Hi,

The C minor scale...Cm,Ddim,Eb,Fm,Gm,Ab,Bb,Cm

The chord progression I am using is Cm,Bb,Ab,G major,Cm.
The B note occurs in the G major chord.
There is another section of the song Eb,Gmin,Eb7,Ab,Abmin,Eb,Bb,Cm
The B note occurs in the Abmin chord also.

1. Why does the G major chord sound good or correct as the B note in the G major chord does not occur in the C natural minor scale?
2. Why does the G major chord seem to resolve back to C minor so well?

I can make a recording of this if it helps.

Cheers,


Billy

Note

The Eb,Gmin,Eb7 only really becomes obvious on a piano with Eb played in the root position and to form the Gmin chord by dropping the Eb note to D...then to Db to form a three note version of Eb7. This also forms part of the melody line. The guitar is playing something else. I have not written the bass line yet but hope to incorporate at least the F,Eb,D notes as a walk down between the G major to Cmin.

Cheers,

Billy

Plano,

There are probably better explanations but here's one. The G major leads to C minor because you have two notes moving up in half-steps and a common note.

The B note of the G chord moves up a half-step to the C.

The D note of the G chord moves up a half-step to the Eb.

The G note is in both chords.

Moving up a half-step is so common in Western music that your brain has been conditioned to expect it.

Hope this helps.

2b

Thanks 2b,

I understand the Ab major to the Ab minor because that is really very common thing one hears in Western music. All those half step walk downs are also common.I guess it does not need to be logical if repeated enough times.

This piece of music has been floating around in my head for several years. I am tired of thinking about it and want to finish the song. I often hear things in my head that I do not have the skill set to play or understand.

I think I have been influenced by Paul McCartney more than I ever assumed. Thing we hear and like normally get's incorporated in things we write. Several songs I have written have that major to minor walk down.

A refinement of the question might be what are good or preferred ways to take a song out of key.

Sometime I listen to rock music and wonder if the musicians who created it even knew something like playing in key even exist...lol

Actually I think you are dead on with "Moving up a half-step is so common in Western music that your brain has been conditioned to expect it"

As I learn more about music theory I find new things I never dreamed existed. The more I learn the more I understand how little I know.

Cheers,

Billy

Hi Billy,

With the minor key, there are three possibilities that come into play when creating songs. These possibilities can affect harmony and melody.

The three options are based on the following scales...

• the natural minor
• the harmonic minor
• the melodic minor

The notes that you've written for C minor,

C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C,

belong to the scale of C natural minor. That is, they are the notes exactly as given by the key signature as one steps from note to note in the scale.

Long ago, musicians found that if they wanted a strong ending sound like G (or more often the 7th chord based on G) to C in the major key (this is called a Perfect Cadence), then it was necessary to raise the 7th note of the natural minor scale to B rather than Bb. This gives the notes of the Harmonic Minor Scale. It was called "Harmonic" because its use is mainly harmony although it is sometimes used for melody, too.

Harmonic minor: C , D, Eb, F, G, Ab, B, C

From a melodic perspective, the harmonic minor has an awkward and hard-to-sing interval in going from the 6th note to the 7th note -- namely, Ab to B in C harmonic minor. This interval is called an augmented 2nd.

To make it easier for singers and also to give a more comfortable musical sound, the melodic minor also raises the 6th note of the scale -- that is, Ab becomes A. Now, to complicate things even more, the melodic minor has different forms. The ascending form raises the 6th and 7th notes while the descending form uses the standard natural minor with the 6th and 7th notes given as in the key signature. This scale is called "Melodic" because it is designed for use mostly with minor melodies.

This gives...

Melodic minor: C, D, Eb, F, G, A, B, C (going up)

and C, Bb, Ab, G, F, Eb, D, A (going down).

The chord progression you've used is a bass line that's based on the descending melodic minor but uses the sharpened 7th from the harmonic minor in the G chord (or G7 chord -- in fact G7 will probably give you a stronger cadential sound that simply G).

The chord progression C major, Ab major, Bb major, G major (or G7) is a great one available to minor keys.

Hope the above helps with some understanding.

Regards,
Noel

P.S. One other thing that often happens in minor keys is that the very final chord at the end of a work that is played is the tonic major rather than the tonic minor. That is C maj rather than C min in the key of C minor. This is called the Tierce de Picardy (the Picardy Third) and only applies to the final chord of a work. Bach used to use it regularly as it gave a satisfying sense of completion.

Nice Noel..... I haven't thought about those minor key variations since music theory class years ago. Thanks for the refresher.

Thanks for commenting on this Noel. I was going to post a link earlier but I didn't have time to comment on it.

Here's the link.

http://musictheorysite.com/minor-scales/

Thanks for the good post and description.

Thanks Noel,

It is a little after midnight here. I read your post and think I understand everything. Thanks for taking the time to go over all that.

Perhaps tomorrow I will try to play this out on the piano....I am not very skilled on piano but hearing what I have in mind will make the questions more understandable.

At this stage I only have the chord progression and some of the bass line written. I had in mind for some of the melody line to be played on guitar. There are some concept lyrics but far from finished. There is one signature riff on the piano.

I will catch up with you guys tomorrow.

Cheers,

Billy

Hi,

Just all the chords played out...just a short clip of the idea.

https://soundcloud.com/planobilly/space-2

If anything about the chord progression seems out of wack, let me know.

Thanks,

Billy