Given the keyboard notes shown, the chord is definitely C/F... that is, a C major triad with notes C-E-G sits above an F bass. The notes of the C chord can be in any order since they are above the bass. This is a closed position because the three note E-G-C are all within an octave.
C/F is the most accurate interpretation of notes shown.
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Fmaj7sus2 is a version of Fmaj9 (BIAB has this), I suggest trying that.
Fmaj7sus2 = F(bass)-F-G-C-E
Fmaj9 = F(bass)-A-C-E-G
Last edited by Noel96; 11/20/2203:27 AM. Reason: correcting notes in Fmaj7sus2... I was thinking of a classical 9 to 8 supsension and not a replacement for the 3rd
Noel, not to be picky, but I don't agree with your intrepretation. Mainly because when I play a C/F I don't hear the FMaj7sus2. The voicing is not equivalent. Of course BIAB does not know the difference between a C triad in first inversion with an F in the bass versus a C triad with F in the bass, so that may be the best advice here, but my ears hear the difference.
If you are entering 1-1/4 or C-C/F I can see why BIAB may get confused as the '-' implies a minor chord, though I certainly agree that the 1/4 is displays is odd.
I agree with Noel that C/F is probably the 'correct' notation, but also I agree that the particular notes Scaler has chosen are a specific voicing and would not necessarily be the same in any other tool.
For me, I would expect an FMaj7(sus2) would use only the notes F-G-C-E, because I would expect the 'sus' note to replace the 3. It is not uncommon to omit note(s), nor to reorganise them.
I think there is probably now way automatically to make BIAB use an F as the bass note and use an inversion of the CMaj above it, other than writing the notes yourself.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Welcome to a guitarist dilemma! With just a few notes the chord name could be a number of things. When I put in order F,C,E,G into my guitar chord finder program some possible chords are: Fmaj7sus2, C(add11), C/F, Em(b6b9). Em(b6)/F, G13sus, or G13sus/F
It really doesn't matter what inversion of F,C,E,G I put in I get mostly the same chord names.
Also a F,C,E,G could be a Fmaj9(no 3rd).
The late JonD, a keyboard player, and I had many discussions about this as I could usually only play 3-4 notes of a chord while he could play up to 10 notes per chord. We might have to try a number of different chords to find the one that best fits our compositions.
IMHO it is impossible for BiaB to cover all chords and chord inversions. There are just to many of them for the RTs to cover. In MIDI you can easily change BiaB chords in a DAW to be exactly the chord you wanted. With RTs it takes a DAW and a polyphonic version of Melodyne or another Melodyne like program to create your chord.
Last edited by MarioD; 11/19/2208:37 AM.
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I think it's a dilemma with most chording instruments. There are always several ways one can play any particular chord.
Originally Posted By: MarioD
The late JonD, a keyboard player, and I had many discussions about this as I could usually only play 3-4 notes of a chord while he could play up to 10 notes per chord.
For block chords you're limited, of course, by six strings as well as getting one's head around the fingerings I have generally struggled to get past around 4/5 notes per chord as my head hurts when I try and my hands aren't big enough for some of the interesting ones. I can manage a ninth. Any further and I'm usually in trouble.
Originally Posted By: MarioD
IMHO it is impossible for BiaB to cover all chords and chord inversions. There are just to many of them for the RTs to cover.
Well, certainly unrealistic and quite possibly counterproductive. I could see one spending more time with trying to control the voicings that actually producing any music. The permutations of eight or notes over three octave will be a very large number
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Before I answered a question like this, I would want to know what genre of music is it, and what is the chord progression (particularly the chords just before and just after).
If the progression is C to this to G, then I’m not going to give some complex chord when you are looking for something simpler such as C/F
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Here you go Mario, from one old guitar player to another. Bar chord with one other finger and some muting, or let the bass get the F. Its the 1st inversion C which is distinctive. BIAB has done us no favor by not playing inversions.
Here you go Mario, from one old guitar player to another. Bar chord with one other finger and some muting, or let the bass get the F. Its the 1st inversion C which is distinctive. BIAB has done us no favor by not playing inversions.
Fmaj7(sus2), now I known you have played this!
Yep, and also this as well as a few different inversions of the same chord, as I know you have also:
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Noel, not to be picky, but I don't agree with your interpretation. Mainly because when I play a C/F I don't hear the FMaj7sus2. The voicing is not equivalent. Of course BIAB does not know the difference between a C triad in first inversion with an F in the bass versus a C triad with F in the bass, so that may be the best advice here, but my ears hear the difference.
Hi Dan,
My comment was written from a classical harmony perspective. From this viewpoint, the inversion of a chord is determined by the lowest note. This stands out to the ear. In an orchestra, this note is usually played by cellos and double basses. While the inversion of the notes that sit on top of this bass note can vary the sonic texture, the overall inversion of a chord and its harmonic movement is determined by the bass note. The below video explains this quite well (2:58 to 4:40 is worth looking at).
