Freelance Musicians Hear Mournful Coda as the Jobs Dry Up

thanks guyssss.

when I used to play the clubs in the early days it was always live backing eg drummer and organist.Then came backing tracks and after a few years live backing disappeared Im afraid thats progress for you.frankie

Sad yes Sam, but nothing new. Remember we had a long discussion about this last year? I gave you numerous examples and personal experiences. Trying to make a true career out of music is practically impossible outside of teaching. Music as a sideline with a real job that actually pays the bills, maybe. That article talked about the top 3 colleges in New York graduating 500 people a year. Want to talk about LA and the UCLA School of Music, USC, Grove, how about Boston University and Berklee, U of Texas at Austin, the schools in Nashville and all the conservatories in Europe? Thousands and thousands of highly skilled music grads a year chasing what, 200-300 studio gigs and 100 orchestras worldwide? Everybody else plays coffee shops and private parties or some local bar for a hundred bucks twice a week if they're lucky. If you can marry the girl singer and double the family income, that can work.
It's a cruel joke on kids spending tons of money and time for squat.

Bob

Very much reminiscent of the motion -> Save Live Music ...

And then there is -> The Cost of Broadway Orchestras as a Portion of Ticket Prices.

I've made a career out of music since the 1960s. It's possible, but it's getting more difficult. Clubs that used to hire bands 6 nights per week are down to weekends. Smaller clubs that used to hire weekend acts are down to one night a week. And because fewer people are going out, the entertainment purchaser is strapped for cash, so the bands have to get smaller (enter backing tracks). Now I see single people playing private clubs buying karaoke tracks and singing along while not playing any instrument at all.

To me the big culprit is TV.

I was talking to my mother-in-law a couple of years ago, and she remarked how in her day, first it was radio, and then black & white TV. She said the sound was terrible and if you wanted to hear good musical entertainment, you just had to go out to see it live.

Now people have giant TV screens with 7.1 surround sound and a monthly Cable or other subscription bill that can easily run into the hundreds of dollars. There goes the entertainment budget right there.

According to the pollsters, the average American watches 6 hours of TV a day. Add that to working hours and the monthly subscription fee and who has the time and money to go out to hear live entertainment?

Plus, TV is the most abused, and biggest drug habit in the US.

Drug you say?

It's habit forming. Try turning off the TV for a week, I guarantee you will get withdrawal symptoms
The drug needs to get stronger and stronger - it was "Our Miss Brooks" in the 50s and "Sex In The City" by the 90s
The drug user (TV Watcher) can't tell the difference between the drug (TV) and reality. Just ask any actor/actress who plays an evil person on TV. If they go to the grocery store or anywhere else in public, people shout verbal abuses at them is if they were actually the character they are portraying on TV

So if you want to contribute to the demise of live entertainment. Stay home and watch TV.

If you want to do something to help keep live music in your community. Go out every week to hear live music -- and not just the headliners, go to the local clubs where local musicians are playing.

Just say "no" to TV.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

When I was younger we'd go to a blues club or other club at least once a week. Dingy, beer stuck to the floor, smoke laden, downright nasty places. Have 5 beers and drive home. Now you can't have 2 beers and drive. And I have cataracts, I don't drive at night. And the noise level, I couldn't take it now. 30 years have changed a lot.

I still go every other Saturday for Saturday at the Opera (Met) high def broadcast in Surround Sound at the Deluxe Adults Only Cinema with big leather seats, drinks serve'md before and at intermission, a martini and shrimp cocktail anyone? I still give a bit every month to the Canadian Opera Company, the Toronto Symphony Orchestra, and try and get there once a year. Locally I support the Jazz Society, once a month a 'meet' and concert for about 300 people at 'my' club. (Shriner's Hall, I'm past pres), though they just rent the space from us for Sunday afternoon.

I'm trying to convince more groups that weekend afternoons would solve a host of problems. The wife and I used to put together 3 songs and go to some open mics. Got some good gigs that way. I'm too disabled to do that at the moment, but I'm not staying up to 10 to start of a Thursday and come home after midnight. I hope to be asleep then....

<<Now people have giant TV screens with 7.1 surround sound and a monthly Cable or other subscription bill that can easily run into the hundreds of dollars. There goes the entertainment budget right there.>>

It's even worse than that. It finally recently dawned on me that I could have movies and other shows via wifi for $8 per month from Netflix. The movie theaters will suffer from this as well as the local clubs. But, I agree that TV has taken a huge toll. The "broadway" shows that come to our town have very few musicians since they rely on sound equipment. I would rather see (and play with) live musicians but the times are what they are.

Stan

The so called "love" for live music has been a myth since the 40's or 50's imho. The only reason young people liked live bands back in the day is that was the only way they could get some loud music to party with. You couldn't ask Dad in 1963 to haul his huge Hi Fi stereo system down to the garage or dance hall for a party so the band was it. Young people never cared about live bands except for the huge concerts, they just wanted to party. Now that they can using a DJ, they're fine with that. In the 80's the sythesizer/prerecorded stuff started coming in. Miami Vice was the watershed. I remember reading in Keyboard Magazine at the time an interview with Jan Hammer and he was talking about his 200K Sinclavier sampler and how he did the whole soundtrack for each weeks show in his house. Little or no live players needed. Even with the cost of his equipment it was way cheaper to do that than hire 20 musicians every week in a studio. At the same time there was a musicians strike in Vegas over using tracks for the big shows. There was a compromise of some sort reached but the casinos won the right to use tracks at least some of the time and it's gone downhill from there.

Bob

I guess I'm below average in T.V. usage, although I am above Bob's usage.

I watch maybe 6-8 hours of T.V. a week. The thing that kills me is that I do pay $200 for my cable bill, which is T.V., internet, and phone. I have all sorts of channels that I never watch. In fact, I watch about five channels, the History Channels, the Military Channel, The Discovery Channel and the Science Channel. I have a very nice 40" plasma in my living room with a 5.1 surround system, and a 26" LCD in my bedroom. Guess which one gets watched more.

I don't go to concerts. Mostly, there's no one I want to see, and if there is, it's $50-75 a ticket, plus $20-30 for the parking, another $30 to get to Seattle and back on the ferry. I can buy a lot of DVDs for that which are going to sound better anyway. Plus, I won't have to fight traffic.

We do have an open mic night around here, but it's during the week, and I'm usually in bed by 9-ish, so I don't go. I try to attend some of the free open air jazz concerts in the summer, but they're often local musicians who get paid by the city to come out for a concert series.

We used to go to some of the local bars where small bands played, but you don't find too many of those any more, at least not a 4-5 piece band. Plus, not too many places will advertise that they have live bands any more.

