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Posted By: Benboom All midi voices have the same patch - 02/07/11 07:53 PM
Hi -

I'm new to BIAB and I registered here just because of this question, which is driving me nuts. When I use midi tracks (as opposed to Realtracks, which seem fine) all my midi voices are coming out with the same voice. I am using the Plugsound Global module, which is a replacement for GM soft synths, and is multitimbral. However, the same thing happens with the few other soft synths I have tried. The correct patch NAMES show up when I load a song, but (for example) everything is coming out as a piano right now. If I go into the Soft Synth dialog and select a different instrument that changes, but the voices still all play the same one (I tried it with a pan flute to see - sure enough, bass gets played as a low pan flute then).

I am using Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bit), and I also have ASIO4ALL installed, although I am not using it with BIAB. I had to have that one because I also use Reaper as my DAW and its performance is awful without it. Could someone please tell me what other information to supply in order to figure this out?

Thank you.
Posted By: Muzic Trax Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/07/11 07:58 PM
Ctrl+Alt+Q will send a GM reset in Biab. If your playback device is GM standard, press those 3 together and see if it resets your patches. It should as long as your playback device is General Midi Standard.

You may also want to check your midi driver device and see what it is set to in Biab. Opt/Pref/Midi Device Driver

Trax
Posted By: silvertones Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/07/11 07:59 PM
Do a return to factory settings. It sounds like the instrument table might have gotten messed up.
Posted By: rharv Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/07/11 08:08 PM
Are all the tracks on the same MIDI channel?

That's what it sounds like to me.
Posted By: Benboom Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/07/11 08:28 PM
According to the MIDI Settings box the channels are set to the defaults, ie, Bass = 2, Piano = 3, etc.

I reset to factory original settings and the Microsoft Wavetable synth works okay (as okay as it can - that's why I don't want to use use it) with different voices for bass, piano, etc. But as soon as I select a soft synth everything goes to hell and anything that is not a Realtrack comes out with the same patch on the soft synth. I can't even find anywhere in the Synth window to select patches for different tracks - I tried the Lounge Lizard multitimbral piano synth too, but everything comes out with the same piano then - the one that comes up in the Synth DXi window. I have Halion but it does not display properly (15% of the window is cut off at the bottom) in BIAB and is unusable, which is a real drag.

I have tried all the MIDI drivers available in the MIDI/Audio drivers setup but nothing seems to work right except the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth, which I don't want to use. For input I have the choice of MIDISPORT 2x2 In A and 2x2 In B; for MIDI Output drivers I have a choice of No MIDI/Sound Output, Microsoft MIDI Wrapper, Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth, MIDISPORT 2c2 Out A and Ditto Out B. I have the Use VST/DXi Synth checked currently and also the Route MIDI Thru to MIDI Driver. I have tried various pulldown options under the Synthsizer/Sound card menu, but none of them made a difference and at the moment it is set to synth/sound card not listed.

It's quite frustrating.
Posted By: MartinB Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/07/11 08:51 PM
This happens with "Melody/Track Type -> Multi (16) -Channel" selected. Selecting "Single Channel" may rectify the problem.
Posted By: Benboom Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/07/11 09:09 PM
Thanks! That helps a lot; It is now playing a MS bass but a Lounge Lizard piano. The Lounge Lizard is 32 voice multitimbral but I can't get any of the other voices to play through it right now...still, this is a big step forward! Now I need to figure out how to get a multitimbral soft synth to accept input from the different channels. There doesn't seem to be any option for that - do I misunderstand?

EDIT: No, I was wrong. It sounded like a bass, but it was actually just an electric piano playing a rather convincing midi line. I switched the soft synth to an organ and suddenly all the midi tracks were playing the organ instead. I can only get one sound out of the multitimbral soft synths at a time, and yet the MS Wavetable synth seems to work. It is strange - certainly beyond me.
Posted By: Benboom Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/07/11 09:18 PM
If I understand correctly, you can only have one soft synth working at a time, right? Because I thought "Maybe I need to have a different one for each midi channel" but I can't figure out how to do that, either.
Posted By: Matt Finley Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/07/11 09:26 PM
Correct. In BIAB, you can have one MIDI sound software synth or hardware device. If you would like to work with more than one, you can take your song into RealBand.
Posted By: silvertones Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/07/11 09:27 PM
If the MS wavtable synth works then the soft synths should work. Do you actually own any soft synths?Biab does not come with any for 64bit except the Coyote WT synth.If you have 32 bit system you cabin stall the VSC DXi that comes with BIAB.Multitimbral is a function of the synth.If Lounge Lizard is all you have it has to be set there.
Posted By: Muzic Trax Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/07/11 09:35 PM
It sounds like the DXi you are using may be a non-GM standard synth? You can use Realband the same as Biab when it comes to generating parts. Plus, you can assign a different DX/VST on each track in RB as well.

