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Posted By: Cerio BIAB 2012 - 12/05/11 08:43 PM
(post deleted upon request of original poster)
Posted By: Cerio Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/05/11 09:31 PM

I just would like to say that I just wanted to ask what I, as a customer would like to see in the product, that's all. But I deeply respect the company's policy, and I didn't wanted to sound rude; if I did (that's one of the problems of not being able to express yourself in your own language) I really apologize.
I don't think anyone should be offended with your statements and the way you phrased them. Folks might not agree with you, but you are always entitled to your respectful opinions. (oops, I do see that Peter removed his initial response to you, though!)

Is an interface overhaul overdue? I think it is, too. BUT .... in order to do an interface overhaul, the team would have to probably work on just that for six months to a year. Would they be able to make enough sales with a redesigned BIAB 2013 to justify the expenses? That is always the main question that needs to be answered ... and I think PG Music has been answering "no" to that question so far.

RealTracks -- first and foremost they have to deliver the "popular" ones, the ones that 90% of the audience wants. Right now it is pop, jazz and country (which covers a heck of a lot of ground).

Kevin
Well I haven't bought 2012 as yet so I don't feel the disappointment as you do.

There are numerous threads about the biab GUI and how it can be redesigned or not, and to be honest a lot of people are just happy with the way it is.

There have also been a few discussions about making biab appeal to younger people and I have thought about this too.

The truth of the matter is biab is mainly an older persons software (I can count myself in this group) a lot of retired people use it, very very few young people either appear or post on this forum even though they have been shown biab by seasoned users on here.

PGmusic has a loyal following of older users who mostly have the disposable income to upgrade twice a year. Why ruffle the feathers of the older users by introducing a new GUI that many of the users won't like?

And the user’s loyalty is second to none. PG could make a realtrack with the sounds of 2 empty coke cans and a lot of users would buy it.

Why would PG want to change a winning formula!

Just my 2 cents here.

Musiclover
Posted By: seeker Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/05/11 11:43 PM
As a person who's been intimately involved in "writing" software, original
and software tools, Coding and interfaces since early 70's.

I would have to say this:

First the target audience would be your primary users group, keeping in mind
the product audience growth.

Second, a piece of software, whatever the application is "Never Done".

You set goals(new functions), re-write of additional facilities to this software to a point
where you simply "Stop". Your goal points have been reached and your there.

Future growth, are the ideas presented by inhouse people and your customers.
Things you've learned rewriting/building the current product and
the "gorilla in the closet" New Technologies.

Above is intentioned to help understanding of what a piece of software is.
My opinion only, but to me a Program is an "entity", cannot touch and feel
it, but an entity.

Thanks,

Seeker
I would want the Coke cans to be half-filled for the B substyle......
Quote:

I would want the Coke cans to be half-filled for the B substyle......






or maybe use pepsi one's


musiclover
Quote:

There have also been a few discussions about making biab appeal to younger people and I have thought about this too.

The truth of the matter is biab is mainly an older persons software (I can count myself in this group) a lot of retired people use it, very very few young people either appear or post on this forum even though they have been shown biab by seasoned users on here.

PGmusic has a loyal following of older users who mostly have the disposable income to upgrade twice a year. Why ruffle the feathers of the older users by introducing a new GUI that many of the users won't like?

And the user’s loyalty is second to none. PG could make a realtrack with the sounds of 2 empty coke cans and a lot of users would buy it.

Why would PG want to change a winning formula!

Just my 2 cents here.

Musiclover




Excellent point. I'm 66 and I know a bunch of folks here are over 50. This is just this forum though I have no idea of the true customer base who never bother with this forum. I personally know 3 of those, I've suggested this forum to them and while they are loyal customers they have no interest in posting here.

I just bought a new Kurzweil PC3 and what struck me about it is how much they've added to the hip hop/euro techno side of things. I looked at dozens of youtube videos and other videos demoing this board and a lot of it maybe even the majority was stuff I've never heard of, have no interest in and know nothing about. I mean this thing has 16 arpeggiators and can use 32 layers per patch. You should hear some of the weird, far out incredible rhythmic soundscapes this thing can put out. I found one interview with one of the engineers and he said they specifically are aiming at a younger crowd. Kurz has been known for years as having the best acousitic instrument sounds around for what is now traditional rock, jazz, country plus classical but a bit weak in the other areas. My PC3 has a VA (Virtual Analogue) synth section that does some amazing stuff. I'll never use it but I admit it sounds awesome for that kind of thing. PG would have to do something similar in order to attract the kids and even then with the name, probably not. It's like when Buick tried to go after a younger crowd when all of us of my generation simply think of Buick as our grandfathers car and that's it. We wouldn't be caught dead picking up a date in a Buick.

The jury is still out as to whether or not Kurzweil will get a younger crowd or not and I have no idea if PG could make that transistion either. I think to even have a chance PG would probably have to create a whole new program and not call it Band in a Box bacause I doubt the hip hop generation would warm up to that name and I just don't see how all us older loyal customers would care for or buy Biab if it included all these heavy duty trance/techno/hip hop capabilities. I'm certainly not an expert in this stuff but I do read about it and listen to it from time to time. It is a completely different thing to create those kinds of techno computer generated riffs and other stuff from what Biab does now. I don't see how those things could coexist with Biab as it is but maybe I'm being myopic.

Bob
I think Musiclovers comments are very astute. I am turning 62 on Xmas Eve and have had success getting people my age to use BIAB. I have had no success with younger songwriters and musicians. It may partly be the out of date GUI in this iPhone age but I also think songwriters and musicians in their 20s and 30s are not into or schooled in traditional pop jazz song structures. To over-generalize, they like static, repetitive song structures that disfavor melodic and harmonic development. They can fire up some loops and jam over them and be done with it. (Not sure why Peter introduced loops in this edition--seems rather primitive when compared with the elegant RTs and RDs.)
These are very interesting insights. I had never really thought about the 12-bar blues and 32-bar ballad as being "archaic" structures in Western popular music, but that could be the case... Never underestimate the nadir of culture we are experiencing as education of the masses gets reduced to "whatever your property taxes can fund."

As harmony, and eventually melody become DE-accentuaized as musical elements, we are stripped to bare rhythm and rhyme ... So LONG culture as we know it !!!
Quote:



The truth of the matter is biab is mainly an older persons software

Just my 2 cents here.

Musiclover




how do you know? have you ran a statistic ?
Quote:

Yes, I'm just a little bit disappointed with the new version......




My God, just a bit ?

