I play Eb Alto sax and want to enter the chords from my sheet music written for Eb alto. The key signature is G or Bb concert. I want to enter them as written on my sheet music, then be able to practice the chords along with the rhythm track on BIAB. Should be simple but I'm missing something. Need help. Thanks.
Set the 'Key Signature of Song" to the concert key of the song.
In the Notation window, hit the 'Opt.' button and in the resulting 'Notation Options' window, make sure the 'Transpose Options' are set to 'Alto Sax +9'.
Go to the Chord Window and enter the chords that appear on your Alto sax sheet music.
Set the other requirements such as the style and the number of bars and choruses.
Push Play. You can display either Eb or concert chords while playing back. The actual key will be the proper concert pitch.
Thanks Graham, that works. The +9 is the patch to transpose the pitch to Eb alto is that correct?
For me to get your steps to work, There seems to be an extra step needed after the above...hit the P (practice) button in about the middle of the screen and set the transposition to Concert. Then the notation will work for Eb alto.
Correct, but it also places any notes (as opposed to chords) you may wish to enter in the correct place on the staff.
You will find the setting 'Alto Sax + 9' on the drop down menu inside the 'Notation Options Window', 'Transpose Options'.
This is also the way to print out lead sheets for all the other members of the band.
For Philandre, This has nothing to so with the 'P' button Practice Window. That is another way of achieving the same thing but I don't use it - too many entries.
Quote:
Set the 'Key Signature of Song" to the concert key of the song.
Go to the Chord Window and enter the chords that appear on your Alto sax sheet music.
Set the other requirements such as the style and the number of bars and choruses.
Push Play. You can display either Eb or concert chords while playing back. The actual key will be the proper concert pitch.
Sorry for the additional question but I am a novice at BIAB (and also at music in general). I am transposing for a Bb trumpet and using the trumpet+2 (as you stated) worked great. But I don't understand what the additional above steps are for? I need to print out music for the horn as well as the rest of us C instruments.
Do you say yes or no when asked if you want to transpose when entering the key signature?
Philandre,
If you say "yes" to transpose, any chords and notes you have already entered will be raised or lowered accordingly.
If you have not entered any notes or chords yet then it does not matter.
Saying "no" is useful if you want to correct a key signature. Say you entered chords for a tune in Eb, then you notice the key signature is still in C. In that case you would want to keep the chords as you entered them, so change the key signature to Eb and you say "no" to transpose.
Jim
wooliewillie,
Regarding the "additional steps": They are not necessary because you can change the notation for a transposing instrument, and change it back again, in either of two ways.
Graham described one way, using Preferences > Notation > Transpose Options. You can use the same method to change the notation back to concert pitch.
I think it is actually much easier to use the "P" Practice button. You just click the instrument you want to transpose the notation for, and you are done. You can also use the 8va and 8vb buttons there to adjust the notation to fit the range of the instrument.
Note 1: The key signature dropdown is always in concert pitch.
Note 2: With older versions of BB you had to enter chords in concert pitch only. I was pleasently pleased when I first found out that I could enter chords from the saxophone notation without transposing them in my head first to concert pitch.
Jim
Jim, as far back as I can remember (early 1990s), BIAB has always allowed you to set the key signature, enter the chords from a sax leadsheet or any other transposing instrument, and then change the key signature to compensate and produce a version in concert key. It's just that there is a lot better documentation now, with other ways to handle it.
I have version 2008. Do your comments still apply?
OK now I'm really confused. Let me summarize exactly what I am trying to do:
1. I have a tune in the alto key of G (Bb concert). I want to practice it.
2. The first 4 chords are: C7, C7, G6, G6....
3. I have version 2008 of BIAB
4. All I am trying to do is enter the above chords so the notation in the chord window is the same as my sheet music and the pitch is correct for my Eb alto sax. This process is simply intended to allow me to practice improvising on the tune's chord sequence.
I know this should be a simple thing to do but my head is about to explode.
Philandre
I'm fairly sure you could do this with version 2008:
Opt., Preferences, Notation, set Transpose to +5
Why? See below.
Type in your chords C7 C7 | G6 G6 etc. as written for the alto part in G
Opt., Preferences, Notation, set Transpose to -9
Read the correct chords for alto sax. Should be E7 E7 | B6 B6
Opt., Preferences, Notation, set Transpose to 0
Save the song. It is now in concert pitch for the next time you need it.
_____________________________________________________
Where did I get the number, +5?
An alto flute in G sounds 5 half-steps below concert pitch, so to compensate, write it 5 half-steps higher.
Do a similar change for alto sax, which sounds 9 half-steps lower than concert pitch, so compensate by writing it 9 half-steps higher.
The Transpose pull-down has a setting for alto sax and many common instruments, but not for alto flute or other G instrument, so you have to enter that number +5 rather than use the pull-down.
_____________________________________________________
Here's an even easier way to do it:
Set the key signature of the song to Bb.
Enter your song for the alto instrument in G.
Change the key signature pull-down to D. Say YES to "OK to Transpose Worksheet" prompt.
