First, let me preference this by saying I have always performed live with live musicians so I have NO experience with backing tracks. However, I have a much more varied repertoire than the musicians I know so opportunities to practice certain pieces and potential gigs pass me by that I could do solo with a backing track. For that reason, I am considering purchasing Band in a Box (Windows version) to make backing tracks to use for solo performances.

I already have my leadsheets in uncompressed Music XML format so I was hoping I wouldn’t have to recreate new tracks from scratch. It is my understanding that Band in a Box can import and create BiaB files from uncompressed MusicXML files.

The sheet music app on my tablet will play MP3 files when a sheet opens so this seems like the simplest & most logical way to play the backing tracks I create on cue from a setlist. My research also tells me BiaB will render MP3’s. I plan to output the backing track & my lead into a single powered speaker that is more than adequate for my situation.

The last hurdle is a click track and count-in. It is my desire to utilize a count-in and click track to stay on the page, as I will be working from sheet music. I was hoping to use my in ear monitor when performing with the click track in one ear and the backing track in the other.

Can BiaB render a two-channel MP3 file with just a count-in and click track on one channel and the backing track on the other? If not, how do I best accomplish that?

I did some research and assume I am correct in my belief the importing uncompressed MusicXML files and creating BiaB files from those and rendering MP3 files isn’t an issue with the latest version of Band in a Box.

Thank you in advance for any insight and suggestions and my apologies if these topics have been covered to exhaustion elsewhere on the forum pages.

Your research has been good.

I'm unsure about the click-track/backing-track arrangement you're considering as I always just use the two as they come. You could create a separate track for count-in, but there may be an easier way ... over to the others for that.

Importing XML usually works fine. There are one or two odd wrinkles occasionally. In particular I think BiaB still gets confused by cut-time. I've just been changing the original to common-time to work around that.

FWIW, observation not recomendation, I use MuseScore to create my leadsheets, export those as musicxml for BiaB and .pdf for MobileSheetsPro on a tablet.

Addendum: BTW, PGM are said to be very well behaved on their money-back-if-it's=not for you. Also, buying the entry-level (named "Pro") version and upgrading to UltraPAK or possibly Audiophile editions is usually slightly cheaper than buying an UltraPAK right at the start. Most people once convinced that BiaB is for them then upgrade.

Gordon:

Thanks for the reply!

First let me clarify if you misunderstood, I want to render a single MP3 file with Band in a Box that has one channel containing BOTH the count-in and the click track with the second channel the accompaniment. Whether BiaB can accomplish this by itself is an answer that has seemed to elude me in my research.

In regards to the XML files, I too use MuseScore and have always been in the habit of exporting the close to 2000 sheets I've created in MuseScore as uncompressed MusicXML files in addition to PDF's. In regards to the cut time confusion, is it the cut time symbol on an MusicXML score that confuses BiaB or 2/2 time in general?

Coincidentally I also use MobileSheets Pro. Its ability to play MP3's when a sheet is opened should work perfectly for my needs. To me the whole set-up appears to be easy and inexpensive as I already have most of what I need with the exception of BiaB, a DI box and a decent patch cable to go from my tablet to the Di box.

One solo gig might actually cover my start-up costs. However, I don't want to spend those funds unless I'm sure I can do what I want.

Any additional insight is appreciated!

Pretty sure that the answer is No. BIAB can pan a track hard right or hard left, but even if you could do what you want in BIAB, I think it's far easier done in a DAW.

ps You are far from clueless; as Gordon said, you did your research. And, nice user name. Welcome to the forum.

I understood OK. I'm presuming that you send the mono accompaniment to one ear and the PA and the click track to the other ear, so the audience don't hear it.

My initial reaction was like Matt's ... transfer to a DAW and pan/mix the tracks as you wish before rendering, but I think you may need a dedicated click track in BiaB for that ... it's easy enough to do, but it is an extra task. BiaB normally does the count-n on the drum track, so one may have to turn that off first.

I just held back a little wondering if there were any other, possibly better, options.

BTW, when importing XML and/or MIDI, sometimes one has to set an offset to get the notes/chords to start in the correct bar. When you do the import, you get a dialog box with the tracks and channels, and the offset tweaks are in the bottom right-hand corner. It's easy enough when you try it.

With very Windows' version of BiaB comes with a free DAW, RealBand (RB). You can bring in your song, add your click track, and still be able to generate backing tracks, i.e. you can add chords and generate songs like you can in BiaB. RB can read BiaB files so you can go back and forth between programs. You can also save you files in many different formats, including wav and MP3.

I do not use RB but many here do and have produced professional sounding songs and all will be able to help you if/when you run into trouble.

On a side note everyone here will help you.
This is the most friendly site on the web and many here have a ton of knowledge about BiaB, RB, music theory, etc and they all share their information.

MarioD:

I guess I could also generate an after-the-fact separate count-in and click track in Audacity, which I already use.

It is just an extra step I was hoping to avoid since from the get-go in order to make this effort pay for itself literally and figuratively, I will have to render MP3's for 85 songs in addition to dealing with the learning curve on the software and additional equipment and be ready to rehearse, create a demo and roll in two month's time.

Not impossible, but I have a day job...

I guess I'll add "generate separate channel count-in and click tracks" to my BiaB wish list...

Band-in-a-Box master tracks are rendered as a stereo mix. There is a setting to include a one or two bar MIDI generated count-in before the music starts. Most of the RealDrum audio tracks include a one or two bar audio count-in. So obtaining a count-in should not be an issue.

To have a metronome click on one channel and the instruments on the other channel the master track would need to be rendered as dual mono. Band-in-a-Box does not have the capability to render a master track in dual mono.

Audacity can convert a stereo track into mono, create a click track and combine two mono tracks into a dual mono track but all of that is additional work after the backing tracks are created and rendered.

If you're willing to give up the discreet click track you would not need to use Audacity and all of those additional steps. Band-in-a-Box provides a count-in and you can play or sing along with the music.

I know that I can do this is my DAW so please someone familiar with RB let us know if you can do this in RB.

In RB create as single track of a click track, then save it as a MIDI file. Load your BiaB song into RB, copy the single click track to a blank RB MIDI track, duplicate and/or truncate the click track to the end of the song, then save the song as a MP3. In my DAW the MIDI track will automatically sync to the tempo. So the question is can RB automatically sync tracks?

Just a thought as this way you would only need to create one click track and copy it to each of your songs.