Gary

The irony is strong with this one.

Eightstring, (aka Yoda),

Quote:

The irony is strong with this one.

If you aren't a Star Wars fan, you may not "get" EightStrings comment and my response.

We are "lamenting" the very thing we're taking part in, and promoting. Replacing "live" musicians with a computer program.

The thing we love, (aka, live music), is being replaced by the other thing we love, (aka BIAB and other programs).

It's not PG's fault. It's our own. We are getting what we asked for.

I so rarely watch TV - only for good films.

The question really is, ….. does musicianship really matter to anyone besides musicians? Unfortunately, the answer is no.

TV’s not the problem …………. It’s just one of many diversions that we have today. I’m not gonna list them because we all know what they are.

As musician’s, we wanted to be able to practice our songs when the rest of the band wasn’t around. We eventually got “mutitrack”.

After that, we wanted to be able to write songs and have a backup band for our arrangements. We got that. Then, cover songs. We got that too!

Then we said it sounded too “fake”, because of the MIDI. Then we got MIDI devices to make up for the deficiency in sound.

After that, we were still complaining about the sound, so then we got got actual instruments in a variety of styles and variable tempos that sounds great.

We were ecstatic! Even though the whole band could be replaced, (besides us), everything could else could be replicated electronically.

Then we recently find out that a 3D “hologram” could replace a lead singer and fill stadiums with thousands of devoted fans, and that program is available for purchase in various languages.

So for us to complain about being replaced by electronic media, and for us to be surprised that the public is willing to accept it, is extremely ironic, especially on this forum.

After all, …………… we asked for it.

Quote:

So for us to complain about being replaced by electronic media, and for us to be surprised that the public is willing to accept it, ………….. sorry, but it’s the height of hypocrisy, especially on this forum.

After all, …………… we asked for it, and we're asking for more!

and yet, life moves in pendulum cycles. The ability to automate music makes music available to more people, but it also makes it less special. People naturally gravitate toward that which is special, so in a roundabout way it is just a matter of time before the pendulum swings the other way and people start making distinctions between those who actually have musical skill and those who simply use music software.

Already many in my son's generation (which has never known a time when there WASN'T music making software) puts more value on real human performance than on automated music. I hear them mocking one another if they learn that somebody's song was created in Garage Band instead of being humanly played into a recording program.

I predict that the current availability of music software will lead to increased interest in music, which will in turn lead to the development of some serious human talent, which will lead to a resurgence in live music.

Regarding the comment about hypocrisy... I'm not so sure I'd go that far. Our generation came in on the other side of the pendulum swing, when live music was everywhere, all the time. Much of it was horrible, because the market would bear it. Unprofessional behavior was the rule more than the exception. Many of us wished for a way to make the kind of music we wanted to make without being drug down or forced to follow in the footsteps of people whose vision was different than ours... and music software allows us to finally get there. Unfortunately, a million other people got there at the same time, so it didn't make us as unique as we'd hoped.

For those who have lived a full musical experience (playing both in bands and then also in solo acts) it is natural to mourn the decline of live music playing opportunities. Our parents mourned the end of music as they enjoyed it, but their music never died, it just became a niche in a larger, more diverse body of musical styles and types of performance.

Well some of the blame has to go to the Musicians.They are no then the average American worker. They want everything and don't want to give anything back. Case in point. I have a very good friend in NH, were I'm from, that has a solo show.He does all his own backing tracks,harmonies everything. the stuff is right on. Plays 100% Oldies Rock & Roll. Up there the Animal Circuit is still very busy. He has a rotation of about 12 clubs. The Bands get $300 he gets $450 per night. You no why? Because he gives 110%. Plays what the people want not what he may want. gets on stage and has a good time. Doesn't just get on stage and play obscure tunes and look like he's bored shirtless.

"We were ecstatic! Even though the whole band could be replaced, (besides us), everything could else could be replicated electronically. "

I'm not ecstatic about it, but I think show producers and performance venues may be--at least for pop music. My wife and I play duets for retirement homes, etc.. We would like to have a live pianist, but none are available. Same thing for church. We have a couple of good pianists, but their schedules are too tight to have rehearsals during the week. We've had a very difficult time finding a pianist for another band we are in. That band will cancel performances rather than use "canned music." We don't cancel and hence BIAB, which we are very thankful for. The folks in the retirement facilities appreciate live music as do the schools where we play. I just bought tickets to see the Glenn Miller Orchestra in a week. It's a sell-out.

Stan

Quote:

I predict that the current availability of music software will lead to increased interest in music, which will in turn lead to the development of some serious human talent, which will lead to a resurgence in live music.

Of course it will but that doesn't mean anybody's going to be able to make a living at it except for the rare "winning the lottery" scenarios or the exceptional one man show person which is the point of this thread. Realize I've been making the same $100 more or less for a gig since 1980. There's been no overall increase in pay, why because as the years go on more and more good players are available chasing fewer gigs plus a good DJ can be hired for $3-500 so why would someone pay more than that for a 4 piece band, hence $100 a man. I just did a gig at the Manhattan Beach Country Club last Saturday. MB is millionaire central, Beverly Hills south, it costs $30,000 to join after you wait on the list for years. 5 piece jazz band, $75 each and the new Food and Beverage manager loved us. Great, try doubling the budget. At least it's only 5 miles up the road from me. Did another one earlier this year, West LA Sports Club, in Beverly Hills. They had to valet park my car after I unloaded my gear in front of literally a Ferrari, a huge black Rolls Royce and a whole platoon of Porsches. At least my old but nice Mercedes S class didn't look completely out of place. That one was a full $500 for the band so I made my $100 average. Wow. The appetizers were great though.
Three of those gigs per week is $1,200 a month and I haven't done that since the 70's. Double it, $2,400 a month that's still below the poverty line here.

Bob

Shastastan you have a PM.

Later,

TV's even better if you take other drugs while you watch.

Pat,

I stand corrected on the "hypocrisy" statement. I edited the post.

Quote:

Pat,

I stand corrected on the "hypocrisy" statement. I edited the post.

Gee, now I feel bad.

I see discussion like this as personal perspective, not as absolute truth. If I offer an opposing point of view, it certainly isn't a dismissal of any other point of view...simply a statement of why I may see it differently. I accept your original statement completely in the context of your post. If my reply seemed like a correction, I apologize.. that was not my intent.

I like hearing many points of view. This is a philosophical group, and I am always amazed by the variety of opinions that can be held by 50 different but equally rational minds.

Pat,

You shouldn't feel bad. Most of us ocassionally need a friend to suggest that we "tone down" our statements.

