Obviously the guy never looked up Oliver Gannon or Miles Black or Neil Swanson.

All major contributors and one them an award winning jazz guitarist and brother of Peter Gannon.

Walk in, bash people, and their backgrounds and say they know nothing?

As Mac said <ignore> USERIDX </ignore>

who bashed anyone? Who bashed anyone's background? Saying somebody's demo doesn't sound like a real band is not bashing, it's observing and giving in opinion. Doesn't mean the music sucks or the artists sucks, it just means that the backing tracks arent doing them any favors.

Sounds like you're upset with my opinion, and so u need a rallying cry of "he comes in bashes people...ill put him on ignore"

maybe you're afraid im right, and others might believe me.

I doubt they will believe me, they seem pretty darned convinced this is the the rolling stones or
mccoy tyner in a box.

Keep making me the bad guy though, it's telling.

Hey, PITB -

Obviously you don't like MIDI sounds (and that would have to include any and all applications, synthesizers, keyboards, soundcards, etc. that processes MIDI). So don't use MIDI. Just because it doesn't float your boat doesn't mean others shouldn't use it. If you don't like what others have done using MIDI, don't listen to them or buy them. That's your choice. If BIAB doesn't meet your needs, then move on and find something that does.

I just don't see what you're looking for here? What's your point?

Well I thought I might find people like myself who were using biab to record their music at home.

I heard Zan's song which I thought was good, just didnt think it sounded much different than doing a sequence of decent midi files.

People keep telling me how great it is, as ive said the only thing that sounded great was the company demos. If i couild get that sound id be 70% satisified. but nobody sounds like that, and ive loooked around. it's hard to find references because people usually dont state "here is my album, everything was done in biab"

so could be more around that I cant search for

So what i have gathered so far is that you do not think that BiaB sounds like a real live band of professional musicians right? Well no stinking duh, it isn't.

Look If you can't play anything you are stuck with midi and audio looping type technology. Sorry, but Peter Gannon can not make you a grammy winner. he gave you and the rest of us a tool. How you use it and what results you get are up to you. Most of the song and demos you are critical, of are done by amatures, beginners, and regular guys who played in a band years ago, and just love making music in the "studio/3rd bedroom" There are a few here that play out live and make backing tracks with the software. Are they as good as a 5 piece real band, no, but still good enough for the purpose. They also come with far less problems, no differences of opinion, and no drama. Some of it is very nice. There are a few that use it to record albums, not entirely in BiaB mind you but a track bed is built there, and then processed in whatever DAW one likes. BiaB was never intended as a full recording studio, it is a arragement tool. The tracks are available to use as you have the skills.

If you go back to my link (JBG was not there it is on a different page), play "together they stand" All made in BiaB with the exception of the lead guitar, and vocals. Not perfect mind you but cleanly recorded. It has flaws for sure, but not canned sounding. I mixed it in a separate program. Could it be better, sure i could learn to play the piano, and not rely on a computer to generate that track, but hey i can't, so I used what is available.

This is what everyone is talking about, start with BiaB, but learn the whole gammet of tools. Heck if you are not a musician, of any sorts you have to learn to use some kind of instrument even if that is software. There is not program you can type in chords and out pops a platinum album. It takes a lot of work, and you sitting around critcizing other work does not get it done. If this program is not for you, and you feel you can not learn it well enough, ot gain some value, move on. I have heard some good music come out of this as a basis, i have heard some clunkers as well. There are a lot of folks out there that use this that do not post music here, and many who use it as a tool to work out stuff. If you can not make decent sounding music with this program, how do you expect to make it with anything else? You said you do not play all the instruments right? Well how you gonna get there? Humanize the midi track, use efects and other techniques to make it better. It's up to you.

>>> it's hard to find references because people usually dont state "here is my album, everything was done in biab"

OK, if you're looking for "here is my album, everything was done in biab"... here ya go....

http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/showfl...true#Post214063

... and yes, this sounds better than our demos....

PITB

These RT Demos sound good, probably because each RT was recorded in a professional studio - not the demos. Maybe we the users tweak too much and we should leave the RTs alone. Midi is only as good as your synth. Hardware synths better than software. Midi gives more soloist/melodist flexibility. RTs at this point in time give less flexibility. Time-wise it's faster to edit midi, longer to edit RTs. Trade-offs, trade-offs - each has their strengths.

What are your goals? Make music? The more you worry about perfection, the less gets done. Why are you worried about the sound of the demos? If you think somebody is trying to sell you the impossible dream, then nothing anybody on the forum says will ever make a difference - you are who you are and that will probably never change. The software is what it is - accept it or not - everything else is really irrelevant, or the User's challenge.

