No volume adjusment when making WAV?

PG Music Home

I've explored all the FAQs and searched the forum for this issue but haven't find any pointers yet...

I'm discovering that ALL the songs for which I've produced wav files are MUCH quieter than the professionally-produced backing tracks I've purchased - so when I'm playing back I have to keep drastically adjusting the volume control.

The answers I've found are:

1. Adjust the windows sound card settings from the WAV button in BIAB - but this seems to have no effect on dxi, which I'm using.
2. Add a dB audio boost of 10dB in the WAV creation dialog - but this is surely simpl to adjust comparative volume for pre-recorded real tracks, and doesn't seem to affect the overall volume.
3. Use my CD burning software to adjust the final volume comparatively with other tracks. But I have over 150 tracks in total, only 10 of which are from BIAB. They are stored as files on my computer, not on CD, so I can't adjust during the burning process. If I was to get my player to adjust them it would take forever for it to optimise all 150 tracks to the same level.

Is there anything else I can do to make the output volume significantly louder when using dxi?

Thanks

Make sure your part and combo volume is up. 90 is the default and can go up to 127. You can also use a DXI plugin such as PG Dynamics. Be sure to use the PG PeakLimiter also in the last slot.

Rachael

Many people do a final remix in RB, PT or audacity, making an adjustment to the file to bring it into consistency with other reference recordings. You might try that on you 10 or so BIAB tracks. You would only have to post process these to make them consistent with the others that you already own.

The difference between your files and those purchased pro files is in the MASTERING.

They are Mastered, yours has not been Mastered at all.

--Mac

For a quick and reasonably easy solution, look at Ozone 4 at www.izotope.com

and while you are there, read their free guide on mastering at http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/guides.html The first three pages of the text will clear it all up for you.

With Ozone, you can make subtle improvements, or (horrors) slam your audio right to the max.

Ozone is not free; it costs $250 for new users, and it is available as a DirectX or VST plugin. Many of us who use SONAR highly recommend it as a one-program mastering solution. It bridges the gap between nothing and hugely expensive mastering tools. Plus, it requires no PACE or dongle (undesirable forms of copy protection). It may be the quickest and easiest way to improve home studio recordings.

Like PapaMike said.....I think Audacity is free. I use WavePad which is also free. When I'm done rendering, I pull the file into WavePad and "normalize". I also eliminate the "tics", fade out the ending, etc..This has worked as a quick fix for me.

I've been having this problem for years. Anything I render produces a very weak signal--generally peaking at about -18dB. I use Audition to normalize all my BiaB WAVs, but this is just not right, because when you do that you also raise your noise floor. I've maxed out every fader I can find (soundcard in/out, DXi, inst==127, etc.) and it still renders way too low. I figure I must be still missing something.

Has anyone been able to directly render a healthy-level WAV file? If so, what's your setup or secret?

Nate

Did you try to compare it with the original files? I mean if they also are softly recorded, then that's just the way it is. And yes normalizing brings up the noise as well, but it will be the only way if this is standard level. If you do it through a normalizing or a volume control, the effects remain the same. You in both way lift all information in the recording upwards. I must say the recordings I made up to now, have not been the best quality always in volume or in sound/colour, but good enough to fix it in the mix. But well in fact this doesnot really answer your question I guess...

I had this problem with the very first wav file I tried to render. Someone posted to add +10 Db at the bottom right of the rendering page, before hitting render. This has worked for me as far as volume only. Not quality of recording. That I try to do with effects and especially the Pg dynamics plug in seems to really add punch. Especially in RB where you can BEEF up individual tracks in the mix. (Not just volumes here, but quality, effect wise.) As Mac says, we will never achieve a true mastered quality sound at home, probably, but many I have heard on this forum are very close.

> ...add +10 Db at the bottom right of the rendering page, before hitting render...

+10dB would be nice. +15 even better. I looked for a place in the Render dialog box to put that and the only place was for the merged audio. I tried that anyway and it didn't help. It's weird because both RealDrum output and VSC/DXi output are low. Luvs3rds,
did you find a way to boost MIDI and/or RealDrums/RealTracks to a normal level?

