I recently purchased Band-in-a-Box UltraPAK Upgrade 2024 for Windows.
I have BIAB 2021 64-bit installed.

I'm sure there are many ways to do the installation.
I have been quite consistent over the years in doing minimal installations.
There are two reasons for this. The first being I don't have a lot of disk space (main hard drive)
and am trying to conserve as much of it as possible.
The second is that I only ever use a small portion of BIAB's components.
I only use the Jazz styles and the Real Drums/Bass parts mostly. Occasionally I'll add some Real piano
parts.

Given this info, what do you think would be the best way to get my UltraPAK 2024 up and running?
TIA.

I would install only the main BiaB program and if you use them the Plogue sforzando and Synthmaster Player onto your hard drive and put everything else on an external HD. If you have an USB HD that came with BiaB you can use that.

Assuming you are comfortable copying files, you could do what I do. I have two machines, a production machine that has everything, but also a backup machine in another location. Onto that backup machine, each year I copy only the new RealTrack folders that I know I will use. Just omitting almost all of the guitars alone saves over half the space.

I use a file manager that sorts folders by date, so it’s easy to review the newest RealTracks by instrument and date.

Thanks Matt for your reply. I'm not sure I understand what you are doing exactly.
It seems you install everything on your 'production machine'. What is the purpose of the backup machine?
I do have a second computer that I could install stuff on, if necessary, but with it I also keep installations to a minimum because of limited disk space.

Yes this is what I usually do. But when I install, will BIAB see my previous installation and just overwrite files it needs to? My BIAB installation won't get unnecessarily cluttered (ie. keep piling up more and more files it doesn't need anymore?).

Also, I'll still be able to selectively install just the Real Tracks I want?

The backup machine is at a summer cabin in another location. The purpose of this machine is to be able to compose wherever I am. I’m simply being frugal by keeping a machine with limited storage for a bit longer. The other purpose is quick access to any of my data files. All my data, including my BIAB songs, is always in at least four places: my production machine, my backup machine, my laptop, and a traveling SSD drive in my suitcase.

If I need a particular RealTrack, I just copy it over from my other portable backup drive that has all the RealTracks. I can also just plug that in and change the location of RealTracks in Preferences, RealTracks.

All files are copied manually. I started building my own PCs in 1983 and was teaching computer science quite a few years before that.

OK thanks Matt I understand what you are doing now.

I have a few more questions.
With my current minimal installation, when I try out styles and also when I select many for my songs, I often get 'error messages' notifying me of things that are missing.

I assume that the styles expects to see all of the required instruments it needs to play the style correctly.
Is there an easy way to get around this?
Could I somehow set up BIAB so that when I am auditioning styles I can plug in a USB drive and have it look for the styles from there?
Then when I have found a good style (with its Real Tracks) I can copy the required tracks onto my main drive (somewhere) and have the style load without any complaints?

If I'm understanding correctly, you have the Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK SSD and don't have much space on your computer's HD. My suggestion is that you just do a minimal installation (The first setup option to install plugins, fonts, etc.), and then just run Band-in-a-Box directly from the external drive. If you wanted to keep a backup of the original drive as shipped, you can copy the entire contents from that drive to another external drive (if you have one from a previous BB purchase, you could use that one for example).


If your computer is online, you can audition anything (Styles, RealTracks, etc.) using the pre-made audio demos, even if you don't have any RealTracks installed. For example, if you are in the StylePicker and double-click on a style, that will play the online demo. This will not work if you are wanting it to play your chord sheet. I.E. there is an option 'double-click plays chordsheet' - that requires the program to generate music so it will give you error messages.

OK this is the reason I made my initial post.
I am ready to do a minimal installation.

I clicked on setup.exe.

The first screen had a drop down list with three choices:
Normal Installation
Custom Installation
Full Installation

Custom Installation seems like the logical choice for me right?

There are five (5) checkboxes available with Custom Installation:
1. BIAB + Realband, DAW plugins, RealTrack files, Real Drums, Super Tracks, Artist Perf., other BIAB addons.
2. Hi-Q inst. for Sforzando
3. Playable Realtracks Set 1 for Sforzando
4. Playable Realtracks Set 2 for Sforzando
5. Playable Realtracks Set 3 for Sforzando

So right away it's not looking good. I didn't go beyond this screen.
For 1. I don't want all the RealTrack and Real Drums files installed and I don't know what the other files are for?
For 2. I don't know what it is talking about.
For 3. I don't know if I need/want any of these files?
For 4. I don't know if I need/want any of these files?
For 5. I don't know if I need/want any of these files?

