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Recently made the move of the VLT from my Desktop DAW to my laptop, as I prepare for transitions to a live setup which includes BIAB and the VLT only. My DAW offered countless options for routing due to additional hardware and software, but now I find my laptop with BIAB only, is more limited.

So here is the problem. I have the VLT setup as the input and output MIDI device as well as the Audio Device with MME drivers via the USB - audio playback is good. I want to route the MIDI to control harmony on the VLT with the BIAB - Options-Pref-Output Chords on Channel. This says it sends MidiChords to the output Midi Device, but I am using the CoyoteForte DXi which appears to superceed this output. When I disable the Dxi, the midi chords get sent to the VLT for harmony control- perfect, but, now I no longer hear any Midi since their is no synth. I tried the check box for "Route Midi through to Midi Driver", but no joy.

Here is how things look with the VLT in BIAB:

Most of my arrangements are all Real Tracks, but I do sometimes have a Midi melody playing. There must be a way to use "Options-Pref-Output Chords on Channel" and still hear DXi.

Any thoughts?? Up to this point I have determined that the VLT can do anything along side a good DAW, just a matter of configurations. Now, can it work only with BIAB? This has me stumpted.

Dan,
Can't be done with a soft synth.

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Dan,
Can't be done with a soft synth.

Wow, not what I was hoping to hear, but coming from you it does carry some weight since I know you have put in the time. I have passed this on to PGSupport since I know it is going to be a problem for me, any immediate workarounds I can think of, don't bode well. I may have to give Peter a call later to chat about this one.

The VLT does provide alternate connectivity so options may exist - just wish BIAB was a little friendlier when playing with others. Everything works so well on my Desktop DAW - but that kind of hardware and cabeling is not what I want to take on the road.

How are you doing it on the desk top? HW synth?

Quote:

How are you doing it on the desk top? HW synth?

Good question, I had thought it was working due to my dual soundcards (VLT and Audiophile 192) or because of my Samson C-Panel which routes multiple inputs to my monitors, or because of the cabeling nightmare I have on the floor under my desk, or maybe because I was just getting so darn good at this all

, .. but the fact seems to be that it don't work on my Desktop machine either. I can either send midi to the VLT to control harmony or use the DXi to hear the midi - I can't have it both ways when working in BIAB.

Prior to this my best success was with Reaper which would allow me to send either a single midi track or a single audio track to control harmony and then select and play any number of tracks while recording any number of tracks. Great for recording purposes in a DAW - but my live show is build around BIAB so at some point in time I had to move to the laptop and connect the VLT and work with BIAB alone. Not a good start...

Dan, maybe work in RB instead of BiaB, since it will open the biab files.

Quote:

Dan, maybe work in RB instead of BiaB, since it will open the biab files.

Yes, I was able to get it working in RB, but.... I just cannot use that program for more than 20 minutes with out pulling my hair out. There i said it, ... RB and I just don't think the same way.

I am still waiting for Peter himself to tell me that BIAB will not work with the VLT the way I have described above. I simply need to hear it from the man himself so I can find peace.

Quote:

Dan,
Can't be done with a soft synth.

I did some more checking and I may be wrong. The bad thing is I don't have a MIDI interface but here's what I did. Setup the Chord output for channel 5. Loaded an all MIDI style. Set the midi monitor to look at note on/off data on Channel 5. Sure enough everytime there's a chord change it outputs the chords and they show om the midi monitor. Now Looking at the DXi, TTS-1, for me there is no midi indication that it's receiving anything on channel 5. It has to be going somewher. My now guess is that it's going out the HW port. I'm thinking the reason it'll work with the "Use Dxi uncheck is that now ALL the BIAB midi channels are going to the VLT. When you check the "use DXi" box now ONLY the 'Chord Output" channel is getting to the VLT. In your case Channel # 1. Make sure the VLT is ALSO set to receive on Channel #1

John,
Thanks for sticking with it. Unfortuantely, I gave it a full day and I am now brain dead. I actually thought I may have got it working but I have been looking at so many blinking lights and tracking down midi channels, setting menu options in the VLT and literally hearing voices (although in harmony at times) in my head.

Gonna hang it up for a while. Will try again next week. In the meantime hoping Peter will weigh in on wheather or not this will work. Seems strange that a system so dedicated to MIDI can not sent a signal to two devices (VLT and the Dxi) at the same time.

BiaB uses one MIDI out port, been talked about a lot. *May* be able to use something like Loopbe or midiyoke to get more ports thru some clever trickery.

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BiaB uses one MIDI out port, been talked about a lot.

Never been an problem for me in the past. I guess you have to experience this limitation first hand in order to really appreciate what an issue it is

I have tried this, need to check something. I thought I had the ketron and the voicelive box working at the same time, but I use so little in the way of midi anything anymore that I don't remember.

