in my notation program and then export and open in BiaB. Where it can become frustrating is when I start from an SGU, because I still have to enter the chords again, though I haven't tried exporting MusicXML from BiaB and importing that into MuseScore. I'll try that sometime.

With the Bolero and similar styles ev8, the notation editor starts with 16 16th note positions and I click the time-line above and set that beat to 3/4. I think I can put notes in the right places for the 6/4 feel, but I get a clumsy mix or note times, that also prints differently on the leadsheet. Pics attached.

Hopefully you'll find my lead-sheet ++ Here ++

Edit: BTW, I did put the first half of the triplet in in 3/4 time per beat, but that reverted after I set the final beat to 3/4.

OK, I got the lead sheet.

Now, what is your goal? To make the song sound correct in BIAB with a 6/4 feel, to read the song on the screen while playing along, or to use BIAB to print out the song? Since you use MuseScore, I'm hoping the first, in which case it doesn't matter what it looks like in the BIAB display. But if the BIAB notes displaying or printing correctly are important to you, I'll try something.

Hi Matt,

To get it to sound right in BiaB.
The MuseSore->MusicXML->BiaB route seems to work fine for that.

I guess in part I was trying to use BiaB's notation on an SGU I had, but it's easier, for me at least, to just start over for a lead-sheet.

Don't worry about trying to find a BiaB way ... your answer in the Wish list gives the same answer as my conclusion. FWIW, looking at some other parts of what BiaB had done, I get the impression that the notation is actually driven from the MIDI and/or piano-role. I found I also had rests dropped and preceding notes held. I've learned better how to adjust notation now.

I can get it to look right and play correctly in BIAB, but I need to know what style you used. I used the style that came up when I searched for bolero & jazz, and found Bayamo. The song sounds nice, by the way.

See if this helps:

In Editable Notation Mode, I entered the melody notes on the grid, not particularly worrying about where, then edited the start of the timing of the second and third notes of the triplet. Since the first note was 'late', at beat 3 tick 2, I made the next note beat 3 tick 82, then the final note beat 4 tick 42. That makes it sound correct, but it still looks a mess.

The final step is to click on Opt and select Triplet resolution. I did it this way rather than have to do so measure by measure. The triplets appear correct on screen.

Gordon,

I did the below in BIAB.

As you can see in the image, the timing needs to be set to "Triplet resolution (swing)", under the OPT menu, so that there are three sub-divisions per beat. Once that's done, if you add notes on the 1st and 3rd location of the first group of three and the 2nd location of the second group of three, you will get the 1/4 note triplets. Whether or not the triplet resolution works well for the rest of the song will need to be tested. It is possible to set individual beats to any number of sub-divisions. This is achieved by right-clicking on the vertical beat marker that sits on top of the staves in Notation Editor.

Hope this helps,
Noel

Yes, BIAB often has a few ways of doing things. But I would still like to try using Gordon’s choice of style to see if anything works differently.

The style that it has at present and I guess was the one I was using at the time is _CBOSBOL

It appears that I should perhaps try more styles when doing this. I've just tried _BAYAMO with a similar result.

I searched for a specific 6/8 and tried -68_BOS+ and that does give the notation I'd like/expect.

I guess there's the usual type of question going in here that one sees with swing. Does one write 'swing' at the start and set the song to swing timing, or does one write, e.g., 8th+16th pairs.

Edit: I guess that counts as resolved.
Though sadly it still doesn't give the triplet notation from the MusicXML.

Thanks. Yes, that’s why I wanted to see what style you were using.

Yes, of course.
I hadn't originally even considered that the style itself might have been part of the equation.

Actually it does if I apply the same style again.
I notice the notation window is now set to triplet divisions for every beat, despite the style being ev8. There must be a setting somerwhere for this.

There is. Before Noel showed how to do it by beat, I showed how to do it globally. One of the main characteristics of a style is whether it is Even or Swing. Regardless, you can use the Opt., Triplet Resolution to flip the way the notation is handled.

So you did ... I missed it there and also couldn't see it on the Opt dialog, despite (or perhaps because) it being right near the top left.

Doh!

Edit: Noel's way was the way I'd been trying to do it, but it wasn't really behaving in this case.

Using the beat-by-beat method Noel showed is probably more sensible when you only have a few triplet situations in a song.

The whole issue comes down to a choice PG Music made decades ago that a style is either even or swing, and consequences flow from that choice. At least there are ways around it.