Luck - Ian

still hard to find references. He doesnt mention BIAB does he?

That's a pretty good sounding recording, really good actually, the sax sounds best which is the featured instrument sounds very big and rich.

The backing tracks also sound good, it's done well.

But you keep showing me jazz samples, this software was made with jazz and blues in mind because the music just has to follow the featured instrument.

This is a good sample but show me something with guitars and singing in the mix.

As a side note, there might be more people like me, who hear what they hear on this site and then scratch their head, you might wanna put up real examples like this and others to showcase what the program can do.

>> still hard to find references. He doesnt mention BIAB does he?

Yes, he does. Read the first line of the link ( http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/showfl...true#Post214063 ), where he says ...
"I've just recorded a CD on sax (and a bit of clarinet), using nothing but Band-in-a-box as backing"

>> As a side note, there might be more people like me, who hear what they hear on this site and then scratch their head, you might wanna put up real examples like this and others to showcase what the program can do.

Yes, a good idea, and we have added a User Showcase Forum recently.

How'd I miss getting involved in this?
Mac which one is the troll?

Playin in the band- I don't think you're on the wrong track with your inquiry. You're just misguided. And judging from your observations on how great the online demos are, your knowledge of a well put together chart and musical sound are of a beginner level. I don't mean that as a put-down mind you. But anyone who claims the demos are the best they've heard has limited knowledge of the whole process, and at the very least, the software itself.

First off, can we hear some of your work please? I don't take anyone particularly seriously when they say anything, claim anything, or give advice until I hear their work. Then I truly know where they are coming from musically.

But, you are right to question. It's no small chunk of change to buy this software. I guess you can buy the least expensive package, which isn't a ton of scratch. But the better packages are some bucks, for sure. And it's the bigger packages that offer the most flexibility right out of the box. I questioned this software, the sound of it, and the usefulness of it for my working style before I bought too. So, you're right to question. Where you run off the tracks is how you're reasoning it all out. I believe that's because you're a youngin. A kid.

Here's the difference between my reasoning before I bought, and yours.

- I questioned sound quality. I listened to the demos and heard the potential to sound great. The potential to augment my multitrack recordings. The potential to fit into a professional multitrack production. You hear the demos as the best it can sound and the best results the software can give you. Amusing, really- and very telling.

- I listened to other peoples work with the software to help balance my desicion. Another perspective, if you will. And I listened to a LOT of samples. But that didn't factor in at ALL to my desicion. That only tells me how good someone else is, not how good I CAN BE WITH IT. You listen to other peoples work and judge how good you'll be with it. Wrong. Again, telling. Great sounding work with biab is only really a reflection of how good THAT person is, not you. It CAN give you an idea of how good things can sound, true. It'd be nice to hear tons of amazing work, to help with a desicion right? But that trap is common to the inexperienced. Believe me when I tell you- the best of software will sound like ASS in the hands of the inexperienced. That goes for ANY software, or gear for that matter. The industry is chock full of people spending thousands of dollars for the next peice of gear or software that's gonna make their work sound amazing. Retailers depend on it! Truth is, only people with enough knowledge and experience realize that any software or gear is only an EXTENSION of their ability, and not the ability itself.

In the end you are actually right in a way. Biab isn't a magic bullet. It won't make you sound like a rock star all on it's own. Writing a chart and putting some instruments in it will not automatically make an awesome sounding product. It's simply another tool- a very powerful tool. Give it to someone with advanced talent, and they'll make an awesome sounding track. It has that potential. Not always by just using the program stock, but with integration with your own live tracks- assuming THOSE performances are good enough too. People with advanced skills don't base THEIR potential on demos! LOL! If you're observing enough, the potential with this software is obvious. Give it to someone with intermediate skills, and you can make a wonderful track. A real toe-tapper. It may not sound completely authentic. It may sound a bit ridgid. A bit forced. The mix may be questionable. This software gives enough power to hang yourself quite frankly, at the intermediate level. The power REALLY comes in at the beginner level. These folks can't even play an instrument. They can't fathom what the first chord in a piece of music should be, let alone the next. And yet with this software, they can make a song. For many people that's where the true joy is- just creating music. Not grammy worthy music. Just music. Their OWN music. That's the beauty of what biab has become now, and where it's headed. It's absolutely useful for seasoned pros, and a godsend for beginners. Kudos PG.

