I have just upgraded to 2024 Audiophile and we have run into some odd issues:

- sometimes a particular song will not advance the chorus as it plays and therefore never ends. The display will show 1 - 32 x 1/4 and never advance to 1 - 32 x 2/4, etc. Shutting down and restarting usually fixes it. Also doesn't always happen.

- making changes to Chord settings, for example, and re-rendering will result in dead drums for some section of the song - half maybe. Saving the changes and restarting BIAB solves the problem. This is a huge hassle editing parts and having to restart to hear the results.

- last night one song, at the end spurted out a Saw wave of noise - quite loud and startling. Again, restarting BIAB, and replaying the song was fine.

- one song, NOW, has no count-in. It worked fine in the past. The Style used has a Loop, rather than a Drum part. If I MUTE the Loop, then I hear the Count-in, otherwise no count-in.

- still having issues with Count-in being quiet on the first two counts

- still have the bug where any changes to the Song Memo will crash on Save if the Memo is left open.

The noise and the missing drums are making me consider rolling back to 2023 as we wasted a huge amount of time last night fighting with these issues.

"The 2024 new "Multi Track View" feature is"...
It need serious improvements, absolutely, but it allows you to "partial regenerate" of all tracks in a single screen. This is how I use it and it saves me a lot of time.

How can it save you time when you can't even select a region of a full bar precisely?

At least in the Audio Edit Window or ACW Window, you can snap to 16th notes. Much easier to select a full bar to regen.

I don't think PG will do much to improve the MTV snap feature this year.

It's dead on arrival. Don't waste your time on it. Go back to ACW.

MV, just if for some reason it doesn't work for you personally, doesn't mean it doesn't work for others. Ok, I am not a perfectionist, but it works for me:


P.S. Do I want whole TV to be more advanced? Absolutely! But I do find it very useful even in the infant state it is now.

+1

MusicVillian,

Have you update your BIAB to build 1108? I notice in another thread that you were running 1102, which is the 2024 release build. There have been a lot of changes and adjustments to BIAB since 1102. If you haven't updated to 1108, I encourage you to think seriously about it.

You can download the update and read all about what has changed between 1102 and 1108 at the below URL.

https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1108

Regards,
--Noel

Bullmoon,

In BIAB and under "Help >> About Band In A Box", check to see if you have the latest update installed. If not, I encourage you to go to the URL below, download it and install it.

https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1108

Regards,
--Noel

Misha and Noel, although I disagree with you, I have to give you that the video was pretty good in explaining things.

Let me clarify. In MTV, the snap is indeed snapping, you are right about that. But the resolution is too high, I believe it's 1/64th note (1/16th of a beat), in other words, if you zoom out a little more on the track, you will start to make mistakes by not snapping perfectly on the bar line, and therefore getting a faulty regen.

On the other side, if you try to snap in ACW or AEW, it is a much lower resolution, which is 16th note. You are less likely to make selection mistakes.

BiaB's piano roll gives you the option to choose snapping resolutions. It will probably take years for PG to implement this function to AEW and MTV.

Also, from your video, it was quite painful to make an accurate selection directly on the tracks in the lower part of the screen. Don't you agree? You either have to scroll the lower tracks up closer to the top snapping ruler, or you have to first make a selection on the top track then click to switch that selection to a lower track.

Either way, the selection is counter-productive in MTV. You see what I'm saying here?

Unless you have a better way, MTV's bar selection is a pain in the anal compare to ACW and AEW.

M.Villain. I am not in pain

Resolution is good enough for me. I think it's a fair argument to request resolution adjustment from 1/4 to 1/64 in that view and so it follows globally (regardless of view, with exception of chord view)
Yes, vertical cursor is needed. I am hoping PGM will add this as #1 thing to TV. In any case, T.View is very useful for my stuff. It's better to have it, than not to have it. I am sure it will improve over time.

P.S. If you want to support full vertical cursor, here is a thread with that request:
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=792822#Post792822

Pay attention to 00:31 of this video.

How can you be sure your selection on the Guitar 1 track was perfectly aligned to the 1st and the 11th bar line?

It looks like you overselected on the leftside (bar 1) and also on the right side (bar 11), doesn't it?

This video just proves MTC is not a superior, but an inferior tool compare to AEW in terms of partial regen.