Here's my 3 cents...I have the 2011 version, I am 37, I write music professionally, and I think that the glass is half full, not half empty. Biab is not perfect, like everything else (perfectionism is just a sign of insecurity), but especially with v2012 the improvements, to me, seem notable....especially the 'simpler arrangement and realtracks' function, the mixer window, etc....things I actually wanted to see on Biab for years. You complain about the undo, etc...that's ridicolous, I remember when it wasn't even there.

Frankly I don't give a monkey about the interface, I don't have to sit and admire it like an antique painting. The interface does what it does....I have seen much worse. It's a good interface, and frankly, I think it's the last one of our problems. I actually don't want it redesigned, it would only burden us with relearn to locate again the endless options and functions. Life is too short for that.
Posted By: NOLAGuy Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/06/11 05:49 AM
Jazzmammal... I saw in your post that you bought a Kurzweil PC3! Just curious as to which model, the one with the Kurz 2500 synth built in? I realize this is a BIAB forum, not a Kurzweil one, but I'm still using a Kurz PC-88MX model and have been pondering whether to upgrade now or wait out to the next model.

Just to keep to the Forum topic.... I am 64 and have been using BIAB for over 10 yrs. I like for it's simplicity over other products I use like Sonar X1. I think that one can quickly learn enough to start using the package, plus it's sophistication allows for years of toying around with it.
Kids like my nephew and his band have:

Boundless energy;

they can carry gear all night and stay up until 3 a.m. and go to work for 8.
they have many new options past someone's garage, (like old warehouses in the near downtown area where someguy sleeps there and is a part time musician)
and
there's always a new guy wants in the band.

They don't make squat, it's still a hobby, and they play once or twice a week, and get themselves a once a month gig where the bar owner buys them drinks and runs a battle of the bands.

As to marketing, let's face it. The genius behind the band is a medical doctor and no dummy. His brother is an award winning jazz guitarist. They have contacts, mostly in the jazz world. Maybe though, they can run a few minutes up the road and get Elvis Costello to sit in. We'll have to leave out his wife Diana Krall though, the OP dude is tired of jazz.

Now I was recently in Europe for a month and I saw classical, jazz, and tyrolian bands. Mostly the latter, lederhosen and all. (I have a cool one with the filed antler horn made into a sort of shiv. Weird. But I ended up staying 2 days longer in Austria, and NEVER took the Sound of Music tour.

At the end of the day, wailing against the way it is does not get one anywhere.

In my not so humble opinion, as a sort of a backdrop to this I am helping deliver a course at the local university in Music Education. The course covers many genres, but goes away from a first year student's comfort zone. I get to do 1750 to 1950 on external influences on musicians, and the evolution of a musician from fool (ie. sitting with them in the kitchen and performing before or after him), to being considered an equal with the counts, dukes, princes etc. who where there employers, then jump to

Electronic computer based music, and the demonstration of that.

It's been a ride I won't do again, but I'm too tired to carry that on.
Quote:



The truth of the matter is biab is mainly an older persons software



I was young when I started using BIAB..... where did all those years go?

One way I judge the upgrade is how much time I spend enjoying the changes.

The mixer in 2011.5 was great, the 2012 use of plugins on tracks & the simpler way of adding midi from other styles is just brilliant.

I have loved BIAB from day one. I have lot's of music software with great interface, workflow etc. But I get more enjoyment out of BIAB.

Col
Posted By: Noel96 Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/06/11 09:32 AM
When I upgrade, I always ask myself ...

Is this worth $xx to me? So far, I've always answered with a resounding "yes indeed!" Another reason that I regularly upgrade is because I want to support PG Music and help to keep them making BIAB better and better.

Noel
Quote:

The truth of the matter is biab is mainly an older persons software




The group of musicians who first embraced MIDI were naturally enthralled with BIAB. Their kids, who grew up online hearing awful MIDI on websites played thru the PC sound card don't tend to like MIDI. But I predict that the Real Tracks and loops are a game changer. They bring the paradigm back to audio (and awesome audio at that!)

ALL (as in 100%) of the young musicians I've met through my musician son record audio, using loops, samples and actual playing of instruments. The current version and direction of PGMusic products is totally compatible with that.



Quote:

I have had no success with younger songwriters and musicians. It may partly be the out of date GUI in this iPhone age but I also think songwriters and musicians in their 20s and 30s are not into or schooled in traditional pop jazz song structures. To over-generalize, they like static, repetitive song structures that disfavor melodic and harmonic development. They can fire up some loops and jam over them and be done with it. (Not sure why Peter introduced loops in this edition--seems rather primitive when compared with the elegant RTs and RDs.)





I agree wholeheartedly. That IS the current state of music production. HOWEVER, all trends are cyclical, and theory-based music is to entertainment as the black suit is to fashion... it will never go out of style completely.

This is another way in which PGMusic products stand head and shoulders over the competition... while all the other guys are dumbing down their products to meet current trends, PGMusic continues to make software that caters to the sensibilities of real musicians.

When the smoke clears, PGMusic will still be standing, IMO.
followup to the "software for old guys" thought:

I've tried to get my Jazzer son interested in BIAB for years, and he has always declined, even when I offered to buy it for him. This year I sent him a link to the announcement of BIAB 2012 and asked him if he wanted it for Christmas...

he replied with an enthusiastic YES for the first time.

More than once over the past year when I played smooth Jazz and Fusion samples from BIAB, he commented that they sound better than his band. He's right, they do.

When I deliver it on Christmas, I'll take time to show him how to use it so he doesn't get frustrated and give up prematurely. He will be my first young person convert.

It has been said that a ship travelling at full speed takes time and distance to turn around. Paradigms don't shift quickly, but they do shift constantly. What was statistically true 5 years ago is not necessarily what will be statistically true 5 years ahead.

Real musicians of every age need BIAB and RB. They just don't all know it yet.
Personally, I think that BIAB has evolved nicely, and RealTracks have evolved incredibly. I do agree that I wish there were more RTs of styles such as Celtic, Classical, and musical percussion (as opposed to drums -- things like Hang Drum, Tambourine, and Hammer Dulcimer would be awesome).

Remember also that you can mix and match styles. This includes the many, many non-RT styles that can have RTs judiciously added to them. As PG showed with even the first RealDrums, just one well-added actual instrument can beef up the MIDI and add to its verisimilitude.

