Entering notes lower than C below staff in notation mode?

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What setting do I need to adjust to allow me to enter notes lower than C below the staff in notation mode? Currently, the only way I can achieve this is to enter a C and then edit the note to something lower.

Thanks.

Use the bass clef staff for those notes.

R

Yes, expand to the Grand Staff, for one thing, so there are two staves showing, or change to Bass Clef.

Of course, there are a few times when, on the Grand Staff, I still need to show those notes "down there". One way is to invoke an "8vb" on the chart, but that won't make BB actually play 'em that way, just good for passing out charts to readers.

You've already found the way I do it. (grin)

There may be another way, don't know, as I've never really encountered so many notes "down there" as to make it worth looking for or changing a setting. Typically I only will have a small handful like that from time to time and the RightClick->Edit and use of the note spinner is good enough. One thing I do is when entering those notes, I put 'em in exactly one octave higher. Makes 'em easier to spot and also will play back without weird enharmonics and such before the time they get moved down an octave.

--Mac

I just transpose it up to start so if it's in C I enter it in G. Then transpose back down. I can transpose the easier keys or down 2 or up 2 and C to G or F, gets harder for me if it's in 4 sharps, then I make the wife do it.

So she says, just read it up a 9th, its not that hard, the trombone players are in bass clef and ...never mind...

Our brass band went out after rehearsal Wed. Two trombone players stuck their coats on high chairs and sat on them. The bar was packed due to the Olympic hockey game. Only a trombone player would sit on a high chair. I think we got a picture.....

Being very much a treble-clef sort of person, I enter those notes an octave up, and drag them down.

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Being very much a treble-clef sort of person, I enter those notes an octave up, and drag them down.

Me too. I'm bass clef challenged. I like the idea of putting everything in 8va then adjusting. Is there any programming reason why biab doesn't allow direct entry of notes below c4 using the treble-clef scale? In any case, I got my answer... sort of

. thanks to all

Bob aka jazzwombat

If you carefully use white out you can eliminate the top line on the bass clef and draw a new one on the bottom.

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Is there any programming reason why biab doesn't allow direct entry of notes below c4 using the treble-clef scale?

No programming reasons. Maybe a notational one. It's an arbitrary thing, and it's adjustable. Set your clef-split point to C5 instead of C4 (in the Notation Options). Then everything works more as you seem to to think it should. Bass clef notes go into the bass clef and click into place normally.

With the "Clefs split at" point set at C4, then the first octave of notes below Middle C appear on leger lines -- probably for horn players who can't remember those nasty old ACEG and GBDF mnemonics.

Edited to correct the proposed clefs setpoint to C5, as I originally meant.

There's no reason you can't set that point to A4 or anything else that suits your purpose. Bear in mind that if your printout is only a treble clef, you won't get any note printed that is written on the bass clef. But it's possible to change the split-point back again in the Print Options just before you print the leadsheet -- to correct that if it's giving trouble.

Dissing horn players? We all can play the F# below the staff lines. All 3 valves down. Most of us (And I'm a newbie at 60) can even read the C above the staff.

Just don't put the piece in concert A, that's one too many sharps for John to play. The limit is 4 but 3 is better and flats are easier on the horn for some reason. Lots of lipping notes in sharps. Well even in F. but just use the 3rd valve and forget about the first 2.

For those who don't believe me you might be able to hear it. Play a piece in F and use the 3rd valve for E and A. It's more in turn.

Pithy-ag-r-us.

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Dissing horn players?

Well, somebody's got to do it, John. C'mon.

I do sympathize about the sharps, though. Key of B should be unlawful. Billy Strayhorn never saw a black key he didn't like, but at least he wrote them as flats.

We horn players certainly deserve to be dissed sometimes.

If we want to play with guitarists, though, we should be able to play in keys with lots of sharps!

John has a great point that a non-brass player may not know: with only three valves on most trumpets and other horns, one might think there is only one way to finger a given note, but some notes have alternate fingerings that are more in tune in some keys. And a famous trumpet player, Charlie Shavers, was reported to have said, "Anything above a high C is played Open.". I use standard fingering up to G over high C, and above that, I don't care because I will never go there in mixed company. Too much pain and swearing, and maybe a trip to the emergency room.