The discourse wasn't meant to be offensive, but as a way of looking at the topic at hand and the fact that all of us who use programs like BIAB are contributing to the problem of musicians being replaced by electronic media.

Do I plan on continuing to use BIAB? You betcha. If I ever start gigging again, will I use BIAB instead of live musicians? In some cases, yes. Preferably, no. Why? Because I prefer a more "improvisational" approach. If someones on a roll and they want to take 2 breaks instead of one, ... let 'er rip. If they want add an extra bar or two at the end of a solo, that's good too.

But if I'm simply trying to make a buck playing covers or songs in a "fixed" format, I'd skip the other musicians and use BIAB.

Of course that would knock other musicians out of potential work, hence the topic at hand.

If one wants agnst amongst freelance musicians you could study anthropology / history /music of the 1700's to the 1800's. Talk about turmoil. The steady income from 'patrons' or guys who kept you with the servants (slaves) and made you do stuff for the niece or wife who played the viola, suddenly found themselves trying to make a living selling pieces of music...and many fled to England where the 'lower' classes at least had roast beef and some way to survive.....

This has repeated itself for many centuries... don't despair....we are but a drop in time...to every thing there is a season.....turn turn turn ,...upside down.

...

This is a super interesting thread and I'm totally not surprised about anything each of you have said and observed (and pointed out)....and just imagine further what additional impact is coming with 3D TV (it's impressive....already just like being there...the only thing missing is the smoke, smell, touch and personal interaction with the band) and, in another short while, robotics (we already have very impressive "animusic")....I can easily see it now: a live musical (of any music genre...you get to select that with a button push...no actually it'll probably be with just a verbal request) played entirely by robotic humanoids (we already have the successful hologram entertainer approach) that go through all the physical motions of a live band choreographed (even with improvisation based on randomization possibly to make each act unique across multiple performances...even on repeats of the same tune....even with a singer whose voice is up to you to choose as well (including your own....that'll just require your entering a bar or two of your own voice once at an earlier point in time).

Don't kid yourself, this robotics stuff in coming in a big, big way to all businesses and homes (China has a gigantic "leg up" on that right now...with many many things planned for operational release in the very near future). Soon your robot will mow for you (actually that's already here), fetch your beer or Dr. Pepper (a little more work is going on here in case your refrigerator is upstairs or in the basement), go outside and start the car to let it warm up prior to your leaving for work (that's actually here already also with the push of a button on your keychain for some vehicles), go fetch the morning paper (and read it to you if you wish) and, yes, even then play the melody of any tune you select (where BIAB plays the background rhythm...this capability is already here with BIAB 2011, cough, cough). So where will that leave the professional musician then?

Anything that Chet/Eric/Les/Stevie Ray etc., could do, I can imagine a very human-like robot (i.e., humanoid) programmed to not "miss a single lick", including facial expressions, body language, and even vocals if you so request) playing an actual instrument whereby you get to see the whole thing up close. My guess is that PGMusic is already looking downstream at their strategy when this "rounds the corner", right, Peter? Initially the background band will probably be in the form that animusic uses now....but, a band member at a time could be UPSed or FedExed in until you get the whole band purchased (they will occupy a corner, possibly, of your music room). You only need one initially to play one backup rhythm instrument. He/she won't eat your groceries, talk back, have an ego, play whenever you wish, carry on a conversation, make suggestions to improve your play/vocals, etc. etc....that could be nice.

I'd love to hear a panel discussion about all this with certain ones on the panel from this forum (including each of you in this thread).

Oh well....I'm in education and, well, I got to worry about "distance learning" and related things seriously impacting my future also...oh wait a minute, I'm 66 already...its my younger colleagues that have to step up to the challenge on that one. I'm outta there soon (to do music for "fun and grins" the rest of my life...with my BIAB-based robot friends assuming everyone else is busy watching TV).

I look forward to further thoughts from others about the "future of music and musicians"...I'm seriously worried about ya'll,

Cecil

If we keep on automating away our physical activity, trading our own energy for mechanical energy, humans will end up as soft fat blobs with tiny arms and legs, good only for pushing buttons.

Some of us already are.

In the 70s I played 3 nights a week to full house clubs and made decent money.
In the 80s I played weekends at Blues Clubs in NYC mostly for free.
Then it dried up.

I moved upstate NY, 1987 and there were bands playing every night. I got gigs like the 70s. Lots of rock and country. Very roudy bars and clubs. Even played Motorcycle Races. They were scary gigs. Very rough crowds and outdoors. One country biker club, we played behind a metal mesh to block the beer bottles. Too many drunks and fights.

By 1990 DJs filled the bars and clubs and it was over up here.
I played my last paying gig the summer of 1989, to a crowd of about 10.

After that I played for free at churches and homes for the disabled.
By 2000 I was done.
Wayne,

Quote:

If we keep on automating away our physical activity, trading our own energy for mechanical energy, humans will end up as soft fat blobs with tiny arms and legs, good only for pushing buttons.

You know what being a solo act with backing tracks means? You carry ALL the gear in and out yourself.Sing ALL the songs yourself. Carry all the gear back yourself. Get ALL the money yourself. Have to take ALL the blame yourself. Take ALL the glory>
Love it!

A friend of mine in the late 70s, played Broadway shows and played out with jazz sax player, Stanley Turrentine. He stayed with Stanley Turrentine because of the promise of recording. It never happenned, so he left.
When I spoke to him by the mid 80s he was a computer programmer. He said most of the Broadway gigs dried up along with the Jazz. He also did a lot of studio work for NBC. That ended too. The players from SNL were doing all the promos.
I looked him up and now he teaches music in NY.
He was awesome and I'm sure he still is.

P.S. Just got an invite to an apartment concert with Bucky Pizzarelli in NYC.
No charge, all donations appreciated. Things have changed.

Wayne,

On more post!

Comedian Steve Martin also has a successful career as a bluegrass musician. After releasing several albums, he's finally started to get royalty checks. On Martin's web site where he's posted actual copies of three checks totaling 13 cents under the headline: "People say the music business is suffering, but it's NOT."

http://stevemartin.com/

Wayne,

In some cases, we as musicians have brought it on ourselves.
My nephew played in a tight 4 piece country band. (Bass, drums, lead guitar,
and pedal steel)

Not too many gigs but enought so they could keep up their licks and enjoy themselves.
Mostly in a non-smoking casino, which they enjoyed.

They weren't allowed to drink when playing the gig.
Unfortunately, one member(not my nephew), started adding booze to his coke
bottle between sets. One night we got so wasted he couldn't finish the last set.