As to the interface, yeah, lots of different possibilities have been mentioned. But a lot of 'em would involve more programming than I think PG wants to get into. May I offer a suggestion? Changing the fonts (in Preferences/Display) can help a lot. (I changed the song title font to Arial Black, and the chord sheet font to MS Trebuchet.) So can changing the color scheme (in Preferences/Colors). And I have to go through and delete the buttons I never use (they're only one Reset Toolbar away). It ain't exactly skinnable, but BIAB can be tweaked to your taste.
Posted By: Beagle Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/06/11 01:09 PM
Quote:

a. Undo doesn't work well. If you are working with, say, a specific Realdrum and want to try another one, you have to memorize its name, because Undo doesn't work for these kind of things.



AGREED! This one has been an annoyance to me for all the years I've been using BIAB and it has not changed, that I can tell, since my first use of BIAB which, IIRC was ver 10.

Quote:

b. Screen resize doesn't work well, it only affect to the chords screen, not the the rest of the interface, including the notation window or the Lead Sheet Window.



Also agreed! This is a minor annoyance to me - but it is an annoyance and quite true. the window resize should work much better than it really does.

Quote:

c. Regenerating part of a solo with a real Track doesn't work well, the program (at this level) don't recognize musical phrases as a whole, and using this feature you get unmusical cutted phrases.



I don't use this feature a lot, so I don't know the true limitations or shortcomings for soloing. but I would add that regenerating melodies for portions of songs also acts the way you describe. sometimes they work correctly, others, not so much. usually if you let it regenerate the entire song it works OK, but not for portions.

Quote:

On the other hand, honestly and with all respect, I was expecting a whole completely different sets of Realtracks, other than those in Country, Jazz and Pop/Rock reigns. Don't get me wrong, I love jazz and Pop realtracks, and I use them extensively in my own work (personally I find country styles less useful, because here in Europe Country Music is usually seen like a kind of american "folk" music, but I understand (and respect) that an important part of PG Music customers use and love these styles). But I think that Country, Jazz and Pop / Rock styles are already well covered, at least in comparison with other subrepresented genres, like Latin, Reggae, Soul or even Funky Music.



I would like to add Contemporary Christian and Contemporary Gospel to that list.

Quote:

Again, don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of PGMusic products and a very satisfied customer who always recommend BAIB to a lot of young people who unfortunately not always find the program interesting just because it's difficult to get used to, because the kind of music it's focused on, or just because it's not very visually attractive. I really think it's an unique product that produces much better, musical and realistic tracks than any other VSTi on the market. It's just that I believe that with some rethinking about the core program, its interface and the integration of its features could be still much easier, attractive and better.



While I agree that the GUI could be better andmore attractive, easier to use, improved workflow, I'm not necessarily advocating a complete overhaul. some workflow improvements would be nice, the things mentioned above I think are crucial.

I'll also add that I would love to have some other improvements like TRUE 6/8 time (I hate the "suggested use of 4/4 in place of 6/8!), and other TRUE odd time signatures. Honestly I can't understand why at least 6/8 is not truley implemented.

Another improvement that I think is important would be allowing for Roman Numeral modulation display. I think we should be able to change keys in a song and have the Roman Numeral notation reflect that! It really throws me off when I change keys, but the Roman numerals are still in the original key!

Just my 2 centavos.
Posted By: MikeK Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/06/11 01:12 PM
Quote:

I'll also add that I would love to have some other improvements like TRUE 6/8 time (I hate the "suggested use of 4/4 in place of 6/8!), and other TRUE odd time signatures. Honestly I can't understand why at least 6/8 is not truley implemented.




That's a big one with me as well. Thanks for mentioning it.

Mike
Posted By: Cerio Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/06/11 02:38 PM
Quote:

You complain about the undo, etc...that's ridicolous, I remember when it wasn't even there.




Honestly, I don't see your point, but well, I knew that this thread wasn't going to make me "popular" here Now, I'd like to clarify a couple of things:

1. Redesigning the interface has nothing to do with painting the whole interface with fancy colours to attract kids, but with making things easier and more logical for the serious end user.

2. I don't think that BIAB is mainly an older persons software, I think it can attract (I'd say it SHOULD attract) any serious musician, because it is the perfect tool for studying any instrument.

3. There are many uses of the program. I, as a working musician, have used it always as the perfect tool for practising my instrument, in this area I have everything a need (three or four sets of jazz realtracls) since years. But since the arrive of Realtracks, I also use the program as the perfect tool to make backing tracks for my wife, a professional singer, and in this area I find that the program really shines on the Jazz, Pop and Country areas, where are a lot of very good sounding realtracks, but lacks a little bit of versatility (realtracs-wise) in other genres. Just MHO

Havig said that, let me tell you another story After many years as a Cubase user, I've just changed to another DAW (I prefer not name it in order avid too much "spam") in the last month. I was VERY used to Cubase's GUI, and a couple of times I tried with another DAWs (Logic, Sonar) just for curiosity, but my conclusion was always the same:

"With Logic, I can do more or less the same things that Cubase, but in a different way. The effort of learning Logic it's not worth."

My experience was different with the new DAW. Its basic interface is much simpler, and at first everything seems too strange, because it seems to be no tools in the screen!. But after 10 minutes, you start to see the logic behind that; after 20 minutes you discover that everything is there, but it's hidden until you need it; and after just one hour you are wondering why nobody has invented this thing before. Some examples:

1. In Cubase there are a lot of track Types (MIDI, Audio, Track, Folder, Group, Marker, Play order, Video...); Here, just one. You want it to be MIDI? Just record some midi notes on it. You want it to carry video? Just drag&drop some video track over it...

2. You can show and hide every element of the UI within a single menu, and arrange the ones you use most on TABS, so you can organize and arrange the screen easily at your own way, and everything what YOU need is at your disposal.

3. By default there are no editing tools (but you can work with them if you want to) Instead, you use right button context menu and keyboard shortcuts to perform all edits. You don't like default keyboard shortcuts? You can define them at your own way.

4. By default there are just very few (and small) icons on the screen: they occupy valuable space on the screen; most of the time you just don't need them; you can get the same results with right button, keys shortcuts, or menus; they are redundant.

5. There is no help file, because you don't need it. Instead you have a very powerful command finder. You don't remember how to, say, normalize a track? Just write "normalize track", then press "run", and you're done. Do you use this command very often? Just assign it a custom keyboard shortcut to it.

6. And (last but not least) all elements of the GUI are by default painted with nice different gradiations of the same colour, which doesn't distract attention out of the important elements (tracks and other elements that carry musical information) and helps to not getting tired after hours in front of the computer.


