Notation to key signature - PG Music Forums

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I'm sure this has been asked before. I did a search and came up with nothing. It would be nice if the advanced search dialog included "Search for exact phrase".

Anyway, Is there a default setting where notation can be entered in the key and not the chords? I can edit the notes but its kind of a pain when I transpose to a horn key and I have to go back and edit all the notes again.

Thanks much

RM

I'm puzzled by this question, since you would first select a key, then enter notes, then transpose. The accidentals change according to the key.

Could you please give an example of the problem, showing your steps?

Also, what version of BIAB do you have?

BIAB for Windows Version 2008.5 (265)

This is rather difficult to explain so I'll provide a couple of downloadable images.

This first image is the key the song is written in (E). Notice the sucession of "B" notes from the first measure into the second.

http://www.divshare.com/direct/15237737-1a4.JPG

This is the second image transposed to Gb for our sax player. The difference is self evident. Why the C#s when the key is Gb?

http://www.divshare.com/direct/15237755-6c1.JPG

Perhaps I'm doing this wrong. Thanks for the help.

RM

How do you horn players read all the flats?

Well it actually looks ok to me? In the Key of E, the starting notes are on the fifth or B. Then transposed to Gb the starting notes again are on the fifth, Db (don't know why you call it C# in this key?).

But maybe you have me confused.

Opps, never mind, I see the issue in the second bar, sure enuff, c# - maybe just to screw with the horn player....

Hi RM,

The images look like an enharmonic problem to me. For some reason, you have a mixture of the enharmonically equivalent keys of Gb and F#. Have you tried using F# for the transpose rather than Gb? (Technical note: when transposing for Bb sax, music theory books indicate that F# is the theoretical key of choice because it's the note a major second up from E whereas Gb is a diminished 3rd from E).

I don't know if you have tried this, but it's also possible to transpose using Opt | Preferences | Display. I have highlighted where this is located in the below image.

Hope this helps,
Noel

Quote:

How do you horn players read all the flats?

We don't read them. We all play by ear.....

Thanks Noel.

I tried transposing from the Opt>Preferences>Display and it transposed it to Gb. If I just change the key to F# it looks right.

Maybe I should take some theory lessons. Why are some notes flat when the key signature is sharp? (and visa versa) I thought that happened when the chord was different than the key. (eg. Key of G with a note in the measure with a Abmaj7)

RM

Hi again, RM,

I've noticed that enharmonic keys such as F# and Gb can sometimes give mixed results. Whether or not it's tied into the chords used in the bar, I do not know.

For example, in your song in Gb, you have an A7 chord in bar 2. In the diatonic scale of Gb (that is, Gb, Ab, Bb, etc.), the note A is a sharpened 2nd (compare the note D# in the key of C). A chord based on the sharpened 2nd of a scale is extremely unusual to use for harmony purposes. What is much more usual is a chord based on the flattened 3rd of the scale (i.e. Eb in the key of C). Part of the reason for this is that the flattened 3rd exists in some of the prominent forms of the family of C scales. I mention this because it might be that this is part of the logic behind BIAB; I'm not sure, though.

When transposing for sax, what I do is to ask myself what my transposition would be in the key of C. In your case, when you transposed from E to Gb (to get a full tone), from the perspective of C, this is equivalent to going from C to Ebb. When I realized that, it was easy to see that Ebb should really be its enharmonmic equivalent, D.

In the image below, I have highlighted an option that might be worth trying. You should exit and restart BIAB to get the change to take affect if you decide to try it out. Also, you can see that just above the highlighted area is another place for transpose options. You can find this under Opt | Preferences | Notation Options

Regards,
Noel

Quote:

I'm sure this has been asked before. I did a search and came up with nothing. It would be nice if the advanced search dialog included "Search for exact phrase".

Hi RM,

Actually, putting the phrase in quotation marks does the same thing. If I searched for "Key signature", I'll only get results with those two words together, not every article with "Key" or "Signature".

Thanks
Kent
PG Music

For the few occasions where this happens it does not matter to me. My wife, with decades of music (piano and band) and 2 music degrees and 1 education degrees it drives her nuts. So before I hand her music I scan it with my somewhat eagle eyes, wearing +2 cheaters (glasses) and spotting the dreaded sharp when it should be a flat, realize that I am rambling, but foray on, and finding a small bottle of whiteout, fix the dreaded 'mistake' and write her name on the top of the chart.

This small application of whiteout saves me no end of personal misery. I swear she's liable to hit me with flute one day. I used to just avoid certain periodic days to maintain martial bliss in all things, however menopause is permanent pms (in my case only), so I now diligently scan all her music.

My wife was hot when we got married, but now it comes in flashes.

We could have resolved this with one word, but isn't this more fun?

Quote:

martial bliss

Freudian slip?

Quote:

Hi again, RM,

I've noticed that enharmonic keys such as F# and Gb can sometimes give mixed results. Whether or not it's tied into the chords used in the bar, I do not know.

For example, in your song in Gb, you have an A7 chord in bar 2. In the diatonic scale of Gb (that is, Gb, Ab, Bb, etc.), the note A is a sharpened 2nd (compare the note D# in the key of C). A chord based on the sharpened 2nd of a scale is extremely unusual to use for harmony purposes. What is much more usual is a chord based on the flattened 3rd of the scale (i.e. Eb in the key of C). Part of the reason for this is that the flattened 3rd exists in some of the prominent forms of the family of C scales. I mention this because it might be that this is part of the logic behind BIAB; I'm not sure, though.

When transposing for sax, what I do is to ask myself what my transposition would be in the key of C. In your case, when you transposed from E to Gb (to get a full tone), from the perspective of C, this is equivalent to going from C to Ebb. When I realized that, it was easy to see that Ebb should really be its enharmonmic equivalent, D.

In the image below, I have highlighted an option that might be worth trying. You should exit and restart BIAB to get the change to take affect if you decide to try it out. Also, you can see that just above the highlighted area is another place for transpose options. You can find this under Opt | Preferences | Notation Options

Regards,
Noel

Noel

All this makes sense. When putting something like this together, with my limited knowledge of theory, it's not part of my thinking process.

Making that one change in the Notation dialog box corrected the mistakes, thanks.

RM