They likely will never be given a chance to play that casino again, and as it's
not a big city, the news got around really fast, so maybe no gigs at all.

My nephew quit and joined another band.

I'm sure we all have a story like this to tell. A few bad apples ....
But it's reality, and you couldn't blame the casino if they hired a DJ.

LLOYD S

You sound old

I'm not far behind.
Chase some kids off your lawn and you'll feel better; works for me sometimes

I had a similar experience to Steve Martin. I kept the royaly check; and the envelope with the stamp that was more than the check. It cost them more to mail it to me than the check was worth.

I think it's a 17 cent check and a 30 cent stamp. I still want to frame those.
If I drove to the bank to cash it, I lost money.

I'm 58, but I look about 75. That's why I took down my old picture. It looks like my son! (If I had one)
Like I always say, "It's not the year, it's the mileage."

Wayne,

"Get off my lawn, or mow it!" as I wave my cane like a crazy old man.

Citaat:

You know what being a solo act with backing tracks means? You carry ALL the gear in and out yourself.Sing ALL the songs yourself. Carry all the gear back yourself. Get ALL the money yourself. Have to take ALL the blame yourself. Take ALL the glory>
Love it!

I used to take a sound tech with me on quite a lot of gigs. Nowadays I can only afford to take him with me on larger venues where I can't possibly work the knobs myself. Just a matter of fewer bookings and having to keep the stove burning... Actually quite a few bars I used to play at have gone bankrupt the last two years. (come on...joke's on me: They went broke because......)

Being a solo act really means: packing the PA, driving to the gig (ranging from 30 minutes to 3 hours), setting up the PA, doing the 4 hour long show (at the same time being the sound engineer and keeping an eye on the equipment), packing up the PA, driving back home, unloading the PA again.

Yeah.....it's the easy life
(No, not complaining; the moment I start to hate my job is the moment I will find another way of making a living)

As for TV. The higher the quality of the TV-sets is nowadays, the lower the quality of programs that are made. I mean, come on. Most programs nowadays make Dallas (the soap, not the city) look like Shakespeare

Then there are the really boring pauses between the commercials.... Watch a movie on TV? Better go to the cinema or rent the DVD (no, no blueray in my house yet: most music concerts are released on DVD, not on blueray) When I do watch TV, I tune in on Discovery, National Geographic, History.

But be fair. It isn't all bad news with the new technology. Thanks to PG-Music and Steinberg I have a complete sudio at my house at my disposal. I can create music and record it whenever I want. Thanks to internet radio stations like Jango (the one I use frequently) I get to know new music made by unknown artists. I can even leave a comment on their songs and get a response from them. And you know what? Maybe I will put up some music up there myself too.

Yes, times are changing. As they have done since the beginning of time. And will continue to do so, no matter what any of us does...

Glad you got a sense of humor.

The next check I got from them was worth twice as much (exactly). Whoo Hoo
Then the next one more than doubled.

Told the wife if it kept doubling twice a year I'd retire happy. She started laughing. Then I showed her the math; 20 years down the road 89k checks twice a year would do nicely..(I was young then)

Instead I got a nice shoulder bag (worth far more than the checks combined) and later a notice they were shutting down.
Others here know what company I'm talking about.
That was a funny venture.

Things change and will always change. There was a time when I went to work with a tenor sax in one hand, an alto in another and a flute tucked under my arm. We played 6 nights a week in night clubs generally from 9PM to 2AM and the clubs were jammed. The minimum size for a band with a sax player was 4, and more often than not I was in bigger bands than that, up to 7 pieces.

Now I'm in a duo with my wife. We were in a 5 piece band together, until the money and personnel problems caused us to rethink. I started making my own backing tracks with an Atari computer and a sequencer, before Band-in-a-Box was available. Musicians told me I was putting other musicians out of work with that box, and I told them I was putting a musician to work with that box -- me! Some of those same musicians are now purchasing my BiaB style disks and Fake Disks. Yes, the times they are a-changing.

And in the duo, we schlep all the equipment ourselves. And since I play sax, guitar, wind synth, flute and Leilani plays guitar and Tactile MIDI Controller, we have a lot of gear to schlep.

And as the economy started to downturn, the gigs got scarcer and the competition for those gigs fiercer. The country can't fight two wars using the national credit card to finance them and have good economy. Nobody has ever been able to do that. When the economy goes down, musicians, restaurants and other optional items suffer.

We're still making a living out of it, and although the money isn't as great as it might have been if I stayed in electronics engineering, the life itself is a lot more enjoyable.

So I'm still making the mortgage payments, I drive new cars but then keep on driving them long after they have been paid off, and there are some other compromises that need to be made. On the other hand, I've seen corporate types laid off with no employment opportunities at all. So while looking at that, I'm not feeling so unlucky at all.

All in all I'm happy being a career musician and if I could go back and change it, I'd still be a musician.

Being a musician is not what I do, it's what I AM.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

Quote:

Being a musician is not what I do, it's what I AM.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

I support the local Jr College music program. The dean once told the students that you go into a music career "..if it is the only thing you can do". I took that comment in the positive spirit that it was intended.

But I do believe you expressed the same sentiment better.

Technology and socio-economic change affects every type of work, not just music. We can fear the handwriting on the wall, or we can proactively get positioned to succeed in the new reality.

Quote:

Quote:

Being a musician is not what I do, it's what I AM.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

I support the local Jr College music program. The dean once told the students that you go into a music career "..if it is the only thing you can do". I took that comment in the positive spirit that it was intended. But I do believe you expressed the same sentiment better.

I think so.

I started as a musician, and got almost famous, warming up in concert for the major stars of the day, with a big record contract offered to us (negotiations failed when our lawyers wanted us to make some money from the deal). Then I got bummed and tried to quit music.

I had a short stint as a telephone repairman and another as a Cable TV Field Engineer, both while playing music on the weekends. It didn't work out with me.

I was capable of doing the jobs, better than many, not as good as the best, but somewhere in the upper middle. But I found myself simply enduring the week and waiting for the weekend. I lived for the weekends when I was on stage and playing music.

I can't not do music.

Being a musician is not an easy life. You always have to be looking for new work, you have to try to be a businessman/woman (which is not always easy for artist types), you have to learn to read the audience and play for them, you have no sick leave and actually have to play when you are sick, you get no paid vacations, you have to pay self-employment tax unless you are in certain orchestras, and you have to strive to be better than your competition or else you will not have any work.

But this pretty much describes any person who is self-employed, doesn't it?