Mario.

i'm not exactualy sure re what you want to do mate, and i'm not trying to be obtuse but there are many different ways to create a basic clik trak in rb as well as very fancy drum traks......and i dont want to put you wrong , thus i would fire rb up..and youll see
you can easily create midi and/or audio clik drum traks. and actually do pretty snazzy stuff eg lets say youve set a tempo of 120 and then laid down a clik trak...if you NOW change the tempo to 144..the trak will follow the new tempo. you can also cresate 'illusions' like a couple of drummers playing together..or a whole choir of drums..lol.

there are a ton of options in generating either//or//both
audio and midi traks. and yes create mp3. i really like the rb mp3 and use it often to post mp3's of my songs to soundcloud. theres just 'something' about the mp3 creeation in rb that sounds nice i cant put my figure on..but i like it.

best bet is to load up the bubba , KEY is to run tests right cliking on a trak, a long menu appears and away you go. and youll see many options mate..also go thru' the rb menus and youll see more options. there is even a handy simple drum pattern generator left over from the 'old days' that might be usefull. then you can plug in a drum vst.

i'm sorry i cant go into further cos this post would get really looooong mate like a book lol..

i hope above helps // ymmv. the prob is soo much to go into mate cos there are loadsa triks to discover in useing rb.

i would post one need/feature you want at a time...then the solution can be posted back.

eg i want to do "A" how do i do it sorta idea.

happiness.
om

om, I am not trying to do anything. I am just giving Appoggiatura a workaround for his problem.

Personally I have no problems with click tracks or drum tracks.

Mario.
i misunderstood. call it 'darn i'm getting older'...lol.

Appoggiatura .

maybe i'm being dense , but i'm unclear from the details given by you how to respond.

have you gone thru the realband (and biab i would suggest ) manuals in detail ?
on this site ?. if not i suggest it would be useful to do so as there are soooo many features
of each product. my suspicion is realband might meet your needs, i'm just not sure.
or the combo of biab and rb.
in addition you might want to explain your needs to pg support by phone..cos sometimes it can take lots of time on a forum to break down/describe ones needs.

another way as i said to mario is, break your needs into steps instead of the whole shebang.
ie firstly step 1 i want to do "A". then we respond. then you post back "ok".
now step 2 i want to do "B"....then we respond etc etc. this way a complete understanding of your needs can be clearly broken down and understood by all.

let me say in closing realband is a very very powerful , and i would suggest, an often very very underestimated program in its features imho AND it has nuances different from biab plus 48 traks you can do lots of neat things with, particularly its many intelligent 'generating features'..
BUT in order to get the best out of realband , like biab, you must be willing to spend time with it..cos it does sooo much. maybe do the 30 day pg trial and see if it meets your needs ?

hth/ymmv.

best

om

<< "Can BiaB render a two-channel MP3 file with just a count-in and click track on one channel and the backing track on the other?" >>

Yes. BIAB can render a two-channel MP3 file with just a count-in and click track on one channel and the backing track on the other without issue and no external software is necessary.

justanoldmuso:

It really isn't that complicated or hard to understand...

I have thousands of songs as MusicXML leadsheets that I was planning to import into BiaB in the hopes of creating Mp3 backing tracks.

So far, it is my understanding this is possible with BiaB alone.

The problem is, I want that Mp3 file to be in the format you get with most commercially produced backing tracks: two channels, one with just the backing track and one channel with just a count-in and a click track synchronized to the tempo.

The reasoning for this is I will be using in-ear monitors with the count-in & click track in one ear and the backing track in the other ear. The mix of my instrument and the channel of just the backing track goes to a speaker so the audience doesn't hear either the count-in or click track which is the way I want it.

As I have already spent thousand of hours creating the sheet music I have, I was HOPING BiaB could save me time by generating a count-in and a click track and render it as a two channel Mp3 file with the clicks separated from the music.

So far, it is my understanding this is NOT possible with BiaB alone.

It may not seem like a big deal to some to go through the extra steps to create a separate click track. However, saving time is important to me as I am looking to initially create 80-100 backing tracks for specific songs in as little a time-frame as possible.

If this is feasible, I have and additional 1000 I would create if it doesn't take me the rest of my life.

Appoggiatura, I have a question. If you are going to have BiaB generate your tracks why do you need a click track? I'm assuming that you play an instrument or are a vocalist. You stated that you have played with live musicians in the past thus you know how to keep time without a click track right? BiaB can generate a number of different count ins and the BiaB rhythm section will keep the beat for you throughout the song. So what am I missing?

PS, and after thought; are you a drummer? In that case you would might/need a click track.

More information would be very helpful.

Appoggiatura…

ok …clarified…now i have a better picture.

i might be wrong but it looks to me like you can use either biab or realband.

heres the relevant chapter in the rb manual re music xml import etc…..for you to read.

https://www.pgmusic.com/manuals/rb2022full/chapter13.htm

just read down a bit. as i said best to read the whole manuals for bb and rb to see if the products cover all your needs now and in the future..

heres a link to all manuals and there are a ton of you tube vids for both biab and rb.


https://www.pgmusic.com/manuals/

frankly imho i recommend there is nothing like doing actual hands on testing as i said before of a piece of software particularly due to how advanced a lot of the products have become. these products are very deep,

if you DO decide to get these pg products dont assume that just rb is included free with bb that its no good. maybe there is a feature you might not need right now but might in the future….realband has a lot of unique and deep and v useful features you might find useful..

and thats all i'll say in this thread.

om

Charlie:

How come this information has been so elusive, (at least for me)??

I assume this is in the BiaB manual somewhere??


As a total rookie in regards to playing solo with a backing track and no other musicians to cover-up rhythm errors, you might just say I am paranoid of screwing up in front of people.

Besides, I have watched more than a few musicians using backing tracks chasing the rhythm during a performance and I don’t want that to be me. Think of it as training wheels I may eventually give-up. However, for the time being my confidence will boosted a 1000% with a count-in and click track.

In other words I don't want to fall off my bike before I really learn how to ride it...


Thanks and thanks to all!!

It might just be time to bite the bullet and start playing around with Band in Box.

This is all somewhat overwhelming to someone who for most of his life played music acoustically or into someone else’s equipment and as a result is clueless about all things related to digital music production, sound equipment and related periphery.

And, I still have to figure out what else I need to buy and how to make it all work with the equipment I already have!!

You all have been very helpful, thanks again!!

OK, I did some playing around to find out how to do this.

Charlie may have a better answer, but in the meantime:

I do think you need to create a count-in and click-track, but I think you may need only one assuming you need only 3/4 and 4/4 time, as BiaB will automatically choose the right clicks out of the track to match the time signature and will automatically set the tempo. Doing that does mean you'll need to allow the usual two-bars at the start of every song so your count-in will play, and you'll need to turn off BiaB's count-in.

