Hi Folks.
I know some of you know your way around electronics, I was wondering if you can point me in the right direction. Just to be clear from the start, for this setup I do not want a conventional or portable mixer. Scenario: an ipad + laptop with audio interface.  I want to use single headphones to audition both.

Ipad and laptop interface both have 3.5mm stereo outputs. Headphones also 3.5mm.  Smallest footprint is the key.  I know small mixer will do it, but I do not want to do that for this setup. Also I do not want to use input of the interface,  because it would require connecting a mighty breakout cable. If I use a plain, "passive" multi input splitter, the sound will bleed and distort (clicks) the output that comes from the pc interface to headphones. 

Is there a discrete splitter or adapter that would prevent sound/signal bleed?  I do not care for adjustable volume levels of the mixer I can adjust these at source. This is not for recording or anything remotely professional., just  so I do not plug / unplug things 100s of times.  Not even sure what I should look for to accomplish this... Hopefully nothing powered...  some sort of inline filter? The simpler - the better

Thank you in advance. 

Hi,

What you are asking to do is the very definition of a audio mixer. Here is a very tiny passive audio mixer. Little Bear MC5 Mini Portable Stereo 4 Channel Audio Mixer Passive Live Studio Console Recording Low Noise (No Power Needed) $30 dollars. At least with Amazon you can send it back if you don't like it. It has 3.5 mm inputs and outputs. Fits in the palm of your hand. It would require a cable from each device.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=tiny+audio+mixer&crid=ABAPLCBTR68U&sprefix=tiny+audio+%2Caps%2C198&ref=nb_sb_ss_midas-iss-sm_3_11

There are some two channel ones from China for around $13 dollars but they need battery power and it is a bit hard to understand how they work without a schematic.

This web site shows how to build one so you can see that it is not a simple thing to do.

https://www.circuitlib.com/index.php/tutorials/product/39-how-to-build-an-audio-mixer

I am assuming stereo coming out of both of your devices.

There may be other ways to do what you are asking for that I don't know about. Video Track may know a better answer.

Billy

EDIT: After reading your post a couple of more times I am not sure just what you are trying to do. Please explain.

Billy,
It is easy.
There are couple of chord & harmony exploring apps that I use and they are only available on ipad. I use such apps as reference tools when building out a progression in BIAB... I need to be able to "hear" those apps while I use BIAB. Also, it has to be through headphones. So, two separate outputs to single headphones.

Yes, I looked at that "little bear" mixer earlier. Cheap enough, but... I was hoping there is some sort of special and basic (without knobs etc) Y cable with resistor or such, that would prevent one output leaking signal to another, because that is what I am getting if I use a splitter similar to the one in attachment and it creates clicks/distortion. Maybe there is no such thing. I do not know

Misha.

RustySpoon#,

The problem with splitter connectors is they change the impedance, or how much of a load is placed on each headphone circuit. An analogy would be connecting equipment that draws a lot of electricity (like a heater or hair dryer) to all the connections on an electrical extension cord and using them all at one time. The extension cord would overheat and the electrical circuit shut down. That is what the splitter is doing, just on a smaller scale.

The passive mixers match each output to the equipment connected. The overall audio volume is lower because the volume is directed to multiple locations but the audio shouldn't break up because the output matches the equipment.

One alternative is to search for a pair of wired surround sound headphones. Wired surround sound headphones have multiple input cords sending multiple audio signals to multiple left and right drivers, or speakers.

I found some blue tooth surround headphones but they require a blue tooth transmitter per device and latency is an issue.

Hi,

Perhaps there is a way to do what you want to do that I am not aware of.

Are you needing to inject the signal from the ipad into the computer or just listen to it?

What are you using the interface connected to you computer for? Mic? Instrument?

Are you typing the chords/chord progression into BIAB?

I am still not clear on what you are actually doing.

Billy

This would do what you are asking...perhaps. It is the most basic form of mixing a audio signal. It is called a summing amplifier.



WE would need to get Trevor in on this conversation or perhaps Jim understands this well enough to speak to the issue.

Billy

This will give you a better idea how headphones work.

https://mynewmicrophone.com/an-in-depth-look-into-how-headphone-cables-carry-audio/

Come out of the phone into a mixer, and out of the headphone jack of your interface. That will result in the inputs from both sources being the same impedance. But as Billy said, this is the definition of what a mixer does. You can buy a small scale mixer like this



for 25-30 bucks on Craigslist.

Jim, Billy,
Thank you for trying!