Open your song from Biab in RB, save it in Biab and open it in RB. It should also load the style you are using Biab. You can generate any Biab part in RB.

Trax
Posted By: MartinB Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/07/11 09:47 PM
Quote:

I can only get one sound out of the multitimbral soft synths at a time, and yet the MS Wavetable synth seems to work. It is strange - certainly beyond me.



You'd need a GM compatible soft synth. Multitimbral does *not* mean GM compatible, whereas MS Wavetable *is* a GM synth.
Posted By: Benboom Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/07/11 11:20 PM
The PlugSound Global (06, in this case) is multitimbral and is designed specifically to be a replacement for the cheesy MS Wavetable.

Short clip: "This Plugsound provides a realistic and contemporary world sound library designed to substitute to the cheesy GM players, both software and hardware. The global collection faithfully follows the GM standard for sound classification. The acoustic and electric piano category is first, followed by Pitched Percussions, Organs, Guitars, Basses, Strings, Ensemble Sounds, Brass, Reeds, Pipes… The collection then moves on to Synth Leads, Pads and Composites, followed by Ethnic, Percussive and Sound Effect categories. Volume 6 then offers another 128 presets consisting of light versions of the original 128 GM presets. Finally, 7 GM drum kits are supplied, followed by 7 light versions."

And it works fine in other sequencers. But maybe it just won't work with BIAB, and Lounge Lizard won't work with it either? Does anybody here use a soft synth instead of the MS Wavetable? Which one?
Posted By: rharv Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/07/11 11:41 PM
Yes, many multitimbral synths work here on PGMusic products.

VSC DXi, Coyote Forte, Coyote WT, Synthfont, SFZ, Sampletank, and a bunch of others.

The synth in your previous post appears to need some kind of patch maps for multitimbral use.
What operating system are you using? 32 bit or 64 bit?

If 32 bit, try VSC DXi and/or VSTi (included), if 64 bit, there is a free trial of Coyote Forte included on your PGMusic product, give that a try so we know if there is is something 'wrong' with the system, or it's just a matter of setting those other synths up correctly.
Posted By: Benboom Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/08/11 12:52 AM
Hm...Sampletank is one of the ones that doesn't work here. I can get it to load sounds but it never plays them back in BIAB, or even in its own window (using its keyboard) in the selection window when I load it. It works fine in Reaper, though. I am using Windows 7, 64 bit. And I noticed that even after I load it once, it doesn't stay in the list of available soft synths.

I will try the suggestion about RealBand - I haven't used that at all yet.

Thanks for the suggestions.
Posted By: Benboom Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/08/11 01:08 AM
Results in RealBand are hilarious - they almost sound like they are playing in different time signatures. I think maybe it's a latency issue; I didn't set it up for ASIO drivers yet. I hope that's it, anyway. But I was able to use the Plugsound plugin to get a bass going without everything else playing bass notes, anyway. But RealBand seems so limited compared to BIAB in many ways because I don't know my way around (I hope that's why)...and yet another program to start learning. Yeesh.

EDIT: It wasn't the drivers. The bass is in a different world rhythmically.
Posted By: Muzic Trax Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/08/11 02:46 AM
You may need to utilize the re-channel midi data feature in RB when dealing with generating midi parts. I believe they assign channel 0 by default?

Edit (top of RB)-(Then select)Re-channel Midi data and select the start/end measure numbers so the channel data is entered at the beginning of your song. It may be from/thru, I don't have RB open at the moment. (Make sure you have a midi track selected/hi-lited first).

You assign each DXi/VST(i) at the beginning of EACH track in RB as well. There should be a little arrow in the first box to assign your instrument and FX chain for that track. Click the arrow and a box should pop up to assign those things there.

You can assign a separate DXi/VSTi for each track in RB. You can only assign a single one in Biab.

Once you have messed with how RB sets up each instrument and fx a few times, it begins to make sense, lol.

Some people get thrown with midi channel #'s vs track #'s as well. I always re-channel each midi track so I don't have two instruments playing on the same channel etc . . .

