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A note to Eddie about cover songs.
I get why you’re looking to elevate original songs above cover songs. I agree with the sentiment.
What I don’t get is you’re trying to denigrate working musicians in the process of expressing your “opinion”. For the record, I’m not a working musician.
You don’t have to equate playing covers with “masturbating”
You don’t have to equate playing originals with having real sex.
The REAL question is why do you have to put other people down in order to pursue your dream of playing so called "real" music???
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If you don't get the sex analogy, I can't help you other than explaining that one is better than the other, with better meaning "more satisfying", not "degree of difficulty". You want a different metaphor, why eat a hot dog if you can have a steak? Because some people are happy with hot dogs, and some prefer to hold out for the steak.
I do not put anybody down for doing what they do. You guys who take offense to my words assign that intent. All I have ever said was that it is not for me anymore. My initial goal when I started music lessons (at an age of 4 yrs 10 months) was to be famous. That was all I cared about. At the time (it was April of 1956) I wanted to be a big band guy. Goodman, Dorsey, Miller.... Then, due to my sister's collection of pop idol 45s, I wanted to be a crooning pop singer. Then I started buying my own 45s and it moved more toward Duane Eddy, then Dick Dale, and then Bill Haley and the rockabilly stuff. Then came The Beatles. When I became enamored with vocals, it was The 4 Seasons and the Beach Boys. And so forth. Ever changing. After I got my music degree, and along the way studied the famous composers and studying music composition, that interest went off in another direction and for years I bought into the "because it's what they want to hear" party line. Like everything else, eventually I tired of that concept and wanted to do my own music. I never succeeded at it, but I continued trying because you must let go of who you are to become who you want to be, and that was a writer, not a player.
Once again, my taste, my choice, my preference. If you choose to play copy music, god bless you and be the best copy band player on the face of the planet. I just won't be there to hear you because I have no appreciation for it.
Now, HOW is that putting you down?
I think things are stupid that other people don't. Big Time Rasslin', watching guys drive in a circle in really fast cars, and people who watch 40 year old golf matches on television come to mind. But of they enjoy those things, by all means do them. I prefer REAL sports. I prefer drag racing where the mechanical aspect of building those engines is at an elevated level. Golf reruns.... you decide. Trust me, if Jack beat Arnie in 1968, he will beat him again when you watch the same match in 2014.
Remember that while motivation gets things started, dedication gets things finished. Dedicate yourself to reaching your goal, even if your goal is upstream and against a strong current. You keep playing "Free Bird", I will keep trying to write the next White Christmas. And we can both be happy.
Last edited by eddie1261; 12/30/14 08:33 PM.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
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"You guys who take offense to my words assign that intent. All I have ever said was that it is not for me anymore." BWAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!!!!!Beam me UP, Scotty! 
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You guys who take offense to my words assign that intent. I don’t take offense to your words on a personal basis. I’ve written about 50 songs in a variety of styles. Oddly enough, only a small handful of them are bluegrass. Most of them are country, folk rock or pop songs. I’ve always found it to be relatively easy to write songs, especially after I started studying music theory. So I understand why you don’t want to play or listen to cover songs. What I don’t understand is why you appear to be hell bent on a mission to denigrate all of the working musicians on the forum who do perform cover songs. You don’t even want to call them musicians, even after they’ve worked their butts off to become proficient on their instruments! If you’re going to be a working musician, you HAVE to play covers. That’s one of the many reasons I’ve always avoided being a working musician. The fact is, I couldn’t possibly care less about what songs the audience wants to hear. I only care about what songs I want to play. I don’t want people on the dance floor having fun. I want them to sit down, shut up and listen, … or leave. So my attitude is totally out of sync with what it takes to be a working musician. But that doesn’t mean I don’t respect the guys who are working musicians like Notes Norton, 90db, jazzmammal and several others on the forum. Pat Marr is trying to get his gear and act together so he can live out his dream of playing cover songs tailored to what the audience wants to hear and I sincerely hope he achieves that. Eddie, you’re a cantankerous old fart. I can relate to that because I’m a cantankerous old fart too! But that doesn’t mean that either one of us should be raining on other peoples parades when they’re enjoying what they’re doing AND making a few bucks while they’re doing it. So, back to the quote: You guys who take offense to my words assign that intent. The people who are being offended aren’t “assigning that intent”. They’re being offended because you’re jumping through hoops in order to offend them.