On the other hand, I get to eat, breathe, and live a life doing music and nothing else but music. I'm happy and well adjusted. I'm doing better than the abandoned corporate workers who had the rug pulled out from under them when their jobs were outsourced. The big corporation doesn't care about it's workers, it only cares about this quarter's bottom line.

I make all my own decisions, if the decision is good, I profit, if the decision is bad, hopefully not too much damage is done and hopefully I learn from it. It's not like I have a job and I don't even consider it a job. When I'm looking for work, I'm foraging, when I'm schlepping equipment I'm exercising, and when I'm performing I'm playing (and I mean playing).

As I said, it's not what I do, it's what I am.

I once watched a documentary about the great violinist Nadja Salerno-Sonnenberg and she advised people if they can and want to do anything else, they should do it. But if they absolutely have to be a musician, then they should be a musician.

It's a happy life. Sure it has it's challenges, but what kind of a life doesn't? But I get to make a life doing music and nothing but music. Between performing and this little Band-in-a-Box aftermarket sideline I stumbled into, I'm doing OK. Or as they say, "could be better .. could be worse".

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

It's always been this way. Seriously. Read Beethoven's biography.

I know several folks here in Denver and Colorado Springs that are absolutely proving all of the 'drying up' comments wrong.

Different skills for different times. The world is your stage now with the Internet / YouTube / Facebook / Twitter / Reverbnation. If you know how to work that and have real talent, you can be successful.

Check out Tyler Ward Music on YouTube.

This kid was one of the worship leaders at our church just 6 months ago. He has absolutely gone viral on the internet and not because there's some amateur video of him laughing with milk coming out of his nose. He's got real talent as a musician, producer, videographer, and social network leader. His fan base is truly global. Hundreds of thousands of subscribers to his YouTube channel. Featured in Entertainment Magazine as a phenom to watch, etc. Playing tonight at the Hard Rock Cafe in Denver. Multiple record companies courting him, etc.

One of Tyler Ward's lead guitarists and another former worship leader at our little 250 person church, Jesse Michael Howard - super talented electric guitar player - landed lead guitarist gig with Big Kenny of Big & Rich.

And oh yeah, what Notes says in all of his posts in this thread "Ditto".

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Technology and socio-economic change affects every type of work, not just music. We can fear the handwriting on the wall, or we can proactively get positioned to succeed in the new reality.

Hold yer cards, we have a winner.

--Mac

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....snip....
It's a happy life. Sure it has it's challenges, but what kind of a life doesn't? But I get to make a life doing music and nothing but music. Between performing and this little Band-in-a-Box aftermarket sideline I stumbled into, I'm doing OK. Or as they say, "could be better .. could be worse".

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

Bob, you left out one very important thing. That would be that you have helped a lot of folks with your BIAB related stuff and brought a lot of enjoyment to your audiences. Those are worth something, too, my friend.

Stan

The key here Notes is what I mentioned earlier. You married the singer. Imagine her as a stay at home mom with you the sole support for the family and you would not be a musician. Remember the old joke what's the difference between a musician and a pepperoni pizza? The pizza can feed a family of four.
Here's a little exercise for anyone reading this thread to try. Pick any site that hosts musicians. Listen to some tracks, bookmark some good ones. When you've tired of that site look at the right hand side of their page (usually) and see a list of related links. Pick one of those and do it again. Listen to some tracks. I did that about two years ago, just curious "what was out there". What's out there is an incredible, near infinite number of very professional sites hosting hundreds of really good, really well produced original songs each.
You can't do this for just 30 minutes or so. Oh no, you've got to really give this a chance, grab a couple of beers, make yourself comfortable in front of your computer and give it a good 3 hours or so. I did that and it was un...frickin...believable. At first I would find a great looking site, excellent graphics, excellent layout, all the bands organized in logical categories and I listened to maybe 6 or 7 tracks. Almost all of them were really good. I would then hit a link and do it again. That was the first hour and I had bookmarked a few sites that were so good I wanted to go back and visit them again later but for for now I was just trying to find as many new ones as I could. The second hour I was shortening up the time. Maybe one minute looking at the layout of the site, another minute listening to 2 or 3 tunes, no bookmark, too many, got to keep going, need to see just how many really good ones there are. For the third hour it was 15 seconds per site, 30 seconds listening to one tune, hit a link, move on. The last 10 minutes or so I felt like I was looking at one of those amazing Hubble pictures of the Milky Way in super high definition and wondering how long would it take to count all the stars.
I'm not joking here and I'm not exaggerating. If anybody doubts this, do it yourself but make it three hours minimum.
The internet is vast. Music hosting sites are one of the main categories. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of them is in the millions. There's not enough time in one lifetime to hit all the links on all those music hosting websites to listen to all the bands. No way. And remember my point here is not just the quantity, it's the quality. I heard some really good stuff. Great vocals, great writing, great playing, great production values. Every genre.
Here in LA the median income to just rent the average apartment and live decently is 50K a year. $1,000 a week. If someone is seriously trying to make that much playing or producing music they need to perform this little exercise and ponder the question can you really do this?

Bob

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It's always been this way. Seriously. Read Beethoven's biography.

I know several folks here in Denver and Colorado Springs that are absolutely proving all of the 'drying up' comments wrong.

Different skills for different times. The world is your stage now with the Internet / YouTube / Facebook / Twitter / Reverbnation. If you know how to work that and have real talent, you can be successful.

Of course it's possible Scott. The question is how likely is it no matter how good you are at working these things. The other question is who determines, before you go down that path, the definition of "real talent"? How many of Beethoven's peers who were equally talented but never caught that break died broke and miserable? If you have a teenage child who's preparing for college and they happen to really like music and are talented (but does it meet the definition of "real talent"), would you truly encourage them to spend $20,000 per year for a four year music degree at a big university rather than engineering, business and finance, health care, environmental geology, whatever? Pursuing their passion as a sideline while they're getting a real degree sure, but as a major? Was Tyler strictly a musician only or was he doing something real while trying to make it? Good for him by the way, he is good and it's a great story.
Stories like that are what kept me going for many years too.

Bob

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Technology and socio-economic change affects every type of work, not just music. We can fear the handwriting on the wall, or we can proactively get positioned to succeed in the new reality.

In other words, assume the position!

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The key here Notes is what I mentioned earlier. You married the singer. Imagine her as a stay at home mom with you the sole support for the family and you would not be a musician.

What's different between that and any other Ma and Pa business? I used to eat at an Italian Restaurant, Papa was the chef, Mama was the hostess, ran the register, and waited tables, and the kids waited and bussed tables.

And raising kids is not for everybody (and shouldn't be as we are over-populated) plus stay at home moms went out with the 1950s. I don't know many couples with one salary anymore.