BIABman,

Just to help readers get a clearer picture in their minds...

By "Minimum installation" are you meaning that you want to install the minimum requirements that BIAB needs to have on a computers hard drive so as to run the program from a USB drive?

Regards,
--Noel

Hi Noel,

Thanks for helping.
No that's not what I am aiming for.

I want to install the minimum files required to run BIAB from my c: hard drive.
I want to also install on my c: drive all the jazz Real track bass, drums and piano, no other Real tracks.

For the rest, I understand I can audition all the styles either online or from the installation USB drive and then copy any style I like somewhere onto c: drive.

"I only use the Jazz styles and the Real Drums/Bass parts mostly. Occasionally I'll add some Real piano
parts."

Can you install it on another drive then copy what you need from the drive over to c:\ drive.
Just copy all the folders in x:\bb\RealTracks that you want to c:\bbRealTracks
you will also need to do the same with x:\bb\RealTracks\Direct Input
and include x:\bb\RealTracks\Direct Input\Library (for Holds) to c:\bb\RealTracks\Direct Input\Library
and x:\bb\RealTracks\Library (for Holds) to c:\bb\RealTracks\Library
and the drum folder to want in x:\bb\Drums to c:\bb\Drums
and x:\bb\Soloists to c:\bb\Soloist
and x:\bb\Styles to c:\bb\Styles

if a folder has just a file "AlternateFolderNames.txt" then also copy the folder that the txt points to.

Thanks musocity for these tips. Yes I could install onto another drive and then copy to c:.
I should be able to accomplish what you have suggested.

I have a feeling this thread has only barely gotten started and has just scratched the surface so far.

I am currently attempting an installation (was going to follow musocity's advice but when various screens presented themselves after going past the initial one, I took a different turn).

I chose Custom installation.

Right at the start I got an error msg:
Installing Print to PDF driver
Unable to execute file
f:\Data\Installers\PDF995 Installer\autosetup.exe
Create process failed: code 2
The system cannot find the file specified.

The setup just completed now, but when I looked for the files installed on c: I didn't see any current date for the files!
My previous BIAB installation was in c:\Program Files\bb
Then I noticed BIAB installed itself into c:\bb.

I just clicked on the BIAB icon on my desktop and it opened my previous version BIAB 2021.
Then I went into my c:\bb folder and clicked on bbw4_64.exe and got this error msg:
The code execution cannot proceed because Data/libx64/dllelatiquePro.dll was not found. Reinstalling the program may fix this problem.

Holy cow Batman! What is this all about?

Suggestions on how to proceed now?

Suggest you not install the PDF995 Driver as part of the Custom installation and then see if it works.

This is a nice little bundled free PDF printer but you don't need it. I've always used a different one anyway (Cute PDF), and I can just select it when I Print anything.

If you installed bb on an external drive the Data folder should be there and you can copy it to C:\bb

Microsoft Windows now includes a PDF printer as a standard part of the O/S. Probably no need to install any separate PDF printer.

The Setup.exe on the hard drive runs these installers (see image below). bandinabox_realband_setup is the main Band-in-a-Box installer. HiQ and Playable RealTracks are essentially MIDI instruments that work with the Sforzando MIDI sample player. You can install them later or never. My suggestion is to de-select the Playable RealTracks, but leave HiQ selected. This is about 1 GB installed, and some styles call for HiQ instruments especially those that use MIDI SuperTracks. But if you know that you won't be using MIDI at all (only RealTracks), then just de-select it. Totally fine.



=========================

Then select the "minimal" install option for Band-in-a-Box as pictured below. This is the default. Then you are finished installing, if you are running it from the shipped SSD.



==========================


This is not that easy. We don't have an option to copy only Jazz material (or only Country, etc.), and doing it manually you are likely to miss certain files and get a lot of messages about missing files. You bought the UltraPAK, you should use it - it's going to run a lot smoother than trying to put together a custom folder manually.

OK thanks folks for your help (printer drivers) and Andrew.

I am starting to have some success but am not quite there yet.

Here's what I'd like to accomplish. Somehow (I don't remember how) I managed to install BIAB 2021 onto my c:
drive in Jan 2021. I'd just like to do the same thing with this 2024 UltraPak upgrade.

I installed it in c:\Program Files\bb and each time I open BIAB I get a message in the bottom right corner saying: "It really would be nice if you moved your files to c:\bb Have a nice day!"
Well I am quite surprised that BIAB subtly forces you to install the program in their preferred location.
How difficult is it for the BIAB programmers to see where I have the program and adjust accordingly?

Somehow I have been able to use the program this way up until now, so it certainly has adjusted.