Drums default to stereo, but in the notation window toolbar there is a checkbox "Mono", which does what it says. Check it and the drum track is now mono.

You'll set up a utility track with the count-in/click stuff and pan that track hard one side, and you'll pan every other track hard the other side. BiaB should then render as Charlie showed.

There are several ways one could create the click track(s).
I think I would probably do it with a custom style that I would just set on that utility track, partly to get the count-in style I'd like, but there are a number of standard tracks that may suit just as they are. There are several advantages of making one's own style for this and it's fairly straightforward. Where you may want more than one is if you want your click track to have swing.

<<How come this information has been so elusive, (at least for me)??
I assume this is in the BiaB manual somewhere??>>

The features used to achieve these results are explained in the BIAB manual but there's no way that all of the possibilities to how features can be used could never be anticipated and explained in the manual. The PG Music Forums are the best resource.

The process steps are mostly the same as what's required to create a backing track/click track combo in a DAW using BIAB exported tracks.

Many instruments in a BIAB project are stereo and a step must be taken to convert any stereo instrument track to a mono track because as noted in earlier posts, the BIAB Master Track renders as a stereo track. A stereo track with panning will have audio at some level across both tracks causing two issues.

One, some of the accompaniment track audio will be heard on the click track and

Two, the accompaniment audio panned to the click track will be lost from the accompaniment audio broadcast.

These issue is resolved by making sure both tracks (Click and accompaniment) are rendered mono tracks.

There should be no audible difference between a backing/click combo track created in BIAB and one created using any DAW. Which to choose really depends on what workflow you're most familiar and comfortable with using.

Charlie

You're mostly spot on. I think the best way to create the click track is to use one of the several Metronome Styles included in the BIAB StylePicker.

I'm with Charlie - it seemed obvious and easy to me too.

Maybe, but the OP is not yet a BiaB user... and is checking before buying that it will do what he/she wants/needs.

My point was in relation to the slightly complicated options offered.

Understood and you're right. Some answers did seem to miss the point the OP didn't actually have BiaB and were talking through how it might be done with assorted DAWs. Well intentioned, but a little off-target.

Well I just bit the bullet and ordered BiaB and the other assorted hardware I need to realize my project.

I plan to start experimentation as soon as I receive the back-up flash drive with BiaB as I really don't want to use up that much hard drive space at the moment.

I'll update this thread with my progress and my methodology in the hopes of helping someone else and any additional questions I may have.

In the meantime, thanks again for the encouragement!!!

Great news and good luck. Take your time, watch the videos, review the integrated help.

There are also many helpful friends here if you really get stuck.

Well...

This is beyond frustrating.

All I can figure out how to do is import my MusicXML files into BiaB and render an MP3 backing track with NO metronome. When I enable the metronome, I can't figure out how to change the sound of it.

Figuring out how to create a click track IN BiaB is beyond my comprehension with what is available in searches on the Internet or the manual.

Do the steps involved really have to be this elusive?

Does this help?
Options - preferences - Count-in/Metro-

I tried that but nothing I do changes the sound of the metronome.

Hi Appoggiatura,

How are you getting the count-in/metronome, please?
I suspect it may be by the method MusicStudent mentions, but I think that doesn't get rendered.

I believe you need to set up a dedicated track, probably a utility track, and set up a style on that track. If utility tracks don't show on the mixer, click on the "eye" symbol bottom-right of the mixer and enable one. I did this on Utility#1, but Utility#16 might be a better choice.

On the mixer on the track, right-click and "Select custom MIDI Style...". . You'll get a dialog open. Use "Any Patch" and click on [Choose Style With This Instrument]. Type metronome into the Filter String and you should get a list of styles. Pick one, [OK], From Track: "Drums", OK.

I think that should be enough to get a metronome, but on my (slightly odd) setup, I also had to select "Plugins" tab on the mixer, click a track and "Choose Plugin", then choose a synth and a patch (Drums again).

Once that's done, after generating, I'm able to get the metronome on the rendered file.

I think you'll probably need to go to the Notation editor (Views->Notation) to change the notes to change the sound. The mono checkbox that you'll also want is top left on that window.

HTH.
Gordon.

Edit ... in the mixer. double-click the track name to set a name like Metronome".

Gordon:

After some frustration, a update download and reaching out to Support, I figured out how to create a Metronome as a utility track although I had to manually set the MIDI Track a 2nd time to 10 (DRUMS) which renames the track to DRUMS2 from PIANO which it was mysteriously named after the first try.

However, if I close the file and reopen it, it reverts back to being named PIANO however it still sounds as DRUMS.

Also if I attempt to rename the track, BiaB crashes with no way out except Device Manager.

I also get a similar crash if I attempt to bring any file other than a BiaB file into RealBand so that program is useless to me at present.

I guess I need to get back to Support but I am wasting a lot of free trial time and quickly losing enthusiasm...

Thanks for your help regardless!

30 days is far long enough to determine if you and BIAB are compatable. Just trust your decision at the end of that time.

Appoggiatura

i dont know if this helps cos i'm struggling to understand your needs.
(maybe i'm dumb , but ive done bout 90 songs useing biab.)
if you could elucidate further please.
eg step 1 i want to do x. or need 1
step 2 i want to do y. or need 2
step 3 i want to do z or need 3
etc etc.

as to metronome i dont bother with any metronome provided by any music software.
never have.
i always reserve the first 4 bars in a song for a custom metronome i make using either midi
or using pg real drums. other times my first 4 bars might be 'drum scatting' or 'solos'
like a real drummer might do in a live setting. sometimes i create longer drum solo song intros
eg 12 bars.
one reason i like realband also so much is i can do lots of neat stuff drum trak wise.
from simple drum clicks to complex drum traks.
the KEY is…
just right clik over a trak in trak view , and youll see a loooong menu.
in that menu are lots of nice features for doing drum traks//intros//custom stuff.
but you will need to spend time understanding each feature.

as to mid if you find a midi patch , if you try to change it, reverts to original patch its not bb's fault.
midi is just data. what often happens is someone has imported a third party midi song from outside biab (eg the net).. and the creator of said midi song embedded special commands in the midi data stream which you need to delete to do your thing.

have you done a lot of work useing midi ?

hopefully above helps a bit.

best
om

ps if your bb chord sheet starts with all instruments
right at bar 1. you can insert before bar 1.
eg if you want 4 bar lead off...insert 4 blank bars
so NOW instrumentation starts at bar 5 instead.
thus the 4 bar lead off can have anything midi or audio.
even if you want a lead off clanking a water glass..lol.

so now the instrumentation starts at bar 5.