This was a sloppy video just to prove the concept. I wasn't doing zooming or any kind of precision. Yes, rockets are faster than planes. The point is, you don't like it = you don't use it. How is this new feature taking away from you?
You got 2024 content, generations that are ~3-5 times faster than before, with near instant placement of already generated tracks to your project, you got non-modal MTP Library with most of PGM content at your finger tips in a single place. Software for the most part is stable, considering it had been only few short weeks since release. You get what you get and you don't get upset, and if you are, find a pacifier... In my view it was one of the best releases. The benefits of 2024 overpower underdeveloped features. I only started to dig through new material and happy to see a few special artists that I like on new RTs.

I see all these issues and missing features also but this is a massive leap to have the Tracks view and Riff Edit they will be adding all the other things to it and polishing it up, they just ran out of time that's all.

Updated and I am retesting these issues. A few persist - others might take a while to come up again. I'll update the post with whatever I find.

Here is some To Do's for Tracks view (Chord entry will be on beats no typing commas):

You and I have disagreed a fair bit on this update. I think this is a lot to do with it. You are clearly a "glass half full" type of person. I'm the opposite

I agree with your first point, "if you don't like it, don't use it". That's fair enough, but for me, I don't like what they have done to the things I have to use. I despise unnecessary mouse clicks and buried options, It slows me down. For me personally, this is one of the worst updates.

Some of the reasons that have caused me to be negative is that so much is either done badly, buggy or didn't work at all. Within the first 10 minutes of trying out the update I spent more time saying "WTF" than I did trying to enjoy the new features - right or wrong, this just starts me out on a negative attitude towards it all.

For example, within the first few minutes of using the software I discovered that partial drum regen doesn't work, things that I use often are now buried deeper than they were before, play using chordsheet doesn't work, snap in the MTV doesn't work, I'm sorry but 64th option should not be called snap. I'd have been less annoyed if there was no snap option at all. That's just a few examples but there were more than that, all within the first ten minutes.

When the first few things you try out have all gone backwards or don't even do something that's being sold as a new feature, I just end up negative. Yes of course there are some positives, e.g, faster builds but I have all the good features clouded by my initial first impression which was all bad.

Hopefully after some more updates I will have a better outlook but I'm not feeling very positive about any of it because the fact only a minority of us are moaning about these things, they will probably be seen as unimportant.

Lee,
"I despise unnecessary mouse clicks and buried options, It slows me down. "

I can totally see you sitting and clicking that magic button that got buried all day long

Regeneration of whole styles, track, songs, partial etc., is times faster now. Time it took before, starring point blank on the screen, waiting, you could of done 100 clicks. I rather do couple of extra clicks than, wait for the program to churn forever. That slowed me down. It made me feel like it's 1995 all over again and I am waiting for windows to load. To complete each project, will take me hours less now. I am strictly talking about generations time.

Your buddy Moultipass had a concrete suggestion, to have a "Load Demo" button on the top. That is a valid specific item and I am certain it will get support. I don't use it, but it was articulated well and I will vote for that. You had suggestion to keep MTP on the top. (beats me why, but ok, lets assume that is something important) How much time you spent writing "me me me hates" instead of doing couple of Print Screens with your specific issues, explaining them in a paragraph or two and posting them up for discussion? PGM reads feedback / wishlist, and while there are no guarantees that something will eventuate, some things do. I honestly believe that is a better way instead of bashing overall progress made.

"I'd have been less annoyed if there was no snap option at all." - don't press that "snap" button and you will be OK.
"I discovered that partial drum regen doesn't work" - Was this feature advertised for drums? I honestly don't know. If it was, I would be upset too.

Rustyfork, I dare you making another video by clicking that green button on the right hand side of the cog wheel and starting the "phrase editing mode".

Because it is so messed up!

I was a happy 2023 customer and had absolutely zero motivation to update to 2024, until I noticed this new MTV feature. I was hyped with this new "Phrase Editing Mode".

I have a dream, that I can create an exact 4 bar long phrase block, then do the partial regen inside this block, once the block is perfect, I can then copy this block to other parts of the song where the same chords occur.

In other words, instead of partial regen the full song, I can simply partial regen a few phrase blocks only, then copy these regened blocks to different locations of the song, job is done, would save tremendous amount of time.

I was wrong. I can't create phrase blocks like that, I can't regen a bar inside a block like that. I can't precisely copy blocks like that.

That's why I was pissed off with the MTV, because it destroyed my dream!

That is the main problem with timelines. Instead pushing out a product that isn't finished why not wait until it is polished a bit more: I ran into the same problem while working in research. PGM has done this with virtually every new add-on leaving us users as the final beta testers.

