Countdown to 2012.5...are we there yet?

Forget the upgrade, I just want a rich wife and a couple of girlfriends like you guys seem to have.

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Forget the upgrade, I just want a rich wife and a couple of girlfriends like you guys seem to have.

You sure as hell ain't talking about me

Dear Mom and Dad,

well, its fathers day and still no news on BIAB 2012.5. Oh, by the way, Dad... happy fathers day, even though you're dead. You were a good father, and I still love you.

However, The anxiety that I'm experiencing by not having the latest greatest version of BIAB is in a way your fault, because you bought me that first guitar in 1964 after I saw the Beatles in HARD DAYS NIGHT. (I wonder if they slept in a parking lot for a week before they wrote that song...?)

Sorry for blaming you... I don't actually believe in playing the victim card; but after watching the news for all these years, I'd have to say it seems to get results.

Anyway, I'm here camped out in the parking lot of PGMusic, waiting for version 2012.5 to be released. If you get this message send lightning or something so I know you're there. On second thought, send fried chicken and a 2 litre bottle of Pepsi. My arteries still have a pinhole of blood flow, and maybe the fried chicken will change that.

More later

Your loving son, (Pat)

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I always find it interesting when people can’t wait for the next upgrade. I’ll bet you that most of us do not use ALL of the features BiaB and/or RB has now! I know that I don’t even come close!

Run ducking for cover!

I will be runnng and ducking with you my friend as what I don't use in BIAB and Realband far outweighs what I do use. In fact I can't remember the last time I even booted RB . . . sad I know.

Later,

I just here for the Real Tracks.....

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I just here for the Real Tracks.....

Real Tracks are defitely a drawing card; but, updates always include some cool new features too. Its all good. I like to see what they're going to come up with next. For example, I never saw Elastique coming, but it made a huge difference in useability of the real tracks. The audio loops are something I've hoped for for a long time, and now they're here. I'm kind of expecting some MIDI enhancements because of the way the MIDI crowd participated in the MIDI IMPROVEMENTS wishlist... but we never know WHAT they'll come up with until its here.

I like surprises.

<I'M A PEST>

update: as of 6/18/2012 at 11 am ET, 2012.5 still not shipping

</I'M A PEST>

The mixer was another totally unexpected improvement, especially incorporating the ability to do a per-track DXi/VSTi, along with effects.

Yes, I'm always impressed how things that none of us requested or even envisioned make it into new releases, and immediately become features we cannot do without.

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Yes, I'm always impressed how things that none of us requested or even envisioned make it into new releases, and immediately become features we cannot do without.

IMO, that's characteristic of a company that has a vision. They know their strengths, and they build on them. Because they know where they're going, they can incrementally lay the correct foundation, block by block.

Or not. But that's been my impression of PGMusic for several years now.

A succession of logical decisions rarely happens randomly... it almost always happens as the result of a long range plan.

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The mixer was another totally unexpected improvement, especially incorporating the ability to do a per-track DXi/VSTi, along with effects.

AAAAAAAMEN BROTHAH!

Dear Mom and Dad,
well, it's 6/19/2012 at 8:36 am ET, and still no 2012.5

But that's OK, I'm willing to wait as long as it takes. However, did you know that living in the elements (rain, dew, sun etc)for an extended period of time makes your whole body into something resembling a raisin, only far less appealing? Dice some apples onto me and add Mayo and I'd be the worst waldorf salad ever. But enough talk about food, since you never did send the fried chicken. The mosquitoes are starting to look appetizing... but to eat one would be cannabalistic, since there's more of my blood in them than there is in me at this point.

PS this will be my last correspondence since lack of food and blood is making me dizzy and unable to focus. I've fallen down so many times the parking lot has multiple indentations shaped like my face. Hopefully 2012.5 is not far away, and I can go home and pick the tarmac out of my teeth.

Your loving son,

Pat

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Forget the upgrade, I just want a rich wife and a couple of girlfriends like you guys seem to have.

You will likely find more takers for that than you wish.....

It's almost Month number 7 so I have a feeling PG must be working on something pretty special... or maybe they are just really distracted by that crazy, unshaven, guy a wailin' and a pickin' on his banjo and camping out in the parking lot:)

Waiting for the next update to BIAB is getting to be like waiting for the Super Bowl so we can see the new commercials.

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It's almost Month number 7 so I have a feeling PG must be working on something pretty special... or maybe they are just really distracted by that crazy, unshaven, guy a wailin' and a pickin' on his banjo and camping out in the parking lot:)

hey! I resemble that!

I wonder what they'll do for version 2013? Concerns about customer superstition have led to renaming schemes for lots of products through the years. Even many buildings number the floors ..10, 11, 12, 14 skipping the use of number 13 as a floor name.

Maybe they'll focus on a special feature and call it something like

1) THE MIDI EXTRAVAGANZA VERSION
2) BACKING TRACKS GONE WILD

or maybe that version will be so utter different that they'll have to change the name to
3) BAND OUTSIDE THE BOX!

or maybe they'll spend all year focusing on the most asked-for wishlist items from the past 10 years, and call it
4)THE WISHLIST SPECIAL EDITION

or maybe they'll make all the new real tracks for one featured instrument, and name that version
5) STRINGS! or WORLD! or ORCHESTRA!

or maybe they'll change the interface and revamp the image with a name like
6) PG Songwriter's Toolkit v.1.0

Or not. My strategy here is to start looking so far ahead that the time between now and version 2012.5 seems shorter

My wife just let me by a lap steel. Good girl!!!!

I sometimes skip the mid year update but I'm always excited to see what is new.

PG never lets us know before it comes out. I understand why. I announced my new fake disks would be ready a couple of months ago, and I just uploaded them last night. It seems that as soon as you announce a projected date, unexpected problems rear their ugly heads and cause a delay. Murphy's law, I guess

Brand new 2012.5 updates from Norton Music:
2 new style disks for Band-in-a-Box
2 new free (with a purchase) fancy intro/ending disks for Real Band and other DAW's
The Ultimate Gospel Fake Disk
The Real Rock Fake Disk (plenty of classic rock in this one)
The Beatles Fake Disk
And an updated Christmas Fake Disk

Hundreds of Free .sgu and .mp3 demos for the above at: http://www.nortonmusic.com

Well I suppose after many months of silence we suddenly see ads on every forum. It is very hard to miss the bold faced sale flyer attaced to each riveting post.