I think some of the early attempted answers may have caused confusion.

As I understand it, appoggiatura wants to render output to an audio file such that it will comprise two tracks, with one track containing only the count-in/metronome and the other track containing only the music output from BiaB in mono.

The intent is, I believe, to send the single music track to the PA and so out to the audience, and send the count-in/metronome track sent to his earpiece, so that (s)he has a click track along with which to play. It's possible that the intent is to send both to the earpieces, but I think that's incidental for this purpose.

Gordon.

apologies...thanks for clarity.

unless i'm missing something its simple panning isnt it ?
a doddle ?
eg clik on left music on right of stereo ?

does he want the clik ONLY for intro or all way thru ?

does he want 2 files exported. ?
one for clik n' one for music ?

either way pg can do it. there are many options.

best

om

Yes ... once appogiatura, who is very new to BiaB, has suitable tracks to pan.
The built-in count-in/metronome does not get sent to the render, so (s)he needs a metronome track, for every song.

Firts an aside:
My setup here is a bit 'odd' as I run BiaB in Wine on Linux and a few things behave very slightly differently. One of those things is that I think the default synthesiser CoyoteWT doesn't work in this setup. On my setup I have to set another synthesiser. I think that won't affect what you do, but I'm not certain of that.

OK, here goes.
I started a new song and set up a simple 12-bar blues.
(I chose the RealTracks style _SURFEVP.STY, tough I think that's of no significance).
I have the mixer showing, so clicked the 'eye' in the bottom-right corner and selected to show Utility#16. If the mixer isn't visible, click the 'mixer' toolbar tab at top right).
On the mixer, ensure the 'Mixer' tab is selected.
Right-click on the text in the mixer and choose "Select Custom MIDI for....."
Leave the instrument set to "Any Patch" and click the button [Choose Style with this instrument".
In the filter string (top left), type "metron" or "metronome".
Choose one from the list .. I chose METRONM1, then [OK].
Back in the parent dialog choose the From Track "Drums" and click [OK].
In the mixer window, double-click the name text and type "Click" or whatever you prefer and click [OK].
Right-click either text on the same track and select Track Settings->MIDI Channel->10(Drums). (last time I didn't have to do that ... I'm not sure why that's now different).
Try the generate and play. Hopefully you'll get a click now.
Save the song as "clickSong1" or something.
Do a File->New, then open the ClickSong1 again (File->0 ...) and check the song still plays the click track.
I would now close and open BiaB again and open the file again to check that nothing gets lost.
If your sound disappears, read the extra bit below the line.

Don't forget that you'll need to go to the Notation view and set Mono for all tracks so that you can pan them suitably.

I can't at present see a quicker way to achieve the above, though hopefully if there is one, someone else will help. I think with only a little practice, it'll become pretty quick, though.

-----8<------------------

Right ... I think you don't need to do this, whilst I do, but just in case...
Because for me BiaB keeps reverting to CoyoteWT as the default synth and CoyoteWT doesn't work for me, I on the "Misc" toolbar I click MIDI->"MIDI/Audio driver setup" and in the mid-right I click on the button [VSTi/DXi Synth (CoyoteWT)] and choose "<VSTi> SynthFont VSTSynthFont64", then [OK].
For me, when I save and reopen the song, it works, but if I close BiaB, open it and reload the sone, BiaB has reverted to CoyoteWT, so I have to do that last bit over. I think BiaB is supposed to remember my default synth, but it appears not to do so on my setup.

Gordon:

First and foremost thank you for your continued help!!

Second, please except my heartfelt sympathy to you and you countrymen on the loss of HRH Queen Elizabeth II.

Third, I am a he (at least I was a few moments ago at the loo).

Here is where I am:

Before I purchased my BiaB 2020 ProPak, I contacted PG Music regarding the version I needed to purchase because I DID NOT want to install or run the program from my Windows PC. I asked a specifically IF I could run BiaB from the back-up USB flash drive and the answer was YES. I was told that ALL versions could be run from an external drive. I also watched the video that showed the options for installation.

It wasn’t specifically mentioned was that ONLY versions installed on external USB HARD DRIVES could be run externally, NOT the BiaB ProPak version with an extra USB flash drive that I purchased and paid extra for in the hopes it would suffice (and save me some money).

I'll leave it to the forum members to decide if I am stupid or this was somewhat misleading or incorrect information from sales...

What also was wasn’t explained is that I COULD have installed and run BiaB on an existing hard dive I already have connected to my PC. For that reason, I plugged in the USB flash drive I purchased, didn’t see any “Option 1 (Run from external drive)” so I installed it on my PC.

Fast forward to the last few days; for reasons unknown to me and PG Music Tech support, presently BiaB and RealBand crash constantly. BiaB will crash if I try to rename a Utility Track. RealBand will crash if I try to import or drag & drop any audio file. In addition, BiaB is displaying other erratic behavior.

So I have decided to try completely uninstalling BiaB from my PC (for a 2nd time) but this time reinstalling and running it from an external hard drive which I was told would be the same thing as if I had originally purchased a MegaPak with an external drive.

IF this resolves my crashing issues, I will try some of the other steps you outlined to see if they get me the results I am after.

I will report on any progress or lack thereof after the uninstall/reinstall.

In the meantime, thanks again!!

Hi Appoggiatura,

Thanks for your sympathy regarding the Queen. It all feels very strange at present. I'm 70 and I've only ever been, until now, in a country with a queen.

Thanks also for clarifying 'he'. I try not to presume anything, but that can sometimes be fraught.

I believe BiaB should run fine from an external drive, whatever the version, though a fairly fast quick such drive would seem sensible. If I'm wrong, then you can still move the big folders (e.g. Drums, RealTracks) to an external drive ... Tell BiaB where via Prefs-RealDrums->Custom Folder and Prefs->RealTracks->Custom folder.

Your crashing issues are another matter. Hopefully you and tech support will resolve that.

You might say what the CPU is. In a completely different context/software I've heard of issues with AMD ThreadRipper CPUs, though I've not heard of issues with BiaB.

If you haven't tried the on-line chat for support, it's often a good way to deal with things. With PGM, you get a real person and usually one of the people who give support in the fora.

Good luck with getting a resolution. BiaB is a great application if sometimes rather arcane.

Appo.

re crashing.

it would help pg users help you, so we are not 'flying blind' to know the following...