Trax
Posted By: Benboom Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/08/11 10:10 AM
Well, the Coyote demo seems to work; assigned parts play correctly in BIAB. I was hoping that my existing plugins would work; it's a financial death of a thousand cuts, this stuff. I guess I have 30 days of grace so I should be glad, though.

Thanks for all the replies. It appears that BIAB will only coexist with certain soft synths.
Posted By: MartinB Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/08/11 01:52 PM
Quote:

It appears that BIAB will only coexist with certain soft synths.



Sounds like a case for PG Music Support - potentially via some TeamViewer session. Keep us posted.
Hello Benboom,

Quote:

The PlugSound Global (06, in this case) is multitimbral and is designed specifically to be a replacement for the cheesy MS Wavetable.

Short clip: "This Plugsound provides a realistic and contemporary world sound library designed to substitute to the cheesy GM players, both software and hardware. The global collection faithfully follows the GM standard for sound classification. The acoustic and electric piano category is first, followed by Pitched Percussions, Organs, Guitars, Basses, Strings, Ensemble Sounds, Brass, Reeds, Pipes… The collection then moves on to Synth Leads, Pads and Composites, followed by Ethnic, Percussive and Sound Effect categories. Volume 6 then offers another 128 presets consisting of light versions of the original 128 GM presets. Finally, 7 GM drum kits are supplied, followed by 7 light versions."

And it works fine in other sequencers. But maybe it just won't work with BIAB, and Lounge Lizard won't work with it either? Does anybody here use a soft synth instead of the MS Wavetable? Which one?




Does PlugSound Global respond to patch changes? (program change messages). If not, then I suppose you'll hear whatever the default patch is (piano) unless you manually set up the patches yourself. In SampleTank for example, you need to choose the patches manually for each of the channels in the SampleTank interface.

I'm not familiar with how PlugSound works. I suspect you will be able to get it working, but it will require a little extra work to set your patches. If the samples are large and take a long time to load, there is documentation in the "C:\bb\BandStand Technical Notes" folder that may help you.

Let us know what you find.
Posted By: Benboom Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/08/11 07:03 PM
Thank you, Andrew, but so far I have not been able to get SampleTank to work by putting different samples in the different channels either. They load, and I can press the virtual keyboard but there's no audio output at all. As for the PlugSound plugin, I will continue to play with it as time allows. For right now, the Coyote plugin is working properly but I see that as an interim solution as I don't want to buy still more plugins.
Posted By: rikkisbears Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/08/11 09:31 PM
Hi,
I think the problem may be with some of the softsynths , not BIAB.
They may be multi timbral, but they don't respond to realtime bank & program changes or they take too long to load.

I tried for a couple of years to find a softsynth that would work with my One Man Band realtime arranger software ( basically a software arranger keyboard that loads Yamaha PSR style files) I ended up using soundfonts, the sounds changed in realtime. Since discovered Coyote WT ( included in BIAB 2011) & I bought Forte DXI & TTS1, they technically would also work.




Quote:

Well, the Coyote demo seems to work; assigned parts play correctly in BIAB. I was hoping that my existing plugins would work; it's a financial death of a thousand cuts, this stuff. I guess I have 30 days of grace so I should be glad, though.

Thanks for all the replies. It appears that BIAB will only coexist with certain soft synths.


Posted By: MarioD Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/09/11 12:44 AM
If you will notice on the Ultrasound web site that the PC system requirements states that it will run on XP. It does not say that it will run on Win. 7. You may want to contact them and inquire if it will run in Windows 7. That may be your problem.

I hope this helps.
Posted By: Benboom Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/09/11 09:49 AM
Well, it works fine under Windows 7 using Reaper.
Posted By: Benboom Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/09/11 11:09 AM
Trying Soundfonts now...and once again, while Soundfonts work fine in Reaper, once I try to load a voice in the sfz+ player plugin I get this error message: "There's no [sic] enough memory to load the selected Soundfont." (BTW, I have 6 gigs of RAM, although if BIAB is 32 bit it can't access it all. Still, I have enough.)

Edit: Turns out you have to set the sfz player to sr32 mode to get rid of that message. However, once I do that and load a bank of voices I get told by BIAB that I can't use the MIDI driver because it is in use by another program although nothing else is running. And the Coyote plugin works fine.

How do the rest of you get these to work?
Posted By: Mac Re: All midi voices have the same patch - 02/09/11 03:17 PM
That error message is known and there are some things in the BB FAQ that should help you:

Quote:


76. I get a message that a MIDI driver is "...installed properly but currently in use by another program", even though there are no other programs open.