Y Note..I have a 50 buck Yamaha keyboard selling for 699.99 and it comes with the 7 year old manual on how to make PDF work in vm. Riveting work by rosy. Pickup only any day not ending in y, about sundown.

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It's almost Month number 7 so I have a feeling PG must be working on something pretty special... or maybe they are just really distracted by that crazy, unshaven, guy a wailin' and a pickin' on his banjo and camping out in the parking lot:)

Yeah, the truckers with the new hard drives are frightened to drive past him in case he bites.

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PG never lets us know before it comes out. I understand why. I announced my new fake disks would be ready a couple of months ago, and I just uploaded them last night. It seems that as soon as you announce a projected date, unexpected problems rear their ugly heads and cause a delay. Murphy's law, I guess

Brand new 2012.5 updates from Norton Music:
2 new style disks for Band-in-a-Box
2 new free (with a purchase) fancy intro/ending disks for Real Band and other DAW's
The Ultimate Gospel Fake Disk
The Real Rock Fake Disk (plenty of classic rock in this one)
The Beatles Fake Disk
And an updated Christmas Fake Disk

Hundreds of Free .sgu and .mp3 demos for the above at: http://www.nortonmusic.com

My stupid Question is what are the fake discs you sell? are they the songs in BBfiles with chords and changes so i can play and learn them? just not sure what a fak disc. sorry for dumb question. i am going back to site and read more up on it.

So, Notes, I take it you have some new discs ready?

So, Notes, I take it you have some new discs ready?

So, Notes, I take it you have some new discs ready?

So, Notes, I take it you have some new discs ready?

So, Notes, I take it you have some new discs ready?

So, Notes, I take it you have some new discs ready?

So, Notes, I take it you have some new discs ready?

So, Notes, I take it you have some new discs ready?

So, Notes, I take it you have some new discs ready?

So, Notes, I take it you have some new discs ready?

So, Notes, I take it you have some new discs ready?

So, Notes, I take it you have some new discs ready?

So, Notes, I take it you have some new discs ready?

(My version of "Are we there yet?")

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So, Notes, I take it you have some new discs ready?<...snip...>

(My version of "Are we there yet?")

Yep, it's my version of 2012.5 - yes we are there!!!

Dang

July 2nd and still no dot-5

How can we have fireworks if we don't have that??

Everytime I read this thread I end up biting my tongue...
Ouch! Not there yet!

< crawling through vast desert of lame audio software >

... Real Tracks... Real Tracks... over fifty... new features....

</ crawling through vast desert of lame audio software >

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< crawling through vast desert of lame audio software >

... Real Tracks... Real Tracks... over fifty... new features....

</ crawling through vast desert of lame audio software >

LOL.. Tom, I really enjoy your sense of humor.
You write and perform humorous songs, don't you? I guess humor is part of who you are...
(please never change)

Thanks, Pat. That means a lot. And, yeah, making people laugh and have fun is a huge part of my life, and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

can't....
hold out....
much...
longer....

too...
many...
other...
places...
for my money...
to get spent...

if dot-five doesn't show up soon,
I'll cave under pressure
and spend it on somebody's 4th of July stupid deal of the day

Or not

dot 5 dot 5 are you really alive, dot 5 dot 5 I need you to survive.

We could all get on the bandwagon here can't we

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dot 5 dot 5 are you really alive, dot 5 dot 5 I need you to survive.

We could all get on the bandwagon here can't we

BIABwagon, to be specific.

The 4th is my birthday. Send me your cash. I'll keep it and send it back as a gift less 10 holding and 19'99 shipping. A flat $30.00 admin fee on all accounts applies. ).

Sorry I am hording mine for the BIABwagon..

It will probably cheaper than your offering

top 10 progression of remakes while
waiting for the release of BIAB 2012.5
-----------------------------------------------

10)Sittin on the Dock of the Bay (wonderin' if .5 will ship today) Otis Redding

9) Kind Of A Drag (that BIAB 2012.5 isn't ready yet) Buckinghams

8) The Thrill Is Gone (from the previous version) B.IAB.King

7) BIABy I'm A Want You ('nuff said) Bread

6) In the Year 2012.5 (if man is still alive, will he have dot-5?) Zager & Evans

5) More and More (how many real tracks we need) Blood Sweat Tears

4) Celebration! (it finally shipped!) Kool and the Gang

3) Shower The People You Love With BIAB2012.5 (hint, hint) JT

2) Papa's Got A Brand New BIAB (hey, she got the hint!) James Brown

1) Fun Fun Fun (with the latest version) BeachBoys

-----------------------
standard disclaimer:
blah blah blah in the event that blah blah not responsible blah blah I'm just making this up blah blah
-----------------------

Good ones pat. Dave Barry would be proud.

Loved 'em, Pat.

Hey Notes, I am confused....how is "America, the Beautiful" a Gospel song?!

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Hey Notes, I am confused....how is "America, the Beautiful" a Gospel song?!

It was in the book, Gospel's Greatest Fake Book. Blame Hal Leonard. I guess they felt the following lines were enough to include the song: God shed His grace on thee ... God mend thine ev'ry flaw ... May God thy gold refine.

But I agree with you, that one is questionable. There are about a half dozen songs that I thought were good songs but not really appropriate for Gospel. On the other hand there are 450 songs on the disk from the Classic Hymns that have been loved for years, to Traditional Favorite Gospel songs, to Southern Gospel, to African-American Spirituals, to Contemporary P&W songs by artists like: Dottie Rambo, Sandi Patty, Mavis Staples, Amy Grant, Carman, CeCe Winans, Andraé Crouch, Steven Curtis Chapman, Tramaine Hawkins, Michael W. Smith, Petra, Jars of Clay, Take 6, Nehemiah Brown, David Phelps, and The Gaithers.

Go to http://www.nortonmusic.com/fake30.html and look at the song list on the right hand side of the page, and you will see that almost all of them are definitely either Gospel or Contemporary Christian Music titles.