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There is an art to expressing opinions in a way that doesn't come across as condemnation. And since this series of discussions revolves around the various interpretations of art, it isn't surprising that as a group we see the art of tact differently too. ;-)
But the saving grace here (in my opinion) is that most of us have been here long enough to know that we're all a bunch of opinionated old farts who don't mean anybody any harm. I truly like everybody on the forum, and therefore it isn't hard to read between the lines and make an honest effort to understand what each person is trying to say.. even when the words they choose might not be the best way to say it.
My take-away is that we are all just trying to explain to everybody what drives our decision to be where we are musically today.. or hope to be tomorrow. It should be a given that everybody has made their own choices.
I DO find it interesting and enlightening to hear others say why they DON'T want the same things I want.
I think it is good and healthy for people to be different... and to talk about their reasons in a civil manner. This is an awesome group.. it may seem contentious at times, but for the most part, I'd trust anybody in this group. I don't get the impression anybody here is communicating in bad faith or gunning for anybody else.
I hope 2015 ends up being as interesting and civil as it has been so far.
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. For the record, I’m not a working musician.
I respect your decision along these lines Bob... but it blows my mind that a guy with your multiple talents could keep them under wraps at a time when the genre is EXPLODING with opportunities!
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I put down the idea of the cover band thing, not the people playing it. The concept of "musician vs player" is meant to say that it completes a music person and is an evolutionary step to move from reproducing to creating. That's why I say "musicians write and players copy". That only bothers selected people based on the thickness of their skin. I have been called a hack by a LOT of people, and I don't care. Comes from being fat and learning to not let things bother me.
I only have control over one person on the planet. (And one dog.)
Have you ever put out a CD of your originals? This one in progress is my first "real" CD, not just something I duplicated here at home. This will be in a sleeve, with art work, credits... I am kind of pumped to get it released. 4 songs to go and we get back to work next week finishing the engineering and mastering. Art is done. It's a total rush to know that in a couple more months my music will be available to people. And when I die in 15-18 years, my legacy will be there for the people that have it.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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I respect what you're doing Eddie.
If I had the songwriting gene, I'd be there beside you in a heartbeat.
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Here's another slant on the cover v original song discussion.
Who would you rather listen to, someone who does cover songs well, or someone who does original songs and most of them are not that good, not from a personal perspective but general view of a good section of the audience.
I know I would pick the first option for a night out.
Personally I think that the best way to get some coverage of original (rather than making a cd) is to put them on youtube, and maybe in conjunction with a facebook page to share the songs. Social media is a great way to get coverage of your original songs I think. The way I look at it is, if I don't get many hits then the song isn't really that good.
I don't have a facebook page myself for this purpose but I have seen others do it with a lot of success.
Having a song that people will sing after we are gone is a nice thing to strive for but unfortunately all those cd's with original songs that people make, will be porbably chucked out in the garbage bin by the people who downloaded them or got them.
The truth and reality may hurt us sometimes but we have to face up to it.
Musiclover
Last edited by musiclover; 12/31/14 08:42 AM.
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No dog in this fight: not good enough to copy well or invent out of thin air
BUT what then do you/we call professionals (alive and dead) who sing/play essentially most if not all other peoples songs:
Frank Sinatra
Mchael Buble'
Diana Krall
Tony Bennet
Aaron Neville
...
and other singers
then there are purely, or mostly, instruments players:
Bill Evans
Barney Kessel,
Miles Davis
Joe Pass
Kenny Burrel
Charlie Christian
Wes Montgomery
....
