As per Subject.

I have replaced a piano patch in BIAB with another from Kontakt player instruments.

If I load a song (in this case a .MG2) from the practice window and then change the piano track to use a piano from Kontakt player, at first it works normally, I can start and stop the song as many times as I like without any issues. If I save the song, close it and then re-load it, that's when it start to feedback! This feedback is internal. What I mean is, you can see the master meters rise up in volume without any speakers being switched ON.

It doesn't matter if I try to press the stop button... it carries on feedbacking.
If I press the space bar, the sound restarts the audio to a new feedback event.

If I continuously keep pressing the space bar very quickly for about 5 seconds, it then stops the feedback and I can then use BIAB, with the same plugin, without any problem. Everything works as normal.

I tried a different instrument, still within Kontakt 6 and I can repeat the issue.

I tried setting the audio to WAS and ASIO and the issue remains.

If I play the instruments within Kontakt (without using BIAB), I have no audio issues.

Using BIAB 2021 Build 835.

Anyone had similar issues? Also, Is there a Panic Button within BIAB?

Thanks.

I have now updated both BIAB 2021to build 838 and RB 2021 build 6 and the problem persists with BIAB. I did try the same procedure in RealBand and there it works just fine, so it must be to to with Bain In A Box.

Before the audio slowly increase to a feedback, there is a sound spike, above 0 bb, then the meters gradually increase in volume, from nothing to overload. The only way to stop this is to quickly keep pressing the spacebar. Then BIAB works fine.

I repeat that I have switched my monitors OFF and no audio is outputted from anywhere when this spike and feedback
occurs in either WAS or ASIO.

~ BUMP ~

Thanks for the BUMP.

I'm surprised that PG MUSIC haven't replied on this... I'll have to contact the tech support and lodge a ticket, as soo as I have time.

OK, I saved and opened a couple times with no adverse events to report. This is Kontakt 6 (current build) and BIAB 838 64 bit. Look closer at your routing. And by the way, as you see below, I use MME. For me, ASIO is only used when recording which I don't do in BIAB and WAS has always been problematic.

I have checked the routing and everything are correct.

What is different between Realband and Band in a box's Audio settings, because Kontakt 6 works OK in Realband! The same goes for Reaper. It is just BIAB.

The problem keep happening when Loading a song with the saved plugin settings. If I load any song and then changing a MIDI track so to use a Kontakt instrument, it changes it and play it with no problem. The problem occurs when re-opening\Loading the file. The initial spike is the audio CLIPPING and many times ALL audio within BIAB shuts down, so I need to close BIAB and restart it back again.

All of my Audio and video Drivers are up to date.

Did you switch to MME as I suggested??

Ha!

I have just changed the Audio settings to MME and all is good!!! Thank you for suggesting MME.

So, the problem happens when ASIO or WAS is selected.
Still, this does not explain why Realband is not effected when using ASIO or WAS.

Just to say, I did not needed to test your song as it worked with the other songs.

Glad you got it working.



To answer that, would be well above my pay grade.

This will bug me until I know the reason it happens.

You may want to contact PGMusic. They would be the ones whom have the answers.

I guess I have to.

The first thing they will say is.... Try resetting BIAB...

I hate submitting a ticket!

My guess. The way an audio signal flows through Band-in-a-Box and RealBand is different.

RealBand audio flows somewhat similar to a DAW which in turn is somewhat similar to an external audio mixer. The audio is routed in such a way that you can hear audio coming into the computer at the same time you can hear audio coming out of the computer. RealBand repeats your incoming audio and mixes the incoming audio with the computer generated audio.

Band-in-a-Box does not have the capability to repeat incoming audio while it is coming into the program. You record audio in Band-in-a-Box and you can not hear what is recorded until the recording is completed.

The difference in how the two programs handle audio means they also handle Kontakt audio output differently.

Switch to MME.

Thanks for your reply.
There must be a way for the tech to patch this in BIAB, surely!

I have switched the driver to MME but in this mode the audio momentarily stops, for only a few milliseconds, whenever I click on many sections of BIAB. If I try to adjust the volume on instruments in the mixer, the sound gets interrupted, the same if I click the notation button or click on the chord charts.

Man! BIAB is so frustrating!