I chose America The Beautiful as the demo song because I released it a week before the 4th of July (our Independence Day) and I was feeling rather patriotic at the time.

Despite the minor flaws, it's a great book. And Leilani did a fantastic job, sometimes stretching the limits of Band-in-a-Box and getting to do things it wasn't designed to do in order to make the songs sound right.

Since I released it I've received many e-mails from happy customers telling me how much they like the disk and thanking me for compiling it.

Notes ♫

Brand new 2012.5 updates from Norton Music:
2 new style disks for Band-in-a-Box
2 new free (with a purchase) fancy intro/ending disks for Real Band and other DAW's
The Ultimate Gospel Fake Disk
The Real Rock Fake Disk (plenty of classic rock in this one)
The Beatles Fake Disk
And an updated Christmas Fake Disk

Hundreds of Free .sgu and .mp3 demos for the above at: http://www.nortonmusic.com

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top 10 progression of remakes while waiting for the release of BIAB 2012.5

You missed a few.

You're Gonna Lose That Girl (if you don't stop buying upgrades) - Bluddy Beatles

Mexico (Where you can get bootlegged copies) - JT

Panama (if Mexico runs out of bootlegged copies) - Van Halen

You Won't See Me (because I am playing with 2012.5) - Bluddy Beatles again

This Old Heart Of Mine (can't wait much longer) - Isley Brother

Don't Wanna Wait Anymore - The Tubes

I Can't Go For That (waiting for the upgrade) - Hall and that other guy

Just One Upgrade (or Victory) - Todd

Man, we could play THIS game for years!

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Good ones pat. Dave Barry would be proud.

I consider that to be high praise coming from you John! I marvel at the masterful ways you express your thoughts when you post. Much of what you write is so cleverly constructed and the multiple meanings are so interwoven that I often have to step back and consciously unravel the hidden messages. And, Dave Barry is a favorite around here... one of the few writers who consistently makes me laugh out loud. Thanks!

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Loved 'em, Pat.

Thanks John! I dump a lot of verbal nonsense on the forum, mostly to amuse myself... it's always an unexpected treat to actually draw a response... you made my day!

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Man, we could play THIS game for years!

but I hope we don't have to

thanks for piling on, Eddie... you really have a way with words and I was hoping you'd kick in a few of your own. Good ones, too!

Here are the entire lyrics, most of which are never heard nor sung. The song is in the United Methodist Hymnal and sung on generally patriotic occasions. Anhyway, here it is in entirety.

America the Beautiful
Words by Katharine Lee Bates,
Melody by Samuel Ward

O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

O beautiful for pilgrim feet
Whose stern impassioned stress
A thoroughfare of freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America! America!
God mend thine every flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law!

O beautiful for heroes proved
In liberating strife.
Who more than self their country loved
And mercy more than life!
America! America!
May God thy gold refine
Till all success be nobleness
And every gain divine!

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

O beautiful for halcyon skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the enameled plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till souls wax fair as earth and air
And music-hearted sea!

O beautiful for pilgrims feet,
Whose stem impassioned stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till paths be wrought through
wilds of thought
By pilgrim foot and knee!

O beautiful for glory-tale
Of liberating strife
When once and twice,
for man's avail
Men lavished precious life!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till selfish gain no longer stain
The banner of the free!

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till nobler men keep once again
Thy whiter jubilee!

Questions...I run 2010.5 UltraPlusPak on an external 150gig usb drive that the program was delivered on. (64 gigs free space)

1. When 12.5 ships, can I download whatever package I decide to buy to that same external drive thereby saving whatever cost there would be in getting the new software on a new drive?

2. If yes...should I delete 2010.5 before downloading 12.5 or can I just overright the existing version?

Thanks
Jim

The answer is maybe. Sometimes, for the mid-year release, they offer a DVD update option. But that's generally for those going from 2012 to 2012.5 (or in the past, 2011 to 2011.5) and it just includes the files that changed. Since you'll be upgrading from 2010.5 to 2012.5, you'll need to get the whole shebang, which means they'll send you the external drive (but I believe will provide download links as well).

What I would do, however, is to call them whenever it comes out and see what they can work out for you. Maybe you can just get download links and not have to pay for the drive. However, you're still going to need close to double the total amount of storage initially, because the download links will be zip files and will need to be uncompressed. Also, you'll want somewhere to archive those zip files, so if you ever have to re-install, you can. Having only one copy of the software is never a good idea, because one crash is all it takes to wipe out everything.

Thanks John. Easy sell on getting it all on a new drive. I recently needed to store about 25 gigs so I called Staples and said I needed about a 30 gig drive. After the salesman got done laughing, he said the smallest they sell anymore is 500 gigs! It cost about $70.00 so I didn't even bother shopping around! (-:

RE: BIAB...at least I TRIED to be frugal which for me is totally out of character!!! (Not because I have excess money but because of excess LAZINESS!!! ) (-:

Jim

Jeez, nobody wished John a happy birthday. Happy Belated Birthday, John!

Personally, I really like having the drives. They've been reliable.
One thing to consider: 2010 version needed more Realtracks to work right. *Correct me if I'm wrong on version here*

Since then the new audio engine made it possible to reduce the Realtracks needed and save quite a bit of space. When I made the change early on it went from 80+ gig of tracks to 35 gig or so. So the new Realtracks allow getting more 'stuff' on the same space.

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Jeez, nobody wished John a happy birthday. Happy Belated Birthday, John!

yeah! happy belated birthday, John!

An open letter to PGMUSIC derived mostly from titles of the 1970 Billboard top 100 songs
------------------------------------

Dear PGMusic,

"ALL RIGHT NOW"... "ARE YOU READY" to ship 2012.5 yet? I have shed "96 TEARS" waiting for this... and I must say, there "AINT NO MOUNTAIN HIGH ENOUGH" to keep me away from this new version. In the past I received "THE LETTER" announcing new versions... but I'm too impatient to wait for snail mail, so... "GIMME DAT DING"!! "CALL ME" and I'll "COME AND GET IT" so I can say "EVERYTHING IS BEAUTIFUL"!