Then there are the folks probably more the topic of this discussion:"rockers" who began and became KNOWN by playing and reworking Dixons and other "unknown" blues writers (e.g., early Led Zeppelin, Stones, Beatles, I even remember more than a few Venture's tunes that were re-worked, etc.)
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 12/31/14 08:45 AM.
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Eddie,
I always wanted to put out a CD of my originals but I never got around to getting the songs recorded. I recorded 18 or 20 originals back in the 80’s on a Tascam Portastudio 424 but they’re definitely not CD quality. About 10-12 years ago I started buying software and hardware to set up my home studio but my wife gave me so much grief every time I picked up the guitar that I just gave up on it. We divorced a few years later, but after a job loss I just gave up on playing because of some pretty severe depression.
I’d like to get back into playing music and writing songs, but I probably won’t do that because of the continuing depression and other health issues. No health insurance means no treatment or medication for either.
So I’ll just remain a cantankerous old fart who sometimes weighs in on music issues on the forum. It’s the only music related outlet I have right now.
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"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Who would you rather listen to, someone who does cover songs well, or someone who does original songs and most of them are not that good, not from a personal perspective but general view of a good section of the audience.
I'll go with the second option every time. I don't drink. I hate being in bars. So no matter how well the band can play copy music, they are doing nothing for me that I can't do at home. If I want to hear "I Love Rock and Roll" (FYI, I NEVER want to hear that insipid song again!) I could stay home and dial up the Joan Jett channel on Pandora. I would not have a beer in front of me just like the bar, and I won't have to listen to 17 conversations going on around me involving people who should be shutting their pie holes and listening to the entertainment. I prefer the songwriting band, no matter how weak the material might be. And I prefer it because they TRY. Look, guys, I was in two of the best cover bands Cleveland has ever known. I understand. But I have since grown musically and want to express my own thoughts. Tell my stories. If I DID have a band to play this music out, I would tell the backstory to every song and engage the crowd that way. Here Goes Nuttin' is about how I have been married 3 times and will NEVER do it again. But "baby for you, ya know I'd do it again. Here goes nuttin'." And "The One That Got Away" is relateable because every one of us has someone in our life who is the one that got away. And so forth. I would MUCH rather hear that than someone playing Brown Eyed Girl. Add to that the fact that every band in town plays the same 45 songs and it gets worse. Flawless copy does not stimulate me at all. Listening to originals, even mediocre originals, is more appealing to me because I may hear something that stimulates thoughts in my mind to write something, or maybe I would meet a writer who writes lyrics well but needs some musical ideas. Or maybe there is a good player who needs better lyrics. I would be happy to join forces and collaborate with them. All about personal tastes and preferences. I find copy bands boring. You may like them. That's great! Somebody needs to support cover bands. It just won't be me. I know a lot of people who are upset with me because I never go hear their bands. And I tell them the same thing when they call me out on it. "Write some songs and I'll be out to hear them." I find it comically ironic that here we are on a forum hosted by a company whose product is a composition tool and there are so many people who refuse to even TRY to write songs. Write a song about your idiot brother in law. Write a song about how your last girlfriend ripped your heart from your chest, threw it on the driveway and ran it over with YOUR truck. And write it exactly the way you'd tell the story to your buddies at the corner bar. Just make it rhyme and fit the cadence of the music. You CAN write songs. You just have to accept that every song is not going to be a gem and that you will write a lot of bad songs before you write good ones. You are a quarterback suffering through rookie year growing pains throwing a lot of interceptions and bad passes. Next season you will be better, and in year 3 you will be great. It took a LONG time for me to accept that everything I wrote was not great. Most of the early stuff was not even good, much less great. But after some years of trying, they are getting better. Once this CD is done, I will revisit the scratchpad stuff and work with them and start the next CD. "Can't do" should not be in anybody's vocabulary. You CAN do. Step one is to fail. I listen back to things I did 3-4 years ago, recording on a Tascam 8 track, with outboard gear.... and I thought it was good then. Now? I hate it. Several of the songs for the next CD will be those old songs redone using inside the box recording. I will have to program the Real Band chord structures because back then I would create, record onto the Tascam, and throw away. (Remember, I thought they were good!) I am actually embarrassed by some of that early stuff. It was truly awful. And I may find that THESE songs on the CD are awful too. That will come from listeners, not me. I had to swallow that bitter reality pill and accept that I am NOT Lennon and MaCartney, or Diane Warren.... But I have to think that John and Paul and Diane wrote some really bad songs early on like everybody else does. My dime.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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I’d like to get back into playing music and writing songs, but I probably won’t do that because of the continuing depression and other health issues. No health insurance means no treatment or medication for either.