One thing I've just noticed, though, is if i bring up the VSC/DXi window and put all the volumes to 127, they stay there until I do a render. Then, right when the render is done, they all snap down to 90. Does that mean they were at 90 for the render session? If so, this may be part of my problem. How do I get those volumes to stay at 127?

I am ok with the general quality--I just want dry tracks, and I can sweeten them up in Audition. It's just this volume thing that's driving me nuts. A little weak and I would just live with it, but with a -20dB puny signal, I just gotta think something's wrong with my setup.

The 'Adjust Audio track volume by' should adjust any audio including RealDrums and RealTracks. As far as Midi, the volume is determined in the style as programmed. Raising the Master (ctrl alt D) or part volume should reflect in the Render. Be sure to save with patches (Alt F2) and have Save settings for Volume checked. As a last resort you could try Normalizing in Opts|Prefs|Arrange but you would be overriding the mix BIAB has put for the instruments.

Rachael

Sounds like the RECORD level fader of your soundcard INput is turned down too low.

Remember, when you click on the little speaker icon, the first faders you typically see are the PLAYBACK faders.

Record fader is usually accessed via a menu there, like File -> Properties or the like.

--Mac

I've spent hours trying to fix this with no results at all.

Everything is up to the max and it seems to make no difference. I can see the difference in the play and record meters in BIAB, but no matter what I play with, it has no effect at all.

Have you located the Record Properties of your soundcard?

Quote:

Have you located the Record Properties of your soundcard?

Yes the recorded properties are all maxed out.

It really seems to be something with the audio settings in BIAB.

Probably has something to do with the DXi settings, but I can't put my finger on it.

Or there could be no solution at all, except to go to an outside force like Audition or Sounbooth.

It has to do with the real tracks for some reason.

I just tested it with the midi instruments and the sound is perfect.

It would explain why the bass is so loud, when I use the default midi bass instead of the real tracks bass.

Hi,

Someone else suggested the PG Peaklimiter plugin - have you tried that? It should help - add it to a slot in the Synth track tab of the DirectX/VST window, below where you have the VSC selected.

My knowledge is limited on this, but what I noticed is I will have a song completely dialed in, as far as mix, and volumes. I go to render, then hit the TEST WAV button, and invariaby, the midi will be really LOUD compared to the realtracks. I delete the wav, go back in and lower the midi to like 50, max out the Real Tracks. . . Then add 10 or 15 Db in the render window, then save to wav. This is if I am going somewhere else like RB, to do a final edit. This is usually where you can use the musician's favorite line of "Fix it in the Mix". So far, it works good if you are going to another program. If you are doing it all in BIAB, sometimes I have changed numbers 2-3 times before it sounded "kinda like" I originally saved it.

Bottom line, I have maxed out to 127, and then imported to RB or whatever, and just fixed it.

Hi rlefebvr,

I found this problem in the early days of this version and after trying 10 takes to get base settings of the differences - I decided to record in real time to get the exact Midi/RealTrack balance I needed

I do this using the "What you hear" feature on soundcards like the SB X-Fi Xtreme Gamer and others - it takes more time than rendering but you only do it once

You can even do adjustments like decrease/increase volumes or fade endings whilst recording in real time
jazzman

Quote:

I decided to record in real time to get the exact Midi/RealTrack balance I needed

I do the same. I sing and play guitar so run everything through a mixer, then normalize the resultant WAV file (I use Audacity on another laptop to record). Final result is a reasonably good mix with volume equivalent to commercially mastered tracks.

I use a lot of intros from the original recording if I do the song in the same key, and have found that I have to reduce the volume from the commercial track by -10db to get it in the neighborhood of the volume in BIAB (with default 90 levels).

pete

Quote:

Hi rlefebvr,

I found this problem in the early days of this version and after trying 10 takes to get base settings of the differences - I decided to record in real time to get the exact Midi/RealTrack balance I needed

I do this using the "What you hear" feature on soundcards like the SB X-Fi Xtreme Gamer and others - it takes more time than rendering but you only do it once

You can even do adjustments like decrease/increase volumes or fade endings whilst recording in real time
jazzman

Hold on a minute :-)

I have the same card. ( probably on your recommendation ).