But... all this ranting... "IT'S ONLY MAKE BELIEVE"... yet "I JUST CAN'T HELP BELIEVING" that "ITS A SHAME" to take this long to release what I consider to be a "BRIDGE OVER TROUBLED WATER". I need this distraction to ease the "FIRE AND RAIN" of life's problems.

You may be thinking "GIVE ME JUST A LITTLE MORE TIME" or "I'LL BE THERE"
later "IN THE SUMMERTIME" with a rock-solid version that requires no "PATCHES"

But, please "WALK A MILE IN MY SHOES". I'm in a "TRAVELIN BAND" and I need this software now. I have "NO TIME" to spend waiting. So Here I sit, camped out in the parking lot. "MAMA TOLD ME NOT TO COME", but I replied "LOOK WHAT THEY'VE DONE TO MY SONG, MA!" They're holding over 50 new features and 101 new real tracks that might be the "VEHICLE" of my musical success!

Others are gathering here in the parking lot with me, "HITCHING A RIDE" on my protest. "WE'VE ONLY JUST BEGUN" to make our voices heard. "UNITED WE STAND".

But, having said all that, If 2012.5 ships today, it will "MAKE ME SMILE"

Sincerely,

A devoted customer.

PS, don't look behind the porta-dumpster in the parking lot. You won't like what you'll find there.

TONGUE-IN-CHEEK-O-METER
0_________________/_100

Pat, I feel for ya. You got a case of updateitis real bad. Believe me, I know, cause I have been there.

In the meantime, there are fixes out there to distract you. TC Helicon just released a new VLT Firmware update (free), Reaper put out an update every other week, if not more often (Free). Jamstick just finished beta testing of it new fully 64bit version (free).

Hang in their buddy.

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Pat, I feel for ya. You got a case of updateitis real bad. Believe me, I know, cause I have been there.

In the meantime, there are fixes out there to distract you. TC Helicon just released a new VLT Firmware update (free), Reaper put out an update every other week, if not more often (Free). Jamstick just finished beta testing of it new fully 64bit version (free).

Hang in their buddy.

Thanks for the tips on all the other distractions! Distractions are good!

Oh Man! You are cracking me up with a 6 foot smile
laughing my way to the grave...at least I'm happy..

Maybe! Maybe! PG Music could hold off a little longer to see what else you may
crank out for us guys to laugh our heads off!

But that may not go down well with you...

But Pat, would you go 25 MILES on the Love Train to get it? Don't worry, OUR DAY WILL COME.

(Had to get 3 Cleveland area artists in there....)

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But Pat, would you go 25 MILES on the Love Train to get it? Don't worry, OUR DAY WILL COME.

(Had to get 3 Cleveland area artists in there....)

Eddie,
You are so clever with words... have you ever dabbled in writing music reviews for one of those free local entertainment periodicals that seem to exist everywhere? You could be the MUSIC NAZI who shows up at clubs to listen and critique the bands. (Music Nazi? Does that imply the existence of a flatted 3rd reich? Hmmm)

Anyway, I think you could make such reviews so entertaining that your column would be a real asset to the periodical. Since those rags tend to be freely available around town, I have no idea if the columnists get paid... but it would have to be satisfying to know that your wit was entertaining a lot of people.

But then, you already get that here, and there are no deadlines.

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You are so clever with words... have you ever dabbled in writing music reviews for one of those free local entertainment periodicals that seem to exist everywhere? You could be the MUSIC NAZI who shows up at clubs to listen and critique the bands.

Pat, I do that NOW without having the job. One of my friends says I am so brutal she will never go see a band with me again.

But I believe in these three things.

"Go big or go home." If you want to play Let's Groove Tonight, hire a horn section. You can't do EW&F music and say "Aaah... we'll just leave the horns out." Leave the horns out? Of Earth, Wind & Fire songs?

"Be on time and on target." Harmony MUST be accurate. No harmony is better than BAD harmony.

"Don't give it away for free." Bands around here are playing for $300 anymore. Thus they play with a non-singing power trio and a girl vocalist, yet try to do music that at the very least needs a keyboard player. This one could have also been called "Pick music that fits your instrumentation."

I have a friend who sings with a bigger scale band. They do classic Motown. The trumpet player if consistently flat, and the sax player has no imagination. That is SO boring to listen to. But they work, and here's why. If you go to places that cater to older people who go out maybe twice a year and have no basis of comparison, ANYTHING is going to sound good to them, like those people who only hear live music when they go to a wedding. A musician (like many of us) who played (or plays) for a living for so many years is going to have a more critical ear. In college they teach a concept called "Levels of listening", where the more you know ABOUT it, the more you will hear as right or wrong. I can go see a band with 3 other people and all 4 of us will hear a different band. One will drool over the girls hooters, another may hear how bad the mix is, another may notice the drummer's meter, etc....

MANY years ago, when one of the nieces or nephews got married, I don't know which one, they had this awful band that they used because they were friends and did it just for the dinner and open bar. I was sitting with my older cousin, an amazing piano player and the reason I started music by age 5. He was the special older cousin who we all had in our life. I was still playing full time then, so I still had chops. Somewhere in the 2nd set I pulled (I think it was) my niece aside and told her that John and I would love to get up with the band if they didn't mind. They were fine with it. I went out and got my sax from the trunk and we got up to start the set. John played the keyboard player's rig like it is SUPPOSED to sound, and once the ancient Chinese secret called "tu ning" is applied to a sax, it works out better. 8 bars into the first song, I leaned over to the tenor player and said "Pull out on the mouthpiece. You have been sharp all night." And told the trumpet player the same thing. Suddenly you had three horns all in tune, a piano player who knew music, and we did a bunch of Motown stuff that FINALLY had the guests up dancing.

Now, was that really "brutal"? Maybe it embarrassed them, but geeze if nobody tells them.....

And THAT is why I shouldn't review bands.

The topic of musicians being too lazy to write or too scared to perform originals I will save for another time, but that's in there too.

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And THAT is why I shouldn't review bands.

no, that's why you SHOULD!

In a forum environment where it is good to build relationships with other members, it is not desirable to appraise other peoples songs with brutality. Negative observations can be made in small doses if accompanied by legitimate observations of the song's strengths (as Julie Andrews would say: "a Spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down")

But outside this environment, when pursued as a real task of critiquing music, brutality attracts readers. People vicariously pile on when they read somebody's well-stated observation... especially if they made the same observation but didn't know how to express it.