For a solo guitar player, a chord's inversion is solely controlled by the way the notes on the guitar are played. In a group, though, the bass guitar ultimately controls the overall chord inversion.
Thanks Noel, I appreciate the clarification. Will give this a study.
What really caught my attention was the "...when I play a C/F I don't hear the FMaj7sus2". The example provided showed by the OP showed the intended voicing on the keyboard which set the C at the top of the chord making it the most prominate for melody. The problem with substituing this voicing with C/F places a G on top - dramatically different. Unfortunely, BIAB does not allow one to specify the voicing. That is my biggest objection.
Otherwise, all is good. I may have gone off on a tangent. I tend to have issues with slash chords and inversions and how BIAB treats these. In fact I don't consider C/F an inversion. I consider it a slash chord since the F is not a chord tone. But I tend to struggle with this so likely I need to study some more.
In fact, I have another puzzle, that is, when I input 1/4 It will become a rhythm change, instead of normal input as in other bars. Therefore, if in C major, I want a quarter of the bar I can only write C/F or 1/F, or C/4. 1/4 can be input normally I wonder if there is any better way?
Chord naming gets complicated I agree with Matt, you'd need to know the context, but even then it can still be open to interpretation, is this a solo guitarist or full band, it all makes a difference and at the end of the day it's more about giving the other musicians an idea of how the chords should be moving harmonically. When you name a chord anything other than what it actually is, then there's really no way of knowing the chord's intention unless it is explicitly written. Play something in the wrong inversion and it can sound completely wrong. This is the problem with chord books as opposed to actual notation.
A few points here about this chord - first off, the C major triad is already well established, it's not easy to "un-hear". Those four notes alone can really only be two things, C/F or Cadd11. If F is in the bass I'd call it C/F, anything else I'd call it Cadd11. If this was a six note chord then I might think differently, but if we aren't told what the other two notes are then we can only work with what we have.
Sus chords have a suspended third and nothing else, although modern interpretations will use the term for the replacement of other scale degrees (sus7 for example) - technically it's not correct but I guess things evolve wrong or right. The whole point of a Sus4 chord was to add suspension intended to be resolved to the major 3rd. In modern music Sus4 chords do not always resolve so it has become a chord in its own right - this brings another problem.. Sus2 chords?
Again, (technically) they don't exist because they are just inversions of Sus4 chords, eg. Fsus2 is just a Csus4 inverted. This is where context comes in. If we have a chord progression that goes C, F, G but the C is played with a D instead of E then it probably makes more sense to call it a Sus 2 because we'll just think of it as a modified C because the overall sound is still a I-IV-V ... but again, technically, and pedantically, it's still kind of a Sus4 simply because there's not much suspension in a whole tone as there is in a semitone. A better name for sus2 is probably "add9, no 3rd" but who'd want to call it that.
Fmaj7sus2? If you were ever going to name it that, then there cannot be an A in the chord - if there is then it isn't suspended. If it also included the 3rd then it's an Fmaj9. If it doesn't then it becomes difficult to NOT hear the fact it's dominated by a C major triad. This, in my opinion, makes it a chord name that just sounds wrong. So in short, in isolation played on a single instrument, I think it would be difficult to name it anything other than C/F or Cadd11. In a full band context I would expect somebody else is probably playing the M3rd - in which case it's an Fmaj9 - but if they weren't then I'd expect the maj3rd to sound OK if it were added - if it didn't, then it's probably not meant to be any form of F major.
This is why it all gets so complicated - all of the above is open to opinion and interpretation. Bottom line - a chord cannot be anything other than the notes it contains - if it is intended to have a different function then this can never be done with just a basic chord name, it's either notated properly or it's left to the musician to make their own mind up - and this will always lead to differences of opinion.
OK, I Love all the music nerd stuff. Lee, Noel, Matt, Gordon, Mario (and Swing..) - I really appreciate the inputs.
To keep the fun going, let me turn back to the original OP question. The question was, how do I play F,E,G,C in BIAB? - set aside all the ambiguity of chord naming (although it is fun) and I think we all agree, the answer to his question is , "...it can't be done in BIAB with realtracks"
I think this is summed up in this video. Hence my obsession and greatest dissappointment the day I discovered that BIAB (RTs) does not control chord voicing.
One of the big complications that can arise here is that chord voicings can be quite different from a standard triad or tetrad in plain inversion, though perhaps(!) this is more of a jazz thing than in other music forms.
I'm thinking here particularly of quartal and quintal voicings, and polychord voicings, where the chord notes, quite possibly plus some extensions, can be in a significantly different order from those in a triad, inverted or not. Similar with shell voicings. It would be reasonable to play a shell in the left hand and, say, stacked fourths or fifths in the right hand (I wish ... keep practicing Gordon). Voice leading also means typically that one is moving between root positions and inverted positions.
I guess there might be feasible to add checkboxes and/or radio buttons, e.g. "favour quartal voicings", but it seems to me fraught with issues.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
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