The HD version ships with a booklet regarding new features but I need a full blown printed manual so I get sit with it...use a Highlighter pen and Post-it Notes.
That is because as a non-Power User, I forget a lot of what I "learn" if I don't use a given technique every day.
I asked Support and was told that a printed manual will be available for sale in February. I will order it immediately upon its availability and just thought that others might want to know when it will be available.
Best,
Jim
Hi Jim,
Thank you for the information. I'm with you. I like to have a manual to.
Regards,
Noel
Jim,
Ditto on the posting
Thank you.
Thanx for the heads up. I also would like a printed manual. I hope PGMusic will announce when it is ready.
You're all welcome. In my profession, I spend a LOT of time staring at a PC screen and I just can't stomach (and my eye doctors tells me not to) more screen time for hobbies!!
BTW...the Doc also tells me to force myself to:
A. Focus AWAY from and back to the monitor a LOT and
B. Blink alot. Apparently, we tend to "under-blink" when intently focusing on a computer screen and therefore, we get much less lubrication.
(-:
+1 here for the printed manual....will order as soon as is available..
Ditto av84fun.
I'm in for a hard copy manual, especially for where the digital and audio cross.
I'm not that up on computers and I find that I can get a great tune into BiaB or Realband in minutes and then spend HOURS trying to get it to work as I want! That can't be right.
Biab was meant to be simple.It is in its basic use but now us just as complex to get the best out if it as Sonar, Cubase etc ad nauseum.
If it wasn't for this forum I'd probably have packed it in years ago.
And yes - this is a Hobby for me. I don't want to have to make it another Career. Been there-done that-retired from it.
My eyes have been grateful ever since.
Cheers
Ian
Take the PDF to a copy center and have it printed and binded for you.
It doesn't break the bank, mind you...
I priced out the PDF for Propellerhead Reason 6, which would have run to about 1100 pages. Their online estimator priced it at nearly $700 USD. I called a store and they said yeah, that was a mistake, it would only be $350. End of hard copy for THAT program. In this case it pays to wait.
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Take the PDF to a copy center and have it printed and binded for you.
around here commercial printers like KINKOS won't print copies of (C) books, manuals etc.
But you can buy printer paper that is pre-punched for binders and do it yourself:
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/495200/Office-Depot-Brand-3-Hole-Punch/
(price is for a whole box... but if it's available that way, it should be available in smaller packs)
or
http://www.bizrate.com/paper/608921824.html
Advantages of doing this are:
1) you can print the "WHAT'S NEW IN THIS VERSION" manual and insert the pages at the correct place in the binder
2) if you have software that lets you edit PDFs, you can maintain your own merged and customized version of the manual
3) you can create separate sections or edit the PDF to insert other tricks or pertinent information where applicable
4) you can edit the table of contents to use whatever keywords or description you choose
Good suggestion Pat. But I don't know how many pages the full manual would be or how many ink cartriges would be consumed printing it or how much the PG printed version would sell for.
PG...How many pages...and what would your expected price be...roughly...for the printed manual.
Armed with that info we could make an informed decision about whether to wait or proceed DIY.
Also...PG...I don't know the issues surrounding the wait until February. My GUESS is a production backlog at a large commercial printing firm you might use.
But I for one would gladly pay $100 for the manual NOW.
THANKS!
Jim
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Good suggestion Pat. But I don't know how many pages the full manual would be or how many ink cartriges would be consumed printing it or how much the PG printed version would sell for.
I wouldn't even consider printing my own manual with an ink jet printer. But laser printers are CHEAP these days!
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PG...How many pages...and what would your expected price be...roughly...for the printed manual. Armed with that info we could make an informed decision about whether to wait or proceed DIY.
it will be a lot less than a laser printer ... probably even less than a package of binder paper 
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But I for one would gladly pay $100 for the manual NOW.
if that's the price you're willing to pay, I feel sure you could find a laser printer for less than that at just about any computer store... and you could have it today.
previous thread on the topic:
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.p...true#Post228384
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.p...true#Post259806
Commercial printers around here will not print copyrighted manuals either.