The core program files are in the c:\Program Files\bb folder.
So as not to take up any more precious space on my c: drive I installed my RealTracks and RealDrums onto:
d:\Music\BIAB

So I started to have some success yesterday when I managed to install BIAB onto a USB stick.
I went for the full install, as recommended by Musocity.
He said after doing a full install I could copy over only what I wanted onto my c: drive.

Mario suggested:

"I would install only the main BiaB program and if you use them the Plogue sforzando and Synthmaster Player onto your hard drive and put everything else on an external HD. "

So now the big question is how do I put everything together? Yes I am even willing to install onto c:\bb this time.

I basically would like to have the minimum files required to run BIAB on my c:\ drive and the RealTrack stuff situated on my
d:\Music\BIAB

Just for reference, my BIAB 2021 is still alive and runs perfectly fine. I currently have a second icon on my desktop that only comes alive when I have my BIAB 2024 USB installation drive active.

If I managed to get my BIAB 2021 to work this way and all my previous BIAB versions I'm sure BIAB 2024 can do the same.

One strange thing. When I looked into my Windows 'installed apps' I saw my BIAB 2024 that I installed yesterday, showing 27.7G of space used.
But I couldn't see my BIAB 2021 installation ! What happened to it? It still runs.
And did BIAB 2024 install into the same folder as BIAB 2021?

In the Program Files folder the permission are more restrictive, in c:\bb it will run like a portable app you can run, copy, paste and add files easy.

OK thanks muso, I didn't know that!

That’s correct. The /Program Files (either of them) are the places you do not want to install to

Well I still haven't set up BIAB yet, but hope to do so in earnest now.

Somehow, don't ask me how, I managed to install BIAB 2017 onto a tiny c: drive back in 2018.
I just checked and the BIAB server file(s) was 2.5M (that's M as in Megabytes).
Real Tracks 2G!

Now I realize that the program has grown since then, but surely I can get just the essential files
onto my c: drive somehow, and the rest (Real Tracks/Drums) onto my d: drive?

Can someone please explain in detail how to do this?
Also, I don't need/want Real Band (I have never used it since it came out, I use Reaper).
I didn't see an option NOT to install it. Guidance with this too please, how not to install it?

Thanks!

Well that didn't work very well...

I just had a chat with tech support (online) around an hour ago asking about installing BIAB.
I went through all the same questions I had been asking here.

The recommendation was:
1. Custom Installation
2. Just uncheck the copy RealTracks/RealDrums.

That was it basically.
So I chose " Custom Installation" and the next screen I was asked to select what I wanted to install:

There were the five (5) checkboxes available with Custom Installation:
1. BIAB + Realband, DAW plugins, RealTrack files, Real Drums, Super Tracks, Artist Perf., other BIAB addons.
2. Hi-Q inst. for Sforzando
3. Playable Realtracks Set 1 for Sforzando
4. Playable Realtracks Set 2 for Sforzando
5. Playable Realtracks Set 3 for Sforzando

Since I was told to uncheck RealTracks/RealDrums and there was no option to do that specifically, I unchecked 1.
After the installation was finished here is what I saw.

9 G of space was used.
I tried to find where these files were but it was not easy.

The only thing I could find was essentially:
C:\Program Files\PG Music Inc\Band-in-a-Box Sounds\Programs\Playable RealTracks and
C:\Program Files\PG Music Inc\Band-in-a-Box Sounds\Programs\Playable RealDrums

These were the folders with the new stuff. Probably the 9 Gigs worth.

But I couldn't see how to start BIAB2024.

I still could see my BIAB2021 installation in C:\Program Files\bb

I had asked the agent where to install BIAB2024 and the plan was to install to c:\bb but I was never asked
about this.

I know I'm repeating myself, but in my opinion your best option is to run Band-in-a-Box from the external SSD drive like I described previously.

If you REALLY want to run the program on your C: drive, then you could use the setup "option 2" (Install Band-in-a-Box, but not RealTracks/Drums). This requires about 25GB or so. You will still need to have the external drive plugged in, and you will specify custom folder locations for the RealTracks and Drums folder (pointing to the external drive) in Band-in-a-Box.

Thanks for helping again Andrew.
I need to be clear about a few things.
I have been running BIAB from my c: drive for more than 20 years.
I know it's possible to do this.
I also know it's possible to store the RealTracks and RealDrums on my internal d: drive.
I have been running BIAB this way for many years.

The main reason I can't run it from an external SSD drive is because I am EXTREMELY sensitive to EMF's.
As soon as I plug one in I get head strain/headache, so that's not an option for me.