I hear and identify with what you're saying, Bob... but I have to think that the sound of applause would have an effect on me that's at least as positive as any prescription antidepressant. I've heard you play, and there would definitely be applause. on a different note: have you ever considered teaching others to play bluegrass instruments? Given the popularity of the genre, especially where you live... I'd guess you could use your knowledge to spread the passion. And don't give it away... what you have is worth some serious compensation
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BUT what then do you/we call professionals (alive and dead) who sing/play essentially most if not all other peoples songs:
Frank Sinatra
Mchael Buble
Diana Krall
Tony Bennett
Aaron Neville
Apples and oranges comparison. These people are not local bar band people. They sing standards (other than Neville) in huge arenas. The discussion is about the bands who play for 80 locals in corner bars, most of whom don't know good from bad. Even The Beatles early albums had a lot of cover. (How many people think Twist And Shout is a Beatles song?) They did Meredith Wilson's 'Til There Was You too! Dizzy Miss Lizzy, Honey Don't, Slow Down, Matchbox.... there is a long list of songs that were covered by The Beatles. Would I call them less that outstanding songwriters because of it? Oh hellz no!! They were one of the best writing teams ever. Everybody does covers at some point. Sinatra did not write nor did he play, but I hold him in the highest regard possible. When I make jokes about my own voice I always say "Does that software have the Sinatra setting?" because The Chairman was the best ever. Apples and oranges.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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About 10-12 years ago I started buying software and hardware to set up my home studio but my wife gave me so much grief every time I picked up the guitar that I just gave up on it. We divorced a few years later, but after a job loss I just gave up on playing because of some pretty severe depression. Given that situation, a wife giving me grief because of my passion, the wife would go LONG before the music would. I’d like to get back into playing music and writing songs, but I probably won’t do that because of the continuing depression and other health issues. No health insurance means no treatment or medication for either.
Let me offer another perspective. If life has thrown you those curveballs, maybe music can be used as a way to get you OUT of the depression. Writing music is the best therapy ever. It's like how bloggers get online and vent, but with a beat and a chord structure. Remember, you are allowed to write for YOU. Tell your stories in song even if you are the only one to hear them. If your handle truly intimates that you can play good bluegrass flatpicking, music needs you. Not that many guys can do that well. You CAN do this, Bob. Real Band is a GREAT tool. Mechanics that learn to use their tools well do the best work. A mechanic is a technician. As is a musician. For 2015, write us a song about your ex wife, be it how she made you feel, or how you felt when you were free of her. Sad, happy, dancing like Snoopy doing his happy dance.... however you felt. Express that in song. It is better than any therapy you will ever get from a shrink. You have to leave that baggage on the platform at some point. Songwriting is a great way to do that. Remember my mantra, songs are just stories set to music. Tell us your stories.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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I hear and identify with what you're saying, Bob... but I have to think that the sound of applause would have an effect on me that's at least as positive as any prescription antidepressant.
If ANYBODY buys my CDs, it will be so satisfying that I would get that serotonin rush! If I move the entire run of 100 I will be ecstatic. (Or as the kids say these days, "estatic".) I understand your point completely!
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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Let me start of by saying that I personally am not truly offended no matter what anyone says. Let me then address this discussion this way.
I like you Sir Eddie, and think in general your a good dude. I enjoy watching you slowly pursue your dreams and goals of writing a full album of material, I also wish you the very best in this path. I also don't think you mean any harm, you are just expressing your personal views, something that is a free right to do.