You get it. Everything there is customizable, even the menus (you can hide the commands you are not going to use, add your own ones or put the ones you use most on the top of the list), and that means that if you want to organize your workspace at your own way you can do it, if not, just leave it as is. I know that a DAW and BIAB are very different animals, but I think that some of these ideas could be applied to BIAB, for example:

1. Instead of having MIDI Styles, RT Styles, Realtracks, Realdrums and Midi Instruments (wich is kind of confusing for new users), it would be nicer working just with Instruments (MIDI, Realtacks, and Realdrums) and Styles (Collections of Instruments)

2. It would be nice having a single "View" menu, from where you can easily hide and show any of the elements of the GUI (btw, I was just trying to hide the main piano section over the icons and didn't find the way to do it) And it would be nice that if you hide some elements (for example, the icons), the rest of them would resize properly.

And so on...

Just my two cents.
In a forum it's difficult to make statements and not sound like you mean it like 100% that's the way it is. The real world is not like that. Certainly there are lots of younger people like Avatars who are schooled musicians and use or should use Biab. The question is is there enough of them? One bar I work at occasionaly is in a country club. Mostly an older crowd who like a lot of classic rock/country stuff just like what we're talking about. We get away with some jazz for the first set but that's it. One of the bartenders is a 22 year old college student and he's a big jazz fan and loves our jazz set but as far as I can tell he's about the only one in that bar who does. The other gig I've talked about here before is in a nice Italian restaurant right down at the beach in Hermosa. We play jazz from 7-10 on one or two Fridays a month then the place turns into a thumping hip hop disco. Same thing, there's a few in the crowd who like what we do but the majority are simply waiting for the party to start.

And the really sad part is just my opinion based on very limited observations, I think that small educated music crowd is shrinking in spite of all the music students coming out of various colleges. The thousands of those are far far outweighed by the hundreds of millions of mindless thumper/techno fans. It's not that a lot of the hip hop artists themselves are not educated musicians they are it's just the stuff they produce is not what any of us would call "real music". Fifty years from now all the stuff we know and love will still be around but only in schools and occasional concerts, that's it. Fifty years? Actually, probably twenty years.

Bob
Posted By: Beagle Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/06/11 04:11 PM
Cerio,
I would argue, however, that BIAB is not a full fledged sequencer like Cubase and doesn't claim to be.

and I, for one, am not necessarily in favor of making it one. that's not it's purpose. I use BIAB and export its tracks into sonar because sonar is a full fledged sequencer. BIAB creates the MIDI and real tracks to the song I want then I manipulate those tracks in the sequencer. BIAB performs one function, sonar performs the other - they compliment each other, but neither has the full capabilities of both programs.

Customization of the GUI is not something I would vote for - it's not necessary, IMO. enhancements, yeah, I could live with a few enhancements - but not turning it into a fully customizable sequencer. that's not what I own BIAB for. if that's the direction BIAB goes then I have no need for it, I have sonar.

your next points - 1) no, I don't agree with that either. yeah, it can be confusing, but take the time to learn it just like any other tool.

2) some customization like this I would find useful and might use. it's not a priority for me for BIAB, tho.

functionality is top priority for me. like the items I listed above.
CFCBOC I just sent you a PM. I didn't want to hijack this thread with a Kurzweil review. If some of you want me to post a review let me know and I'll start a new thread in the OT forum.

Bob
Please, I am not criticizing anyone's observations in this thread. I will merely add my own, that I am delighted with version 2012 particularly because several of the new features are a direct result of user requests made in the Wishlist and refined in the beta testing.

PG Music is an amazingly responsive company to its users in this way, and they have earned my support for this reason alone.
Rah rah Matt. I agree. Been lurking in this thread and mus admit that the complaints are not new and in my opinion not any I have. I don't consider the interface to busy. I like everything on top in 2 or 3 different places if that's the way it is. I also don't think that BIAB is supposed to take the place of a full fledged DAW. It could be argued that Real Band is supposed to but I haven't even begun to get my head into it as I have Pro Tools and Sonar X1 and Reaper to get my heard around first. I also agree that PG has done an amazing job of answering wish lists items that fit into the overall scheme of what BIAB is and always has been, an auto generating accompaniment tool. I also appreciate the fact that when I have a real question that doesn't seem to be answerable on the forum I can call a support number that has actual techies on my program that actually help me. Another huge plus is the fact that very seldom do I have to wait a long time on hold to get the help I need. (Except when they are having a sale and they do tend to get backed up then)

My only real complaint is the development team might be to good. I know the best and most econimiclal way to update is once a year but every 6 months they come out with something I can't wait 6 months to get my hands on and they end up getting into my pockets every summer and every Christmas. Guess I'll just have to get used to it.

BTW just found this in a tutorial:

The basic difference between Band-in-a-Box and other accompaniment software in the marketplace today is that Band-in-a-Box is a random pattern player as opposed to a Multi Track MIDI recorde

Once this is accepted the rest kind of falls into place.
I will say that there are a few small changes that might make sense. Maybe a somewaht better and more organized tool bar,/menu system. But big changes could be bad. Just look at the hard feeling at Sonanr Forum, over the GUI changes between 8.53, and X1. For the most part it is all still here, but people have a hard time finding it.

Slow incremental refinements maybe, but a big face lift i vote no.

For one thing BiaB at it's core is really a scratch pad type program, more of a utility type program. Sure some use it for teaching, and others learning, some for live playing, and others song building. The problem is that there is so many uses, that it amkes changes difficult.

In a True DAW like Sonar or RB, or Reaper, it makes more sense to have a slick easy to use GUI, as it is for a more targeted audience. Even so i want form over flash.

But we can't completely dismiss Cerio, as a little bit of uncluttering might be nice. I have faith that the PG team will address that if and when they feel the need.
Cerio,
Seems like you're quite concerned that we don't have an undo available for choosing a RealDrums. That's a one-liner, I will add it to next patch.

As for wanting "more Reggae, Soul, and Funk" - have you checked what we DO have available (all RealTracks) - 2 Reggae full bands, 2 Full Soul Band (60's, 70's), and 2 Jazz Funk full bands (top LA players Jeff Lorber, Alex Al (Michael Jackson's bass player, etc.). And many of those are new with 2012.
For example, why complain that you want more "soul", when we have just released a full soul 60's band of RealTracks with 2012?
There's lots of demos of the Soul 60's and Jazz Funk on this page ...
http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.realtracks.htm

Here's a demo of a hybrid (Soul-Funk) , with the Soul tracks mixed with a funk piano (Jeff Lorber) and bass line (Alex Al).
http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos/_solfunk.wma

A "pure" JazzFunk demo (with Eric Marienthal on Sax (from Chick Corea's band):
(entire demo generated from the chord progression, including Sax Solo, no processing outside of Band-in-a-Box, just type in chords, press PLAY, then save by a drag and drop from Band-in-a-a-Box to Explorer as a .wma file)
Http://demos.pgmusic.com/audio/allstyledemos/_jbreeze.wma

These are all from 2012, the 'point' being...plenty of soul and funk added in 2012!
Posted By: cressjl Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/06/11 07:01 PM
Quote:

...I am delighted with version 2012 particularly because several of the new features are a direct result of user requests made in the Wishlist and refined in the beta testing. PG Music is an amazingly responsive company to its users in this way, and they have earned my support for this reason alone.