I’m going t buy an e-reader soon for all of my PDF manuals.
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But I for one would gladly pay $100 for the manual NOW.
Really ??
The last and only printed manual I have is from 2007. The size is 6" x 9" (actually a little less)
Not a friend of old eyes.
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The last and only printed manual I have is from 2007. The size is 6" x 9" (actually a little less)
Not a friend of old eyes.
I'm with you on that one. I'd rather have it large print, 8-1/2 X 11, even if it costs a few bucks more. There's a lot of us old farts here that would benefit from that.
But $100 bucks? ...... No way.
I've been into running a paperless office for a long time now. Of course, there are some situations where I have to resort to the printed stuff, but by this time I now look on THAT as the hassle. Small print, small booklets, that sort of thing.
BUT -- All that dissolves with a .pdf and working the program a bit.
Page too small? Enlarge it. To the point where it can be seen across the room, at least a portion of it anways.
Don't like the screen contrast or brightness because it is hard on the eyes? Change the settings. In certain cases, maybe investigate a new monitor.
.pdf manuals, schematics, service manuals, study material, fakebooks (yes, laptop on the gig sometimes) books and novels, too, in some cases.
And then there's the Kindle. Fantastic.
--Mac
Bob and Dana....either of you...or anyone else willing to print me out an 8.5x11 version of the FULL 2013 manual and guarantee delivery in a week or 2 will get a hundred bucks from me in a heartbeat!
I just don't have the time to mess around with it.
(-:
Quote:
I've been into running a paperless office for a long time now. Of course, there are some situations where I have to resort to the printed stuff, but by this time I now look on THAT as the hassle. Small print, small booklets, that sort of thing.
BUT -- All that dissolves with a .pdf and working the program a bit.
Page too small? Enlarge it. To the point where it can be seen across the room, at least a portion of it anways.
Don't like the screen contrast or brightness because it is hard on the eyes? Change the settings. In certain cases, maybe investigate a new monitor.
.pdf manuals, schematics, service manuals, study material, fakebooks (yes, laptop on the gig sometimes) books and novels, too, in some cases.
And then there's the Kindle. Fantastic.
--Mac
"Page too small? Enlarge it. To the point where it can be seen across the room, at least a portion of it anways."
Yes but all that Highliter pen really messes up my computer screen!!!!
(-:
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[
Yes but all that Highliter pen really messes up my computer screen!!!!
(-:
Yeah, but it's not as bad as White Out 
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Yes but all that Highliter pen really messes up my computer screen!!!!
Good one !
Meant no offense by my "really" comment earlier.
Just trying to make you aware of how small the manual was (5 1/2 x 8 1/2),
that you were putting a $100 buck price tag on.
... and thanks for the computer screen tips, I pretty much stare at one all day too!
A couple of comments, back in the day I printed the manuals myself, I have a duplex printer which helps, then took them to my local Staples ( Kinkos equiv here in Canada)
and had them bind it. I found I did not like the zirlox binding but could special order the round spiral binding if I didn't mind waiting an extra day.
If you have an 1100 page manual, well I'd break it up if it was me but. That's 550 pages duplex-ed, that's about 5-6 dollars worth of paper, 2.5 cents per page to print $27.00 + 5-6 dollars to bind. That's under $40.00
Last summer I purchased an iPad specifically to run the iGigbook app ( fantastic BTW ) and now I put all my pdf's on it. For some reason much more convenient that printed books, always there, really thin, searchable, bookmark-able, and I can carry around all my documentation all at the same time, as well as fakebooks, gear docs, it really is a great advantage over printing stuff out.
G
One rather HUGE "AHA!" about using monitors for reading and studying that I discovered rather early on. Likely due to being one of the earlier day to day computer users way back when there weren't microcomputers and we worked on terminals and mainframes all day.
I'd like to share it with those who will pay heed and want to alleviate the situation.
TIP: Learn to remember to BLINK OUR EYES MORE OFTEN when working with the computer.