I really do not want to overcomplicate things Question might seem strange, but the point is actually to make things simpler, to cut away traditional or mini mixer out of the equation.


Billy you want to know my trade secrets? (joke)
I type in chords into BIAB. There are couple of very useful ipad apps for exploring chords and how they sound, and also a harmony mapping app that lets you experiment on the fly and suggests ways progression can be accomplished. If I am doing something that I am not familiar with, I would do it "by ear" using ipad apps. But one thing is hearing basic chords and another is how BIAB Rts will interpret them within arrangement, so sometimes I would make a lot of changes going back and forth just to find path that I feel is the one that I want.... Plugging and unplugging headphones from interface to ipad. I do have proper setup where I record, a studio space if you prefer, but most of musical sketches I do is through a different, a smaller interface that does not have stereo input for monitoring.

The "little bear" that Billy mentioned will do what is needed, I was actually looking at it yesterday as an alternative, but I was thinking there something even more simplistic is readily available.

A headphone amplifier is what you're looking for. This cheap Behringer accepts two inputs and has 4 output channels that are eight outputs as they're duplicated on the rear panel. Each output is selectable between the two inputs with a push button. Ipad into input A and Laptop into input B

This device has a small footprint and excellent and strong output signals. I currently have one but have had several and they have all performed great.
Behringer MiniAmp AMP800 4-channel Headphone Amplifier

Charlie thanks!
I went with your suggestion, but my own way.
Seems there is no easy way out not getting some sort of mix box.
Found a cool looking, non-powered (!) small mixer that has impedance adjustment and bunch of other, perhaps useful buttons. Pokket Mixer Mini DJ Mixer...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv6OU5Oc1ng

Found a pre-owned cheap. Will post back with results

Glad you got it worked out. That little device should do the trick. It certainly won't take up much space and the input/output plugs match well with your input devices so you don't need to add any adaptors. Do let us know the results you get with it.

In Rustyspoon's scenario, this summing amp would not work because it functions just as a mixer and if you examine the three inputs, they are summed (merged, mixed) with no way to mute two inputs to hear one or to then switch to another input.

As others have pointed out, passive signal splitters don't isolate the signals from each either, they mix the input signals into a single output.

The Behringer headphone amp is not a mixer. The two inputs are discrete and isolated from each other and only one input can be selected at a time. A user selects which input to feed the headphones with a push button switch. The two signals are not internally mixed and the signal level can be controlled from the source or the headphone amp.

According to the video Misha posted, the Pokket DJ Mixer can select between left and right input or mix between the two. It's the best of both worlds.

Except for the fact that the man specifically said that he didn’t want to use a mixer, this would have been a great answer.

And then he went out and bought a mixer.

Well, If you only need to hear one device at a time...here is the answer.



LOL

Billy

Keith,
Thank you for shielding my initial request of trying to avoid mixer

Eddie, I spent over an hour trying to search for just a splitter that would have some sort of resistor (?) that would prevent signal leak into output of interface. But could not find anything remotely close to what I was looking for..as I was not sure WHAT I am looking for...
So if even Jim, Billy and Charlie could not suggest something readily made and simple to the bone, I bought what I bought. Who knows, maybe because it is unpowered I will run into same issue of signal leaking. Will post back when I get it.

Billy Lol, but actually you gave me an idea. I will go with A/B switcher if signal will leak with unpowered mixer I bought. Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/4minds-Splitter-selector-Computer-Headphones/dp/B0776JX4JQ

Billy, you are an electronic genius !
Who would've thought of that contraption ?!

The Audio Switch Box is a bit more modern looking but it does exactly the same thing as my switch.

Due to the fact the headphones work well with both devices there are no impedance issues.

To go from one device to the other requires a switch. That switch could be as simple as unplugging and plugin in the headset...that is what you have been doing and controlling the volume with the device.

To listen to both devices at the same time requires a mixer. of some sort.

What is the Ipad software you are using? It would be fun to take a look at.

I tend to play in key for the most part and have a pretty developed sense of what effect certain chords will have. The demos in BIAB in various styles will give you many good ideas about chord progressions.

Billy

A Y cord. Although, you risk releasing the magic smoke if things disagree with each other in a substantial way.

As long as the power level is low, the worst case scenario is it doesn't work or acts peculiar.

You're feeding two outputs into the same thing and tying them together electrically when you use a Y cord.... but I seem to recall doing something like this when I was younger and didn't have the resources to buy the right tools for the job. I'm still alive and I have all 10 fingers..... so it must not have been a total disaster.