Having said all that, its worth noting that a reviewer who only flings insults begins to lose credibility after about 3 columns. It is expected that someone who is savvy enough to know what's wrong is also savvy enough to know what's right. Pointing out both creates a basis for improvement and an awareness that with work it is possible to get praise.

The harsh remarks, on the other hand, do a good job of making the local wannabes aware that its not enough to show up and make noise.

You may be missing your calling Eddie. The rare combination of your musical diversity and your way with words positions you very well to write music reviews. If you get a foothold in local papers, you might be able to syndicate and make some real money.

we're well into July with no 2012.5 yet. Whatever they're working on must be pretty cool. So I'm going to stop pestering and just wait for the announcement. Maybe there won't BE a 2012.5... maybe its such an undertaking that it won't be ready until December. Either way, I look forward to seeing what's in the oven...

I said it elsewhere too ... skipping .5 and go straight to 13 in December LOL... (speculating).

My dear old mother used to say "Patience is a virtue"
Unfortunately I never seemed to learn the lesson

I'm ready to buy but sounds like I should wait a little longer!

Hmmmm. July 13 and still no Biab 2012.5. I don't remember a .5 update coming this late. Does anyone else?

To put the cat among the PGins...

There are obviously beta testers on here, I am not one of them, but I wonder if the BIG rewrite is coming with 2012.5 or 2013?
My feeling is that the current architecture, though functional is in need of a complete rewrite.
Windows 8 is just aound the corner and touch screen pads are now common - possibly the future. There is also the matter of 64 bit.

Good though it is BIAB is creaking at the seams, it even mentions win 95 in the settings!

I could appreciate a few more RTs and would be happy to pay for them, but my guess is, if PG are wise they are spending the bulk of their time rewriting and rethinking the whole package (not loosing functionality but improving it) and not spending much time on an update of what we currently have.

IMO

Zero

There's a recent thread talking about a Cakewalk engineer who tested Sonar with Win 8 and he talked about how it works. Apparently all the touch screen tablet stuff is part of Metro not Win 8. Metro has no ability to interface with midi or VST's and it's completely unusable for high level music production that we're talking about. Win 8 however worked great according to him but that's only for a standard PC. Sonar was faster and smoother than Win 7 using the exact same hardware.

From what I read, the problem with tablets is the OS. IOS, Android and now Metro don't have what it takes for us to do our thing unfortunately. They all have music related apps that are kinda sorta fun to play with but nothing that approaches what we need for Biab or any full DAW. If they can't do regular midi or load plugins then what good is it for us?

I totally agree with your comment about references to win 95, MME and antique stuff like that. I've mentioned that for years, it's just words in the help screen. Take that crap out for cryin out loud. Please.

Bob

Here's the link again to the thread Bob just mentioned. It's a good read, and is very reassuring that BIAB or any other audio software that runs on Windows 7 should work in the non-Metro side of Windows 8, and maybe work better.

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=368538&an=0&page=1#Post368538

Quote:

I totally agree with your comment about references to win 95, MME and antique stuff like that. I've mentioned that for years, it's just words in the help screen. Take that crap out for cryin out loud. Please.

I have been begging for years for PG to turn documentation over to third-party specialists. I wasn't aware that there was material that needed to be removed, but that's just one more reason, isn't it?

A lot to agree with JM in your post.
From what i understand you can switch between ,metro and the standard desktop - in w8. Its puzzling to me that all the music apps I have seen for touchscreen so far, without exception have been 'toys' rather than real apps, perhaps we await win 8. I can think of lots of ways that touch could be utilised, for example faders could be on screen in touch and you could fade without using a mouse.
I am not entirely convinced that this is the way to go myself, but it seems everything is going this way, from megapowerful phones to the Ipad and clones.
I could see the phone being used as a hand held interface for a large screen in a pro studio. So, for example the phone app could have a fader or two on it and clicking and dragging it would, via blue tooth, effect the larger DAWs sequencer. There also must be new innovative uses for touch, for example maybe you could strum a guitar, or a harp. Synths like omnisphere are sure to make use of it, in fact omnidsphere has start to do so.
Although at present many of the OS's dont really support Audio sequencers, I can foresee someone developing a must have app that gives a decent audio engine and compatibility, rather similar to ASIO. Maybe even a particular tablet coming out with the right hardware for musicians...

I hope the whole audio engine gets revised. And as the buttons marked strings that play trombones.... inexcusable to any other programmer and so simple to fix.

Quote:

I could appreciate a few more RTs and would be happy to pay for them, but my guess is, if PG are wise they are spending the bulk of their time rewriting and rethinking the whole package (not loosing functionality but improving it) and not spending much time on an update of what we currently have.

I totally agree.

Zero, when you read that article, the guy says that plugins have to have access to the kernel of the OS. It's plugins that makes a PC suitable for pro level audio. Non pros can have fun with the basic Windows wavetable for sound and mess around with plenty of free basic music creation and recording apps. As soon as you move up to our level we have to have plugins for sound, effects and mastering. Without that any PC including tablets are useless to us. With the tablets that's just not happening right now. I'm certainly not a developer so does that mean they could do it if they wanted to or does it mean it's simply impossible with those tablet OS's? The way that guy describes the attitude of some people he asked about it, it looks like nothing has changed. We're just not a large enough demographic to make them care.

Bob

Must be one epic .5

I'm waiting with berated breath.

May my songs create, no ...
Never mind check Dido...

Gee miner me thinks

Myself I'm going to wait till next year and purchase the MAC version.Might get an upgrade if there are more Jazz real tracks loaded.WOuld love more solo guitar and sax work.

dot 8?

JM I jsut hope things move on. Hostorically Windows have practically ignored the music community, thats why Steinberg gave us Asio and for that matter the concept of a plugin. Surely a modern quality tablet should handle audio effectively. Digital musicians are a pretty large community these days.

Glass half full...

regarding the "glass half full " analogy:

is somebody still considered an optimist if he thinks the glass is half full... of poison?

Quote:

regarding the "glass half full " analogy:

is somebody still considered an optimist if he thinks the glass is half full... of poison?