As far as expressing those views, I have to say that you need to recognize that you do come over as having a denigrating tone at times(as if tone is available in written form) a couple examples as BobbyFlatPicker mentioned suggesting someone is "not a musician" because they like or play or cover or whatever, and it is not your cup of tea. That is okay to share your views, but it is how you say things that gives these perceptions. Or "I think things are stupid that other people don't. Big Time Rasslin', watching guys drive in a circle in really fast cars, ...... But of they enjoy those things, by all means do them. I prefer REAL sports. I prefer drag racing where the mechanical aspect of building those engines is at an elevated level." here is a simple view stated, but look closely at the method of the view, Drag racing is not as stupid to watch than Nascar because it is a REAL Sport! and they have an elevated mechanical engine design. Really so Nascar engines are not designed to ring out 3 times the horsepoer and drive highly designed custom made cars at higher and higher speeds where sometimes at close to 200 mph they are separated by an inch or two. Pretty elevated i might say. Now don't get me wrong, I am not an offended Nascar fan. I never watch toe sport, but some here might, and might think only idiots watch drag racing i mean really 1/4 mile and rebuild, 1/4 mile and rebuild. seems like a lame event to some maybe.
I think that many of us including me can learn to maybe just use a little more thought as to how we express our views, and do so in a way that acknowledges others, and shares our views rather than just calls another's views/endeavors/goals/dreams, whatever as being of lesser value, or worth. Maybe just a comment like i used to play in a cover band, but personally grew tired of that so I chose not to work privately on some original material that is close to my heart. I hope some of you like it whaen it is done, rather than i never do or listen to cover work, cause folks that do that stuff are talent-less hacks that are not real musicians. Hmmm Anyway to all a good day, and especially to Eddie, i wish you well my friend.
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OK, I plan to cut a CD this year, too. Of course it is all home grown, so it won't be the sonic quality that Eddie is talking about. Right now I have 14 songs that clock in around 39 minutes. I really only want 12 songs, but that might be too short! (The first 14 songs at my link down below will be the CD when I fix some more vocals). I am hoping to finish in January, so I can have the slate cleared for the February FAWM. I have written maybe 250 or so songs in various forms -- and I am still not very good at it (ha, ha). What has this got to do with this thread -- really nothing, but I am more on Eddie's side. Given a reasonable choice, I would rather see original music done OK than excellent cover stuff. But good singing and playing is sort of good on its own merits!! Carry on. I plan to go the Kunaki route for CD's -- but you can't do the custom inserts with lyrics if you use them. But they are high quality and cheap and you can do runs of 5 or 10 if you want. Probably put it all on bandcamp and maybe even CD-Baby, but I don't really expect any sales.
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Pat, I’ve got to admit, the applause is good. My favorite show that I’ve ever played was in a restaurant that had started having acoustic acts there every Saturday night. They were having some pretty high end performers like Ricky Skaggs, Jerry Douglas, Sam Bush, Newgrass Revival, Norman Blake, John McEuen, John Hartford, etc. The place was always packed, but that only meant about 200 people. I was surprised when the owner approached me to play there with my duo since he’d never had a local act or unknown performers there before. He’d attended a party where my friend and I were playing and he liked what he heard. The audience was exactly the way I like, … they sat down, shut up, listened attentively and applauded enthusiastically. We played for about 3 hours and the songs were all my originals, with the exception of 3 covers and a couple of fiddle tunes. I told the audience about the inspiration behind each song, cracked jokes and talked to them between sets. People were asking to buy CD’s, but we didn’t have any because we were just a couple of local yokels playing for fun. The owner booked us again after our show for the next opening, which was a couple of months later. Unfortunately, he had to declare bankruptcy before our next gig. I think he went broke hiring some of the big name acts like Ricky Skaggs.  That night was invigorating. The trouble is, there’s not many places around like that.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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Forums66
Topics81,587
Posts734,746
Members38,500
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Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
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