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<...>The internet is vast. Music hosting sites are one of the main categories. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of them is in the millions.<...>

Music hosting sites are not the only way a musician makes a living. Most musicians I know make a living by gigging. And I do know a number of musicians who make their living by playing music.

Just because you can record something and put it out there doesn't mean you can make a living at it. I know weekend painters, or those condo-ladies who paint water-colors and show it in local art fairs (that's probably a fair comparison),

There are a lot of amateur or semi-pro painters, photographers, dancers, actors, writers, and others who dabble in the arts, and then again, there are a lot who make a living doing those very same arts.

Most small businesses fail in the first 5 years. That includes produce marts, real estate agencies, retail outlets, restaurants, dry cleaners, auto repair shops, software start-ups, and anything else you can think of. There are a million reasons to fail in a small business, and most of them do fail.

But some also do not fail. A very small percentage get rich and famous, and the majority that make it, make a living doing it, and nobody outside their area ever knows about them.

If you are not a superstar, it doesn't mean you failed. You could do quite well for yourself with a local clientele in any small business. It depends on your talent, business skills, timing, and a few things that are not in your control.

And it's not only music jobs that dry up.

But what about the factory workers in Flint, Michigan? They lost their jobs when the GM decided to outsource. Is this any better than being a musician? They may have been doing better than me in the 60s, but I'm doing better than them now. The things that were not in their control led to their hardship.

I have a friend who worked for Sears, and was downsized. He ran out of unemployment, did little odd jobs when he could, and finally had a nervous breakdown. The things that were not in his control got to him.

Accountants (CPA's) are being replaced by Tax Cut Software.

Turnpike Toll Takers are being replaced by auto-responder devices.

Hotel jobs are scarcer due to teleconferencing and high airline fares.

Pilots and flight attendants are no longer secure in their positions.

Factory luthiers are being replaced by computer-operated jigs that cut out perfect guitar shapes.

Printing typesetters are all but replaced by computers (my father was one all his life).

Newspapers are being replaced by the Internet.

Record companies are being hurt by downloads and file sharing.

One person with a CAD program can do the work of 10 draftsmen/draftswomen.

One pharmacist now has 20 assistants doing his/her work which puts 19 other pharmacists out of work.

What about the people who used to make film for cameras, and those who made their living developing them?

Videotape manufacturers?

Vinyl Record manufacturers?

Radiologists are now being outsourced to Asia. The x-rays are digital, they go over the internet, and the diagnosis comes back. Another elite profession outsourced.

Even the USPS is in trouble because of e-mail!

And it isn't new, the ballad of "John Henry" runs it back to the days when railroad workers slung a sledge hammer and got replaced by the steam driver.

And these are a few examples.

The world changes, and as it does, some jobs will get eliminated. Musicians are not the only ones in this position.

To take the example of "freelance musicians" hear mournful coda as the jobs dry up, and instead of "freelance musicians" substitute auto-workers, Certified Public Accountants, Pharmacists, Drafts-persons, typesetters, TV and other appliance repairmen/women, steel workers, machinists, and hundreds of other trades and you will pretty much have a similar story.

I'm still making a living as a musician, and a number of my friends are. True, there aren't as many jobs as there were in the past, but it's the same with many other professions.

You can be a self-employed business person, or you can work for a giant corporation and become a "wage slave" (yes, that's what they call you) or find a place in-between if you can. None of these positions are secure. The days of my father's who set type for the newspaper until he got his gold watch and retired are gone.

Times change, businesses change, and just about everything you are doing now will become obsolete in the future.

I was a Cable TV Electronics Field Engineer for 5 years while playing music on the weekends. I was testing the "real world" with the electronics skills I learned in college. The company laid off up to 15 years. Nobody I know got called back. Instead the new plug-and-play technology allowed them to hire people with much less skill and training and therefore would work for much less money. And all the Cable TV manufacturers were also laying off, so there was no place for me to go. I went back to full-time music, and haven't regretted it.

Playing music turned out to be more secure than electronics engineering.

And life is short. There is no guarantee of the promised afterlife, although we all hope there is one. So what's worse? Living as a wage slave, enduring the week, and waiting for the weekend while you have some false security and the constant risk of being downsized? Or doing something that you love so much for a living that it doesn't seem like you are working.

I don't say I HAVE to got to work today. I say I GET to go to work today. I'm living a very happy life. I play music for a living. I don't take orders from anybody, but live by the decisions I make for myself. I have fun on the job. I like it so much that more often than not, I work without taking a break. Not because I have to, but because I'm having too much fun to stop. I'm living a happy life, what could be better than that?????

A wise man once said, "If you do for a living what you would do for free, you will never work a day in your life." -- and other than the two "day jobs" that I had (phone repairman and Cable TV Engineer), I've never worked a day in my life.

When you get to the end of your life, and if you have a moment to reflect on your life, and you can truly say to yourself, I had a great time while I was here, you are successful. If you made a zillion dollars but endured your work week and simply existed for your 2 week vacation all your life, you were a failure. At least that's the way I see it.

I'm having a great time. I've played music in most US states and foreign countries all the way to the People's Republic of China. I lived on a cruise ship for 3 years. I've warmed up for famous stars and met famous musicians on equal terms, peer to peer, not fan to star. I almost made the big time myself. I've been intimate with more women than most men get to and in the end found the best woman for me, my soul mate Leilani. I've rubbed shoulders with the richest of rich and the poor and downtrodden and been treated with respect by them all. I'm treated as an artist, not an underling or employee. It's a lot better than climbing telephone poles, stuffing mail into a box, or working in some office.

If my son or daughter wanted to be a musician, I would explain the business to them in detail, and if I thought they would be happier as a musician than a corporate wage slave, I'd encourage it.

And for all the corporate types that keep telling people that they cannot be artists for a living, I remind them the fable that ends with the phrase, "Sour grapes."

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

interesting side note to this thread:

even as many musical venues dry up, there is still one place where live music is alive and well: church.

Pick up any phone book and look in the yellow pages under CHURCHES.. there are more churches than clubs in most towns, and nearly all of them have live music, played by their members.

Anyone who makes software for musical creation should take note of the fact that faith-based music is far more than a niche market segment. In terms of human participation as a percentage of the whole population, it may well be the largest musical segment of all

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What's different between that and any other Ma and Pa business? I used to eat at an Italian Restaurant, Papa was the chef, Mama was the hostess, ran the register, and waited tables, and the kids waited and bussed tables.