Maybe, if it's for his mother-in-law

Running for cover

I can remember when there were no half-year upgrades and, as I said earlier, I liked it better. I am pretty happy with the program and all I need is more swingin' basic jazz styles. I don't need any more soloists, thank you.

I guess if we don't see something by Aug 1st, we can assume there's no mid year release. Late June would have been 6 months from the December release. we're already into the 7th month. An August release would mean only 4 months until the Christmas offering, and that short of an interval starts to undermine the likelihood that people would buy something that will be replaced in 4 months.

On the up side:

EVERYBODY will be buying in December!

disclaimer:
I'm just makin' this up. I have no idea what the plan is.

Quote:

Pat Marr wrote:

I guess if we don't see something by Aug 1st, we can assume there's no mid year release. Late June would have been 6 months from the December release. we're already into the 7th month. An August release would mean only 4 months until the Christmas offering, and that short of an interval starts to undermine the likelihood that people would buy something that will be replaced in 4 months.

This pretty much sums up one thing that I have always wondered about: Why all the secrecy? Why can't we just be told roughly what to expect and when? Doesn't have to be a full list of features that PG intend to implement, but just a hint.

I would certainly like that, because my budget is limited - I guess most people on here are like that - and this year it's particularly limited, so knowing what to expect would make making the right choices that much easier.

If we look at those people who make our beloved (!) OS, they have a publicly available roadmap, that shows you just what to expect and roughly when and that helps us in the IT business make better decisions. Sure they sometimes miss the mark and sometimes they even miss the entire ballpark, but you have an idea anyway.

Just my thoughts!

Ole

Quote:

I guess if we don't see something by Aug 1st, we can assume there's no mid year release. Late June would have been 6 months from the December release. we're already into the 7th month. An August release would mean only 4 months until the Christmas offering, and that short of an interval starts to undermine the likelihood that people would buy something that will be replaced in 4 months.

On the up side:

EVERYBODY will be buying in December!

disclaimer:
I'm just makin' this up. I have no idea what the plan is.

In fairness, I looked at date of purchase for last year and in my case it was Jul 15th, year before was Jun 27 Jun, but in 2009 it was 18 Aug. However, I may have waited or was out of town that year (until this year I was almost never home so I got to my "fun stuff" when I could).

I don't remember ever commenting or asking "when?" about the mid-year or the Christmas offerings. But especially this year, and ONLY in my case, PG may have already missed MY boat. Finances are a lot different this year (and I just bought KARMA for my Motif and my Wife a new Nissan so.....). Unless there is some radical departure from the norm (e.g., something offered at mid-year that will never be offered again) I'll simply wait until end of year now.

However, I do look forward to see what, if anything, PG comes up with.

Larry

My two cents.

Many of us have bought two upgrades per year for many years. This year may may be different for several reasons:

1. The later the upgrade the less value and time to learn.

2. Biab is now a mature product. The interface is perhaps overdue for an upgrade.

3. Real tracks are great but a point of diminishing returns sets in. Even though I have all of them I still can't find exactly what I want.

4 . This is a tough economy and money is tight. Not knowing if and when an upgrade is coming means users will find other items for their musical budget. INMHO NOT keeping loyal customers in the loop is a mistake. When I was in management I always kept my best customers in the loop.

This is still my favorite music creation tool but for the above reasons may take a pass on the mid year upgrade. My hope is that PG is waiting to do something dramatic.

A big + 1 to all of that especially the part,

"INMHO NOT keeping loyal customers in the loop is a mistake"

Its very strange indeed that a beta tester is not allowed to give any info before a release, if they are a beta tester, if there will be a release, but once the release is out there are very happy to talk about the beta testing and tell us that they took part.

Not a reflection on them, they do a sterling job, but it seems it must be PGmusic';s official policy. You remember that old tv series "The Prisioner" and all the secrecy involved!

I have all the realtracks too and they are great, BUT so is midi as I'm beginning to realise in the latest little song that I am doing where I am manually entering the notes in the notation (well trying to within my ability).

That little musical phrase can't be got with the existing realtracks, and though as I said realtracks are great I would like to see further enhancements on the midi side as well.

I used to get a bit irritated by Notes Norton talking about the virtues of midi all the time, but I am beginning to understand what he is on about now.

Just my opinions again.

Musiclover

Quote:

Its very strange indeed that a beta tester is not allowed to give any info before a release, if they are a beta tester, if there will be a release, but once the release is out there are very happy to talk about the beta testing and tell us that they took part.

Obviously I don't know everything but what company does this? I've never heard or seen any that gives prerelease info. Even unofficial rumours gets companies in trouble sometimes when the thing rumored about doesn't happen. To tell people that oh yeah we're working on a mid year update and our target is whatever, then it doesn't happen, then what? For all we know, the lead developer had a heart attack and is sitting the hospital right now. Things have to get tested and sorted out and unless the people doing the developing are perfect transcendental geniuses and everything goes exactly to plan then how on earth can they say that until it is in fact, ready for release?

Bob

I've done a bit of testing for PreSonus hardware and can tell you, that beta testers are sworn to secrecy, signing an electronic confidentiality document and all that good stuff. It'd be not normal for PG to NOT do the same for their products.

Like the rest of you I to have been waiting for 2012.5. I think though that I have a better idea for PG. Offer a monthly update subscription. Allow us dielhards to subscrlibe to a service that provides a d/l every month of the latest upgraded stuff like completed real trackks and stuff worked out during the month. Charge us 24.95 a month. that comes to 299.40 a year. More than 2 $129.00 updates a year. yeh, with just 100 of us signing up for that they would have a monthly stream of $2500. That might pay the rent on buildings or server fees. Granted they would loose the upgrades every 6 months but they would also eliminate the need for providing new usb hard drives in large numbers. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Quote:

Like the rest of you I to have been waiting for 2012.5. I think though that I have a better idea for PG. Offer a monthly update subscription. Allow us dielhards to subscrlibe to a service that provides a d/l every month of the latest upgraded stuff like completed real trackks and stuff worked out during the month. Charge us 24.95 a month. that comes to 299.40 a year. More than 2 $129.00 updates a year. yeh, with just 100 of us signing up for that they would have a monthly stream of $2500. That might pay the rent on buildings or server fees. Granted they would loose the upgrades every 6 months but they would also eliminate the need for providing new usb hard drives in large numbers. Seems like a no brainer to me.

given the enormous size of the product, a subscription that allows incremental downloads is an absolutely KILLER idea, Earl! I'd subscribe in a heartbeat.