I will fully agree...if you have a legitimate wish that can be accommodated in any way, then expect that PG Music will find a way to make it happen.

I have been pleased to find several of my suggestions implemented in the very next release. I even made a crazy suggestion one time that real-sounding Pedal Steel would never be achieved from MIDI, and would have to be pieced together somehow using real instrument sounds. Well, RealTracks came about, and Pedal Steel was one of the first RealTracks that PG Music offered!

You (in general) too can see your ideas implemented if you follow three simple steps:

1. UNDERSTAND: Get to know the software inside and out. Okay, you don't have the source code, but you do have the help files. Learn the software thoroughly so that you know both its capabilities and its limitations. This will help you in the next step. By the way, it doesn't hurt to learn about PG Music's market, both the competition and the committed user base (as discussed in earlier posts).

2. DREAM: No idea is too crazy to be considered, as long as there is a way that it can be implemented in the base engine. I never expected TC Helicon harmonies to show up; in fact, I thought that the whole idea of an audio track was crazy, but someone really wanted it, and here it is! Dream about how BIAB can be improved in order to simplify reaching some end goal, or how a wholly new feature would add benefit and expand the software's capability (and market share [would really be welcomed!]).

3. EXPLAIN: Use a pistol, not a blunderbuss! If you can't be specific, then go back to step one. Don't gripe at Peter if he doesn't respond because you are too general. Anybody can be a critic--it takes work to be constructive. Instead of saying, "The whole interface needs an overhaul..." say rather, "It would be nice if these items in this menu were grouped under a different heading like this..." Show that your idea can add value, explain it well, and your idea will show up; just wait and see!
Posted By: pwarren Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/06/11 08:24 PM
Quote:

3. EXPLAIN: Use a pistol, not a blunderbuss! If you can't be specific, then go back to step one. Don't gripe at Peter if he doesn't respond because you are too general. Anybody can be a critic--it takes work to be constructive. Instead of saying, "The whole interface needs an overhaul..." say rather, "It would be nice if these items in this menu were grouped under a different heading like this..." Show that your idea can add value, explain it well, and your idea will show up; just wait and see!




Well said. There have been so many posts saying 'GUI needs a complete rewrite'. I posted a thread on the Open Topic forum basically asking people what they really meant and most answers boiled down to colors and fonts both of which can be changed. The other big item was the tool buttons which, again can be re-configured.

So I agree with you completely. People should narrow their requests to specifics. It's so much more helpful.
I don't need the gui totally changed BUT

I've been on this soapbox before,

Make a gizmo like the volume tone control sliders that is basically a player. The player would see all the songs in a directory structure from 1 to infinity. So if you start it on set one it goes to 2 then 3 etc.

90% of the buttons I don't use, just let me hotkey to developer mode from the player window and away we go.
There have been a few times over the years when I had a question about various checkboxes, and wondered about the hierarchy of which controlled which, so I would not mind some work on the menu structure and dialog boxes to eliminate duplicate places for settings. I'm thinking about things like transposition, and global overrides versus individual settings. But there are not many of these, and I realize, like website design, that sometimes it is easier if you can find the same dialog in different ways.

For example, during the beta testing, I requested we have a "Save Current Style" command added to the place I would expect to find it, in the Styles menu. That was done, and it's in version 2012. I also thought it could be in other places, including in a new icon, as it was already in the RealTracks picker dialog. So, I am not even consistent in what I think I want. Thus, I am content to just raise questions, and then leave design issues to PG Music.
Please start new threads for new topics. This thread has many different topics now.
Posted By: Cerio Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/06/11 11:03 PM
Quote:

Cerio,
Seems like you're quite concerned that we don't have an undo available for choosing a RealDrums. That's a one-liner, I will add it to next patch.




Nice to hear that, Peter. Just to clarify, that specific problem with Undo was only an example, there are other situations where undo doesn't work, for example when changing realtracks, when changing styles from the stylepicker, or when introducing a "Section letter" in the Notation Window.


Quote:

People should narrow their requests to specifics. It's so much more helpful.




I gave some specific ideas in my previous post, and here are another ones: allow custom shortcuts for specific tasks or even combination of tasks; implement a Command finder, as well as an Options finder (actually there are so many options that is difficult even for experienced users finding the one you're looking for); allow the customization of menus; implement a marker system within the main chord window to allow easy identification of parts when working with structures:



Finally, let me say that it's not the first time that somebody suggest in this forum some changes in the program, or points out a bug, to get some unfriendly or sarcastic answers from other members of the forum. Frankly, I've never seen the point about this kind of "deffensive" attitude here: pointing out bugs or suggesting ideas is an important part of software development, many software companies (like, in fact, PG Music) allow and encourage bugs reports on their official forums because there is (or should be) nothing wrong with it, and the other members of the forum receive this kind of posts without any problems. Anyway, If I sounded rude in some moments I really apologize, because (believe me) it was never my intention being rude nor "ranting and raving" about the software (in fact, I'm addicted to BIAB), I just wanted to point out some weak aspects of the program to try to help making a great software still better.
Posted By: pwarren Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/06/11 11:49 PM
People don't seem to get upset when specific and sensible requests are made for changes or fixes. However, I have seen people get upset when someone comes on the forum and slams the software with comments like 'this program needs a complete re-write' or 'it's so ugly I can't use it' etc.

I don't think anyone thought you were being rude or anything. I just think people wanted you to narrow your comments to specifics which you have.

The idea for section markers isn't a bad one BTW. I'm not sure if it can be easily implemented since the cells on the chord sheet are already pretty much used up. But you never know, PGM have amazed us all before.
Nicely put Pwarren
Posted By: cressjl Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/07/11 05:10 PM
Quote:

...I don't think anyone thought you were being rude or anything. I just think people wanted you to narrow your comments to specifics which you have...



Right on...I wasn't even responding directly to Cerio, but to all who might read this thread. I hope that my post is received as general help in getting new ideas into an already outstanding program. All ideas are welcomed, I'm sure!
Your request Cerio for song section markers is something I've asked off and on for years. I don't understand why that is not available unless it's just something in the code that prevents it. Every fake book I've got has A,B,C etc. sections. As it is it's not too big a deal because when I print out a fake chart from Biab I've already laid it out in such a way that I can write those in along the left margin but it should be part of the program.

