Hi,

I am having multiple problems in this area with BIAB for Windows 2021 (822).

Things I have observed importing the attached simple melody into a new song:

1. File comes into the track looking incorrect (i.e. has displaying an incorrect triplet), then looks correct after I click away to another track and return.

2. When I apply a Realtrack Instrument and Generate the melody gets destroyed. (May somehow be my error, but why should applying a Realtrack instrument ever destroy musical data? I would assume that melody data would only be destoryed when the user explicitly requests it. Is that not right?)

3. Slightly different, I apply a Realtrack Instrument to the existing correctly displayed melody, which continues to display correctly, and *do not* generate, but the sound on playback is completely different from the actual imported melody.

I have yet to even once simply bring in the melody and have it display and play correctly with a Realtrack instrument (e.g. sax 2629).

If it's me, I really need some guidance.

OTOH, maybe the program is not working correctly?

My experiments are very simple, and I provide the file (with a recognizable melody) with great curiosity about whether others see the same problems I do!

Can you confirm for us how long you have been using BIAB? Much of what you are saying sounds like BIAB 101. For example, RT's can not play your midi melody. BIAB will overwrite many of the tracks unless the track is frozen. In fact each track has it own set or rules for when it is free to be overwritten.

You attached a midi file. You should be sending us the BIAB .mgu so we can see how and where you are putting it into BIAB. I looked at your Flintstones melody. By default it loads to the Utility Tracks 1 and 2 with melody on Channel #2 of Track #2. If you want to create an accompanying collection of RTs. You next have to lay out all the chord chart. Is that what you are doing??

Or maybe someone else will better understand what you are asking. Otherwise, I think the answer is yes.

Dan

Hi,

I attached a midi file because it is the result of importing that led to my issues/questions. If someone wants to duplicate my situation, the file allows that. Also, could the file be at fault? I don't know, that's why I ask and provide.

As far as correcting any misunderstandings might be concerned, please do!

However long I've been a customer (be it since yesterday, or since forever) what I'm doing now and where I'm at now is what I'm doing now and where I'm at now. I've made definite efforts to understand and solve on my own, but am still stuck and that is why I post.

Feel free to treat me like a 5 year old if you want, but kindly please! I am open to learn.

I loaded it and the midi file imports well so I do not suspect the file.




You have come to the right place - you will get no disrespect here. Welcome.

First, the midi data you have will not create a BIAB chord chart. It is monophonic, meaning only a single note melody - there is no chordal info. So we will need to input the chords to the song. Lets start there - I pulled them from the net. Although, that is only the beginning. I have a bit of free time this morning and will start and then upload. If anyone else wants to jump in, please do at any time.
After the chords the challenge will be finding a Style (tempo, groove, feel) that works with this up-tempo tune. Actually I don't think this specific example will be trivial. I am betting the guy who wrote this knew a thing or two about music. But lets see what happens.

Hi again.

In the original post, I simplified the question to just involve what I see and experience when importing the melody into a new song. My issues/questions 1,2 and 3 can be referenced right from that simple scenario I believe.

Items 1, 2 and 3 are what I see that I don't understand. I do get about needing chords to realize a whole song. That part is not a mystery to me.

re:

"RT's can not play your midi melody. BIAB will overwrite many of the tracks unless the track is frozen. In fact each track has it own set or rules for when it is free to be overwritten."

This is info for me to investigate. Especially "RT's can not play your midi melody.". That is completely contrary to the expectation I had formed in my mind, which may be completely incorrect!!

I will read more about RealTracks (RTs). I definitely did not know that RTs can't play back a Melody. Can RTs playback a Soloist? Offhand, I would not expect a difference.

Is it a matter of "RTs can only play info that was originally generated inside BIAB?"

Here are a couple BIAB 101 items.

RT's are audio (wav or compressed audio formats) files. The are comprised of snippets of anywhere from 1 to 4 bars, which were recorded by the artist in the form of rhythms or lead lines, when presented with a single chord or chord sequence. They are intended to accompany the chord. They know nothing about midi. The magic is there are a lot of these recordings and BIAB cuts and slices the audio to follow any chord chart that is provided. The Chord Chart is all they need and all they use.