If you want to make rock or pop records and you can't hear the potential of biab to help you in that cause, the answer is actually very simple. Get yourself a rockin band, rehearse your asses off, hit record, and make a record. No body is twisting your arm to buy this software. If you think it could help you, give it a spin. But if you think biab alone will make you an amazing recording artist, or sound like an unblieveable mixing engineer, or automatically pop out grammy winning results, you are, as I believe you to be, an inexperienced youngster. Whether biab will get you where you want to be is completely up to YOUR ability.

Good luck.

Dan

I think compared to what people here are doing with BIAB, the company demos are great. They are not great for what they bring musically, just the sound of the tracks sound far and above better than anything ive heard here. Thats all I said. And Im wondering why.

If that makes me misguided, so be it.

My knowledge of charts has nothing to do with that perspective, I dont chart anything...i'm a singer songwriter of a rock persuation. The rolling stones don't chart...lol...Stevie Ray Vaugn doesn't chart.

Any singer songwriter stuff ive ever heard using BIAB always sounded mechanical,
but it works for jazz music the best.

I also play blues guitar and I can see the value of the program for that.

But rememeber as misguided as you may think I am, im buying the program for me, not for you. It's what I think it will do for me, and im trying to find that out.

And what you say about begginners getting the most benefit, that is the most on spot thing u've said yet. There is no question that if you dont know anything about music, you wont make anything worth while, but you might make something that SOUNDS good, if the SOUNDS are really there. I mean all you need is two chords going back and forth to SOUND good. Play Twsit and Shout by The Beatles C F G, and it should SOUND good, You got one guitar, a bass, drums and Piano...it should SOUND good, but not everybody is SOUNDING good using BIAB.

I write songs, tons. I want to record them. I play guitar and can program EZ drummer. I can buy a bass and fake my way on bass, I can fake my way on Piano
or I can get somebody to play on everything I write. We're talking lots of money, time and reliance on other people.

And at 40 years old, who puts an ad in the papaer saying "Guy looking for form original band" YEAHHH LEts get a record DeaLLLL lol

Im looking to be in charge of my own music and recordings.

Musical Knowledge has nothing to do with it. The Ramones wrote great, and I mean GREAT pop songs, and they knew three chords.

If you think it doesn't take skill to write great pop/rock songs i believe u may be the misguided one.

But we'll argue about that later.

Well then why dont all artists use BIAB to release their albums?

Surely bob Dylan has proven himself to be one of the worlds great songwriters, Band In A BOX would only then be an extension of his ability, I havent seen him relesae an album using BIAB yet, but it may be coming, due to this post.

"Surely bob Dylan has proven himself to be one of the worlds great songwriters, Band In A BOX would only then be an extension of his ability, I havent seen him relesae an album using BIAB yet, but it may be coming, due to this post."

That is the sillyist thing i have ever heard. Bob Dylan is a long time professional musician, who records in a pro studio with a group of very talented musicians. You are a one instrument player who has no one else to play with, like a lot of us, we play alone. Most of us have limited talent. I play the guitar and the bass, and a little piano, and a little drums. But i do not play all of them well enough to turn out high end stuff. Evidently you are in the same boat.

If you want to be a singer song writer, you can play the guitar, fake the bass and piano, and program EZ drummer, or use a program like BiaB to build the track base, drums and piano, and bass and overdub guitar tracks to it and sing over it. The problem is that if you are a mediocre bass and piano player, you will get less than stellar results. So if the BiaB tracks are a tad mechanical, that is still usually better than poorly played and badly recorded tracks. I think you are being a way bit over critical of some of the music on this site. Sure most of the tracks are less than commercial grade, but some of the tracks are fairly decent. Most of these folks if they were to really have the desire they could mix and master the stuff and get better results.

Guys Like Carlos., Mike the Sax dude, and a few others can make great tracks. That proves it can be done. I remember this same old tired conversation over Loop based recording at Acidplanet.com, and the same over midi at cakewalk. Tools do not build a house carpenters do.

My suggestion for you is to prove it to. Make some great rock tracks. Hone your skills! Or muddle thru some average skill played bass piano, and programmed drum track and live with that.

"Surely bob Dylan has proven himself to be one of the worlds great songwriters, Band In A BOX would only then be an extension of his ability, I havent seen him relesae an album using BIAB yet, but it may be coming, due to this post."

That is the sillyist thing i have ever heard. Bob Dylan is a long time professional musician, who records in a pro studio with a group of very talented musicians. You are a one instrument player who has no one else to play with, like a lot of us, we play alone. Most of us have limited talent. I play the guitar and the bass, and a little piano, and a little drums. But i do not play all of them well enough to turn out high end stuff. Evidently you are in the same boat.