I do hereby award you one forum "attaboy" for the cool idea. Remember, however, that one "AwRats" negates all outstanding "attaboys".

(I didn't quote that exactly as I learned it, but you get my drift. )

I know that I'd subscribe to a monthly update plan. That's not something I say lightly but I trust PG Music enough that I do so gladly.

Looks like 2012.9

Quote:

Like the rest of you I to have been waiting for 2012.5. I think though that I have a better idea for PG. Offer a monthly update subscription. Allow us dielhards to subscrlibe to a service that provides a d/l every month of the latest upgraded stuff like completed real trackks and stuff worked out during the month. Charge us 24.95 a month. that comes to 299.40 a year. More than 2 $129.00 updates a year. yeh, with just 100 of us signing up for that they would have a monthly stream of $2500. That might pay the rent on buildings or server fees. Granted they would loose the upgrades every 6 months but they would also eliminate the need for providing new usb hard drives in large numbers. Seems like a no brainer to me.

I'd only go along with this idea if it could run alongside the end of year upgrade price.

To be honest I really hate monthly subscriptions services, some I can't get out of like broadband utilities etc, but I detest them.

I like the idea if you want to buy something, you only do so if you can afford it and pay a one off price as we do now every year for biab upgrades.

Everyone has different opinions I know.

Musiclover

While I personally like the idea of a subscription, I'm with Musiclover in that it should be an option along with the annual or semi-annual upgrades.

the main advantage of an incremental upgrade subscription would be the reduced price from not needing a USB drive to deliver the whole program at once, and the need for less bandwidth to accommodate many large downloads at the same time once or twice a year.

The ability to DL only what's new (and maybe even updated manual pages that could be inserted into a printed manual in a binder) would be slick. My WOO-HOO-O-METER would be pegged.

Also, it could make it easier for people to stay current. At any given time, I can usually come up with $20... but I can't always come up with larger amounts that aren't already committed elsewhere. Many of us live on a budget, and monthly subscriptions are easier to manage within a budget than occasional larger expenditures..

This would be an option, not a requirement. People who like buying the whole shootin' match on a USB drive once or twice a year could still do that. I'm thinking the subscription would end up being less expensive AND more convenient AND something new to look forward to every month.

Or not. We're just kicking ideas around. As far as I know PGM isn't even thinking about such an arrangement.

Quote:

Many of us have bought two upgrades per year for many years.

No. Not many of us at all.

The marketing practice of half-year BiaB versioning is only four years old (maybe five). During the first couple of years, those updates were offered for free, with nothing to buy.

You have bought two such versions, or three at most. It's a new thing.

A subscription would not be for me .. Better would be to pay & download the updates that pertain to me..much like Norton does, I may not need nor want a Sept. update that has only Blues, or a Rock update in Dec , but may only want a Country update or Jazz update..
I personally only use Country, & to subscribe to a monthly fee would certainly not be feasable for me or some others I know.. I just don't see the difference between a yearly or sub annually purchase that we can decide we want or wait for the next one to come out or signing up for a monthly subscription, & be obligated for a monthly charge & maybe find out that the updates for this year are not the ones I need or want.

The cost of the upgrade isn't so much for the new program functionality, I suppose, rather than for all the new RealTracks released with each half-year upgrade. I don't imagine top session players are doing this for free. :-)

You need to define "update", Allis. The update to the basic program has been and still is free I believe. It's the new Real Tracks that cost extra as they should, and they usually also require the latest version of the program to run.

Bob

Hi, John. Yes, I'm sure you're correct.

The basic point-five program updates (with no Realtracks) have sold for $29 since they started charging for it two years ago. During the discount period, you get it for $20.

Money is always tight for me, so while I look forward to the 6 month update, I check out it out really carefully to make sure there's something compelling in it.

Fortunately, my birthday is around this time of year, so sometimes I get lucky. But I pretty much have to rely on the kindness of relatives to maintain my BIAB addiction.

Pat awoke in the PGMusic parking lot to a foul stench. Could it be that the local animals were using him as their port-a-PAT? No wait... not an animal. Note to self: don't even TRY to wash these underpants. Just burn them. An even better idea would be not to remove them first.

He had never realized that eyelids could become like beef jerky... yet , here they were, massaging his eyes with gravel at every blink.

A quick glance at his watch told him 3 things:

1) they don't make watch batteries like they used to
2) if you've been living in a parking lot for a month, its a very bad idea to look at anything that might possibly return your reflection
3)OUCH! OUCH! GRAVEL EYES! OUCH!

He wondered who had snuck up on him as he slept and put all those tiny socks on his teeth. He was afraid to look and see what color they were, but it was evident that these were the fuzzy kind of socks. At this point a mere toothbrush would be useless. Steel wool dipped in battery acid might work, though.

July 24th, and still no BIAB update. He just groaned and tried to sit upwind from himself.

TMI!

So, are Peter and the the gang listening or should I put this is the wish list?

BTW, I'd even pay for the 6 month upgrade at the time AND then a monthly subscription. Another words you would have to buy the first upgrade to get on the subscription plan. That's how much such a plan would be worth to me.

Would they really release 2012.5 in Aug and then have 2013 5 months later?That makes video games look grate. I think a $15 monthly would be better since you own it and when you upgrade each year at release you get it at almost 1/2 price. I could Never convince the wife@ a $25 month fee, 15 maybe (2 less beers a week lol). I plan on the ultraplus or everything pack in December.

Quote:

Would they really release 2012.5 in Aug and then have 2013 5 months later?

I hope so!

I’ve just heard from very unreliable sources that BiaB 2012.75 will be released Sept. 1st

Quote:

I’ve just heard from very unreliable sources that BiaB 2012.75 will be released Sept. 1st

Who.... Pat the parking lot protester?