Bob
Posted By: Cerio Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/07/11 08:33 PM
Quote:

Your request Cerio for song section markers is something I've asked off and on for years.




That request should be at the top of my wishlist, with the ability to regenerate parts on any track.
Posted By: Skyline Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/07/11 09:13 PM
Quote:

...The truth of the matter is biab is mainly an older persons software (I can count myself in this group) a lot of retired people use it, very very few young people either appear or post on this forum even though they have been shown biab by seasoned users on here.

PGmusic has a loyal following of older users who mostly have the disposable income to upgrade twice a year. Why ruffle the feathers of the older users by introducing a new GUI that many of the users won't like?
...Why would PG want to change a winning formula!

Musiclover




Because a company that only caters for an ageing and therefore shrinking user base, ignoring the need to replenish and grow its appeal to younger (below 50?!) potential users is going to perish.
(I turned 63 this week in case anyone was wondering).
Quote:

When I deliver it on Christmas, I'll take time to show him how to use it so he doesn't get frustrated and give up prematurely. He will be my first young person convert.






Hi Pat,

That's excellent! I have a suggestion too. One of my favourite new features is the "Band" button, and I think it'll be a good place to start for beginners. Veteran users love the zillions of styles in the stylepickers, but my guess is that it can be a bit daunting for beginners. The Band button is a quick and easy way to get the most popular styles in an obvious way.

Thanks for spreading the word!
Posted By: Cerio Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/07/11 11:12 PM
The new video that has been just released has convinced me. Great video! Seeing the new features in action give you another completely different perspective about them and their enourmous posibilites than just reading a list of new features. The Easy selection of Drum Grooves, the support of Loops and (specially) the new Individual MIDI Tracks and its built-in MIDI Tracks Finder are going to be a big help to me, a real a time saver. My god, I need to upgrade RIGHT NOW!!! (Btw, could anybody delete my first post here )
Cerio, to be honest I thought you were disappointed because you had already upgraded and weren't impressed by what you saw-now I know differently!

Skyline very good points-love your music and have visited your website often-as someone who is over 50 we are only chickens yet

musiclover
Hi
what I'd luv to see is some sort of database with song titles & suggested styles that work with it. ( even if it's not part of the program)
The style picker with it's song examples is good, but it takes me forever to go thru the styles till I find one that works, and I'm always thinking there might be a better choice than the one I'm using.

Anyway I luv the new upgrade. I'm more of an arranger keyboard user, but BIAB realtrack styles are brilliant, some of the styles work better for certain songs than what's available on my $5k keyboard.

The 2 together are a brilliant combination.






Hi Pat,

That's excellent! I have a suggestion too. One of my favourite new features is the "Band" button, and I think it'll be a good place to start for beginners. Veteran users love the zillions of styles in the stylepickers, but my guess is that it can be a bit daunting for beginners. The Band button is a quick and easy way to get the most popular styles in an obvious way.

Thanks for spreading the word!


Posted By: alan S. Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/08/11 01:12 AM
I wonder if the 2012 edition has managed to fix certain bugs I flagged up in the past. Like minor riffs playing over Maj7b5 chords. Or the shell voicing option in the style wizard .. just two that come to mind.

My feeling is that certain wish list items will be taken up.. as long as they don't involve any serious re-write of the midi engine. That's why I think requests like 8 chords to the bar or the ability to add/define new chords to the database stand next to no chance of ever being implemented no matter how often they come up.

That being said I still enjoy using the program for what it is.

Regards

Alan
regarding the request for more configurable menus:

as I watched the 2012 new features video it occurred to me that while other music software companies are making their menus more configurable, BIAB is all about making the MUSIC configurable.
Posted By: RickeG Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/08/11 03:36 AM
Cerio,
I have to share your position on the points you made. It was good that you pointed out these issues such as the Real tracks not looking at the phrases as a whole but in chunks even so much as lose its musical bearings as it hits off notes and the like as well as the screen refresh issues like when you are changing repeats and the like. I get disoriented because once the repeat is added the entire chord window changes.

Like you, I agree that this is a very good product. And I endorse it to any of my students that have gotten to the level where i feel they can navigate it. However, like you said, it would be wise to do a cleanup to make the UI more manageable. There needs to be consideration given to making the UI more user friendly. And sometimes less is more in most instances. I do like what MS has done with the Ribbon concept. It is one way to make options available in categories and yet, remove much of what I call "screen noise" in that of blinding arrays of buttons and text.

However, I do like the roll over offering definitions and examples of the button or option you are considering using. That is a very intuitive feature and has helped me a lot.

And yes, I too, would love to see tracks go into the Funk, and more selections for Latin outside of the jazz options. I agree that as I am pitching this to a younger audience it would be wise for the developers to consider in order to sustain over time they are going to need to consider the genres that pique their interests too. There will come a time where my interests in jazz and rock will take a back seat to another hybrid of styles.

It looks like I will need to continue waiting before my next upgrade as these issues have not been addressed in the current version. Bummer.
>>> The new video that has been just released has convinced me. Great video! Seeing the new features in action give you another completely different perspective about them and their enourmous posibilites than just reading a list of new features. The Easy selection of Drum Grooves, the support of Loops and (specially) the new Individual MIDI Tracks and its built-in MIDI Tracks Finder are going to be a big help to me, a real a time saver. My god, I need to upgrade RIGHT NOW!!!


Glad to hear it Cerio! Yes, Tobin @ PG Music did a great job with the video!

>> (Btw, could anybody delete my first post here
Sure. I'll keep the thread alive, and just delete the first post.
I too am a little disappointed. I wanted the software to allow me to pretend to play, and fix all the bad notes. Sadly I'm still capable of the bad notes and have to live with that.

I played a b natural about 8 times this afternoon while the whole group was on B flat, and I got it for the last verse. I had a horn with the bell facing my wife and I'm sure she was traumatized. What to do? She had every level of piano, then 5 years of music and 1 of education, and I took timber scaling. Bad decision on my part, but I can tell you how many board feet in a white pine sawlog. Great talent that. (Or not).
Quote:

Hi
what I'd luv to see is some sort of database with song titles & suggested styles that work with it. ( even if it's not part of the program)
The style picker with it's song examples is good, but it takes me forever to go thru the styles till I find one that works, and I'm always thinking there might be a better choice than the one I'm using.






I've often thought the same thing, but... consider the flexible music system that BIAB is... we can apply any style to any song and get a totally fresh version of it! So, in the final analysis, almost every style could be used in every song, depending on the arrangement!