So what you saying is that you can't get professional track recordings with BIAB. Bob Dylan doesnt play bass does he? I dont know he plays Piano either. He needs bass and Paino on his songs too.

If BIAB was as good as a real band, he could save money using BIAB.

I know im being facetious, but many real musicians wont respect somebody who releases an album using BIAB tracks. But many do acknoweldged BIAB as a good tool.

Hi PITB,

You've certainly done your homework. I've got to say that I really admire your thoroughness. My advice to you is, "if in doubt, don't". As many have already said, a tool is only as good as the person who uses it. If, after all your questions and investigations, you cannot see how to use BIAB in your particular circumstances then, to my way of thinking, that means that BIAB is not for you at this point in time; maybe one day it will be.

All the best with your songwriting,
Noel

A person's mind, changed against his will, is of the same opinion still.

Why even bother with this one....



Mac had the best idea.

yes indeed, but it's still possible you will change your mind.

Mac was wrong, why ignore somebody cause they disagree with you.

Amen and Amen.............Ignore what is unworthy, and go with the truth, that is, with PG Music..........It is what it is and we at the forum saw that it was good..............Amen

Mighty harsh words, calling somebody you dont know unworthy. Where did you earn the right to call anybody unworthy?

There is this story of those guys -> a mathematician, a sociologist and an engineer sitting in a train riding through some foreign country. Looking out of the window, they get aware of a lonely black sheep grazing calmly on a lush meadow. The sociologist infers that in this country likely all sheep are black ... whereas the engineer concludes sharply -> wait - you may just say that in this country at least one sheep is black. Now the mathematician smiles and states, well - thoroughly you may just infer that in this country at least one sheep is black on one side ...

Ya' know, critter never stated that you are unworthy. It's seemingly just his opinion that s.th. posted here seems unworthy ... (whatever that means)

Best piece of advice I ever got:

Never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man!

I hope this is taken in the lighthearted manner in which its meant.

Just in case you are not merely an antagonist...
Kenny G or the like = smooth jazz
Al Dimeola, Chick Corea and the like = jazz fusion

As for your reluctance to post your work(s), supposedly due fear of unfair critique from the forum, let us know when Al Dimeola invites you to 'Play in the Band'

I Dont Write Jazz music, I wont Need Al Dimeloa. But I'm sure he requests your presence on his latest album.

It's still all fusion=fusing genres. But for sake of technicality...ok

But I'll post some stuff. If you are going to look at it through the eyes of a jazz enthusiast, it's not going to mean anything to you.

But Remember Sanborn has played with David Bowie, music is music.

One rock song, one pop song... fire away

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1091545

Hey, PITB -

I like it! Tell us more about the songs. Are you the vocalist?

Sounds to me like you're looking more for a rock guitar sound than anything else. There are several RealTracks to do that kind of thing, but you won't be able to tell the RealTracks exactly what to play, so you can't necessarily get the exact solo or riff you might be looking for. But over time, more RealTracks will be coming.

I enjoyed both songs, however. I loved the harmony on "Daydream Night". Just tell use more about how you put them together.

Thanks, it's basicly my songs, me singing and playing guitar. used ez drummer for drums and there's no bass or anything else in there, hence that's why Im looking for a broader solution.

Hi there,

I've been following this thread a bit. I think you wanted to hear some songs with Guitar and Vocals.
Check out my link. http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=835626
Three songs are old and one is newer
All MIDI but the Vocals and Guitars.
All done with Sound Canvas Box and VSC.
The old songs had a bit of editing in MIDI.
Now I'm just trying to play again.

The newer one "Craylike Jam" I just played to it and didn't do a thing. Kind of sloppy, but I dig it.

Check them out if you like.

The three old songs were taken from cassette recordings.

Wayne,

WOW!! PITB. you really don't need BIAB. I took the time to check out your tunes. Can't believe it. There really
isn't anything nice I can say about them! Momma taught me if I couldn't say anything nice, not to say anything at all. No more posts by me on THIS topic!

nice playing, the software was made for this kind of stuff.

Like Mr Cray myself

Very credibile critique kirby.