I will have to look in the book, I am not sure what you mean by record in real time.

Do you hit play in BIAB and then hit record in the "What you hear" window in SB or do you record somehow from BIAB.

I also have another question, I bought Coyoye Forte DXi. Do you still use the VST/DXi syth setting in the midi driver setup of BIAB or should I be using some sort of SB setting.

Ron

Hi Ron,

"Hold on a minute" - probably around 4 minutes this way!!

The X-Fi Xtreme Gamer card is very powerful and has a lot of features for audio creation and the enhancement of sound - which should be understood to get the best results

With BIAB open I also open the panel in Audio Creation Mode and run a BIAB tune to make sure that the volume settings are correct and various other settings -Reverb-Chorus-Compression-Parametric EQ are all giving me the sound I require - Stop BIAB song

I then hit Play on BIAB to start the tune then press REC on the Audio Creation Panel - after the real time recording has finished press Stop and then from the prompt message either Save to a designated file or Discard - the recording takes place entirely in the Audio Creation Panel and not in BIAB

Providing "What you Hear "is selected in the Recording setup then you get the recording as you want it

This method avoids all the balance problems with rendering levels and between midi and RealTracks and you can also manually fade in and fade out to suit

I do not use Coyote as for my use the sounds are not modern enough and therefore still use VSC DXi as my default soft synth - but having said that I use the bass and drums with RealTracks which also improves the quality of sound of any remaining midi VSC DXi sound

jazzman

That's what I thought you meant, Jazzman.

That's perfect and it works great.

I have some adjusting to do, but once I have it set up it should work great.

Must of my stuff is old time jazz for trio to practice with, so I only use the bass, drums and some jazz guitar.
I wish I had more options with the clean guitar, but what can you do.

I like to keep the midi base at times, as I find the patterns more useful then the ones from the real tracks, but only if I have to.

It's great on Sundays with the family and friends. Just me and my piano and my virtual band.

Thks for the help

Ron

Hi Ron,

Thanks - that's great

Once you have the settings and balance to your liking it will remain quite constant and therefore make this whole process more predictable

Like you I have various musicians around and enjoy days of music delight to which BIAB has contributed hugely to our musical education and enjoyment

I agree with you and have stated many times that some of the midi patterns are very useful when the RealTrack patterns do not get the whole feel - but I am sure that many more RealTracks will follow - but playing with the Realdrums and RealBass is as close as it gets to the real thing

If you would like to PM me then I will let you have an idea of my Audio Creation Control settings

jazzman

I'm glad I found this post. Thanks to all for the insight. I was having the same problems with rendering to WAV. Some of the tracks were almost non-existant. I couldn't find anything in the manual for making adjustments so I just used the "what u hear" option in WavePad to get by as a quick fix. Little did I know that's the option most of you are using. I got the results I needed. I also have SwitchPlus, so once I have a WAV file, I can convert to just about any other format. The other nice thing about WavePad is that you can edit the file before you save it in case your "timing" was a little off. You can trim the front and end to get rid of any "dead air" or the counting ticks.

Automatic "Rendering" is relatively new stuff.

If using MIDI synth(s) that are not DXi -- and capable of the Automatic Render -- you cannot use the "Render". Not if you want to get a wav file of what you are hearing from your synth.

And if you use a *hardware* MIDI synth, the only way to capture that is to arm an audio track and record the playback from end to end.

Which is exactly how studios do it anyway, whether using analog tape or digital pcm equipments.

You get more control that way.

You can do active mixing by adjusting mix controls during the playback to record, too.

--Mac

Hi geetarman,

Pleased that you found the way around the same problem and the main area is the unpredictability of the rendering process meaning that you cannot get the same result

However the "What You Hear" method is solid and for me it is quicker in the long run as you record it as it is, with mixtures of Midi and Audio

jazzman