Don't know why, but we often will get into a mode where we tend to STARE instead of VIEW when there's a monitor in front of our eyes. That somehow can create a situation where we don't blink as often as we should, and the eyes dry out rather quickly.
Dry eyes are fatigued eyes.
Was still in my Air Force days when I discovered this trick.
Matter of fact, the only paper note hanging at the top of my terminal on that job was on the backl of somebody's calling card and had one word written on it in all caps with a felt pen (AND, YES, This was before the advent of "Post-it Notes":
BLINK
Make it a new habit and see if the task of reading from an electronic screen doesn't change from a task into a joy.
It did for me.
--Mac
Where is the full manual? I've just installed 2013 and there are two PDFs in my bb directory:
'2012.5 Manual' and
'2013 Upgrade manual'.
That implies PG haven't made a 2013 manual (yet)?
So what does a complete newcomer get? It's a bit poor if they get the same, i.e. no complete manual.
John
That's what I have too, John. Perhaps the OP's statement that the printed manual will be available in February also means that the PDF will not be ready until then?
Well, since we're on the subject of a BiaB manual ... whether printed or electronic.
My much bigger concern than having a printed version of the manual is to have an up-to-date and correct version of the online Help.
The online Help is very old and does not include many of the (not so new anymore) features.
While using BiaB it is much easier (for me) to click on Help than to flip through a multi-hundred page manual.
Of course, YMMV.
Mac,
Kindle, outstanding idea for me...
I own an $100 Polaroid 7 inch tablet with Kindle App from Amazon on it.
Reads great, color tints, font size and all. Have 16 GB on Aux card.
Will put it there and enjoy WITH my PG Music software and also other
programs that use PDF help files, like almost all of my CoffeeCup net software.
Above average to Outstanding!
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Where is the full manual? I've just installed 2013 and there are two PDFs in my bb directory:
'2012.5 Manual' and
'2013 Upgrade manual'.
That implies PG haven't made a 2013 manual (yet)?
So what does a complete newcomer get? It's a bit poor if they get the same, i.e. no complete manual.
John
Right...I think the issue is that the 2013 manual doesn't exist yet. That leaves us with the 12.5 manual and the 13 "New Features Guide" along, of course with the on-line Help resource.
Best,
Jim
FYI, the 365b patch now contains the full BIAB 2013 manual in PDF form.
It's a bit over 600 pages.
Just got a cybook odyssey HD ereader with something called reflow for PDFs. This means that you don't get the pdf page showing up in the original version (unless you turn reflow off), but get it reflowed into the smaller screen.
Its never going to replace a good book, but you can take the pdf and put it in your pocket, or read it on the beach or in bed. Its also possible of course, using file conversion apps to have your manual on a kilndle, but I have never had one myself. My reader is pretty small, you can increase the font size, but its not as good as a nice big book smelling of trees. IMO.
Quote:
Mac,
Kindle, outstanding idea for me...
I own an $100 Polaroid 7 inch tablet with Kindle App from Amazon on it.
Reads great, color tints, font size and all. Have 16 GB on Aux card.
Will put it there and enjoy WITH my PG Music software and also other
programs that use PDF help files, like almost all of my CoffeeCup net software.
Above average to Outstanding!
I am such a HUGE fan of PG Music and think they do Best of the Breed work in the software industry that I sort of hate to chime in with you on this. But you are correct. "Context sensitivity" to search terms is all but non-existant.
As for the 2013 Manual, I assume that by combining the "New Features" manual for 13 with the full PDF manual for 12.5, you will have essentially what will be the formal 13 manual...at least something VERY close to it.
If that is correct, I would buy an 8.5x11 printed version of the 12.5 manual and be fine with it. But I don't see a link to buying a printed manual on the PG site (probably my fault) and don't know if it is 8.5x11.
I do recall that the PDF manual is 600+ pages...which I suppose could be edited by at least 100 pages to exclude that which we don't need. But that's still a lot of pages and some of us would just as soon buy a manual than mess around with printing our own.
Just my $0.02.
And CHEERS for everything that PG does right which is ALMOST everything!!!