On the plus side PGM does try to patch things as quickly as they can so I will give them credit there.
YMMV

MusicPillow,
"I was a happy 2023 customer"
That's not how I remember it from your posts.

"because it destroyed my dream"
That's funny.

TV is not finished in my view. I've shown you how I use it in existing state.

Hi Mario,

I think the public will always be the final testers (gamma testers?) for software in general. There are millions of different computers in the world with a huge variation in operating systems, software, hardware, processing power and users' ability.. By comparison, PG Music's range of machines and users during beta testing is significantly less. As I see it, beta testing arrives at a product that is stable enough to be released. When that release encounters the world with all its millions of possibilities, new issues are bound to be discovered. I have never once had a piece of software from any company that has not been updated because new issues were discovered as some point in time.

Just my couple of pennies worth of thoughts

I hope 2024 is treating you and your family well!
--Noel.

Though the problem with that is the high risk of the project just running on and on.

One of the hardest parts of software development is ensuring that all realistic .... indeed preferable all feasible ... modes of use are tested and proven. In practice, for much software, to achieve that is likely impossible. With the best will in the World, there are so many user-paths through BIAB, never mind execution and data paths, that the permutations for possible errors will be huge.

The trick (miracle, perhaps?) is to attempt enough that there is sufficient time to give things a good test and polish, without either over-running or under-demanding so people get too lassaiz-faire. PGM's business model is predicated on releasing new features in time for Christmas. A new version that does little more than last year's release, but works more reliably and robustly, doesn't really appear to fit that business model.


Hmmm ... the following reads like an elevator pitch for a job, but I'm definitely not looking for a job.

The types of software I design(ed) were quite different to BIAB, so I'm very wary of making comparisons. Doing so could be unfair on either PGM or on myself. Mine was mostly embedded real-time, PGM's is a quite different environment, though still pretty much real-time. When designing, whether at the outset or later when making significant changes, my main initial focus would be to get the data right for the application. I would often spend many hours making sure that it made proper sense, would support the planned behaviour and covered all the planned/expected options and also those that seem likely to appear in the near to medium future. It would include placeholders for things yet to be. The other thing I do is try to compartmentalise data and its associated behaviours. I actually learned that well, rather by fluke, as systems on which worked and later on which I did the main concept, hardware and software architecture, used distributed processors such that each module received combined action and data messages, and was compelled to handle everything locally. In reality this was a kind of "object oriented" environment, even though the term was still a bit esoteric, C++ was still being thought about and Java still a couple of decades away. That compartmentalisation has informed much of my work ever since. If I want data manipulated, then I send a message to the appropriate manipulator saying which data and what manipulation. That principle can also fit nicely with multiple CPU cores.

I've already agreed the speed is better. That doesn't justify the need for extra mouse clicks, just because the overall regen is quicker.


Most people here are over the moon with non modal out of jail windows. So am I. But when those windows are forced on top, covering the main Window, then they require as much open and closing as the previous pickers. Where's the advantage? If everyone used two monitors the argument might be valid. What am I missing here? A simple toggle option for always on top is simple and affects nobody negatively.


You can't seem to agree to disagree. I see most of this update as a step backwards in usability. Improving functionality at the cost of usability, isn't an overall improvement IMO.


It's an utterly pointless button, so why have it at all. I thought you was all about cleaning things up.

Yes, it's exactly what happened. Also the main reason I went for the update. Thankfully seems to have been fixed in 1108.

Like I said, if everything wasn't so awkward, unfinished and buggy, I might have had a better outlook on it. Most of my experience has been negative. That may just be coincidental that all the functions I use happen to be the ones most affected. Either way, I've had a very negative experience with the update.

I Think the problem with the stuff I post is it's so far ahead and down the track to give way more control of creativity, from where most users are now BUT will be there in the future.
This is why I spent so much time and effort with Reaper showing how Biab and the BBPlugin can work way better.
All this stuff can NOW be done in Reaper so professionally and easily with the BBPlugin ver 6
or if you only use Biab Open SGU in Reaper will instantly transfer tracks to Reaper and update any sections anywhere.
Allowing over 255 bar limit.
Fit to any varying tempo map.
You can have so many Tabs with projects in and copy from one to the other.
You can create up so many different project Tabs using your chords in so many different Styles instantly, no hours of rendering and dragging.
Being able to name the RT RD track sections that you can see where instruments change.
Being able to write the chord names to the track sections.
Being able to instantly change from FX <> Direct Input keeping the same riffs.
Convert a Stereo drum track into Stems instantly.
Having Video RealTrack/Drums.
You know what, I think I can even load a VST3 in Reaper.
I don't have to wait years for things that might be implemented as I can look in Reapack for a script, ask in the forum for one or make one myself and it's done that very day.