Most times, I end up searching for troubleshooting things, rather than practicing. A truly love hate relationship.

biab-user..
lets get to the nitty grittys..
in a tech sense i would never try useing any fancy plug in in biab unless i had a really "beefy" pc with high speed ssd's and lots of ram. i use only low cpu useage plug ins in biab.
if i was useing threadrippers with ultra fast ssd's and a excellent audio driver device like RME and getting low RTL different story.

i have questions..as no details of your rig were given.
1. whats your processor ?? and whats its rateing on cpubenchmark.net ? i recommend at least a rateing of 10000 particularly for daw work useing lots of traks and plug ins etc etc... also in rb action>>>>test audio performance how many max traks does rb report ??
(just another clue on your rig.)
2. whats your sound device ?? cos your getting feedback.
check you dont have INPUT MONITORING checked somewhere ..
eg i think i remember i was getting feedback once useing a fancy schmany sound device with input monitoring set ON. for example you might regularly use IM in whatever
regular daw is being used..IF SO turn off IM when useing biab. see if feedback goes away.
3. you say all is fine in rb ..right ?
so please post a pic of both your rb settings as well as your biab settings for whatever audio device your useing please. so intelligent comparisons can be made.
therein might lie the clue.

as ive said many times before...both biab and rb need (like in reaper and other daws...) performance reports on plug ins as to processor useage . otherwise low power pc's will bog down once plug ins needing lots of processor or ram or disk resources are loaded.


best
old..nerdy...muso

ps..dan ..yep you got a i7/7700 a just under 9k rateing
on cpu benchmark if i remember.

What happens when you press the Kontakt MIDI Panic button. The “!” Symbol on the top right hand side of Kontakt. Does this stop the “feedback”. What channel are you using. It is very possible to confuse Kontakt by having a patch that allows multiple channels open with a mysterious note set on a channel not actually used. This signal may not be receiving a note off. Pushing the panic button will turn the note off, however, it will recur. Use Kontakt to determine what channels are coming in and set the patch to the required channel.

I’ve had several strange things happen in Kontakt usually fixed by ensuring the channel coming in is what the patch is set to.

Just a thought.

Tony

I can confirm that. A short blink of the audio.
I actually did not noticed until you mentioned it. However, when I removed Kontakt, I still was hearing that "blink" when I moved windows around during playing. This is a new observation for me and

I will move this specific item to a new thread as it is not related to the "audio feedback topic".

Hi. As already explained, the feedback is internal. No audio monitors and headphones are NOT ON.

There is no Input Monitoring activated anywhere.

The system is an 11th Gen Intel i7, 16GB Ram 1TB SSD.

I actually use this machine to record 16 simultaneous tracks Live in reaper for a Big Band and run a Bass and guitar DI in reaper, applying Helix Native amp and effects and returning the tracks back to the XR18 Mixer. All of this without any problems. The CPU is well under 10% usage. I also mixed over 75 tracks with each having several VST's in each track. Again, no problem in Reaper.

I am confident that the system can handle Audio.

The Audio clipping and feedback happens inside BIAB as Kontakt 6 show the correct metering movements, when BIAB meters show the feedback. When there is audio Spike\Overload, when loading a file with Kontakt plugin, the overload shuts down the audio in BIAB but pressing the spacebar to play the song, the meters in BIAB, show no activity but Kontakt shows the meters action moving as normal, and the arranger show normal bar movements.

Here are a couple of images of system specks.

Nothing happens in Kontakt when pressing the panic button. It's not a MIDI problem... No stuck notes, it's an audio problem.

Thanks for confirming this, Dan.

Hey! Do we get paid for running troubleshooting for PG Music? Free labour...

biab-user
ok.if your getting that performance in reaps, nice rig !
(i'm a reaps user btw for years..) your processor on cpu benchmark rates high...10600. ...GOOD.
just some shots in the dark.
1. do you have reaps open while working !n biab ?
not sure bout that aspect.
2. is there any chance the xr mixer ..and ive seen this before with usb audio mixers...
and feedback loops...
you might be getting some sorta feedback loop with the output from biab coming back into the mixer..
then back out again ?
ie maybe a routing issue ? so the sound coming back into the xr is going round and round ?
nice reaps performance. nice stats from rb too btw.

my betting..and i might get egg on my face ..lol...
is its something to do with the xr usb mixer routing returns from pc.
best
om

Good question. I can only answer for myself. I am recently retired from the day job. Well actually, retired, then back to work, then retired again. So I have been paid for services provided for over 50 years of labor. Time for me now to give back.

Sorry buddy, that egg is on is way... DUCK!!

No, I made sure to run BIAB on it's own. Tried Administrator privilege... no change.

I looked at the metering in the XR18, no activity of feedback. Anyway if that was the culprit, it would have happened also when playing any other song without Kontakt.

It could be to do with the 64 bit architecture. I tried to use BIAB 32 bit but I have failed to locate the 32 bit Kontakt 6 DLL file. I assume it will only work in 64 bit.

biab-user
got your egg..lol.
wifes throwing eggs at me now ...makes her happy lmao.
sorry..i'm out of ideas.

happiness.
om

Consider yourself lucky... it could have been tomatoes... in tins!

I have just updated BIAB to Build 840. for some reason the audio spikes because of overload but no feedback. I guess, if the audio is shutting down, there can't be feedbacks.

Hell... I have to use MME until this gets solved. Oh, I tried removing the cordless mouse's USB dongle. Didn't help.