The only comments I have about your tracks is that they sound as stiff and canned as you accuse biab users tracks of being, and like most people who have the tools to mix but can't, reverb is not your friend. Listen to the rock and pop demos, since you like the sound of the demos. If you like what you hear, try the software. If you don't, then don't. You have two threads here where you managed to insult almost every biab user here, as well for some reason, you're trying to call out the software for not being used on albums. I can't figure out whether you're a troll or an idiot. I'm going with an even mix of both. The kicker is that either way, you'll still sound as canned as you claim you're trying to avoid. There is NO software that will avoid that all on it's own. It's up to the talent of the user to rise above and on that point...I'm gonna leave it at that. And so, what if you learned that biab is used on tons of albums and there were tons of original rock and pop tunes done by users here that amazed you? Would THAT convince you to buy in and still sound like shit yourself? If for nothing else, I suggest you look elsewhere because I can't imagine many here who'd be willing to help you if you had a problem. Not after you've gone out of your way to let everyone know you think their work is sub par, while using software you don't think has a place in the professional world. If that ain't ass backwards and counter productive to figuring out if a product is right for you, I don't know what is. Even I forgot the golden rule- ignore a troll. Shame on me. I can be as nice as pie but if someone is gonna be a schmuck, they're gonna get my schmucky side right back. Do yourself a favor and cop to being a troll. A troll at least has some brains.

Dan

Man you really are a stooge.

1. This is just a sample recording, two instruments.... a guitar and ez drummer. so what part is canned? Seriously, that made no sense.

2. I didnt say this was a great recording, it's just an idea tape. You are a moron if you cant see that.
This is not arranged in any way, it's just a rough recording.

That is why Im looking for better alternatives anyway.

Other people are posting their stuff demonstrating what they did in BIAB, and they think it sounds great. I dont think mine sounds great.

Nobody needs your help anyway, you've said nothing but moronic things say day 1.

A duh "it sounds as canned as you accuse others as sounding" lolll

there's one live instrument and programed drums...

But i'm really distraught over you not helping me out. you coulda made all the difference for this two track demo.

"I coulda been a contender"

tee hee, i should be paying for this, free laughs.

Jazzy dan, nothing wrong with that, good work.

Sounds good, cool as the other side of the pillow.

There's no denying this stuff works for jazz and blues.

If you're a jammer, you will always have band members on your pc.

I have some blues stuff I could use it for too. So i may end up getting it anyway

and Sundance, thanks for the kind words and advice... wink wink.

PITB,

That stuff would be AWESOME dude if I were a fly!

Heya PITB
"Please Don't Let Me Know" won't help you now. I'll let you know. I like the song - lots of good stuff there already. And lots of crackles too, most obvious at 1.26 and 3.11. May I ask you what monitors you are mixing on? The sound seems very, very bright here on this side (Adam A7 +sub and cans Audio-Technica M50 + Sennheiser 650's). I guess I know now why you thought my mix to be somewhat dull...
Hats off for your guitar playing and vocals. I wish I could. Mixing is a very personal thing. That's part of the artistry, besides creating lyrics, singing and playing one ore more instruments. Guess you know that. Keep on it.
Cheers,
Daniel

edit after re-listening: why not bring this mighty guitar sound forward. I like it. Vox is not in the mix yet (to loud).

if you were a fly, you're opinion would be worth something.

Doh, left yourself open.

Thanks Delta,

it's been a mixed bag of reviews, you've got your rolling stone critics hammering it, and you got some regular joes saying they like it.

ahh the life of a home pc, rough recording star...

Regular Joes know what they like too. Read the edit in my post....
Daniel
ps: what's a regular Joe anyway?

If you take a look back in this thread, I've given you the most lengthy helpful information I could muster. It's taken you two threads of negatively critiquing other peoples work and questioning the softwares viability to get nowhere. I stand by my suggestion that you're either a troll or an idiot, because it doesn't take this much nonsense to make a decision about a piece of software. Not for someone with brains, anyway, and not for someone with an ounce of respect for others.

This is why is not worth chumming up to a troll folks. They always show their true colors in the end. And btw, your critiques of other peoples work and recorded music is laughable.

The best advise I can now give you is to stick to bar bands and garages and if you're lucky, maybe they'll stick around after the beer is gone and do some recording with you. All things considered, you'll find biab a struggle and let me tell you, that's the most truthful and spot on advise you're gonna get.

And with that, he'll now buy the software. I've seen it all too many times.

I'm off the key now. I like to play nice, really I do.

Dan

and my advice to you would be to hang on to your status as ...uhh... what is it again...errr...ahhhh,,,

oh yes, the Quincy Jones of the Pgmusic board.

Now when you bought the BIAB software, did it include some kind of key to knowing everything?

Did it include the written rights to assume you're above everyone else, and everyone needs your help.

I hope mine comes with a few cracks on boneheads like yourself. Im runnin low on the one liners, ill need a few more.

