PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows New User Advice Needed

I'm new to the forum and would really appreciate some advice from those who know a lot more about this than me. I play guitar through an Atomic AmpliFire and at the moment I play in a band but once this Covid-19 scare clears up I'll be moving to China to work for a couple of years. At my age I doubt I'll ever play in a band again so I'd like something to play along with and something to possibly record with as I develop my own ideas. Band-in-a-Box seems like a great option but I do have a number of questions:

1) Can I do all of this with BIAB?
2) Will I need a separate DAW?
3) I will need some sort of interface and an iRig HD2 comes with AmpliTube 4 so would I be better using my Atomic for my guitar tones or would it be easier/better using AmpliTube?
4) If I do need a separate DAW, I've already tried Studio One and found it so complicated that I ended up recording nothing at all. Which is the easiest DAW for a bone-head like me to use with BIAB?
5) Of all the options for BIAB, which one would be best suited to what I'm looking for?

If you need any further information, please just ask as I really am feeling a bit lost with this.

Many thanks.

BiaB is a great resource to create backing tracks to play along with. It comes with a free DAW called Realband. Many will tell you it not good but that is a subjective opinion. The combo of BiaB and RB can be very effective to accomplish what you want to do. If you want to practice or want to capture ideas and such there is enough to keep you busy.

I have studio one and find it easy but I have been doing this since well forever. The advantage to RB is it opens BiaB files and you can add to them.

A friend just left China after 5-6 years teaching American (culture, language, etc.) to children. She is now in Poland - teaching adults this time.

You are going to have the time of your life.

As for BIAB and RB, it will accomplish everything you want.

...Deb

My suggestions for 1, 2, 4 and 5 :
1,2: You should be able to deliver just about everything with BiaB and probably not need a separate DAW.
4: BiaB includes a mixer which can be used to manipulate data on each of its tracks (levels, pan, choice of instruments, genres, etc). It's not a DAW, but if you want a band to play along with, this will certainly work straight out of the box.
5: Go for the highest package that your budget allows.

Most of your questions have been answered but I will add that RealBand only comes with the PC version of BiaB. Since you do not have a DAW now just learn RealBand. Most all of the commands are similar between DAWs, there is usually just terminology and GUI differences. Note that I found Studio One Pro very easy, but I have been recording since the late 1970 using sequencers back then.

I suggest that you get the Ultra pak. This includes everything and most people end up upgrading to it. The BiaB engine is the same in all purchasing options, it is just the number of add ons that increase. That is your will get more MIDI styles, RealTracks, RealDums, and those accompanying styles.

Thanks guys, this is awesome! It's particularly encouraging to find a friendly and active forum for support and advice as I'm sure I'll need it. I think I had two problems with Studio One, the main one being that I'm 55 years old and never tried recording a single thing in my life so I have absolutely zero knowledge of the technology. The other issue was that I'm currently in the Falklands where the internet is very limited, very expensive and VERY slow so when I downloaded Studio One it took a long time and perhaps some features didn't download properly. That said, I'm sure it was more down to my total incompetence with the technology!

The UltraPak is a lot of money so I was hoping to get away with buying a cheaper option but if most people end up moving up to that anyway, I guess it's more cost effective in the long run. Now I just need to decide if I'm going to ship my entire pedalboard to China and play through my Atomic or just use AmpliTube. Covid-19 permitting, I should be back in the UK for 5 or 6 weeks before flying out to China so I can always give AmpliTube a try and if I don't like it, I'll ship the pedalboard. I'll be teaching English language to Chinese students in an international school so I'm looking forward to the adventure. I've been on holiday to China before and absolutely loved the experience so working there for two years should be an incredible experience.

PG Music have a 30-day money back guarantee. It's possible to use this to an advantage when making decisions.

What I suggest is...

1. Buy the entry level BIAB (the ProPAK). This is able to be downloaded relatively easily and wouldn't incur the cost of a separate hard drive (this or the freight associated with it might not be refundable, I don't know).

The entry level of the program has a limited number of styles Realtracks, Realdrums and MIDI Supertracks. It has sufficient instruments and styles, though, for playing around with and for making an informed judgement as to whether or not BIAB is for you.

2. If you don't like it, ask for your money back (if it's within 30 days, that is).

3. If you do like the program, consider upgrading to the UltraPAK. This gives the user everything that is available (except for Realtracks, Realdrums and MIDI Supertracks that are only available as Bonus material).

If this interests you, BIAB will refund the ProPAK purchase towards the cost of the UltraPAK.

The above is something that you should discuss with PG Music sales staff just to confirm that it's possible.

Regards,
Noel

Oh, just a youngster around these parts.

Welcome to the forum.