1. your sound device.
2. your biab and rb settings for drivers.
3. if the sound device has a user control panel what the settings are.
4. your windows recording n' playback settings includeing advanced tab.

obviously pics posted back for items 2 thru 4 would be most helpfull. pictures of settings will also help pg support.

fyi no problems here with pg paks.
i currently run straight off the pg ultrapak which ive backed up several times in case the drive crashes.

best

om

ps thanks re queen. fyi a past member of my family now demised once did work for buck palace.
all i know is they were treated very well.

Gordon,justanoldmuso, et al.,

Major progress and a major headache to go along with it!!!

I uninstalled BiaB from my PC and reinstalled it on an external hard drive, did the latest patch and update and the crashing I was experiencing if I tried to rename a utility track is no more!!

This could have been less about where BiaB resides versus my own impatience when installing software and my previous reluctance to close other applications and stop fiddling around when I did the install which I did do this time. Regardless I plan to leave things as they are and where they are for now.

As a result I was able to successfully create a Utility click track using a Metronome style, rename it, save and close the file, close BiaB and reopen both the program, the file with the Utility Track, the name I gave it and the function retained...

JOY!!

What is still eluding me is total track separation between the Utility Track and the rest of the tracks, in this case 4 other instrument tracks.

I went to the Notation view and checked the box that says MONO, (although I don't quite understand why this changes any existing track to mono based on what pops up when I hover over the box).

Regardless, all the tracks have the box checked and on the mixer I set the pan on the individual instrument tracks far left and the pan for the metronome track far right and rendered an MP3. When I open the MP3 file in Audacity, the Metronome track is all by its lonesome as the right channel, however it is also heard in the left channel.

Not sure if I did something wrong, I did an experiment and muted the instrument tracks but not the metronome track and rendered another MP3. This time it showed just the metronome but on both tracks.

I also checked each channel using the Audio Record button in BiaB and the Vu Meter clearly shows that ONLY my Metronome Utility track is stereo even though that style appears in the Style Picker as mono.

In other words despite the Metronome style being mono, the pan full right and the channel being set to mono, it is rendering stereo. Hopefully, I am missing some simple step to have that Utility track only sound on one channel or I made an error when I created it.

Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated!!

Getting close!!

Good


Well that sounds wrong, but I get the same.

I tried setting up a click track on the Melody track instead, figuring that you're playing the melody (presumptuous!).
The click track there does pan left and right.
I did it again on Utility#15 and again it works, so I think Utility#16 has a bug.

Try yours again, please, but on Utility#15 and see if yours also behaves as it should.

Edit: ... I've emailled support on this. GS.

Gordon:

I tried several different Utility Tracks including #15 & the Melody Track and the behavior is the same.

On my version regardless of the mono track settings OR the pan settings, the output as displayed on the VU Meter is Stereo for any track enabled as Metronome/Drums.

Might be something for tech support once my headache subsides...

Mine behaved differently when I first tried it and then most reverted to stereo.
I'm just sending an .MGU file to support now.

At least it's not just me...

Thanks again!

Nope, not just you.
Watch this space.

Gentlemen.

hope this helps . heres what i did. its 'fiddly'.
as far as i know the following method achieves the op's
requirement. ie a clik on one side of stereo image (no instruments) and instruments on other BUT no clik trak.

1..i disabled completely the bb built in metronome.
2..i inserted 4 bars custom lead in to song chord sheet…read the rest....SO the 4 bars is a CUSTOM LEAD IN NO MUSIC.
note utility trak isnt muted.
3..i loaded a rd tambo into a utility trak (you can use any rd you wish or whatever)and using f5 i muted all instruments at bar 1, and unmuted all at bar 5.
NOTE thus the tambo on utility or whatever loop used starts at bar 1.
4..before genning i panned utility tambo clik to one side eg left, and all music right minus clik.
5..i genned all. and verified tambo slik.tarts at bar 1 and all other traks // instrumentation start at bar 5. and everything panned right.
ie left tambo clik , and right no clik just all instruments.
6..i then mixed to mp3 as a test, and verified again the mp3 had clik only on left side and all other instruments only on right hand side. (no tambo clik)
(BIG NOTE…i assumed the clik tambo on left hand side is required to run thru' whole song ? if only needed in 4 bar count off bars 1 thru' 4 then just edit in audio edit before mixing to mp3.)

phew ..lol…i hope this is what is needed. if not apologies …i got egg on my face and i'll need further detail on the op's needs.

BIG NOTE THERE WAS NO BLEED OF TAMBO CLIK ON LEFT HAND OF STEREO IMAGE TO THE RIGHT HAND OF THE STEREO IMAGE.

apologies once again if ive misunderstood the op's need.
the IMPORTANT ASPECT IS TO DISABLE BIAB's built in metronome...AND CREATE YOUR OWN CUSTOM LEAD IN BAR(s)..
ie 2 or 4 or 8 bars whatever the no of bars needed for
lead in with only clik before the music kicks in.

if someone has a better method feel free.

happiness

om (i love challenges lmao)

The behaviour is decidedly odd ... I've just done similar with four click tracks, one on the melody track and three on Utrility tracks (#1, #15, #16). panning them alternately left and right. Generate.
When I now solo each click track in turn, they're all panned to the same side.

Ich verstehe das nicht.

Gordon.
(ADDENDUM)

no all is good and works here as it should, it was a 'typo' i was tired.

correcting point 4 now.

ps i think i might have found the source of the issue.
when loading a single clik sample rd into a utility trak ENSURE ITS MONO NOT STEREO. you can put the word SINGLE into rd picker search at top.

just make sure you choose one thats mono.
BUT some hits/samples might be stereo. << hence a prob.
so when you choose a hit like that even if you pan...
might go pear shaped.

gordon lets work withe same sample/example....

1. select util trak 1.
2. bring up rd picker and enter "SINGLE' at top.
3. voila all single hits appear.
4. choose a simple sound for clik eg ELEC HATS4'sSINGLE
and load into util 1. and generate after setting pan extreme left for example. ie opposite of the pan of the music traks.in this example music panned right.
5.after genning youll see its only in left channel.
and music on right channel. et voila.

hth.
get back to me s'il vous plait..lol.

om

In the meantime, I think it works as expected on the melody track, so I would put it either there on on one of the other 'legacy' tracks (1...6, i.e., Bass...Melody).

OM's answer is better!

Select a Utility Track,
Right-click on the text and select "Choose RealDrums..."
In the Search box top-left type Single.
Select one from the list (OM used ElecHat4s(single), so I did the same, and click [OK]
Generate and pan to taste.

BTW, I noticed that the Utility track panning seemed to match the Melody track panning, which is probably another clue for the developers.