Huge difference Notes. Anybody can learn to be the hostess/waitress/cashier at a restaurant but how many average girls can learn from nothing how to front a group as the girl singer? That is obviously a highly desirable skill/talent set. And, btw Bob I am highly jealous of you. Leilani must be a heckuva cool lady

My point with all those websites was not to show they're not making any money, it's to show how many good players and bands there are. There's so many great players who have graduated from music schools all over the world in the last 20 years that the chances of making a living are even less now than the already slim chances it's always been. Heck, I was much more successful than most and I know what it takes. I was on the road for 6 years. We were booked by one of the largest booking agencies in North America, MusArt Corp, with the owner Bob Vincent being our personal agent. I saw him on Star Search in the 80's as a celebrity judge. I worked in every state in the country including Hawaii twice in the big "A" rooms. Pat Benatar was our last girl singer before the band broke up and she went back to New York and became a star. The previous one wound up at Cesears doing a show with Sinatra. I was close man, real close but no cigar.
At the time it was like you said, I was making at least the same if not a bit more than I could make at a regular job at the time. I don't think that can be done now but I don't really know for sure because I'm not in it anymore, I resigned from AFM 20 years ago. And yeah, I was actively trying to hook up with a girl singer to be able to do what you are now doing. Give Leilani a big hug for me and tell her if I had been around at the time you wouldn't have stood a chance...

Bob

"The world changes, and as it does, some jobs will get eliminated. Musicians are not the only ones in this position."

Not to mention the current economy. My son is a construction project manager in Vegas.
One sad thing is that a lot of schools dump their music programs as funding declines.

Stan

Notes,

I have to agree with jazzmammal, I also envy your situation. I've never tried to make a living with music. It's always been a hobby.

I've had several offers over the years to play in working bands, but the only ones I accepted were ones where it was agreed beforehand that it only be for a few gigs until they found someone else because I didn't want music to become a "job".

I had a duo for a couple of years and we only performed songs that I'd written. We deliberately only booked a couple of gigs a month since we both had full time jobs that frequently required travel and long hours. This allowed us to get our performing "fix" and maintain our jobs.

After that it was sporadic and just putting together an ad hoc band, duo or trio to play gigs at festivals, radio programs, flatpicking contests, weddings, parties, ......... aka mostly jam sessions with an audience.

In hindsight, I wish I had pursued it seriously. You're "living the dream" bro.

I'm obviously familiar with your web site for BIAB files, but what's your web site for your duo?

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It's always been this way. Seriously. Read Beethoven's biography.

I know several folks here in Denver and Colorado Springs that are absolutely proving all of the 'drying up' comments wrong.

Different skills for different times. The world is your stage now with the Internet / YouTube / Facebook / Twitter / Reverbnation. If you know how to work that and have real talent, you can be successful.

Of course it's possible Scott. The question is how likely is it no matter how good you are at working these things. The other question is who determines, before you go down that path, the definition of "real talent"? How many of Beethoven's peers who were equally talented but never caught that break died broke and miserable? If you have a teenage child who's preparing for college and they happen to really like music and are talented (but does it meet the definition of "real talent"), would you truly encourage them to spend $20,000 per year for a four year music degree at a big university rather than engineering, business and finance, health care, environmental geology, whatever? Pursuing their passion as a sideline while they're getting a real degree sure, but as a major? Was Tyler strictly a musician only or was he doing something real while trying to make it? Good for him by the way, he is good and it's a great story.
Stories like that are what kept me going for many years too.

Bob

Bob,

I think we actually agree nearly 100%. Tyler gets paid via iTunes purchases. I'm sure there were many equally talented musicians as Beethoven in his day but they didn't get the commissioned gigs like he did with his benefactor(s).

I'll turn this whole thing around a little bit.

When was the last time anyone reading this thread paid out good money to go hear some live music? I paid a well-deserved $10 each for my wife and I to hear Acoustic Eidolon this past weekend. Talk about some talent - ridiculous out-of-the-ballpark talent.

Also, I agree with your previous post about the plethora of talent that is out there. It is mind-boggling. I'm like Bobcflatpicker, I've intentionally avoided situations to where music became my sole source of money.

I did play a gig on the 4th as part of a band to help a church raise funds for a microloan program to villagers in Tanzania. We raised only 300$, but I didn't know exactly what the benefit was for ahead of time. Could have worked harder on the promotion and raised more money.

Anyway - people are paying for recorded music in bucketloads these days. And we all get to be part of that whereas even 15 years ago, it was much more difficult to say that.

Oh - Tyler has a T-shirt design company as well.

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When was the last time anyone reading this thread paid out good money to go hear some live music? I paid a well-deserved $10 each for my wife and I to hear Acoustic Eidolon this past weekend. Talk about some talent - ridiculous out-of-the-ballpark talent.

Anyway - people are paying for recorded music in bucketloads these days. And we all get to be part of that whereas even 15 years ago, it was much more difficult to say that.

Yeah, I do the same thing. Every time I'm down at the 3rd Street Promanade in Santa Monica I'll drop a minimum of five bucks into the tip jar of the street musicians I like. All you see in movies or TV are the bizarro street performers but there's some serious players down there. People have told me from time to time I should do it too. I hear they make upwards of $300 a day but you have to get licensed by the city and logistics would be a real problem plus who guards my stuff when I have to take a break? I can rain around here so that's a factor too. For all I know there may be a 5 year waiting list to even get a spot. Still, I've seen some keyboard players who are pretty good but they're weak in the backing tracks department and I definitely could put on a show. Hummpph, I decided to do a little search before I posted this and found a blog about those street performers. Apparantly, everyone is assigned a three hour slot but not a specific space so those are first come first served. Some guys are saying you have to show up several hours early in order to get a decent spot and more on weekends and holidays. That's doesn't sound too great but they do say $3-400 a day is true. Between the parking and schleping equipment I think they earn their pay.

I know you're plugged into the internet scene more than I am and it's good to hear you say people are paying more for online music than they were a few years ago. Maybe I will finish that album of orginals and see what happens...

Bob

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<...>I'm obviously familiar with your web site for BIAB files, but what's your web site for your duo?

http://www.s-cats.com

I get pretty sick of people saying, "You can't make a living being a musician." I know too many people who are.

I suppose if you read the forum for CPA's you will read, "You can't make a living being an accountant anymore."

I suppose if you read the newspaper writer's forum you will read, "You can't make a living being a reporter anymore."

And so on......

And I suppose that is true for most professions. But on the other hand, there are people who are still making a living at those professions as they change with the times. And yes, there are people who drop out of the profession, even talented ones. Just as there are in any profession.