It could take years for the penny to drop or it can happen today !

FWIW, I’m in the camp with RustySpoon and Mario that say to cut PGMusic a bit of slack. To those that “just want it done now and done right” you should know that the development of complex software is no walk in the park.

Circa 2006 my company was awarded a “small” (several $million) exploratory contract to develop the flight control system for a new presidential helicopter, commonly known as Marine One. Although I wasn’t part of the software team per-se, I did need to interface with that department on a regular basis to do my job and would empathize with the challenges they faced.

A single flight control computer is a complex beast in it’s own right; the system we worked on contained four. Computer A would monitor its own health and the health of the other 3. Likewise Computer B would monitor its own health and that of the other 3, and so on. Every major clock cycle they would all vote (and never disagree) as to who was most healthy; and control of the aircraft would be automatically given to that computer. This is called quad-redundancy and is extremely complex to design and troubleshoot. So complex, that specialized software needed to be developed to produce the test matrices and to analyze the resulting fault logs. The test software would run 24/7/365.

I’m not saying that BiaB is as complex as the above described system and I have no idea whether PGMusic uses test software versus human-only beta testers. If human testers, then perhaps they could consider borrowing testing methods from other domains, such as aerospace.

I’m just offering my 2 pennies in the hope this could be useful to someone in the testing or QC departments. Rather than simply complain about this or that disappointment, the spirit should be to offer ideas to help PGMusic remain competitive in their chosen business domain. With the advent of AI, the competition is likely to increase.

Software testing is indeed a “thorny bush”, and let’s remember that a big part of the software design process is to not break existing features (that work well) when new features are incorporated.

Let’s cut them some slack.

Noel and Gordon, I agree about the fact that you can't release a project that is perfect, as that will never happen. I also agree about the multiple PC configurations and various workflows that us users have. However with the first release of the VST and with this current release it appears to me that a little more work could have been done. Having all of the tracks show in the track view, the track view not have a full timeline cursor, having problems with loop points, the multpicker not having everything the other pickers have, etc sound like major problems to me. I believe that "got to get it out prior to Christmas" timeline was the culprit. Or maybe the old code is the problem? Don't know.

But again I think PGM will correct said problems and as I said before I give them credit for that.

Most have been official requested including a few more.

I agree all snap should be the same as Piano view where you can set the resolution and will make that request.

Already requested,
- Cursor: Full Play head.
- Cursor: Global to all views and floating windows
- Snap: setting being global to all views
- Loop: Global, toggle on/off, settable while in play
- Zoom and Scroll Global on all views (same keys)

You were correct earlier when saying they ran out of time (must release in Holidays), as PGM has a lot more planned form the Track view.

First things first a cursor position global, play head cursor and improved snapping.

If PG Music wants to give people a boxing sale, they can do so in the new year as well. There is no need to rush the release.

However, releasing a half finished product, will severely harm PG's sales.

Take this MTV as an example, how many first time customers would be scared off, and never want to consider Band-in-a-Box again, when they watch the new feature video on YouTube and realize MTV is so difficult to use.

Yes, PG Music will probably release tons of update patches in the new year. Doesn't matter. The potential customers are gone already, and will not know the patches.

I have never seen a single young person ever talks about Band-in-a-Box on YouTube. Guess there must have been a reason.

I have really pushed PG a lot for these Big changes, and I have pushed PG for an open Beta Testing, this is the open Beta testing
The main thing is you can still use the old pickers and you can still use the Audio Edit window without touching the Tracks or MutiPicker windows. OR just use Reaper with Biab/Plugin and have total control of everything. I would rather have it NOW as it is and give development feedback on it and guide it to what users want than wait another year.

whether bb new tview or rb tview i have a dream too...
which is to do all my song creation work in ONE VIEW.
ie bb tv or rb tv....cos i get fed up using multiple music apps.

do i have criticisms ? sure. do i sometimes get frustrated ?
sure...but that applies to lots of software.
can perfection ever be reached ? i doubt it cos haveing worked in tech on everything from new systems costing tens of millions down to minor upgrades i suggest that developers are human too...
ie... they make mistakes.