Gordon and App and pg support.

please tell me where to upload my biab song file to.
a free site where i wont get a virus and dont have to create an account.etc..and youll see it works by downloading it.

it will show all the settings ...metronome/mixer/patch/panning etc etc.

note...once app is familiar with realband gordon this would be a doddle in rb. cos can easily create ones own custom clik ttraks etc etc. even foot stonps or anything really as a clik...lol.

yawn waking up.... 5 am here...what i do for music...lol

happiness

om

I think you don't need to ... It appears to me a Custom MIDI track problem. As you indicate, RealDrums seem to work OK.

Gordon.

i took it further.

1. kept electro on a utility trak eg 1.
2. on util 2 loaded loop funkrokpunk.

both above panned same.

worked also.. and for even more fun imported a audio loop i made in realband onto util 3. panned same way.
got a nice funky thing going lol.

best

om

justanoldmuso & Gordon:

Thank you again for working on this issue!!

Using the RealDrums resolved the stereo/panning issue on my test song however, the only RealDrums choice I see when I filter using the word "single" is CongasShuffle. I assume this is because I only have the Pro Version?

In any case, it works but it is not an adequate choice for my application.

However I tried revisiting the "Gordon" method using a Style found on this thread:

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=490008

I loaded it into Styles and used the Select Custom MIDI Style option outlined by Gordon further up the thread and the same issue we had using other MIDI Styles for Utility Tracks occurred meaning 2 channels, panning not doing anything.

I would assume this means that any MIDI Style assigned to a track using that method will not work so maybe it is a bug of some sort. That is too bad because that "Clicktrk" Style is perfect for my needs.

I have a gig this afternoon so I really don't have time to experiment further today so I'll stay tuned, experiment some more tomorrow and check in again.

In the meantime, thank you again!!

Ah, probably. That's a nuisance.

I think it's very likely that you (or someone) can make a RealDrum track especially for this task if a bug-fix takes a while (as it probably should, with testing)

I'll try to take a look later, unless someone else chips if first with something.

There's information in the manual pages 340 on. It looks more complex that I'd imagined as one needs to create a text file containing the patters. That said, the pattern you want is very simple.

Thanks!

I'll give it shot, all I have to lose is a lot of time and my sanity.

But you have a fair chance of losing both.
It's not trivial, or if it is, the description of how to do it is otherwise.

There's a PGM video, but it's 35 minutes long, the voice is rather distorted and/or sibilant and it has music playing over most or all of it. It was giving me a headache. It's here, but... https://youtu.be/whA6FpEl5w8

It's probably quicker to just try the RealDrum styles you have until you, hopefully, you find something that is close enough for now. Not a great answer, I'm afraid.

Another option might be to use the on-line chat and see if PGM can supply you with a suitable RealDrums.

Gordon.

i just created a mono old style clik in reaps and imported into a bb utility trak. and concept works panning etc etc with music in bb.
and when i change tempo ...all good in bb.

i just dont know what tempo n' feel app wants. etc etc.
the one i created was standard 1 2 3 4. 4 to a bar even.

anyhoo just wanted to mention it in case app gets stuck..


best/hth/just trying to help.

om

So is that and audio track that BB will squeeze/stretch to tempo, or a MIDI track?

The OP wants to put click track on a very large number of songs, though of necessity they'll be done over time.

G.

BIAB can and will render a stereo file with just click on the left track and all accompaniment mix on the right track. The channel signals should be routed to two mono channels in the PA mixer with the click panned hard left to monitor out and the accompaniment panned hard right to the main out. It doesn't matter if the click source is MIDI or audio. However, the file, even converted from stereo to mono fed into a stereo output results in a blend of the left and right channels.

Gordon and App.

METHOD A.

Not trying to be a 'smarty but MIDI SUCCESS gordon.

steps…(its fiddly)..NOTE not a audio clik…midi clik cow bell triggering pg sfz plug in.

1..outside of bb i created same midi note 1 2 3 4 for x bars triggering sforzando plug in.
and tested.

2..i then imported cow bell midi into bb to a utility trak with pg sfz plug in used. and sfz jazz kit triggered by the midi notes.
i panned cow bell left and music right. NO LEAKAGE from cow bell.

3..genned of course on playback midi cowbell played first 4 bars i set up alone on left side.
then music comes in at 5th bar on etc …on right. left has cowbell , right has music no cowbell.

ps can change tempo or key change.
cowbell and music obviously change with tempo change to new tempo.
but sound of cowbell dont change with tempo or chord change.
success !

notes.
1..you can have cowbell (or another midi triggered sound) not play once music comes in gordon as an option via editing of course.
2..i could have used bb piano roll..if i wished. (i really wish there was a bars view like in realband….i miss it in bb).

i dont think ive missed anything and HTH.

bottom line midi clik cow bell triggering on left and
all music on right channel. phew.
i think this meets his needs.

if wife n' i ever get back to blighty a pint ? lol.
--------------------------------------------------

METHOD B.

1..open realband. (rb) (note rb has bars view that is useful for editing.)
2..load in METRNM1 style.
generate midi clik on trak 1
3..export midi trak from rb to biab utility trak.
so now bb utility trak has midi clik.
4..load up sfzorando (jazz kit) on utility trak and using bb piano roll can get loads of different clik sounds eg ride//block//whatever.
5..as before pan clik left and music all right.

NOTE …i had a really 'wacky' interesting fun clik trak by using various utility traks…each one with different sound triggered by midi etc etc.

hth…

now wifey is telling me its late n gotta watch 'everything goes wrong show' on pbs..a hoot sortas like monty python ..then its sleeps…lol.


happiness.

om

That's pretty much where we started until someone sensibly mentioned the metronome tracks, which are MIDI.

Perhaps there's something odd about the way BiaB handles specifically the metronome tracks. I note that they seem to already include a count-in, which may make them 'special' (flawed).

For appoggiature:

"Load up sforzando" ... on the mixer choose the "plugins" tab, click on the descriptive text, which probably says "->default synth", "choose plugin", "<VSTi Plogue .... sforzando".

Oh yes ... I guess this would now want the count-in bars added at the front and xml/MIDI imported two bars later.

You guys are sure working hard. Here is how you put the click on a track in Reaper. Best I can tell that is what you are trying to do. I suspect it is just as simple in any other DAW. But of course we all know that BIAB is not a .....

[video:youtube]https://www.google.com/search?q=record+c...IptQP6_-uqAM_43[/video]

Gordon n' Music Student.

its fiddly any way one slices it imho to meet app's needs.. ive tried many ways.

going back to powertraks (before getting into biab/rb) that i started on years ago i always did my own metronomes.includeing any other music software i used in the past.
i always ignored the built in metronomes. cos then i could move my own custom ones around tween different software i might be using and thus as the commonality was the custom metronome…it made things easier i found.


these days i either build my own metronome in either reaps (yep using clik trak//samples..
and other ways in reaps or realband.).

i gave apps' need a good old college try..lol.

as i said it works here with the panning. its just 'fiddly' to get there.