And jazzmammal, sure anyone can learn to be the hostess/waitress at a restaurant, but that's not all that's involved in running a small business like a Ma and Pa restaurant. Somebody has to be a talented cook, someone has to know where to get the best ingredients at the best price, someone has to know how to keep the books, someone has to know the market trends, someone has to know what the competition is doing, someone has to know how to maintain the equipment or who to call, someone has to know the health department code and how to comply with it, someone has to know where the most effective advertising is, someone has to know what insurance is required and what insurance is not, someone has to know how to minimize overhead, and so on.

A small business is a small business and what you see on the surface is not all there is.

Lawyers are pretty talented, and I have heard of a few quitting the profession because they couldn't get enough good paying work.

A friend of mine was a surgeon, but is now teaching high school because he could make more money as a teacher than a doctor. Too many doctors, too much overhead (malpractice insurance, office costs, staff, etc.).

A friend of mine was an engineer for a large photographic film and camera manufacturer. He loved engineering as much as I love playing music. Engineering was downsized, he took a job as a sales rep.

You can hear the same story in every small business or profession and many big ones as well. On the other hand, you do have the Pat Benetar and Gloria Estefan types that break out and become rich and famous. That's simply the breaks.

Most small businesses will fail in five years or less. If it was easy, the numbers would be better.

Most big corporations are downsizing and outsourcing.

Much of the problem is the economy. You simply cannot fight two wars on the country's "credit card" and have good economy. And you can't compound that debt by hiring mercenaries to do the fighting for you at a higher rate than our finest, and then say you are shrinking the size of the government by doing so.

The fact is that you still can make a living by being a musician, CPA, engineer, luthier, or whatever, but just about everything is more difficult than it used to be. And it will be until we quit our military adventures and get our Federal budget balanced again as it was in the latter 1990s.

Of course, as in any small business, being a musician means not living the "normal" life. It's no 9-5 gig with employer paid benefits. There is no paid sick leave (more often than not you work through it), no paid vacations, you pay self-employment tax, your bank, insurance, phone and everything else costs more, you work much more than 40 hours, but it doesn't really seem that much like work, it's just what you do. On the other hand, you make or fail by your own decisions, you are not taking orders from someone else, and you are basically living life on your own terms.

I wouldn't trade it for anything, but it's not for everyone.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

Printing typesetters replaced by computers.

I worked Pre-Press and as a Typesetter in the 80s.
Lots of photographic work which has been gone for years.
I got into Computers in the 80s and a lot of those skills helped me make a living with computers. Setting up PCs for private business and a county Library System.
I remember upgrading PCs when HardDrives came out. Also increasing the RAM to 64 kilobytes.
You're lucky when you can adapt your old skills to use in new ones.

Wayne,

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<...>
You're lucky when you can adapt your old skills to use in new ones.

Wayne,

I did the same with computers and music.

It's survival of the fittest, or in other words, adaptability.

As the world changes, those who can make the changes survive.

I have a friend who plays trumpet. Refused to play anything but Dixieland and standards. Doesn't want to work with computers or backing tracks. But the people who grew up listening to Dixieland and Sinatra are no longer a good market. To many are dead and the ones still alive don't spend a lot of money. My friend is now teaching school and playing Dixieland or Standards a couple of times per month.

He was one of the people who when I started messing with my Atari/ST computer told me that I was putting musicians out of work with that machine. I told him I was putting a musician to work, me!

Musicians work is not the same as it was when I was on the road. But neither is typesetting. Adapt and survive or face another alternative.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

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But the people who grew up listening to Dixieland and Sinatra are no longer a good market. To many are dead and the ones still alive don't spend a lot of money.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Sorry about that.

Funny thing. I've been playing since the 60s. For most of my life, whenever I saw gray hair I enjoyed playing standards. They are musically challenging and fulfilling.

Now when I see gray hair I have to enjoy playing Elvis Presley, The Beatles and Disco.

And I think, "What are these old people doing listening to MY music!!!" and if I look in the mirror, I immediately see the answer.

Funny how you think your music is still new, even decades after it becomes old ;-)

Survival means playing whatever the particular audience in front of you wants to hear.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

As a counterpoint, I have noticed a renewed interest in jazz standards over the past few years, and I often find myself playing to audiences of 20-somethings who know the words and sing along to all the old Sinatra and Bennett performed classics.

Oh, I certainly get the people who want me to "bring the rawk", but oddly enough, they're more my age (40 and up).

The younger crowds, at least here in L.A., seem to want to hear stuff like "Witchcraft" and "The Way You Look Tonight". If I had a dollar for every time some "kid" in a fedora or a table full of young ladies yelled, "More Sinatra!"...

Sounds good to me. Here in Florida they don't ask for that.

:-(

Notes

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As a counterpoint, I have noticed a renewed interest in jazz standards over the past few years, and I often find myself playing to audiences of 20-somethings who know the words and sing along to all the old Sinatra and Bennett performed classics.

Oh, I certainly get the people who want me to "bring the rawk", but oddly enough, they're more my age (40 and up).

The younger crowds, at least here in L.A., seem to want to hear stuff like "Witchcraft" and "The Way You Look Tonight". If I had a dollar for every time some "kid" in a fedora or a table full of young ladies yelled, "More Sinatra!"...

That's really interesting. It's seemed to me for a long time that there is a lot more interest in jazz in Europe than here in the country where it originated. Seems a little ironic to me that some of my favorite swing and gospel arrangements were done and even published in Europe.

Stan

these guys found a gig!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9XNfWNooz4

In my all too infrequent trips to the UK and Europe (England, Scotland, Wales, Netherlands, Italy, and Hungary) I've noticed more interest in Jazz than here in the USA.

I also notice that the audiences in Europe tend to listen to the music more intently than the audiences in the US. It seems that most of people in Europe go for the music and most of the people in the US go for the event.

Our weekly, weather permitting, outdoor gig is today, and it's supposed to be 72F with no chance of rain!!!!!!!!!

Notes ♫

Amen to just say no to T.V. and see the little guys in the little clubs...My sentiments exactly.

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Amen to just say no to T.V. and see the little guys in the little clubs...My sentiments exactly.

Yep. It comes down to this. If you want to have live music in your community, you have to support live music in your community.

And that doesn't mean only once or twice a year, it means weekly.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

Thank goodness alot of the thirty and forty somethings are picking up on The American Standards Song Back.
When I heard "Feliz Navidad", done with a Wah-Wah Touch Screen, emanating from a bunch of IPADS/IPodTouches/iphones...with great success...I was sorta awestruck..they were, and it sounded, cool!!
I jus' wanna wish you a Merry Christmas from the bottom of MY heart!!

ARRIBAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Being a musician is not what I do, it's what I AM.

I always like to say "I didn't pick music it picked me"