I have a Yamaha DGX640 keyboard connected to my laptop computer via a USB-MIDI cable. The laptop computer has an i5 CPU and 8Gigs Ram, running Windows 7 - 64 bit.

I've changed my MIDI driver settings in BIAB2014 per this video, but I'm still experiencing quite a bit of latency. As explained in the video, I've set the MIDI driver to CoyoteWT and the Audio Settings to ASIO (using ASIO4All v2).

Is there something further I can tweak to help lower the latency?

If it helps to analyze the problem, note that I also use the ASIO4All driver with Pianoteq software (NOT concurrently BIAB, of course), and experience no latency there.

Any ideas on what I should try?

Thanks!

What does BB MIDI/Audio window report as the latency time?

Bert,

Here's an article from PG Music on latency.

http://www.pgmusic.com/tutorial_bbwlatency.htm

I remember that a few years ago, when I installed BIAB on a brand new computer, the latency factor increased considerably even though I had had very little latency only the day before on the previous computer.

Then something happened. I went back to my computer the following day and the (lack of) latency was back to what it had been on my old computer.

I have no idea what I did but it seems that I must have entered into something and simply by entering that and then exiting it, I had changed something.

I mention the above because even though I have no idea what happened, there are some things to try. Below is the process that I would have gone through so it might have been what solved the problem.

Let's try this ...

Actually, before trying anything, save your present settings by using "Opt | Save preferences as ..." - this then gives a way to get back to your present settings if the below attempt is fruitless.

1. Click on "Prefs" (#1).

2. Now select "Midi Driver" (#2).



In the Window that pops up (as shown above) ...

3. Click on "Get Input Drivers" (#3) and then select the input that your keyboard is attached to (#4).

4. Click on "Run Driver Wizard" (#5) and choose the top option for the GS Wavetable Synth. Click OK. Check that the Wavetable synth is selected (#6).

5. Make sure the two check boxes for "Use VST/DXi Synth" and "Route MIDI through MIDI driver" are un-checked (#7).

6. Set #8 to 120 (as per the instructions below this window).

Exit the setup. Close BIAB. Restart the computer. Restart BIAB and try it out.

It might not be a solution but it's worth a shot.

Hope this helps,
Noel

As it looks like Noel also found out, sometimes a Reboot of the puter is all it takes. Windoze, y'know.

Other times, inside BB, A Return to Factory Settings can fix such as well. Why, I dunno, but it has worked before here.


--Mac

I hope you have better luck with latency than I have had over the years. I have never been able to permanently get zero noticeable latency when using my keyboard with BIAB and a soft synthesizer. I have tried every possible ASIO/driver combination and fiddled with settings for hours and asked all kinds of question on this forum. I have often thought I have cracked the problem only for it to re-appear. This may not apply to you but the one latency issue I can never solve is when using the "pause PLAY until MIDI received" It is very hard to get this to work with no latency, which defeats the object of this feature.

This is why I switched to a hard synth (sound module) years ago which never has any latency issues of any kind. I haven't tried recently so things may be better but I love my sound module and have dozens of songs that use it's higher banks.

Tony

Well, Following Noel's advice, I have good news and I have bad news.....

First, the good news....the latency is gone.

The bad news.....all sounds generated from either the MIDI keyboard or BIAB's Big Piano are gone too. In other words, I can't get either to play. Before I could get sounds to play, but only about a 1/2 second after inputting them.

I have shutdown BIAB, and rebooted the PC and have the same result.

Oohhh.....I don't know if I'm willing to do a return to factory settings after finally getting the Hi-Q sounds issue sorted out.....

Well, that's not good news, Tony.

Could you elaborate about the hardware synth (sound module) that you're using?

I know NOTHING about them. How does it get hooked/configured to the digital piano and computer?

Thanks.

Bert,

At the moment, your system is not set to reproduce sounds using VST/DXi (e.g. Sampletank, CoyoteWT, etc). That's what those two checkboxes #7 (in the image above do).

So now that we're getting somewhere, activated the two checkboxes I've labelled as #7.

Now click on the dropbox immediately below #7 and set the softsynth to CoyoteWT (you can see that mine is set to Cakewalk-TTS1). Exit and restart BIAB. (No need to restart the computer.)



See if you still have low latency.

I did as you suggested, Noel. And for about 5-10 seconds, it was working fine - very low latency. Then suddenly, the latency jumped to about 5 seconds, and it remains there! (That is not a typo....)

You can do a Return to Factory Settings without it touching your MIDI or Audio selections.

After you pick it from the Options menu, you will see two choices, the first button only resets the other stuff and often cures problems such as this.

There are also explanations on each button there.


--Mac

Bert,

Is it possible for you to use the Snipping Tool to capture and image of your "MIDI Driver" setup? Once you've captured it, you can save it as a jpg.

Once you have a jpg, you can then attach it to a forum post by ...

1. Switching to "Full Reply Screen" (next to the "preview reply" button>

2. Using "File Manager" that I've highlighted below.



It would help a great deal if I can see your settings.