But if you're talking about finding the most suitable style for a cover song, I'm sure a lot of people would like the same thing. Might be a good group project, because its usefulness would grow exponentially if many people participated in making it a dynamic list.

I'm not sure of the best way to execute it. Maybe we could start with a group brainstorm? .
Posted By: alan S. Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/08/11 12:30 PM
Quote:

I too am a little disappointed. I wanted the software to allow me to pretend to play, and fix all the bad notes. Sadly I'm still capable of the bad notes and have to live with that.

I played a b natural about 8 times this afternoon while the whole group was on B flat, and I got it for the last verse. I had a horn with the bell facing my wife and I'm sure she was traumatized. What to do? She had every level of piano, then 5 years of music and 1 of education, and I took timber scaling. Bad decision on my part, but I can tell you how many board feet in a white pine sawlog. Great talent that. (Or not).




B natural against Bb would be okay in some contexts! Might not sound good on a Christmas Carol ..maybe a cover version by Albert Ayler or John Coltrane. They'd surely find a way to make it fit!

Regards


Alan
Posted By: alan S. Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/08/11 12:42 PM
Incidentally talking about fixing bad notes, here's a link to a program that's taken BIAB's Wizard Playalong feature to the next level. If it's half as good as its cracked up to be it might be worth an investment.

Hotz Midi Translator

What it shows once again is that PG could, if it chose to, develop the midi side of BIAB to new heights. It still has a much larger database of midi styles than Real Tracks even if it hasn't released any new ones for some time. Time to catch up now on what is still possible with midi I'd have thought.

Regards

Alan
Hi Pat,
that would be wonderful, if we could get anybody interested.

I sort of lost track of this thread, there's so much activity on the site at the moment, it's hard to keep up. haahaa


Quote:

Quote:

Hi
what I'd luv to see is some sort of database with song titles & suggested styles that work with it. ( even if it's not part of the program)
The style picker with it's song examples is good, but it takes me forever to go thru the styles till I find one that works, and I'm always thinking there might be a better choice than the one I'm using.






I've often thought the same thing, but... consider the flexible music system that BIAB is... we can apply any style to any song and get a totally fresh version of it! So, in the final analysis, almost every style could be used in every song, depending on the arrangement!

But if you're talking about finding the most suitable style for a cover song, I'm sure a lot of people would like the same thing. Might be a good group project, because its usefulness would grow exponentially if many people participated in making it a dynamic list.

I'm not sure of the best way to execute it. Maybe we could start with a group brainstorm? .


I actually found very strange the inclusion of Amplitube. It's a useful vst if you want to record your guitar, but why would anyone choose a realtrack DI guitar with Amplitube rather than a realtrack with the recording from a real tube amp. I much prefer the latter, but hey...
Quote:

I too am a little disappointed. I wanted the software to allow me to pretend to play, and fix all the bad notes.




I like to think that Biab is a program for musicians. B natural will sound good over Bb only if you know what you are doing, e.g. will sound good on top of a B7...

sorry I am just tired to hear of people who pretend that they can make music by pressing buttons. If you want to be a musician, put some work in it, learn to play, and THEN use a program like Biab.

Biab is a tool, an aid to make quick demos, not some sort of virtual superbrain that will fix your shortcomings as a musician.

Sorry for the though love, but it's time for reality check, people. Stop pretending and get real, making music is fun if you want to sing a song with your friends, but if you want to MAKE music, you have to put your backside in gear, no ifs and no buts.

That said, PG Music made a great job with this program, and the new features are making me seriously consider the upgrade.
Posted By: JBlue7 Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/10/11 10:12 AM
Hi All,
I'm certainly glad I waited for the video demo of the new features, especially the Amplitude VST proceedure. Usually I plunge ahead and take ages trying to work things out. Anyway loving the new features and now my Studio is virtually computer based the Guitar/Amplitude gives me so many more possabilities when creating backing tracks for my own songs.

Yes I agree with avatars my BAND [biab] as I call it, is only another tool, albeit a fantastic one to make your own music or just play with. I would soon get bored if I was just using BAND to create songs without any real input from myself from Sonar mixing, my keyboard, guitar & vocal. Although you can make an instant song in a few minutes it takes a lot of time and effort to create a song of your own from scratch. Not being a natural musician, over the years BAND has taught me so much, especially about music theory, it's a great tool and I am sure everyone uses it differently, the main thing is to enjoy what you do and hopefully get that buzz from the results.
I've only scratched the surface of everything band contains as I guess most of us as with my other software I just use what we need to to get a job done.
Upgrade is well worth it, for me anyway......
Regards. Jeff
Quote:

Cerio,
I would argue, however, that BIAB is not a full fledged sequencer like Cubase and doesn't claim to be.






why not? Realband was made to offer Cubase-like functionality plus the Biab accompaniment. They are all sequencers. They are all program that allow you to record MIDI or audio and edit it. Never understood this dumb stigma where basically someone says with the nose up in the air: 'uh, no, if it's not Cubase 513b then I don't feel professional enough'

I still use Cubase, mainly because I have my older projects on it. Cubase LE version 1, paid 15 bucks used. Would never spend more than that on it, but on Biab I have no problem spending some money on.
Quote:

Quote:

You complain about the undo, etc...that's ridicolous, I remember when it wasn't even there.




Honestly, I don't see your point, but well




I don't see your point either....so far I have had no problem with the undo, I don't have a problem with the interface and with 80 per cent of the things you mentioned. My problem about Biab has always been the chord recognition (uncalled for alterations, extensions, etc, even with the options disabled) and the fact that there isn't a MIDI software module that can match the quality of a Ketron SD2 at the very least, without spending a small fortune on a MIDI module.

As for everything else, I can live with it. I don't care about the interface, to me this is trivial stuff, it's unimportant. Who cares? I actually don't want the stuff moved around in a new interface. It takes time to learn your way around such a complex program (and Biab is COMPLEX because it has all these options).
I don't want a new interface. I still use Windows XP and I will keep using it, I don't care about Windows Hasta La Vista or the new 137 bit graphic design and don't have time to waste with learning new crap...life is really too short to worry too much about every single thing computer. What matters are the results, i.e. the music I write. I want to make music happen. I don't care about all the rest.

So far to me the new version offers notable (for me) improvements: I am very curious as how the 'simpler arrangement' works, hope that Biab reads my chord progressions with 100 per cent accuracy without anything extra unless I specify it. This feature only will be reason enough for me to buy the upgrade. A mixer has been added. Yeeeeeh! I was tired sick of that slot machine thing.