Best,
Jim
Why print out all the pages you'll probably never use? You could print out just what you need from the PDF manual. Myself, I usually find out what I need from the pop-up hints or help buttons. Just sayin'.
Well, everyone does it differently. I usually print out the manual, because I will then read it while lying in bed before turning out the light. Much easier to read the paper than a small screen, especially where screen shots are concerned (if it's just text, my Kindle is great, but not so much on diagrams and screen shots).
Of course, the added convenience of this is that I can do what I used to do in college. When you get sleepy, just put the book under your pillow and the information transfers by osmosis.
Hi Rich,
I have a slightly different philosophy. My view is that I don't know what I don't know.
For that reason, I always make it a priority to read and re-read the manual. I like to find out the many subtleties of the program that the pop-up tips do not cover. I don't know how many times I've read something and a voice inside my head has said, "I didn't know that. That's brilliant. I'm gonna use that in my next song."
Just my tuppence worth.
Noel
"Knowledge is power. Learning is fun."
--Mac
I printed out version 2008.5 of Real Band and Band in a Box. RB was 292 pages and BiaB was 510 pages. It looks like the latest version is 332 for RB and 608 for BiaB. I wonder if there would be a copyright issue if someone sold copies to someone else. (For $100 I would think about it.) I would gladly pay $50 for a 'real' copy.
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I wonder if there would be a copyright issue if someone sold copies to someone else.
Most definitely. PG Music are the copyright owners and there is no permission that I can find anywhere that gives a user the right to reproduce and market their manuals.
In the past, when PG Music have published a manual, it's usually been sold for a nominal amount (certainly much much less than $100; I think I paid $15 or $20 last time I bought one a couple of years ago).
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...
And then there's the Kindle. Fantastic. ...
--Mac
Mac
I love my Kindle(s), I wish I had one most of last 35+ years when I was living in airplanes and airports. But FYSA, I just side loaded the 2013 PDF BIAB manual, as well as a converted to MOBI version (around 49 MB's converted), onto one of my Kindle's.
All I can say is: NOT RECOMMENDED 
(obviously the BIAB Manual was not optimized for an eReader). If bored or an emergency maybe I'd consider (can't think of an emergency where BIAB would be running and I need some info but I can't use a PDF reader )
I don’t have any Kindle Fire's to try this on but suspect even a larger color screen wouldn't help since layout is all wrong for eReaders.
However, I like a lot of others, ALWAYS prefer hard copy reading over "TV screen" reading for work or pleasure where possible, Kindles (Nooks, etc.) are exceptions.
Larry
I had one printed at the local Office Depot. With the plastic comb binding, it cost about $35.00.
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Well, everyone does it differently. I usually print out the manual, because I will then read it while lying in bed before turning out the light. Much easier to read the paper than a small screen, especially where screen shots are concerned (if it's just text, my Kindle is great, but not so much on diagrams and screen shots).
Of course, the added convenience of this is that I can do what I used to do in college. When you get sleepy, just put the book under your pillow and the information transfers by osmosis.
My problem would be reverse osmosis!!!
(-"
Quote:
I printed out version 2008.5 of Real Band and Band in a Box. RB was 292 pages and BiaB was 510 pages. It looks like the latest version is 332 for RB and 608 for BiaB. I wonder if there would be a copyright issue if someone sold copies to someone else. (For $100 I would think about it.) I would gladly pay $50 for a 'real' copy.
PG can stick up for itself but YES...selling a copyrighted work as the BIAB manual certainly is would be copyright infringement...pure and simple.
Technically, you couldn't even copy it at GIVE it away because copying is one of the rights reserved exclusively to the owner of the copyright. (there are certain "fair use" exceptions and it would be up to the owner to decide what...if anything...they want to do about it).
Best,
Jim
I hope that they start supplying a proper ePub version instead of a PDF Only. Converting a PDF to ePub is NOT a smooth process, especially with a lot of graphics! LOL
Hi All,
Not sure if this is going to be of help to any one, but I hope it is:
I recently received my BIAB on a Hard Disk Drive, and it came with a printed Manual / Users Guide, and also a small blue Booklet titled: 'Band-In-A-Box Version 2013 for Windows; New Features Guide'.