Why "D"?
To go from a G instrument to an Eb instrument, you go down 4 half-steps. To compensate, take the key of Bb, and go up 4 half-steps to D.
Not to change the subject but why are horn parts not written in the actual key? Seems odd to me.
Some actually are written in concert pitch. A trombone, for example,is a Bb instrument but music for it is written in C, bass clef.
It normally has to do with the harmonic series of the instrument.
A great advantage to having transposing instruments can be easily shown with the saxophone family. A note is (almost always) fingered the same way on each type of sax. If it were otherwise, I would have to learn different fingerings for the alto versus the tenor sax. This would be a nightmare when switching off.
There's much more to it, of course, but that's a very brief overview.
Quote:
If it were otherwise, I would have to learn different fingerings for the alto versus the tenor sax.
And yet recorder players have no difficulty switching between the fingerings for F and C instruments ;-}
Thanks for the information, unfortunately neither really worked for me with an alto sax in Eb, with version 2008. I think I have the solution which I think was suggested already:
1. Set the key to Bb, the concert key of the tune
2. Enter the chords in concert pitch, ie, Eb7, Eb7, Bb6, Bb6, transposing in my head.
3. Go to the P button and choose the Alto sax button. This only changes the display, not the pitch.
4. The chords now display in correct notation and in the correct pitch.
I believe the "P, Alto sax" steps are the same as the Opt, Pref, Notation, alto sax+9 steps.
The key signature setting to concert pitch of Bb is fixed by the composer even though the sax part is written in G. Therefore it cannot be changed. What can be changed is the screen display to give the notation for the transposed instrument, ie the Eb sax which is tuned a minor 3rd below concert. So a G on the sax is actually a Bb concert.
Do later versions of BIAB accomplish this without the mental gymnastics?
This method works but it requires the mental transposing...Please check me on this and let me know if I finally have it correct. Thanks
Matt, I think when you saw Alto and "G" in the same sentence you assumed G Alto flute, but I am sure that Philandre meant he has an alto sax part written in G, which as he said, is the concert key of Bb.
So, the question is what is the best way of entering the chords in the key of G so that they sound in the concert key of Bb.
I mentioned that this is much easier in the new version than in old versions. I don't know when this changed was but you can do a simple experiment to see which way it works for you in your BB 2008.
- Open a new song.
- Set the notation transposition to Eb Alto Sax
- type in a G chord in the chord sheet.
- if the chord shows up as an E chord than this is the old behavior. This is how it worked in BB 2007. The chords you type are treated as concert key chords. The G concert key chord = an E chord for alto sax.
- if the chord shows up as a G chord then your version of BB acts like BB 2011 does. Simply follow my instruction in the previous post. In summary, you set the notation to alto sax, and type in the chords as they are written the alto sax part. That's all. Hit the play button.
As Matt mentioned, you can always use transposition to compensate in the older versions. I think I have an easier method of doing that, which I will outline in the most generic format. You should be able to use this with music written for instruments in any key. (These steps are only needed if your version of BB does not fuction like the new BB)
- Start a new song
- Set the notation options for Concert pitch
- Set the key signature to the key of the music you want to input
- Type in the chords as they are written in the sheet music
- When you are done, change the key signature to the correct concert key. Say YES to the ok to transpose question.
- Finally, change the notation option to display for the transposing instrument
So, for your specific example
- For the 3rd step, your written music is in G. Set the key signature for G.
- For the 5th step, the concert key is Bb.
- In the final step, Change the notation transposition to Eb alto.
- the result will by chords that play in the concert key of Bb, but which are displayed in the key of G for your instrument.
After you have created a BB song in this fashion and need to make a correction to a chord, type in corrected chord using the concert pitch -- you don't want to have to transpose the song multiple times again just to make a few minor changes.
An Eflat instrument is up a perfect 6th.
I don't remember when the P button showed up but Alto sax is +9, up a perfect 6th.
Bflat would show up in the key of G.
Forget the discussion of horns and the wherefore and the why start a new thread and Dr. Matt will lead you through some stuff, except forget the trombone. Too many variations of that thing.
Remember when you play a note on the horn, say your G. down is F# then F then E then Eb then D then D flat, then C then B then Bflat. 9 count 'em.
If you don't like the result you can go up or down an octave by pressing CTL ALT and 1, or CTL ALT and 2.
Or go back to concert pitch then change the key / let it transpose and then go back and change it +9.
You can use -3 too.
Most versions come with a classical song folder and some came with folksong folders.
Don't reinvent the wheel there are lots of songs, about 20,000 of them in band in a box format on the net.
I learned to play a G marching horn and a bflat baritone by myself, with Band in a Box, an OLD version, using the transpose feature. Works great. Even better after the enhancements in the later versions. And I was well over 50 when I started. (I do have background in piano and accordion.)
I go up 9 or down 3 depending on the range of the melody for alto and bari. Up 2 or 14 for tenor and soprano (also depending on the written melody range.
Thanks Jim, you made my day...my 2008 version works great now.