It's critical that I know exactly how much space BIAB will take up on my c: drive for this installation.
The installation screen says 35 G required for "option 2", not the 25 G that you just mentioned.

I currently have 42G remaining on my c: drive.
We all know that we shouldn't leave such low sapce <10G on the main c: drive for the computer to function well.
There needs to be temporary file space and space for future programs as well.

Another question. If I choose "option 2" can I install BIAB on my internal d:\ drive?
That's where I have my RealTracks/Drums. And I have over 100G free space there.
If BIAB can run from an external drive, it should also be able to run from an internal drive too right (like d:)?

If I can do this, which option should I choose to set this up?

Yes certainly you can have the RealTracks and/or bb folder on the D: drive.
Do you have an existing bb/RealTracks folder on your D: drive? How large is it and how much free space do you have on that drive?

I've never heard of this, especially with SSD's, but I take your issue on notice.
What about an external drive in a full metal enclosure? Would that have any benefit?

Anyways, find out the size of any existing Band-in-a-Box content on your D: drive (i.e. the bb folder, or the RealTracks folder if that's all you have there) - right-click on the folder and select properties.

Find out the size of the bb folder on the Band-in-a-Box drive (yours should be about 170GB) Subtract the D drive folder size from the SSD drive folder size, and that's how much additional free space you need.

If you have enough space, then just copy and paste the bb folder to D: replacing existing files when asked, and you're done.

If you don't have quite enough space, but it is close, then you could omit certain files. If you KNOW you won't be using the Direct Input (DI) versions of RealTracks for example, you could omit the RealTracks/Direct Input folder. That will save about 20GB. That can be done easily, if you don't know how then ask here and someone will describe the steps in detail.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I read this. BIABman, If you feel comfortable sharing more about your condition, I would like to learn more about it, because so far, studies do not show a definitive causation even though many suspect one.

I have one of these meters, which is fascinating to work with because EMF is everywhere: https://www.trifield.com/product/trifield-emf-meter/

Yes.
I have d:\Music\BIAB\RealTracks\ 34.1G
and
d:\Music\BIAB\Drums\ 4.8 G

Free space on d: is currently 98 G.

I will have to try that out with my SSD's (I have lots of backups).

Currently when I use them to back up my c: SSD, I plug them into one of my USB slots (using a cable).
I immediately feel the EMF's. And it becomes stronger when files are copied, so I leave the room.

Before I bought large SSD's I used to use 2.5" hard drives, but had the same problem as with the SSD's.

Sure I will confide. I happen to be an extremely sensitive person. Sensitive to sounds/noises and EMF's mostly.
I can feel pressure in my temples when a cellphone is turned on near me.

I don't know if anyone remembers the Zip drives from 20+ years ago? They really hurt my head!

When I buy USB memory disks/SD cards I try to find the slowest, because they use the least amount of power.
I can feel Class 10 SD cards in my temples, Class 4 and lower are OK.
I prefer a USB 2.0 over 3.0.

I am currently having new glasses made and it's a very difficult process for me because my eyes are sensitive to the slightest change in prescription. I immediately get a buzz in my temples similar to the electronics EMF's if the prescription isn't perfect.

I have a couple of EMF meters. A sensitive one for EMF's and an RF meter for Wifi, Bluetooth, smart meters, phones etc.

As I mentioned above:

I have d:\Music\BIAB\RealTracks\ 34.1G
and d:\Music\BIAB\Drums\ 4.8 G

Free space on d: is currently 98 G.



My bb folder on the BIAB drive is 174 G.
I'm not following how you calculated the additional space I will need?
Could you please explain it in more detail?


I can't copy the bb folder to d: because I have only 98 G left on D:.

How did BIAB balloon in size over the past 7 years?
Seven years ago I installed it on a notebook that had a 30G c: drive.
And it had lots of other programs as well.

Hello BIABman,

First, thanks for sharing the news about your sensitivity to EMF. That must be very difficult to have to deal with in this electronic world we live in. It seems you have developed some good coping skills.

Regarding the free space on the computer D drive and how to tell if you can transfer all the BiaB files. Your D drive already has 34.1G of RealTracks and 4.8G of RealDrums so your existing content presently is 34.1 + 4.8 or 38.9G. The install will not include the content you have already.

The BiaB folder on the hard drive is 174G. 174G of total content minus 38.9G of existing content leaves 135.1G of new content.

D drive currently reports 98G of free space.

Your D drive does not have enough free space to support the installation of all the new RealTracks and RealDrums.

Thanks for your understanding my difficult situation Jim!

And thanks for explaining the calculations to me. Now they make sense to me.
But there may be light at the end of the tunnel!