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We horn players certainly deserve to be dissed sometimes.

Only as an affectionate joke, though. You guys are damned admirable, to be able to do that much beauty with nothing but three or four valves and a Bronx cheer.

I play baritone so I'm mellow. I personally admire the Maynard Ferguson range, but won't listen to it. Sounds like a bad noise. Same goes for the dudes who play way too high on a horn. Seems like a competitive thing. Look at me. I prefer mellow, shaped tone, and having the thing in tune, vrs the ability to shatter glass a block away.

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We horn players certainly deserve to be dissed sometimes.

Only as an affectionate joke, though. You guys are damned admirable, to be able to do that much beauty with nothing but three or four valves and a Bronx cheer.

Thanks! I knew you were kidding...

Lew Soloff's patented D above high C with open valves, Matt...

Think the D instead of the C and overblow like crazy.

Wotta sound.

--Mac

Yup, but it's flat on my Calicchio. First valve D is better. Don't know why.

Longer tubing path has been used in some horn designs in an attempt to correct "other" intonation issues.

Get an older medium bore or smallbore horn for the Soloff tricks. I recently found an Olds Silversonic in smallbore. I think it outscreeches the old prewar Bach Strad with reversed leadpipe and star bell. Or maybe its just a new friend, time will tell. That thick silver bell doesn't vibrate and thus more energy is available for the soundwave.

--Mac

Good evening,
I have a similar question.
I have a score in pdf format that I want to enter in BIAB. The left hand notes written oin the bass stave encroach into notes above middle C and notes in the right hand go below middle C at times. In the first 3 bars the right hand plays notes b below middle C and the left hand plays notes up to e above middle C.
When I try to enter these notes of course they enter into the wrong stave and so do not indicate left and right hand.
Does anyone know how to overcome this? Help
I do have a jpg I can post to show this clearly
Thanks

Hi Madsy,

Notation mode uses the 'grand stave' approach for entering music. That is, when notes are above middle C, they will be written on the treble and if they are below middle C they will be written on the bass clef.

It's possible to change the point in the staff that this split occurs but it is limited. The setting can be found under Notation Mode options. It's called "Clefts split at" and there is a "C4" entered. This is the default. If you change it to F4, F3, G4, etc., you'll see the impact it has. I suspect that this is not what you are after.

Note: The C4, F3, etc., is a midi indentification for notes. C4 = middle C, C5 = one octave above middle C, C3 = one octave below middle C. G4 = the G above middle C, etc.

Can you outline what you are hoping to achieve by entering the piano score? I might have some ideas that will help once I know what you'd like to accomplish.

Regards,
Noel.

my latest song : This Road

Thanks Noel96,
I was hoping to create the score and then transpose down to C. It is written in D. While I am ok with reading music - slowly, I usually play by ear. If I can enter the score into BIAB I can listen and reproduce it on my piano. And also have the music score in a key I like

.
Also get some BIAB skills at the same time and understand the limitations.
As I said I can create a JPG of a bit of the score to show why this is difficult with the left hand playing above C4 and the right straying down below C4.
Cheers

Madsy,

Thanks for the added information. I now have a clearer picture in mind as to what you want to achieve.

Using BIAB as music-scoring software is limited. The program is designed to create leadsheets mostly (melody line and chord symbols) and when doing this, it does a great job.

For notating piano scores, MuseScore is much better software. I use it regularly. It's free and can be found at the link below. It will easily do the scoring and the transposing you require.

https://musescore.org/

There are a number of Youtube clips on how to use MuseScore. Once you get the hang of it, it's very straightforward.

It's also possible to export a MuseScore file as XML or MIDI and then load it into BIAB.

As always, when installing Freeware or Open Source programs, choose the 'manual' install option and de-select any third party software such as search engines or antivirus trial software that sometimes accompany freeware.

Regards,
Noel

my latest song : This Road

Noel96.
Thankyou so much for your help. I'll look into Musescore.
Cheers

Hi Noel96.
I tried the program you suggested - Musescore. Excellent. It does just what is wanted.
There is a suggestion that one can import a PDF file and use it but it appears to be only useable from the Musescore website.
Does any one have experience with Audiveris.
Cheers