That would be possible, John, since you could send the MIDI out the one BiaB port to the Ketron, and let the 'thru' function of the ketron send the MIDI to the voicebox. But using a softsynth port and a hardware port at the same time is in BiaB is a whole 'nother issue. It's one of the big reasons I prefer RB; so much more control and options. It's not as quick as BiaB but the tradeoff to me is a no brainer.

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That would be possible, John, since you could send the MIDI out the one BiaB port to the Ketron, and let the 'thru' function of the ketron send the MIDI to the voicebox. But using a softsynth port and a hardware port at the same time is in BiaB is a whole 'nother issue. It's one of the big reasons I prefer RB; so much more control and options. It's not as quick as BiaB but the tradeoff to me is a no brainer.

BUT what got me thinking is that you can have BIAB play a DXi and at the same time use a Midi controller thru BIAB and out one of the HW ports.So........

Got feedback from support who agrees - not doable.

So here is plan B - I will let you know.

LoopBe1
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LoopBe1 has a powerful shortcut detection to avoid MIDI feedback. If a feedback is detected, LoopBe1 will immediately mute its port, interrupt the loop and popup a message. After disabling the malicious MIDI through within your program you can easily enable LoopBe1 again at its systray icon.
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Plan B was a bust.

After 1 hour I could not for the life of me get it to work. Appears as a midi device in BIAB but as soon as I checked "Use Dxi" guess what... BIAB disabled output to the Midi Driver. I though it would have appeared in its own menu sysem from the Ssytem Tray, but only an option ot mute or unmute. No instrucitons on how to get it to work anywhere on the web.

Uninstalled.

Hi Dan,

The only solutions I can think of are to either use only RealTracks (which won't require the DXi Synth), or get a hardware sound module.

If you wanted the option of using MIDI styles, you could theoretically use that Loopbe1 driver to route all of the MIDI signals to another audio application, and use that application to route most of the channels to your DXi synth, and one channel to the VoiceLive, but I can't think of any suitable programs that support DirectX Plugins...

Kent
PG Music

Thanks Kent, I appreciate the input. I am thinking, thinking, thinking....

1) Can't leave BIAB - I would feel naked on the stage without its familar screen flashing the chords.
2) Acually use very little midi in my gigs - just occasional piano melody otherwise all RT's.
3) I do have an external hardware midi module somewhere around here, been so long since I seen it, I'm not sure where.
4) Don't really want to add more hardware and cables to my live sessions.
5) RB just don't work for me.
6) Could move the whole show to Reaper - but that goes against #1.
7) Only really planning on useing the VLT in one of two songs where I sing.
8) So for the one or two numbers which I sing why don't I play the melody instead of using midi?
9) Is there some way to switch the Dxi on and off during a song so for the intro verse it could play the midi melody and then turn off the dxi so the midi could control the harmony for me to sing a verse?

my head is starting to hurt, time to shut down for the night and take a pill...

I don't know if this is a workable idea for you but.... since BIAB has one audio track and you use only a piano melody midi track, could you record (render) that midi part to the audio track in BIAB and save it as part of that song file.... Then when you play the song file live you would route your VLT as usual.

Thanks Josie, I'll add that to the list

Dan,
OK my first impression was right. You are going about the virtual driver the wrong way. First off get rid of loopbone and download MIDIYOKE. Much better. I've used it for years. Once installed it'll show as a driver in BIAB. Now you need to use another program as a host. I used to use Sonar. In Sonar set up 2 midi tracks. One track will host Coyote Forte. Set it's input to receive on all channels. The audio out of the Forte to your sound card.
In the 2nd track have it receive on the channel that you've set in the "Chords Output" in BIAB. For this track choose the VLT as the output device. A little complex if your not real up to speed on hosting but it works well.
If you don't have Sonar I'll check out how it works with RB as a host. If you do have Sonar I may be able to set up a template to send you.

Once again use RB, as it has the same flashing chords screen that BiaB does. You can use the actual chords screen, or use the big lyrics window and it will display the chords there.

Thank God the weekend is here. I have been thinking long and hard during the week on all the options. Very thankful to all who have contributed. I now have a plan -

John

- like you said a little complex and I am operating at the limits of my comprehension now so I would like to avoid new stuff at this time if I can. Although, never say never.

Robh

- Don't make me say it again, no RB for me. However, pigs may fly someday.

Josie

- I do believe you get the golden ticket. You picked up on the fact that I almost exclusively use a single melody midi track and then all RTs cmbined wiht the fat taht I only plan to sing on a couple songs, so your option to creaste a single audio of the midi melody sounded best. I did a quick test and looks like it will indeed work. However, the render Midi track to audio does not follow the conditons of teh arrangemetn set up in F5 - just plays over entire song. So I will have to do some editing to get the melody only over selected verses.

Thanks much folks. I will test out more this weekend.

Easy - just use all RealStyles instead of midi styles during the gig. Set up midi to send to VLT and voila. No?

Ok, I tried. lol

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