(ps sometimes i just load/insert the clik trak in reaps onto a reaps trak and replace the clik with audio sample(s) etc.)

best

om.

What is a shame, at least in my eyes is there isn't a simple way to do the one and only thing I HOPED Band in a Box ALONE was capable of before I purchased it. I don't know if I would have NOT taken the plunge had I realized it wasn't easy as I hoped (along with discovering other inconsistencies with MusicXML importation), but regardless I am disappointed.

While many BiaB users may not desire what I am after, I know I am not alone in the world of backing track users in needing tracks with a metronome click on one channel only. You only need to see all of the videos out there on how to do it with a DAW to confirm what I am saying.

I am also having crashing issues with RealBand so I haven't investigated if bringing my BB files into it and creating a separate channel click track in RealBand is an option....

Regardless, I appreciate all of the time and effort members of the Forum have expended to try and help me because I am NOT one of those people who likes to take the easy way out and ask a lot of "how-to" questions on forums. Instead I seek the answers myself and only cry for help when necessary. However, Internet searches for answers to my BiaB questions most often were outdated, not relevant or left me more confused. The PGM Support Chat wasn't of much help either.

However, I am extremely appreciative that the Forum members at least taught this thick headed newbie how to create a BiaB audio file rendered as a single channel.

So after a Popeye "that's all I can stands... I can't stands no more!" moment; I discovered that with a few clicks, I can bring that BiaB rendered single channel audio file into Audacity, generate my count-in and click track on a separate channel and export what I am after in a minute or two...

...AND I didn't have to spend any additional funds for a DAW!!

Not what I wanted to have to do, but a LOT less aggravation than trying to get BiaB to do something it apparently can't do as easily.

So in the meantime, this is the way I am going to get what I need from BiaB so I can at least use it and have some chance of completing this backing track project by the end of October and hopefully making some money from my efforts in December.

I hope at some point, the issue with the BiaB MIDI Metronome Styles not working in mono is resolved because that would be perfect and make my whole process even easier. But with a work around, I can wait to see if that happens.

Once again, thank you ALL for all of the help. It IS appreciated!!

I'll be around...

Cheers,


Nick

I've read through all of posts of this thread to try and get an idea why there was such an issue with using Midi Metronome or ClickTrk Style in BIAB.

The issue seems to be the click track and the accompaniment track are in stereo and need to be converted to mono.

The good news for those who may wish to give it a try, it's super easy and fast to do in BIAB with just a few clicks. BIAB has a button designated expressly to do it.

Here's how to create the Midi stereo click file and convert it into mono using BIAB:

Create and save the current project
Load a MIDI Metronome or the ClickTrk.Sty Style into BIAB set the tempo to desired bpm.
Rt. click on the drums track and from the drop down menu
Click on Track Actions and from the drop down menu
Select - Save Track as Performance File (Wav/M4a)

This action quickly converts the midi click track into a audio file and saves it into the same folder where the project SGU file has been saved to. In addition, when the play or generate button is pressed, the drums track labels turn orange and the track is renamed to Artist, indicating the track now contains an audio Artist Performance file. Select the Drums Track on the Mixer and then press the Audio Editor Icon to open the Audio Editor and the click track is now a visible stereo wave form on the Drums Track in the Audio Editor.

To Convert the Stereo wav form to Mono:

Open the Audio Editor and be sure the Drums Track is selected and click wav form is visible
Click the Editor Button and from the Drop down menu
Select Convert Channels - and from the Window Dialog window that opens
The defaults are set for each channel at 50 - Keep these defaults and
Click OK and the stereo track is converted to mono at the 50/50 ratio.

At this point, I recommend to also click the Edit Button and select Normalize and normalize the mono track -3 or -6 db.

The Click Track is now Mono.

To move the Artist Performance File from the Drums Track to another Mixer Track and return the Drums Track to normal use:
with the Drums Track selected
Edit |Copy Special| Copy Move
In the Copy Move Dialog Window
Unselect all Midi channels
Set the MIDI Box to Do Nothing
Set the Audio Box to Copy to destination track
Select the desired new track to copy the Artist Performance File audio to re: Utility Track #1

Charlie:

I tried this method, set up a metronome and/or use clktrack as a style and get nowhere...

Try as I might, this step: "Select - Save Track as Performance File (Wav/M4a)" does nothing and NONE of this happens:

"This action quickly converts the midi click track into a audio file and saves it into the same folder where the project SGU file has been saved to. In addition, when the play or generate button is pressed, the drums track labels turn orange and the track is renamed to Artist, indicating the track now contains an audio Artist Performance file. Select the Drums Track on the Mixer and then press the Audio Editor Icon to open the Audio Editor and the click track is now a visible stereo wave form on the Drums Track in the Audio Editor."

And when I view the track in the Audio Editor, there is no visible audio there, yet I can hear the click when I press the play button...

Originally Posted By: Appoggiatura

Charlie:

I tried this method, set up a metronome and/or use clktrack as a style and get nowhere...

Try as I might, this step: "Select - Save Track as Performance File (Wav/M4a)" does nothing and NONE of this happens:

"This action quickly converts the midi click track into a audio file and saves it into the same folder where the project SGU file has been saved to. In addition, when the play or generate button is pressed, the drums track labels turn orange and the track is renamed to Artist, indicating the track now contains an audio Artist Performance file. Select the Drums Track on the Mixer and then press the Audio Editor Icon to open the Audio Editor and the click track is now a visible stereo wave form on the Drums Track in the Audio Editor."

And when I view the track in the Audio Editor, there is no visible audio there, yet I can hear the click when I press the play button...

The wav file will be visible in the Audio Editor once the Artist Performance File has been created. The click is still audible because the track still has midi data active and also if the Performance File has been created because the midi track and Artist Performance Track will be synced and play doubled. My post indicated the click data to be on the Drums Track. That should be the case but just be sure to select the track that has the click midi data.

The Artist Performance Track feature has been around since at least 2015 for PC and Mac and is a rock solid feature and there's no bug that I'm aware of. Any media on a track can be converted to an Artist Performance File. It works with MIDI, SuperMidi, recorded audio and RealTracks and RealDrums. If you're hearing the click track, it should be possible to convert it to an Artist Performance File.

