Hi Folks,

Please tell me if this has already been raised here.

I find most of the Bass Real Tracks are muddy and need significant EQ (and other effects).

I am currently working on a song using the excellent 4235 (Dave
Roe) Real Track and it is very muddy.

Does anybody else have this problem or is it just me?

Best Regards
Nigel

I always EQ bass RTs, FWIW
They work fine, but are recorded without much flavor, which is probably intentional
I wouldn't call them 'muddy' but a bit of EQ can make them come to life quite a bit, which is my preference

There is no DI version for 4235, and it's fingered, you can try a picked one or use the midi with a virtual instrument or Sforzando with a PG library instrument.

If the bass track has a DI option then you can put your own amp sim on it. My DAW Logic Pro has a multitude of bass amps that I use but frequently forget to mention. In the absence of the DI option I like Neutron’s electric bass presets as I can typically find one that with a few tweaks helps the bass sit in the mix. Also Neutron has a feature that lets you examine how well one track is working with another. This allows you to, e.g., adjust the eq of the kick drum and bass to keep them more separated via visual presentation of conflicts.

Bud

I find that there are some really good bass tracks in BIAB and a lot of pretty marginal tracks. Most of the bass tracks are pretty generic, to begin with. It depends on the style of music as to how useful they are.
The country and Americana genre bass tracks are generally usable but all require adjustments with EQ and compression. BIAB has hundreds of bass tracks that I have not listened to so I certainly do know everything.

If there is a DI track, in general, I prefer to use that and use Trillian as the amp sim. Actually, I find it is less work to use midi tracks when available.

I think we all ask BIAB to do things that it is just not capable of. You will not find the likes of Billy Sheehan, Marcus Miller, or Paul McCartney in BIAB.

BIAB is a great piece of software for what it is capable of doing. Very little is A list studio quality recordings. Add the algorithms needed to make it work and often one will find "muddy" recordings.

Just my two cents worth.

Billy

As a Mac BiaB beta tester I listen to hundreds of RT tracks and being a bass player I find the quality of bass RT’s (and other RTs) to be well suited for a pro level project. During our licensing of RT based songs and conversations with significant Spotify curators I’ve never received a complaint or had an issue raised about the quality of the tracks. Often to “personalize” the track to your tune comping helps as does occasional shifting of notes. And as I mentioned in my previous response some effort, in my experience, is frequently necessary to enable a bass track to cooperate with other tracks - most notably drums. FWIW, YMMV, IMHO, etc.

Bud

I think the RealTracks are actually quite good, but they need some mixing-love to shine (like any other studio recording).
There's a reason why "mixing" is still a profession.

The first thing that comes to my mind is How are you monitoring?

Otherwise, like the others, I find that some styles need more love and attention on the bottom end than others. I like Bud's suggestion of using amp sims, too.

As a pro bassist growing up in the '60s–'70s, I often like my bass on what others consider the dark side. I don't do "in your face" bass.

Gibson basses with the huge "mudbucker" pickup... Can't believe I owned 3 of those over the years but all got DiMarzio Model One replacements to get some midrange into the sound. All were sold 20 years before the stroke that crippled my left arm 14 years ago. It's hard to believe those are now worth some serious coin and Gibson is making them again.

"It's hard to believe those are now worth some serious coin and Gibson is making them again."

LOL Mike, the things we have sold that are worth big bucks now!

I have a pretty modern Music Man bass. I also have a P bass which I think is a 1967 Fender. I have no idea what it is worth.

I play through an older RB800 Gallien-Krueger amp through four tens (Gallien-Krueger) and one fifteen (Sun) or DI and use mostly Trillian for a sim.

All the bass guitars I own will sound different depending on what amps are used and, even more, what speaker cabinets. Tube bass amps have a different sound than transistor amps. I build tube bass amps for clients as a hobby. A 200-watt tube bass amp is pretty pricey.

The last studio experiences were generally DI. In times past we would have used a Neumann u47 in a pro studio if it were available to mic the bass cab. Any large diaphragm condenser mic would work. Every engineer has their own ideas, depending on the type of sound/music one wants.

Custom wound pickups are also common now as in the past.

One of my complaints about BIAB bass is the synchronization with the drums. It is not a studio engineer's job to tell the drummer and the bass player how to play or fix their mistakes for that matter.

This is one of the main issues with Real Tracks. There is a limit to what can be changed.

Most people nowadays want convenience and care little for quality. Why carry an Ampeg bass head and a ton of cabinets around when you can play through a Lap Top and an amp sim?

I don't think major studios have to worry about being run out of business by BIAB...lol I also don't think BIAB has to worry about competition from pro recording studios.

The days of taking three years and a couple of million dollars to produce "Exile On Main Street" are over, even for the Stones.

Most industry people would say a modern album costs 150K to a million.
People are not recording in Abbey Road Studios because they like the tea. There are and have been a few good high-quality albums produced in the last few years for 10K to 15K.

I have said it a thousand times. BIAB is a great product. Don't expect it to do something it was never designed to do.

Billy

+1

Nigel,.

I went and looked that real track up because I was curious. It's not very common to have muddy tracks in the real tracks. Some are less than optimal but they are mostly pretty good right out of the box in my experience. Some need EQ but many don't.

Dave Roe, Bass, Electric Blues funk finger picked. Man this sounded really good. Nice and clean, full bottom end and nice high end. Same result when I soloed it.

My question would be, how are you monitoring it? I'm using Mackie MR-5.... 5" cones and a 10" Polk sub running 100w.

That's a good sounding track IMHO

Howdy Nigel....

For my default writing propensity I've found very good bass tracks.
But....where I've had a few issues is when it's an acoustic bass/standup bass in the 'style'.
I found some that are mushy with very indistinct notes and not rendered well.
With one of my somewhat recent instrumental tracks (Tranquility) even regenerating didn't give me the result I was looking for.
So....I just ended up playing the bass lines myself with my Roland MBD-1 which is a bass/drums module.

But....there's still no app like BIAB....I love this program.

Back to it....

Nigel,
I often find them muddy & almost as often not to my liking for a bundle of other reasons.
I have an EQ preset for BIAB bass...small, precise cuts at 70 & 120Hz. Insert BIAB bass, try it dry, try it with those two activated, try a high pass for under 50 if needed. Often I need to add a small, narrow peak around 3Khz - or where ever the presence/cut through is so that's in my BIAB Bass preset too.
BIAB bass/kick drums are almost uniformly problematic for me...recorded & pre EQd to make the beater seem like a click which is very modern but something I don't care for.
Getting a BIAB bass to sit with the kick and then within the mix almost always a case of much twiddling...I have fewer probs with my own basses.
Given the above comments, perhaps an antipodean problem.

Hi Ray,

Antipodean - you may be right I may be crazy (Billy Joel).

I have a similar Bass Preset which I apply to all BIAB Bass Real Tracks. It has a 4db cut at 120Hz with a Q of 1.5.

I havn't tried your cut at 70Hz or peak at 3K but I will.

Best Regards
Nigel

Your knowledge and skills are impressive, Bud.

Indeed.

I'm working to get a solid pocket (bass+drums only) from biab.
It can be more challenging than one thinks.
Often those other instruments we add to the arrangements act as helpers in the groove.
When you strip it down to bass & drums sometimes theres something lacking.

Thank you. And FWIW my digital mixing chops ALL came from the support of folks like you on this forum over the years.

Bud

They work fine, but are recorded without much flavor, which is probably intentional