but what other game in town is there other than bb/rb...?
i see nothing that comes even close...thus a reason i get frustrated sometimes cos looking at new bb tv and existing rb tv i see so much potential and i thus dream.

but ive become more sanguine cos even with flaws i can still use pg products to do songs.
hopefully 2024 bugs will be fixed and all our dreams realised.

if anyone thinks they can do better take a few courses in c++ and assembler and the win api sets and haveing done such i would respectfully suggest one will realise how remarkable it is that pg have brought their music apps this far.

all of us lets keep postive, and adopt a half glass full aspect and help pg make their products the best they can be.
now im gonna go and dream over a cuppa tea...lol.

happy new year to all.

om

We do agree on that and I think it applies to nearly every release for which I've been a customer.

Our main difference, I think, is that you think they should have delayed release while they polished better and I think they should have tried to do a little less, giving them more of their allocated time to do the polish and still release to schedule.

I do like what I've seen of the changes and I think BIAB is progressing in a good direction. But I do also worry that we may still be seeing patches in a few months time. I have not yet forgotten or forgiven the year when I spent much more time trying to accurately report bugs and how they occurred, than I did actually trying to use BIAB. I felt then like perhaps I should have been paid as a tester, not charged for the product. That's not a good feeling.

I agree with that. Either add a lot of stuff and delay the release or do a little less and release a more polished product. I liked Musocity's idea of an open beta. After the regular beta testers maybe PGM should ask a few veteran and/or power users to further test the product. I don't know if that would work or not.


I agree. I am not a power user and in fact I usually get out of BiaB ASAP. I think with this release I will be able to spend more time in BiaB, however that will depend on my frustration level.

I used to "Beta Test" but it was just a mad rush for a few days, there was no way you could try things out and give development feedback on things. The last time I was in it I said about jail windows that they restrict you too much but it didn't get implemented until yet another year. I would prefer a back n forth approach where you can give feedback and ideas that are then implemented without waiting a year at a time. The more feedback that is given by users the better. PG don't always get things right if it's just left up to them, you need the constant feedback > development, not a year in between.

From a young person's perspective.

You are on the stage of American Got Talent, you sing a song. You didn't prepare very well, and you are out of tune. The judges shut you down, ask you to leave. Do you think you can ask the judges which part of the song you didn't do well, so you can receive some feedback, get a second chance, and sing again?

These days, young musicians are busy, and they have hundreds of VSTs and music libraries to choose from. PG released this MTV thing, with no bar grid snapping, no volume automation. Do you really think these young producers will be patient enough to come to this forum leaving some suggestions and waiting for patches?

No, they will move on, and forget about this software forever.

Unfortunately, that's life. You don't get a second chance from Simon Cowell.

Young people have DAWs, Biab is very complex and has a steep learning curve, the BBPlugin is simple and now instant in Reaper.
The BBPlugin Standalone will be the same way soon when they implement the instant play, this is the way for younger users, simple, quick and basic. The BBPlugin Standalone is not a nightmare to learn. I'm putting my money on it being the way forward. Is EZDrummer/Bass/Keys popular ? the BBPlugin is EZBB.

MV, apparently you think that you are the definitive voice for all "young" producers. A claim that I don't accept just like I can't accept anyone else claiming that they are the definitive voice for all "old" producers. But ignoring this for the moment, I am curious about something.

Where specifically do you see these "young" producers flocking to as they "forget about this software forever"?
My understanding is that currently, BiaB is king of the mountain when it comes to computer-assisted music accompaniment and backing track production.

Kiddos mainly like Hip, EDM, Rap and similar genres. There are many software/hardware options for that type of music. Very few adoptive, non "loopy", performance oriented options out there for your traditional Rock, Pop, Blues, Country, R&B, Jazz, Folk and anything around that. Needless to say, core of BIAB users are about the genres it represents most.

BiaB indeed is the king, in my opinion. The only problem is, young producers don't care about it.

You can go to YouTube, find a young YouTuber, talking about Band-in-a-Box. I doubt you can find a single person.

To answer your question, most of young musicians spend their time on less confusing software such has Native Instruments collections, Ujam collections, AI based composing tools, etc.

I wish more young people could start considering using BiaB, but it doesn't seem to happen.

OK, this really gave be a good laugh (gallows humor perhaps?) And I admit, I'm not a part of the 20 something crowd but here are 3 points.