This error will often refer to "Roland VSC", "GS Wavetable", or "No MIDI/Sound Output". First, you will want to find out if you are using ASIO or MME drivers (Opt. | MIDI/Audio Driver Setup | [Audio Settings] - Audio Driver Type)

If you are using MME drivers and the error is referring to a driver other than the 'Roland VSC', see this FAQ topic instead. (FAQ #111)

If you are using ASIO drivers, you may get this error if there is a conflict between the ASIO driver and a (non-DXi/VSTi) software synth selected in your driver setup. This happens on some computers when using the ASIO4ALL driver. To resolve the problem, make sure that the GS Wavetable and other software synths aren't selected anywhere in your setup. In other words, select a driver other than a software synth in the Band-in-a-Box MIDI Driver Setup dialog (output driver), and in the Windows control panel | Sounds and Audio Devices | Audio (MIDI Playback). Usually if you are using an ASIO driver in Band-in-a-Box, you will also be using a DXi/VSTi synth. Leave the "Use DXi Synth" box checked. You just need to select a different output driver, it won't affect the sound through your DXi synth. Ideally, select a driver for a hardware synth on your sound card or the MIDI OUT port on a MIDI interface.

If you are using MME drivers and the error is referring to the Roland VSC (the older stand-alone MIDI synth), see this FAQ topic instead.






Quote:


111. Why are there multiple instances of a single driver showing in my MIDI Driver Setup window?

Other symptoms: You might also get a message saying that a driver is "...installed properly but currently in use by another program".

Band-in-a-Box is having trouble making the proper connection to one or more MIDI devices that are installed on your computer.

If you have a MIDI interface installed and connected to an external synth, make sure the interface is connected to your computer and the synth turned on before you start Band-in-a-Box.

One of the Band-in-a-Box settings files may have become corrupt. Close Band-in-a-Box and delete the file "intrface.bbw" from your bb folder. Note that this will return many program settings to their factory defaults and Band-in-a-Box will create a new intrface.bbw file the next time you run it. You may wish to make a backup of this file before deleting it so you can restore your previous settings if this suggestion fails to resolve the problem.

If the previous suggestions didn't help, there is most likely a problem with the way one of your MIDI devices is installed. Try reinstalling the drivers for your sound card and MIDI interface, and uninstall any old MIDI devices that you aren't using.

One of the most frequent causes of this problem that we encounter is an improperly uninstalled Yamaha USB interface. Sometimes the uninstaller fails to remove a registry entry, which confuses Band-in-a-Box. To correct this problem you need to use the registry editor. The procedure isn't difficult, but since incorrect registry modifications can cause serious problems with your computer, you have to do this at your own risk.

Go to Start | Run, type "regedit" (without the quotes), and press OK. In the Registry Editor, navigate to the following location:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\ SOFTWARE\ Microsoft\ WindowsNT\ CurrentVersion\ Drivers32.

When you click on the Drivers32 folder you should see midi, midi1, midi2... entries on the right side of the registry editor window. Look for and delete entries that may refer to an interface that is no longer installed on your computer. If you had a Yamaha interface, you might see an entry similar to "xgusb.cpl". Deleting this should resolve the problem after a reboot.

112. Error message when trying to record audio: "Format unsupported. Your sound card is not allowing or set for 44K audio".



Hello Ben,

Quote:

Thank you, Andrew, but so far I have not been able to get SampleTank to work by putting different samples in the different channels either. They load, and I can press the virtual keyboard but there's no audio output at all.





Don't assume it's not working just because you don't hear anything when you press keys on the virtual keyboard... that feature might not work unless you're using ASIO drivers, with "ASIO Always On" turned on.

To choose an instrument, you would ignore the patches selected on the main Band-in-a-Box screen, and open the SampleTank control panel.

First click a Part/Channel in the left side of the window, then find and double-click on the instrument that you want to load into that part in the browser window (right-hand side).

(You may want to first write down all the channels that Band-in-a-Box uses for the different tracks, found in Opt. | Preferences | Channels).

You would have to do this for each song you load that has different patches. I believe that you can save your loaded instruments as various presets so you don't have to do as much work each time.

You might consider using the Coyote WaveTable synth while auditioning songs/styles to begin with, then select your instruments in SampleTank when you're finalizing the song.

At least, that's the say SampleTank worked when I tested it in the past...


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