Hey PITB -

Now you're just becoming a Pain In The Butt. This is starting to remind me of the time we were taken for a ride several years ago. The old timers know what I mean.

Over and Out

I listened to your two demos, I think you could do a lot with BIAB. Here are some demos I've done with BIAB. I always try and mix some live stuff in to make it all seem more "real".

Rhonda (rockish): http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9294777

Country is in the Ear of the Beholder (country): http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8473778

Movie in My Head (rock): http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8775082

Ole Stomping Ground (Americana): http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8790679

She Was Made to be Played (alternative): http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8111400

At the bottom of each song I list the BIAB instruments used.

Kevin

pitb.
i feel compelled to comment.
i havent had time to be on these user forums like normal due to various family
aspects/problems to deal with.
but heres my 2c fwiw.
1. YOU HAVE NOT SUGGESTED A BETTER ALTERNATIVE BETTER MUSIC CREATION SOLUTION.
for example in a typical daw software in the past one had to
laboriously create track after track which could take ages.
with this new biab/rb software paradigm it means a song creator like
myself can get a song idea down faster than traditional approaches
and try lots of different chord arrangement ideas.
frankly i wish i had have had this software when i started writing songs
decades ago.
in summary in the world of music software the rb/biab combo is unique.
i know of no other product that competes.
do you ??
for example ezdrummer is just drums, and can get rather
pricey, whereas with rb/biab your getting much more than just drums.
ive tried every approach out there.
2. you ask for album examples, but the software hasnt been out there in the market
for years n years. so obviously it takes a time for albums to appear.
thus your more likely to hear single songs.
which of course will vary in quality cos many folks are getting familiar
with the product.
for me i can tell you i wouldnt be doing elevator music.
it would be rock all the way mate and/or some MOR.
3. lets look at a typical album production cost.
it can easily run over 150k includeing session musicians in a major studio.
in many cases much much more.
how many people can afford that ??
ive done original songs on everything from bouncing useing two cassette deks thru
2 inch pro multitrack thru useing hi end mega studios, and in the latter
tho a nice environment i was going broke fast i can tell you.
frankly my only bitch is the pg pricing particularly for someone like myself with
other family responsibilities that stress me.
i would urge pg to consider lowering prices a tad.
3. the other aspect is the rb/biab software engineering itself.
i speak from decades of building software, and thus pg have my greatest
respect for bringing these products to market.
cos its not trivial software engineering imho.
in fact i'll go further and say my recommended music creation combo right now
is pg's rb/biab and reaper.
with respect pitb i would suggest you look at things in the following context.
a song to my mind is akin to building a house.
you start off with a foundation, gradually build up the house and then
add the fancy bits the wife wants..lol.
similarly consider biab/rb for trying out lots of different song foundations,
then once you get that "aha moment" get your bed traks right from
biab/rb and drop em into reaper (or your other preferred traditional
software, samp or ptools or cubase or sonar etc) and then add your final vocals and lead up front
traks and do final mixing.
of course you could do everything in rb/biab if you wish.
but different people use different approaches.

as i said show me a better solution to rb/biab.
i'm all ears and havent seen one.
please dont mention "painting loops".
i tried that once..drove me nuts.
its easy to knock anything, but imho the rb/biab plus real tracks
so one can have real session musicians on ones songs is
a significant breakthrough in music software engineering.
as others have said its how the user uses the tool .
all the best.

...

Sure blame it all on me. I tell ya it's a crazy world we live in.

Here I was thinking this was the place to come for assistance and 411 on the pgmusic line. what i found is it's a hangout where people come to B.S. and
dont dare ask a question about the value of the software, or the swat team will come and surround ya.

online forums are really hilarious. No matter what the subject is, it could be fishing, it could automobiles, it could be a product forum, they all turn into virtual bars, where people come to meet people cause they cant in real life, and a place where the other users can be their bartender/therapist.

And you have a dispute with one, they all have a dispute with ya. Always admired the one's who could care a less what everyone else thinks, they treat u like an invididual.

But u'd be surprised how many people have no interest in the forum subject they particiapte in, they just go cause people are talking and somebody might listen to them.

"some times you wanna go, where everybody knows your name"

>>> Here are some demos I've done with BIAB. I always try and mix some live stuff in to make it all seem more "real".

Great demos Kevin!

Officially on ignore.
Just in case you don't know what that is your posts will not show up on my computer any longer. Too bad cause maybe you might by the program and realize the error of your ways but no one will hear ya. No need to reply cause I won't see your post.