1. Let's not confuse non-participation in this forum by musically-minded 20 somethings with their non-interest in BiaB. What 20 something has the time to debate the pros and cons of any piece of software all day long in a forum? They're too busy making babies, taking care of babies, pleasing their bosses and generally trying to survive in whatever economy they happen to reside in. Or maybe they're still struggling to move off their parent's couch, make it thru college or navigate the dating scene. Point being is that they're busy with life. Retired folks have time on they're hands.

2. My understanding is Taylor Swift is the biggest act on the music scene today. And I just listened to my first TS song (see below). Actually I only made it halfway thru. I don't see why a young (or any aged) producer couldn't use BiaB to arrange songs in the TS genre.

3. Based on country music award events, Willie Nelson birthday bashes and similar that I have seen, there's a healthy amount of young folk in the audience. And I'd guess that most would say they like the Beatles. Quality is quality, capability is capability and BiaB has much capability.

Musocity, thanks but I'm not sure what you are doing there, is that using AHK?
Also, I don't see the advantage if you are still clicking on it, or have you assigned your own shortcut?

Didn't get the full picture:

Yes, it is a big generalization/opinion/understanding and I am certainly not aware of all the competing products out there. When I say "king of the mountain" part of that includes the high quality RTs, the breadth of styles available and the fact that it is chord-based. I'm slowly becoming aware of "loop software" and even some AI assisted programs but although some of these programs do sound good to my ears, many don't have the chord basis that BiaB has.

I do agree that there is a (steep?) learning curve with BiaB and it's a bit clunky/dated. Because of that I'm only using a fraction of what it can do. But being relatively new to music, that fraction is plenty good for me; so all is well. Moreover, I learned from you early on to "get out of BiaB as soon as you can" and do volume automation and other post-processing in your DAW. Early on I had massive problems with RealBand.

Are you aware of other programs that you would put in the same category as BiaB?

My limited understanding of MIDI is that you're moving rectangles around on your screen or capturing info from a connected controller that is physically played. Neither of these approaches necessarily captures a complete chord progression of an intro, verse, chorus, etc. BiaB does capture the progression in an intuitive spreadsheet-like grid, which is powerful. Even this guy says that BiaB is probably the "most capable program on the market".

Much of this is personal and everyone has their own workflow and is somewhere on their musical journey. Young people are very tech-savvy and could figure out BiaB. I wonder how many college-level music schools promote BiaB vs other software.

There are a number of applications that do BIAB-like things, but I think none do all the things BIAB does.

Ones I use sometimes are iRealPro, JJazzLab and Impro-Visor. I'm pretty confident there are others. These three are all intended for practice and/or learning, rather than also doing smarter things. There are pros and cons.

Edit: iRealPro is tablet App that I can use just about anywhere, like at rehearsals or on my boat.
The other two both run on Linux, which is quite important to me, though Impro-Visor has an odd quirk with mouse-cursors on my Linux system. It seems to be a Java-related oddity.

Thanks Gordon, I am unfamiliar with the programs you list.
Just for grins I searched on JJazzLab and lo and behold the same guy did a mini review.

You're also confirming my "king of the mountain" sentiment when you say ". . . but I think none do all the things BIAB does".
I'm even more convinced that we've hitched our wagons to the best tractor
My main concern is that PGMusic stays at least 3 steps ahead of their rivals. The future is sure to bring increased competitive pressures.

Talk about a hi-jack - I posted a couple of issues wondering if others had seen them or if maybe my system needs a refresh. The ensuing discussion, save one reasonable response, is a ridiculous rant fest completely unrelated.

Bullmoon,
Sorry. I tried to delete my posts, but system says no no.

Hi Bullmoon,

Thanks for pointing that out, yes I agree many of the posts are completely off topic.

I can duplicate the bug with saving a song while the song memo is open. However, the other issues I wasn't able to reproduce yet. It may have to do with some specific audio driver settings, and/or specific settings in your song files. It would most likely not be specific to the 'Audiophile version'. What audio driver type do you have selected? Options are WAS, MME, or ASIO. WAS is the default.

I think the best way forward is:

A) There is a build 1109. It is still in pre-release testing, but you could download it using the following link:
https://update.pgmusic.com/support/patch/bb2024_win_update_build1109.exe

B) If you continue to have the problems, post a link to a song file, or send it to support@pgmusic.com referencing this forum thread, Attn Andrew. Ideally a frozen song file.

You could either follow-up with more info in this thread, or start a new thread.

Everyone else, please start a new thread if you are posting about something different from the OP's question.

Sorry for contributing to the thread creep.
It looked to me that this issue was no longer alive.