BIAB, by default, will generate the whole slicing and dicing process every time you hit play in order to provide a different combination for output. There are ways to avoid this, but you need to understand that this can occur at any time on any of the 5 Basic tracks: Bass, Piano, Drums, Guitar, Strings. This will not occur on the Melody, Soloist or Utility tracks.

And finally for lesson 1, this program has a huge learning curve due to the 25 years of development and inherent complexity. Personally, everything I have leaned about working with BIAB was from the good folks here in the forum who have travelled this path before me.

Good descriptions, thanks!

FWIW, this is where I think an improvement could be made -

If you import a MIDI melody onto a track (e.g. the Melody track, or any of the Utility tracks) the interface that lets the user change that track from a MIDI track to a RealTrack is unchanged, despite the fact (I now know!) that a RealTrack cannot play the MIDI melody, and selecting a RealTrack instrument (rather than a MIDI or HI-Q instrument) will destroy the melody note information you have imported.

Nothing is greyed out, and there are no warnings - just a silent destruction of what you've imported. (IMHO, that should never happen!)

You can indeed prevent such destruction by Freezing the track after importing the MIDI, which is good, however, again, if you go thru the UI to select a RealTrack instrument your selection just silently does nothing (on account of the freeze) instead of raising an informational message such as "RealTrack instruments are not a valid selection for tracks containing MIDI data." or "Instrument changes are not permitted on a Frozen track".

Of course, new Wizardry to allow RealTracks to playback MIDI would moot all of this. <g>

sj1,

Welcome to the forum and to Band-in-a-Box. You bring up good points. As you wander throughout the forum sections you will find many forum members have mentioned the program interface can be improved.

Something to think about. Melodies are note driven however as primarily an accompaniment program Band-in-a-Box, or BiaB for short, is chord driven. Band-in-a-Box is the band playing behind someone playing or singing. Bands play chords, riffs and melodic phrases.

You can import a midi melody into Band-in-a-Box but you have to explain the song to the band; they have no clue. You tell the program, "Okay fellas we're going to play this in the key of "C", at a tempo of 150 beats per minute (bpm), with a four count and a swing feel. The style selects the time signature, instrumentation, tempo range and feel. You provide the root chord or key signature and chords.

Band-in-a-Box can import a standard midi file, or SMF, containing both the melody and song arrangement onto the melody or soloist track. When you import a SMF into one of those tracks the program will break out each instrument onto a midi channel if you desire.

More good info. Thanks Jim!

Well Dan,

300 BPM is certainly more than fast enough. A bebop style is a good style choice for the song. Fun to listen to.

Rhythm Changes with the Flintstones Theme - don't think that would have been my first guess. Now how do we get the midi melody to align with the backing??

Seems it would have been better to first have the backing and then play in the melody. In which case I would move to my DAW.

Hi,

The issue of imported melody alignment (getting it out of the lead-in and starting with bar 1 instead) was addressed here:

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=641507&#Post641507

Summary: Settings exist to allow importing a melody to the correct starting position, but it may require experimentation to accomplish.

As the OP here, I'll comment that Dan's experiment of starting with the melody and building the chords around it was the opposite of the path that got me into this. IOW, I had a chord progression and wanted to add an existing MIDI melody to it.

To me, both approaches are valid use cases.

I could have posted an unknown melody as the test case, but then no one could really tell for sure if it came in correctly or not.

The above discussion leads me to another question -

In BIAB, is there a way to move an existing MIDI track (e.g. Melody or Soloist) left or right? (e.g. by some # of bars)

Given an import that arrives intact but lands at the wrong location, being able to nudge it simply into the right location would be excellent.

Besides aligning an import, there could be other reasons also for wanting to shift a track left or right.

Check out the BIAB manual for NUDGE.

That's the idea alright. Thanks!

P.S. Seems to work sometimes, and sometimes not. I think Nudge may need a little QC attention.

I've used it a few times without problems other than it didn't always do what I expected. It may be that the instructions aren't clear, or more likely, it is doing exactly as programed just not what I wanted. Try changing the variables - plus / minus