RustySpoon#, if your other device doesn't work, do an internet search for an +++ audio switcher +++. They use to be common in the sixties through the eighties. There are 2 input to 1 output, 4 input to 1 output, 3.5 mm connections, RCA connections, 1/4" connections.

Herb, first thing I tried was y splitter, but Apogee interface does not like signal coming from ipad, and produces static clicks / pops.
--
Jim, thanks. Yep, if that mini mixer fails, switcher would be my next stop.
--
Billy,
There are a few things I use on ipad.

ChordTap - older title. Has about 300 chord variations on single (!) screen. Tap to hear chords. Nice and simple.

Mapping Tonal Harmony- Mostly Jazz standards, but super fun software to learn chord movements and try your own interpretations.

Suggester - interesting chord / progression exploring software

also Yamaha Mobile Sequencer, which is essentially a grown up version of Yamaha QY100 (has all the styles from that arranger as well)

Hi MIsha,

I downloaded a few of the software's apps to one of my ipads. Sort of fun stuff to mess around with.

Pocket Comp was one that had some rhythm ideas. I can more or less play any chord I want on the piano. I sometimes look up some that I don't remember.

When I write something I start out simple and then latter add more complex chords.

I have used many ways of creating songs. If I am just fishing around for a new idea I listen to drum lines and then play the bass part which more or less defines the chord structure. I almost always use a click track.

Certain chords convey in general a certain feel or mood. As I have said before I generally try to stay in key and have a certain dislike for songs that go all over the place key wise. I take things out of key often enough but not with out a reason.

Your chord progression can safely venture out of its scale by adding a non-diatonic chord, which is a chord that contains one or more notes from outside that scale, as long as that non-diatonic chord still contains at least one note from that scale.

You can also use a chord that is out of key because it has been done so many times before it just sounds correct.

Understanding music theory will make the apps more fun to play with.

Sometimes with BIAB I will type 8 bars of chords and if I like it I will save it before BIAB has a chance to screw it up...lol

The best money you can spend is to get a small keyboard to hook up to your interface. One with drum pads makes it extra cool. There is a ton of free keyboard VSTs you can load in you DAW.

Billy

You want to stay away from D minor though.

Rustyspoon - can I ask why you don't want to patch into your audio interface inputs? The absolute cheapest option is to plug your iPad in there and use the interface monitor. A cable like this would probably do it:

https://hosatech.com/products/analog-audio/stereo-breakouts/hosa-breakouts/cmp-150/

I do this all the time with client's cellphones/laptops/etc. As others have mentioned with passive devices, your headphone volume and clarity will take a hit.

Billy,
you said it right: "I have used many ways of creating songs."
I like randomness, but not to the point of drastic abstraction in music. When I compose my doodles, I like to do it intuitively, trying out new and not very familiar ways. My problem is, I like all kind of styles and genres, can't play none right but wonderful software / hardware combination allows me to "participate" in "bands" and does not judge my skills or my contribution. Different piano (guitar?) strokes for different music folks.(c)

Eddie,
lol, your art? Could also be made into a nice cheese cutting board.

Simon,
This is my secondary, "light" setup that I use when time permits (breaks between work) to compose things, not where I record.
In this setup I have Apogee One (interface), my headphones and ipad. Apogee doesn't have a normal way to connect "stereo" input. My main interface does, but not this little guy.
"headphone volume and clarity will take a hit." I know... just do not know how hard of a hit it would be without trying

Sorry Eddie, Money for Nothing and chicks for free does not sound very sad...lol Written in D Minor

Major and Minor are Objective. ‘Happy’ and ‘Sad’ are Subjective.

It is a pretty cool cutting board...well...until you cut your finger off and the blood runs off the cabinet top and the cat licked it up as it hits the floor which infuriates the dog who eats the cat and you can't shoot the dog because your shooting finger has been cut off. What a revolting development this has turned out to be said Chester as the mind police arrive to take you away...lol

Context plays the larger roll.

Billy

Ok... update
got the small box.
Unfortunately the way it is set up, you can only use headphones to monitor either A or B...not simultaneously (Talking about Billy's switch thought!)
The mix output works as intended, but has to be amplified significantly -> headphones would not pull at all.

Ohh well, should of done more reading. Fortunately, I got it for a fraction of the "New" price, so will use it as A/B switch. It is smaller and lighter than my phone, so the good part is, it will not occupy scarce table's real estate.