Hope you see my point a little better...
Posted By: JBlue7 Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/10/11 11:33 AM
Hi All,
Yes I agree again Avatar. The interface is not important to me either and the mixer is still a little primitive although I do most of mixing eventually in Sonar so not too important and everything works perfectly on my W7 PC. Been using biab since the mid 80's and I'd be kind of lost if they changed it and don't want to spend time learning where everything is again. A lot of software new versions and upgrades these days are released claiming new version's or upgrades but it's the same old thing in the disguise of a new pretty [questionably easier to use] interface, same with websites. One way of making money I guess.

I think if I have a moan at all with the new upgrade it would be the fact that it seems you now have to buy the bonus paks to obtain all the available new realtracks/drums, I hope not a new trend. I do think it ought to be included in the upgrade even if it cost just a little more in the first place. I had to add mine later not realising this at the time.

Regards. Jeff
Posted By: Cerio Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/10/11 01:06 PM
Quote:

I don't see your point either....so far I have had no problem with the undo, I don't have a problem with the interface and with 80 per cent of the things you mentioned. My problem about Biab has always been the chord recognition (uncalled for alterations, extensions, etc, even with the options disabled) and the fact that there isn't a MIDI software module that can match the quality of a Ketron SD2 at the very least, without spending a small fortune on a MIDI module.




I'm pretty sure that every user uses the program in his own way, depending of his interests, his abilities and his own way of working. Not being a pianist myself, for example, I don't care about chord recognition in BIAB, but that doesn't make your problem "ridicolous", I wouldn't never say that. It's a legitimate problem, and you're doing well exposing it here or in the wishlist.

In the same way, I've lost a lot ot time (believe me) because the Undo feature didn't worked when it supposed to do, that's why I exposed this particular problem (between others) here, in the hope that Peter and his team will address it on future updates. Of course I can live with it, but I'm not doing nothing "ridicolous" reporting the problem here.

With all respects, what I've never understood is why some people make sarcastic comments about other people's suggestions (or, even worse, disrespectful assumptions about these persons) just because that suggestions don't fit with their particular interests or their personal way of working .
Posted By: Beagle Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/10/11 01:26 PM
Quote:

Quote:

Cerio,
I would argue, however, that BIAB is not a full fledged sequencer like Cubase and doesn't claim to be.






why not? Realband was made to offer Cubase-like functionality plus the Biab accompaniment. They are all sequencers. They are all program that allow you to record MIDI or audio and edit it. Never understood this dumb stigma where basically someone says with the nose up in the air: 'uh, no, if it's not Cubase 513b then I don't feel professional enough'

I still use Cubase, mainly because I have my older projects on it. Cubase LE version 1, paid 15 bucks used. Would never spend more than that on it, but on Biab I have no problem spending some money on.




why not? it simply isn't. if you use Cubase then you should know that RB doesn't come close to being a full fledged sequencer. that's OK. it's a tool that has a place in the market. but it's not cubase.

you're being a little too "defensive" here - it's not about DAW "snobbery." it's not about "feeling professional." there are many functions Cubase can do that RB cannot. but RB is not designed to do those things. it's designed to integrate BIAB styles and RT into a managable format.
Posted By: Beagle Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/10/11 01:29 PM
Quote:

Quote:

I don't see your point either....so far I have had no problem with the undo, I don't have a problem with the interface and with 80 per cent of the things you mentioned. My problem about Biab has always been the chord recognition (uncalled for alterations, extensions, etc, even with the options disabled) and the fact that there isn't a MIDI software module that can match the quality of a Ketron SD2 at the very least, without spending a small fortune on a MIDI module.




I'm pretty sure that every user uses the program in his own way, depending of his interests, his abilities and his own way of working. Not being a pianist myself, for example, I don't care about chord recognition in BIAB, but that doesn't make your problem "ridicolous", I wouldn't never say that. It's a legitimate problem, and you're doing well exposing it here or in the wishlist.

In the same way, I've lost a lot ot time (believe me) because the Undo feature didn't worked when it supposed to do, that's why I exposed this particular problem (between others) here, in the hope that Peter and his team will address it on future updates. Of course I can live with it, but I'm not doing nothing "ridicolous" reporting the problem here.

With all respects, what I've never understood is why some people make sarcastic comments about other people's suggestions (or, even worse, disrespectful assumptions about these persons) just because that suggestions don't fit with their particular interests or their personal way of working .




there have been numerous times I've tried to undo something and it will undo more than the last thing I did. that's my beef with it. I want clean, simple one function undo.
Posted By: Mac Re: A little bit disappointed with BIAB 2012 - 12/10/11 05:14 PM
Quote:

I actually found very strange the inclusion of Amplitube. It's a useful vst if you want to record your guitar, but why would anyone choose a realtrack DI guitar with Amplitube rather than a realtrack with the recording from a real tube amp. I much prefer the latter, but hey...




First, over the years I have found that not all new features are liked by all the different uses and users of BiaB. Your own chosen use of the program may or may not require using one or more of any new features, but that doesn't mean that there are others who have been dying for just that one new feature.

I've taken to calling Band in a Box 2012 "The Producer's Edition" - simply because the addition of the ability to have Dry realguitar tracks, among others, and also the ability to combine two or more VSTi softsynths for MIDI parts, allows for a lot more ability when producing a finished product.

As for the Guitar Amp/Cab simulators, when in the process of creating a mix to get a certain overall sound going, sometimes being able to "reamp" a guitar track, making it more gritty, less gritty, or maybe sculpting the EQ from the standpoint of Guitar Amo EQ rather than applying an overall audio EQ after the fact in an attempt to get a desired mixfit can make a very huge difference in the way the rest of the project is approached. This simply gives us more options at that point and I find that to be a Good Thing.

Incidentally, reamping like that is not just for Guitars, it can also be used on Bass tracks to a great advantage, as well as some of the Rhodes piano tracks. For example, running a Rhodes track through Amplitude guitar amplifier simulator can yield "that" sound of the Rhodes Stage Piano connected to a guitar amp. Add a Compressor at the input, and with a bit of careful diddling, I found that it is rather nice to be able to emlate the sound of the famous (infamous?) Steely Dan Rhodes - really the "West Coast Rhodes" sound as heard on other recordings as well, think "LA Express" etc.

The best thing about New Features is that, if there happens to be one or more that does not seem to have any use to you at the time or fit into your chosen use of the program, well you don't have to use it.

But I think it is nice to keep those in mind for possible future endeavors, never know when one of them might be just the ticket for solving a problem in a project.

And its always cool to experiment around and learn something new.


--Mac
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