Here's why. There were a few different suggestions above on how to make the installation. One of them involved taking the BIAB USB installation drive and doing a full installation to a USB disk. The idea there was to get files I needed onto the USB stick and transfer them to my d: drive.

Well I followed that suggestion. I have a USB stick with a full installation.
The next thing I did was copy all of the NEW RealTracks and RealDrums that I wanted into my d:\Music\BIAB\RealDrums and d:\Music\BIAB\Drums folders.

So I don't need any more RealTracks or RealDrums during an installation to my d: drive!

Could I manage doing an installation given this info?
If so, can someone tell me what steps to follow to get ONLY the program files installed on d:\bb?

While I don't understand entirely what you are doing, one suggestion that may help is to download the "Band-in-a-Box and RealBand 2024" file from your download page, run it and only select the Band-in-a-Box component. That will only install the main Band-in-a-Box program files.

The short answer to that is probably "RealTracks". There are lots and they're quite big.

You might consider swapping the hard drive in your present PC for a new larger one, probably SSD.
They're pretty low cost these days, are usually fairly easy to swap out and would deal with both the space and the issue of having to use the external drive. Laptops are a bit fiddly, but there's usually a howto somewhere on YouTube.

bbman.

since our last exchange ive given more thought to your emf dilemma etc. i really think emf shou!d be addressed with a good solution.

heres what i suggest...
contact pc refurbishers ..pc manufacturers ..and also makers of custom pc for recording studios.
and see what pc they have re lowest emf.

also dont forget mini pc.
i love mine and put it the other end of the room.
so only a kbd is on my desk with monitor.
manufacturers of mini pc are geekom...beelink...minisforum and others.
im getting boot times into win and bb and rb of a few secs.
also high capacity drives.
a mini pc or refurb is only a few hundred bucks....eg my ryzen
see my tips in tips tricks forum re acquiring anew pc if you go this route. note the low dpc tip for music production.

in summary i would address the emf situation...
pc makers n builders might have a solution.

best i can suggest...hth...ymmv.

happiness.

om. 🇨🇦. 🇬🇧

Oh, I missed this question. The reason is because a few years ago you only had the MegaPAK, which has a small fraction of the content of the UltraPAK. The MegaPAK has grown also, but is still only about 40GB. You upgraded to the UltraPAK.

Not only do I have limited disk space, but I also have limited internet downloading capabilities.
That is why I had my BIAB program snail mailed to me.

I'm a little confused. Are you saying I can only install the "Band-in-a-Box component"
via downloading from the internet and not directly from the BIAB SSD that was mailed to me?

I'm also sensitive to Wifi routers and motherboard CPU's.
If the power is too strong I feel it in my temples.

When I go shopping for computer notebooks I have to be very careful which one I choose.
Generally speaking I look for the slower/lowest-powered CPU's out there.
So I'll go for a Celeron CPU over a Pentium.

It's not that large, a 1400 MB download.

Ok, you said you have BB2021 installed and working. So do this:
1. Open the bb folder on the external BiaB 2024 drive.
2. Select all. (CTRL+A)
3. Hold down the control key and click on Demos, Drums, RealTracks, Soloists, and Styles to deselect those folders.
4. Copy (CTRL+C)
5. Now navigate to where you have the Band-in-a-Box 2021 folder and open the folder.
6. Paste (CTRL+V). If asked, replace existing files.
That's it.

Well I finally achieved success!

Interestingly the help came from a PGMusic chat agent.

It had been recommended to me from most to choose the 4th install option (Custom Install)
but that didn't do the trick.
I had to choose the 2nd Install option.

And do unintuitive things like agree to a full installation at the start!
Shortly after I got to screens where I could tell BIAB to install to d:\bb
and not install any RealTracks or RealDrums.

So I can now start BIAB 2024. I have re-built the RealTracks/Drums list.
I haven't tried to play any songs or input chords etc. or do anything yet with BIAB, but
at least it is finally working!

And it is working from my 'hard drive', which is where I wanted it to run from.
And it doesn't require any USB disk to run!

And the disk space required was:
d: 28.4G
c: 1.4G
So that was cool too.

Thanks to all here for sticking with me through this!

Thanks Andrew. It's too bad I didn't get these instructions before I did my installation the past hour. (I haven't been getting any notifications of message replies via e-mail, despite having my e-mail set up here).

It would have been nice to have received these instructions right at the start.
But then, it seems I would have lost my BIAB 2021 installation.
I'll probably delete it anyway once my BIAB 2024 has been tested to be working OK.

I have saved your instructions for the next time this may pop up a few years down the road.