Some things to look for that may be the cause of your issue:

The SGU project must be saved before the Artist Performance File feature will activate. The normal procedure is for BIAB to give a prompt message advising to save the project if your project hasn't been saved. BIAB renders, names and saves the Artist Performance File audio in the same folder as the project. This action causes BIAB to load the audio track automatically whenever the project is opened.

The Artist Performance Track appears once the BIAB project's Play or Generate and Play buttons have been clicked on. The track color and labels change requires the song regeneration to activate. Be sure the Audio Editor is displaying the correct track the click data is on. The Audio Editor defaults to displaying the Melody Track when it's opened unless you've highlighted the correct track first in the Mixer.

If none of the above corrects the issue, list the steps you take and post them here and we can diagnose what's occurring or do a Return To Factory Settings option that's located in the Options Menu.

I can't think of a reason that right click on the track with the Click on it and selecting Track Actions, Save Track as Performance File should not be working. I tested the steps I detailed here on my system and all seems to be working..

Appoggiatura,

Did you generate the tracks and then right click in the audio mixer where the instrument name is located to bring up the track pop up menu?

I can't tell you the number of times I've been so focused on performing a task that I've forgotten to generate tracks before performing the task.

Here is a real time video showing how to create a click track for any BIAB song, convert the click from stereo to mono, move the track to a Utility Track and render an Mp3 with accompaniment on one track and the click track on the other.

There's no narration, just the demonstration.

EDIT: Link updated to YouTube upload

YouTube - BIAB Click Track Video

Fantastic effort Charlie. Many thanks.
Perhaps a good one for the tips and tricks section also? This is worthy of its own title.

Thanks for the suggestion. I uploaded the video to YouTube so it could be a permanent link and posted it in the Tips and Tricks Forum.

Tips and Tricks Link

I couldn't find the clictrk.sty file after searching hard, but I have some metronome*.sty files. Run the demo with it and it worked. If someone can tell me where to find this clictrk.sty, thanks in advance.

It's found deeply embedded in an earlier post in this thread:

Clictrk.sty Link

Ah yes that one had escaped me, thank you very much!

Charlie:

Thanks SO much for the instructions & video!!

That method works although while looking to resolve another real or perceived issue, I may have come across another way that may get similar results.

(My apologies for the novella that follows):

During some experimentation converting the generated click-track to mono using your method from the "Audio Edit" view (Edit>Convert Channels>Convert Stereo to Mono), I discovered that the OTHER tracks were still stereo and couldn’t be converted using this method.

However, if I pressed F7 taking me to the “Track Settings and Actions” window and highlighted a stereo track; if I checked the box “Editable Audio,” I could then convert the channel to mono via the "Audio Edit" view.

This action turned the track ORANGE like your method (Track Actions> Save Track as Performance File (Wav/M4a) without having to save the file first.

So, I did another experiment and revisited the click-track method Gordon introduced me to back on Page 2 of this thread. That method was to pick a "Utility Track", right click and choose “Select a custom MIDI Style for this Track” from the same right click drop down menu. In my previous experiments I chose Metronome 1.

While yielding a suitable click-track, the problem we had was even with hard panning, the resulting click was stereo despite appearing to be on one channel only of the rendered MP3.

With no disrespect intended, this stereo/bleed through result also confirmed my suspicion of the inaccuracy of the suggestion that mono conversion of Mixer channels was achieved via the “Mono” check box on the “Notation” view screen. To me, this result implies the "Mono" check box has nothing at all to do with how an audio file is rendered.

But what do I know...?

Ignoring the previous "mono method"...

Instead, after following the same steps choosing a custom MIDI Style, selecting the Drums Track, etc.; I went to this MIDI Utility Track via F7, checked the “Editable Audio” box and what I previously thought couldn’t be converted to mono… could.

So after all of this bloviating, I assume my "orange" result is the same as the "Charlie" method using a "Performance File?"

If so, this bring me to another real or perceived issue…

To refresh the memory of anyone still awake and interested, the result I am after is a rendered two channel MP3 with the click track on one channel and the accompaniment on the other with NO bleed through.

In a test, I rendered an MP3 from a created BiaB file with center panning. After enlarging the resulting channels and looking closely at the waveform on the two tracks, to my uninitiated eye they are NOT the same. There appear to be subtle differences that to my pea brain indicates a stereo rendering.

That leads me to believe that simple hard panning those instrument tracks left while panning the click track right would result in a loss of some of the overall audio on the left track.

When I compare that test MP3 to another test MP3 with hard panning of the instruments channels to one side, listening to each separately my ears are telling me I am losing some of the highs from at least one of the instruments in my mix on the hard panned MP3.

Am I correct in this assumption or are my eyes & ears playing tricks on me??

If so, is there some OTHER method in BiaB to achieve true mono on those instrument channels before hard panning and rendering an audio file other than individually making each track “editable” and converting the individual channels to mono via the "Audio Edit" view? While this method works, it adds several other steps to the process.

I’ve also experimented with creating the mix, rendering it as a single track mono MP3 via the "Audio Export" function (which I assume combines the channels) and importing it back into my song as a mono utility track.

This method seems to be a little less cumbersome once I get used to the steps involved.

Am I finally getting close?

Thanks again Charlie, Gordon and everyone else!!!!

If you have a windows machine, just open the file in Realband and pan the desired tracks to the desired output .. no bleed or confusion, as long as the Click isn't being generated by the metronome and exists on an actual track.

I hesitated to get into this thread earlier because I wanted to see the BiaB solution suggestions, but I suspect BiaB, with its built in reverb etc is going to have *some bleed .. though I am still hoping to be proven wrong.

FWIW many of us here simply move to RB for this type of work since it seems to be much simpler .. as long as you are on Windows, as Mac doesn't include RB and I haven't scoured back to check your version/OS.

I'm glad things are working for you.

Regarding crosstalk (bleeding between channels) you're correct about it with BIAB. BIAB always renders a stereo which in the case of dual mono results in merging the two tracks to achieve a mono output.

However, the click track and accompaniment track can be generated separately so each track is a complete mono audio file that can be compiled either in BIAB or in a DAW or audio editor. Then with proper routing of the file into a mixer or dual channel PA, sending each mono channel to a discreet and different amplifier output there should not be any crosstalk like the example from Rharv with using RealBand. In short, creating the tracks using BIAB can make a true dual mono file but as you discovered, there are additional steps to ensure there's not any merging of the files when rendering.

Charlie

I'm glad it worked out OK and sorry that it was harder and more frustrating than I (we?) anticipated. I haven't yet heard any more about the panning flaw of the metronome MIDI styles on Utility tracks.