Regards,
Noel

Boy do I remember going through this problem! That held me up for YEARS. I was never able to get BIAB to work without noticeable latency. Ten someone in the forum suggested I needed to obtain a audio interface. I got the avid fasttrack from Sweetwater and had NO ORE problems with latency since. Have moved up to the fastrack Pro and love it. Of course I also got into ProTools and Sonar at the same time. Good luck. I will be watching your progress with real interest.

Been away from the computer for a time. Noel. I will work on getting a jpg posted here using the advice that you (I believe it was you...) provided in theother thread about Hi-Q files. I'm not sure what the "snipping tool" is or how it works, but I think that I'll manage to get a jpg posted otherwise. If not, I'll be back with questions about that.

I'll get the jpg posted here later today.

Thanks.

When you have that window displaying the way you want it just hit your Print Screen button on your PC keyboard. That captures every pixel on your monitor and puts it in your clipboard.

Open Microsoft Paint (in Start>All Programs>Accessories and paste it in by hitting Ctrl V. If you want to crop it so just that window shows, there's tools in Paint to do that.

Then do a Save As and save it as a gif or jpeg file. Save it anywhere you want and then in the Forum File Manager browse to that pic and post it here.

The only odd thing about this is when you hit the Preview Reply button that image doesn't show up so you can't see exactly what it looks like until you actually post it but if you followed these directions the image will be there.

Bob

Thanks for the explanation, Bob. I'll getting to it in a few minutes.

Newbert, what interface do you use to process through?

Here are my current MIDI Settings, Noel.

For some reason, the latency is greatly reduced today,but it's still perhaps 1/2 second.

Hmm... No Pic. Let me try again.

Robh -- I'm a newbie to this stuff and don't understand the question. My DGX640 Digital Piano is connected to my laptop by a USB-MIDI cable, if that's what you mean....

Gotcha. hhmmm

Newbert--

Your Keyboard has its own internal sounds?

Then highlight Portable Grand 1 and not any of the softsynths and enjoy ZERO latency from the hardware synth in the piano, using the piano's internal voices.

If that piano has a full GM bank and higher patches in it, UNcheck "Use DXi" and use the likely better sounds in the piano for all other MIDI instruments as well.


--Mac

My keyboard does have many internal sounds, Mac. However, it's my understanding that Yamaha (at least this one) doesn't support the full GM bank. I believe they use a proprietary mix of voices that differs slightly from "mainstream" GM.

If I do as you suggest, I believe that I would not be able to record into BIAB. Is that correct?

Just trying to learn how all of this works together.....

Thanks.

It should have Yamaha "XG" bank in it, which is basically the same as GM but with different Patch Number ordering. BiaB has a "Use XG" command under the GM MIDI menu, a one-button solution to that nonproblem.



You can still record.

The Audio output of the keyboard, though is best done by using L and R audio cables from keyboard to Line Input of your sound device on the computer so that you will hear both MIDI and RealInstruments coming from the same speakers.

You also lose the rapid "Render" to wsv, mp3, etc. feature because the "Use DXi" must be unchecked in order to have BB route to your external hardware MIDI synth in the keyboard.

But - you should try it and see, because the sounds in that keyboard may just sound better than any of your DXi.VSTi synths anyway.

AND - there is that guarantee of near zero latency when using the sounds from the keyboard to consider.


--Mac

The man has a point!

Yes, you make a good point. I'm learning as we go along....

Yes, the Yamaha has "XG" in it. Are you referring to the "GM == > Send MIDI Message == > Send XG Mode on Message (Yamaha)" command or the "Auto Send XG Mode on Startup" command? With either one, I get a message that says:

"Yamaha XG users (and others) should likely NOT send this XG on message, and should send GM on message instead, so that drum patches will work. Do you want to proceed with sending an XG? (YES / NO / CANCEL)"

BIAB is telling me NOT to do this, so should I? And if so, which of the two commands should I invoke?


Also, While I don't completely understand the terminology in the part of your post that I highlighted, I can't route BIAB output from my laptop computer (or ANY output for that matter) into the keyboard because this keyboard has no "Line-In" capability (sadly).

Thanks.

just run midi in/out, or USB mid all should be good

The Auto Send means that you won't have to revisit the setting every time BB is started up to get the XG sent, and that would be the one I'd recommend using. It is easily turned off in future by simply going there again.




Many of rhe newer Yamaha keyboards can and will run from the standard GM command now, so try leaving it as is first and see if the Drums are working and that the other sounds in the patchlist are what they say they are and not "one off" from where they should be. If anything like that occurs, and your keyboard is playing wrong instruments, try the XG on message.



Keyboard does not need the Line INput, keyboard needs Line OUTput to the computer's LINE INPUT.

Some keyboards don't have an Audio Output on them, if so, just use the Headphone output with proper Y adapter to route the stereo to L and R Line INPUTs on your computer.

You can still test and even use BB though, the MIDI sounds will just come out of the piano's speakers instead of the computer's speakers.


--Mac

Very good stuff. Thanks again for the lesson - I'm learning a lot.

This forum is great!