Hi PITB,

I liked your songs. In my opinion, you got a flair for music, lyrics and arrangement. It's good stuff. I got the impression that if you were let loose in a professional recording studio, you'd turn out some amazing material. In relation to BIAB, I think that many of your criticisms are related to production techniques that people have used. In these forums there are some professional players but only a couple of professional producers. From what I've read on the posts over the years, most of us here struggle with mixing and mastering. After hearing your work, I don't think that that will be a problem for you.

Regards,
Noel

sounds good, actually I was guessing what was real and what wasn't and I was correct
on most of it, except for acoustic guitar because you have both real and real band acoustic, in there. lol

might be my opinion but I think that tends to clutter the mix when you have a real acoustic struming with a real band acoustic. If you use acoustic from real band, maybe play electric live over it, it might help to authenticate the acoustic more. or just playing a different part with acoustic like strum regualr chords on acosutic in real band, but then play higher voicing stuff on the live acosutic.
Playing them together makes one stand out over the other and you get a clash.

But it sounds pretty good thanks for sharing

lol, what a regular riot you are.

I'll write a post anyway, in the exremely unlikely astronomical chance you still might be able to read my posts.

what's that you say "I might buy the software, realize the error of my ways, and then no one will hear it"

pssst buddy "this forum is not the whole world" lollllllllllllll, I can guarantee you SOMEBODY will hear it. might even be you. Stranger things have happened.

But what if I dont realize the error of my ways, then what? You say u will punish me if i do see the errror of my ways by not listening, well what do I get if there was no error in my ways, what if I was right?

Then how come I get nothing? Will you at least read my post so I can then punish you by giving you a busted link. Yes, deprive you of the listenign experience, because I was correct and you were wrong.

see now? fair is fair. It's a dog eat dog world and we're all wearing milk bone underwear.

Tee hee, what a card

reasonable post

Thanks chief. I think I would let loose in a pro studio, but I'd still need someone to play
tracks I dont feel comfortable playing.

PitB, What is puzzling me is why you are spending so much time battling folks here if you really don't care about there opinions? What are you defending?

Firstly several of us have offered real advive, but none of it has benn commented on or taken. here goes again, in a real attempt to be helpful. First off I wish i had heard your clips, i can't seem to find them on the page. From what others say your vocals and guitar sound nice, and the drums are adequate. Using BiaB and Rts as bass and a simple piano track would be very easy as far as being wooden or stiff, that is the purpose of RTs they are live recordings, chopped up and regenerated to match the bar markers and chord structure. Bass whether midi or RTs can sound fine in a mix if done right, it is far less critical than the lead guitar, and or backing guitars. Once you have a solid track bed of Real Drums and Real tracks bass, you can layer guitar to the cows come home, and add in a simple solid piano track and move on to the mixing and mastering phase.

I hope this is helpful. It is all this forum and program have to offer. there no other options, as you have said yourself. Try it see what you can do, put the effort into the program. If in 25 days you are not where you want to be ask for your money back and move on.

Oh and by the way Bob Dylan plays the piano quite well, in fact on some concerts he is the piano player. I am sure the old boy plays a nice bass as well.

I thought I'd unignore you just so that I could make one last sincere post here to you.
You are absolutely correct. Most of us here, even though we never see each other, feel sort of like family. Peter Gannon is the head of that family. You'll not find a nicer guy at the head of such a great Company. I have seen Peter time & time again give away BIAB & RB to some one who was in a bad way but had been a member of this community. No we DO NOT LIKE ANYONE WHO JUST BLATANTLY BASHES THE PRODUCT.If you need help using the product we are all here to help. If you have a feature you'd like ,post it in the wish forums. If the product doesn't float your boat take your boat to another lake.
If you're a troll I feel sorry for you.
PS No matter what I'll never help you and I doubt anyone else will.
What I meant is that if we all have you on "ignore" even if you apologize no one will see it. It's really to bad if you are a sincere player because BIAB & RB can be a great tool and I think you've alienated this community to the point of no return.

Interesting thread. Unfortunately I can't open your soundclick page because it defaults to the first page. Is there another link to your music? I'd like to see what all the fuss is about.

Well this post explains why I battle, cause it's me they respond to. Nobody will tell you to stop antagonizing me, they just will tell me to do it.

Why didn't you tell the last guy to stop trying to outcast me by saying "no one will listen" you only tell me to stop.

my posts started innocently, I didn't realize it was a board for "regulars" I thought it was a board for
asking questions about the BIAB program.