<<< "I'm 55 years old and never tried recording a single thing in my life so I have absolutely zero knowledge of the technology." >>>

You are a perfect candidate for a stand alone digital multi track recorder. They are easy to learn. Easy to navigate and you can be up and running in minutes. If you can record a song on a cassette deck, you can record a song on a multi track recorder. These folks are not kidding when they tell you it's taken them years to be comfortable recording with a computer and DAW and most will tell you they are still learning.

I recommend you purchase the Ultra Pak version of BIAB from the start. If you like it you're done. If you don't like it and return it for a refund, the 30 day return policy applies to every version, not just the cheapest entry version.

If you like it, you have everything you will need to produce quality backing tracks and will not have to deal with the frustration of not having all the Styles and RealTracks or dealing with international shipping and waiting to have all the fun BIAB offers.

It is quite easy to get BIAB backing tracks into a digital Multi Track song project and then add any additional instrument parts you play and vocals. You can mix and master a project to completion using a multi track recorder. Some models will operate for hours from battery power allowing you to record anywhere and in areas where mains power may not be reliable or you may reside in an area where the view is beautiful and musically inspiring. Modern units use SD cards and have USB so they can also be used in conjunction with computers and DAW's for advanced editing if it's necessary.

just a quick plug for the BIAB download manager. once you've installed the basic package you can let the program download the larger files that make up RealTracks.

i live in the mainland UK so maybe our broadband is better than yours but for downloads you can just let BIAB look after itself.

For recording, I agree with Charlie Fogle.
I bought a portable 8 track about 3 years ago and life suddenly was simpler.
As hobbyist I was being put off with ensuring correct compatibility, connections etc when recording to PC. Also being tied to the PC wasn't always convenient, with the portable I can set up anywhere in a few minutes.
Mixing is possible on the portable but you'll have more options by transferring files to a DAW, RealBand is a good starting point since it is compatible with BIAB.

Good Luck
Vintage

This all sounds like good advice and it's good to know that I'm not the only old fart here!

It seems to me that I will be able to do pretty much all that I want with BIAB, even if the recorder that comes with it is more limited than a DAW like Studio One. Basically, as long as I can create a track and then record my own guitar tones on top of that, I should be good to go. If BIAB is compatible with a digital multi track recorder and it's as easy to work as an old cassette player, I can always go that route if I need more. That, however, is for another day.

I should be flying back to the UK on June 16th so I think I'll either get the BIAB program sent there or download it when I get back to the UK. I'm not sure if one is a better option than the other. I certainly won't download it here as my entire monthly (and costly) allowance is only 9GB. I can download for free between midnight and 6.00am but it's only a download speed of 3mbps at best and if I try to mdownload the Ultrpak it could take most of the rest of the year!!!

If you can download when in UK do so, otherwise you could be stung with customs and processing fees.

Vintage

Since it has been raised, I'd just like to say that I have never used a digital multitrack recorder.

What I use to create my tracks are BIAB, Realband and Reaper (a DAW). I suspect that this is true of the large majority of people on these forums.

I suggest that before racing out and buying a multitrack recorder, try working without it and see if you need it.

Noel, the first DAW was introduced in 1977. Even into the 1990's when DAW's were becoming commonplace, they were not the industry standard, either in professional studios or the home recording market. Multi track recorders were the standard. Tascam introduced the first Porta Studio cassette multi track recorder in 1979. Bruce Springsteen famously made his first album release, "Nebraska" on a Porta Studio. By the 1990's, most major artists were bringing tracks to their major studio recording sessions that they made using their 'home' studios. Alesis and Tascam and other manufacturers had digital recorders that were equally at home in home studios and commercial studios. For instance, Tascam's Da-88 digital 8 Track Recorder.

There are various configurations of multi track recorders that focus on different types of recording environments. There are field recorders that place emphasis on capturing audio for film and to replace the poor audio of video cameras. Others have recording and editing features that work best for interviews and live venue recordings. Then, there's the multi track configuration with recording and editing best suited for a music studio audio recording. While it's best results will be obtained by using a recorder in the environment its designed for, any multi track recorder can be adapted and give adequate results in any environment.

Multi tracks are nowhere near being obsolete or out of date and out of fashion. Today, in major commercial studios that have the latest DAW but still have Mixing consoles function as a multi track recorder during tracking when they input into the mixer and out to the multi tracks of their DAW. Presonus's Studio Live Mixers are examples of digital mixers with a DAW mode that allows the Studio Live to function not only as a mixer, but also a DAW controller. The Zoom R8, R16 and R24 do the same. Zoom's line of l-8,l12, l20 as well as their line of digital table control mixers all create multi track recorders. Behringer's X 18 and X 32 the same. Other major brands like Yamaha, Peavey and Mackie all have models that combine mixers with recorders or DAWs to create multi track recorders. Tascam's new mixers, the Model 24 and 16 have multi track SD recorders for multi track recording without use of a computer. BIAB can operate marvelously as a multi track recorder. The biggest difference being it generates tracks rather than have artists perform tracks.