The BIAB manual itself, is actually version 2012.5, so I guess everything in the 2013 edition of BIAB is exactly the same as what it was in the 2012 edition, EXCEPT for the 'New Features' for version 2013, which the blue Booklet (as noted above), covers. The 'New Features' Booklet is about the same size as the Manual.
The manual is 294 pages which includes the Index (6 pages) and the Registration Form (page 294). It appears to be the same measurements as the previous Manuals I have heard people describe here. It is Spiral bound.
For those considering printing off the Manual from PDF format, (perhaps in a larger Font size) and then having it professionally bound,then you could also approach your local College / University as most Universities operate professional binding services. I get a LOT of my documents professionally bound at my University and they do a great job for a reasonable cost. I get my documents either regular bound or spiral bound. I can not recall the actual costs of binding a large document, but I think the price is comparable to Office Depot et al.
Happy Holidays,
- Dome
Quote:
Hi All,
Not sure if this is going to be of help to any one, but I hope it is:
I recently received my BIAB on a Hard Disk Drive, and it came with a printed Manual / Users Guide, and also a small blue Booklet titled: 'Band-In-A-Box Version 2013 for Windows; New Features Guide'.
The BIAB manual itself, is actually version 2012.5, so I guess everything in the 2013 edition of BIAB is exactly the same as what it was in the 2012 edition, EXCEPT for the 'New Features' for version 2013, which the blue Booklet (as noted above), covers. The 'New Features' Booklet is about the same size as the Manual.
The manual is 294 pages which includes the Index (6 pages) and the Registration Form (page 294). It appears to be the same measurements as the previous Manuals I have heard people describe here. It is Spiral bound.
For those considering printing off the Manual from PDF format, (perhaps in a larger Font size) and then having it professionally bound,then you could also approach your local College / University as most Universities operate professional binding services. I get a LOT of my documents professionally bound at my University and they do a great job for a reasonable cost. I get my documents either regular bound or spiral bound. I can not recall the actual costs of binding a large document, but I think the price is comparable to Office Depot et al.
Happy Holidays,
- Dome
Hmmm...I got the EverythingPak on a HD but got no printed manual...except the brief "New in 2013" booklet.
I assume that is because the manual wasn't ready when I made my purchase. But I'm REALLY surprised that a University or other commercial printer would duplicate a copyrighted work without written permission to do so.
Is there a standard permission statement in the Manual??
If not...the mere COPYING of the manual is illegal. (The right to copy is one that is specifically reserved to the copyright owner).
I've been turned down by the Kinkos/Staples of the world unless I had written permission.
I'm just sayin'
Jim
Hi Jim,
My suggestion of members getting their printed PDF Manuals BOUND by a College / University, was simply that - a suggestion. I was in NO way, condoning the breach of Copyrighted material, or even suggesting that a University will do this.
I made NO mention of the University actually 'Copying' ANY documents. I merely mentioned the University as an alternate choice for those members who have wanted to have their documents or whatever, SPIRAL BOUND but have been unsuccessful in finding a place to do it. I also mentioned the University, simply as an 'alternative' to Copy Depot et al. just in case some members weren't aware that many Universities have their own Document BINDING Service available. I was making reference to the job of having documents BOUND, (NOT copied) in which ever manner the University offers.
**** To be clear to all those who read my posts on this subject: I was NOT in any way suggesting that members breach any copyright laws. I was offering a simple suggestion for an alternate place where people could have their material professionally BOUND.
Perhaps it would be a lot easier for all concerned, who want to actually COPY their BIAB PDF manual (for their OWN SOLE USE, so they can increase the Font size and highlight the sections they want),is 1) Ask PG Music for written permission. 2) For PG Music to give it's users 'PERMISSION' to do so within BIAB PDF Manual, just as they do when PG Music suggests in their Users' Manual for BIAB users to COPY the BIAB files to another Hard Drive, if the user so desires. Enough said....
- Dome