Had I known it a board with religious furor behind it, I'd of been careful not to question the dogma.

It's almost as if u all have stock in BIAB, and Im somehow depreciating the value of the shares by saying "gee I dont think this could be used for a pro recording" or why does the demos sound better than the users on the board", or why dont their demos sound real but they keep telling me it;s the greatest"

In the grand scheme of things I dont matter, my opinion is not going to hurt sales. Go to Amazon.com
every product there has reviews, some good some bad, if I thought a product was good, I still would never log into to amazon and tried to bully that person for making a bad review.

But thats what happened here, and worse, I wasnt even reviewing, I was basing on what ive heard.

I made a statement saying "the company probably records the tracks in a studio to make them sound better" I mean any person who has ever bought anything has had reservations and questions, but one guy says "THEY DO NOT RECORD THE TRACKS IN A STUDIO THEY ARE HONEST PEOPLE" lol

Would it make them dishonest for doing that? The demos just poofed out of nowhere, they dont have the recorded at all? Would you make them sound as bad as you can instead?

At any rate, If/when I get the set, Im going to get the whole thing. I dont think u can evaluate what it can for you with a basic set of styles. so wer'e talkin 500 or so, taking time to master it months maybe. it's a decent enough investment to be concerned over whether or not it's going to be good.

but basicly nobody is going to bully me into believing their way is the right way, I dont care how many users sign on for the important campaign of silencing me.

Tee hee, still a riot, I havent even bought the software yet, and Im reaping rewards... endless humourous antedotes

Wow, your last sentence kind of gives you away. Big shock. But, the way I see it, the postings here will probably sell the product to someone else who is lurking on the forum. They will see who's being fair and who is not.

BTW, I did get to hear your music and honestly, I thought it was ok. Too bad you're not being serious about it. If you were, you wouldn't be trolling on a forum to insult software, users, and potential listeners, as that's to sell anything - especially music.

Far too much effort has been wasted on this thread.

I find it funny people react the way they do. i didnt "give away" anything. I thought I wrote a thorough explanation as to what happened, you still are finding fault with me however.

Nobody insulted the software, and nobody insulted anybody. At least not until they told me how stupid I was for asking if the software is worthwhile.

If you continue to make me the enemy, I'll be the enemy. But whatever you chose i still find it funny.

I agree, and people still havent changed their ways. What else can we do except wait for them to see the light

I said, I find it funny.

Last time im going to explain it.

Doesn't this forum have a moderator? I'm still a newb around here...

Sure it's kind of amusing, this troll, but antagonism like PIAB is displaying has seen many otherwise healthy, respectful forums degrade into useless blather.

It's too bad, because this thread has some interesting disussion, some by PIAB. But too much of his troll-blather mixed in.

Placed on ignore.

To the OP,
Having read this thread a few times,plus being a noobie to BIAB,it took till now to reply.Given that you seem to be no better or worse a musician than most of us on these boards.Common sense would say try the product,if you wonder why people turn defensive?? it could be that you do seem to be knocking a product that seems to WORK for ALL that try it.If you want demos do some of your own,because BiaB /RB are only as good as the person using them.Remember that if you dont like a genre of music you may not be able to critique fairly,as you will not have listened to the genre to know anything about it,plus sound is all down to someones ear.What you may think is good someone else may dislike.At the end of the day you will or you wont buy into BiaB/RB.what you do wont influence me or anybody else,but it could help you.

Cheers Chris

I didnt, I just agree with your sentiment. Too much time was wasted on this, yet people keep responding. you summed it up well.

How do you know it's liked by all?

and I wasn't knocking the software. I mean people could compare two guitar amp emulators, and say "
well brand A is good for clean tones, but stinks for distortion sounds" and brand B is great for distortion but stinks for dirty sounds. And If we wrote that comparison on this board nobody would take offense to it.

But If I wrote BIAB is a great tool for songwriters and for students of music, but stinks for pro recording, I would be bashed.

Maybe it is good for creating/recording realistic tracks, but maybe it's not. no one product is all things to everyone, yet everyone here thinks it is. Thats part of it, goes back to a few posts ago, where I said I didnt know this was a buddy buddy forum, but a tech forum.

truth is, any jazz or blues type person I know has nothing but good things to say about it, or they have heard good things about it, but I dont know many recording artists who are using it. I dont know of any engineers who run a studio and use BIAB to produce tracks for clients and charge them.

So maybe it's somewhere in the middle of everything, but dont dare suggest that. Yikes

Well your answers to my statements are in the ball park of what I said, but I was a troll for saying it.

Go figure.