Multi track recorders designed for the music studio environment are mixer/ recorder combinations that contain proprietary OS systems that include DAW editing and mastering functions, built in digital effects, routing options, external input/outputs, phantom power, MIDI Control, monitoring and in some models, hundreds of virtual tracks. The latest models use SD cards for storage and can connect to computers with USB connections. So while they can operate as a stand alone mixer/recorder, they can also easily communicate and transfer files to and from a computer's DAW and utilize any VST's and plug ins you may already have or purchase.

For someone like the original poster, advanced in age and having no background or experience with DAW and computer technology, who would rather spend their time making music over having to learn computer set ups, specs, deal with crashes, latency, drivers, ASIO, MME, WAS, interfaces, USB2, USB3, firewire, virtual routing, porting, mixing with a mouse rather than real buttons, knobs and faders, a multi track recorder is a smart choice to consider. Folks go to four year colleges to learn the ins and outs of digital work stations and still have to work internships when they enter the job market. It would not be a bit unusual for the this original poster or a hundred other people to purchase a DAW and it take a week to get everything set up, hearing sound and recording tracks. With a stand alone digital multi track recorder with music studio features, they will have completed multiple recordings in that week.

Today's digital multi track recorders are not inferior to computer DAWs. Even the cheapest models can record commercial grade quality audio using external preamps, DAW's and other external gear.

It's my personal belief someone can make better recordings with equipment they understand and can use over more expensive, complex tools they don't understand the software nor many times the audio principles necessary to properly use all of the tools of the DAW. A stand alone may not come with 2,200 compressors, eq's, and reverb/delays but they will have quality stock plug ins that will get the job done adequately and always have access to export tracks easily to a DAW or to an mix engineer for advanced processing.

I agree that using a computer and DAW is the norm. That does not equate to a DAW being the best choice for every one. Only the original poster is in a position to make the choice to what best suits his needs, but I suggest he review all the options and not simply follow the crowd for the sake of being part of the crowd.

Wot Charlie said.
For an "occasional" recorder like myself this is a simpler method, I can copy a guide track into the recorder, attach a decent mic or D.I. and I'm ready to rock.
However, I can see that those who record regularly would have a more dedicated system than us lowly dabblers , and would consider a recorder to be an unnecessary extra step.

Vintage

Hi Charlie,

Thank you for all that information. I knew none of it and I appreciate the time it took for you to put it together! I now feel a little more knowledgeable.

All the best,
Noel

I do like the idea of a digital multi track recorder, first and only multitrack I ever bought in 1995 was a Yamaha cassette based the MT4X a 4 track, hasn't seen the light of day in years but probably just keeping it for old times sake. Digital recorders were just about becoming popular at that time, the cassette as far as I remember on its last legs.

If I was going to buy another digital one, I would look for one with lots of built in effects and with as large as possible LCD display, to help my poor old eyes.

But with modern technology even in a simple digital recorder there are lots of menu to navigate and my personal opinion its probably just as easy to try to get to grips with a software DAW, most of the basics anwyays.

Still there is something nice in owning a nice digital recorder and having real hardware to record and touch those faders etc.

I had a Yamaha like that, bought around '89 or '90, think it was the MT3X.
It could be synched to a midi sequencer by recording the midi code, via the appropriate cables, onto track 1. It was pretty good for the time but suffered from hiss and the associated noise issues of 1/4 inch tape.
Interestingly, at the time it was about £400 (According to Google About £900 today) whereas my digital 8 track, with considerably less noise and much better spec was about £170 three years ago.

Vintage

Lots of wise words here!

Despite the cost, BIAB looks like the way to go so I will be making that investment. I'll still need some sort of interface, even if I take my Atomic to China. The iRig HD2 and Focusrite Scarlett Solo both look like solid options. The iRig obviously comes with AmpliTube 4 so that's possible guitar tones in case I don't take the Atomic so that could be very handy. The Focusrite, which I suspect is better quality, also comes with free downloads of 'Ableton Live Lite, Pro Tools First, Focusrite Red 2 & Red 3 Plug-in Suite, Softube Time & Tone Bundle and a software tool of 4 XLN Audio Addictive Keys of your choice.' Unfortunately, I have no idea what any of that means other than knowing Ableton and Pro Tools are DAWs. Is any of the rest of it guitar tones like AmpliTube?

I'm certainly going to initially just use BIAB for recording and if I feel I need more, I'll explore that problem then. If I do get something, it will certainly be something that is as simple as possible, works with BIAB and allows me to focus on playing rather than learning computer software. Charlie's comments were VERY interesting and useful, though it's the first time somebody has gone as far as describing me as 'advanced in age'!!! I know I'm old but I'd never thought of 55 as being 'advanced in age' before