The PAT MAKES ME LAUGH-O-METER

0_________________________/100

The DISAPPOINTED_BECAUSE_I_REALLY_HAD_BEEN_LOOKING_FORWARD_TO_A_DOT_5_O_METER:

0\______________________________100

Ole

I look at it this way:

IF there is no 2012.5, I'm enthusiastic about the notion that 2013 may have some significant changes and goodies that come along with it.

I can wait...

Cheers,
Mike

Hey Pat,

Maybe you could write a book about life in the Parking Lot

How you survived the stress, the self degrading,the wait, etc.

You would surely make a few sales...

Don't forget the LaughOMeter examples..

Looks like I have enough money to do that upgrade to Sibelius 7 after all.

Where can I download one of those meters, looks like they are good for any occasion?

Later,

I don't post often here but I am a long, long time user and supporter so I guess my two cents may be worth a couple of cents.

There are two reasons I am unhappy with the lack of information on a mid-year release.

First, I have a limited budget for software (and everything else) and if there is no 2012.5 then I would like to re-allocate my $300.00.

Second, I think that if it turns out that there is no .5, PG will be facing huge expectations with 2013. As much progress as they have made over the years the incremental upgrades have never been completely overwhelming - even the ones with very substantial new features.

If anyone is monitoring this thread, I think it would be nice to have a little feedback.

It's to the point where PG would almost have to give it out as a version upgrade. I realize that there is a lot of new advancements in the appland of phones and tablets, but let's keep the system as it has been. My wife and I ride Harleys, and here in Wisconsin it's hard enough to worry about critters and deer, now we deal with texting etc. Now we have to deal with people making music as they drive.........Can you picture it, someone driving down the road inputting chords in Biab, at the same time playing a trumpet for the next chord............who's steering the car!!!!!!!! bang, the car goes in the other lane, me and the wife are dead..........the driver of the car doesn't care he finished the song........... The only reason I bring this up is we lost a friend last week on a Harley at 5:30am on his way to work to a texting driver crossing the center line.........The police report is "it was an accident." That's a bunch of bull @#$%!!!!!!! Lets keep the music in the studio or back bedroom not out on the road!!!!!! Thanks for the vent session.

Quote:

It's to the point where PG would almost have to give it out as a version upgrade. I realize that there is a lot of new advancements in the appland of phones and tablets, but let's keep the system as it has been. My wife and I ride Harleys, and here in Wisconsin it's hard enough to worry about critters and deer, now we deal with texting etc. Now we have to deal with people making music as they drive.........Can you picture it, someone driving down the road inputting chords in Biab, at the same time playing a trumpet for the next chord............who's steering the car!!!!!!!! bang, the car goes in the other lane, me and the wife are dead..........the driver of the car doesn't care he finished the song........... The only reason I bring this up is we lost a friend last week on a Harley at 5:30am on his way to work to a texting driver crossing the center line.........The police report is "it was an accident." That's a bunch of bull @#$%!!!!!!! Lets keep the music in the studio or back bedroom not out on the road!!!!!! Thanks for the vent session.

I totally agree!

Texting and driving is against the law here in New York State. The local police force gave out a ton of tickets in the last month according to our local newspaper. I’d like to see their driving license taken away and their insurance costs go sky high.

My wife and I have had a couple of very close calls because of others who were texting and driving. If we were not on our toes we would have had some serious accidents.

I sorry for you loss.

Quote:

<...>The only reason I bring this up is we lost a friend last week on a Harley at 5:30am on his way to work to a texting driver crossing the center line.........The police report is "it was an accident." That's a bunch of bull @#$%!!!!!!! <...>

My old insurance company said that talking on a cell phone is just as dangerous as driving drunk, and texting is even worse.

Funny, back in the 80s, the MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) crusaded to get the drunk driving penalties increased. Driving while talking on the phone is as dangerous as driving while intoxicated. Where are they now? Talking on the phone while they are driving I suspect.

There should be a law that prohibits using a cell phone while driving. First offense, a big fine. Second offense, permanent revocation of your license.

And if someone gets killed while you are using your phone, mandatory involuntary manslaughter charges should be required.

I do a lot of driving, and the road that leads to my house is 15 miles of narrow 2 lane pavement with hills and curves. Plus there is no right-of-way as the road was built probably in the 20s or 30s and there is a lot of wildlife in the area. I often see people texting, talking on the phone, and otherwise not paying attention to staying in their lane. We lose a few people per year on this road.

Whether you are on a bike, car or truck, texting and phone talking people are endangering your life.

I am a live-and-let-live person, and I believe we should all have the right to pursue our happiness. But when your pursuit of happiness endangers that of your neighbor, that is where the line is drawn.

Please if your phone rings, pick up, say "hold on" and pull off the road to talk. Or better yet, let them leave a message and call them back when you are no longer driving.

Brand new 2012.5 updates from Norton Music:

2 new style disks for Band-in-a-Box
2 new free (with a purchase) fancy intro/ending disks for Real Band and other DAW's
The Ultimate Gospel Fake Disk
The Real Rock Fake Disk (plenty of classic rock in this one)
The Beatles Fake Disk
And an updated Christmas Fake Disk

Hundreds of Free .sgu and .mp3 demos for the above at: http://www.nortonmusic.com

Couldn't agree more Notes. The problem is the new cars themselves. A friend has a 2010 Camry, it has bluetooth built into the stereo system. All he did was hit the sync on his phone and it's linked to the car as soon as he puts the key in the ignition. There's a couple of mics built in and the sound goes through the stereo. My Mercedes is a 2001 but even that has built in phone capabilities using steering wheel controls. The stock system is way out of date now but I can buy a bluetooth adapter that will do the same thing the Camry does. I suspect all but the most basic new car models now have this feature. That means nobody can tell you're talking while you're driving because the bluetooth earpiece is not necessary any more. How can the cops ticket that? They could investigate after the fact by pulling your cell phone records but not just driving around.

Bob

RANT

Regarding driving while using the phone: Short version is--I don't judge you by my limitations. Please don't judge me by yours. If you can't talk and drive, don't do it, but leave my freedom to do so alone.

Here's where I'm coming from. My landlord is a fanatic on the subject. He runs a defensive driving course. He won't even talk to me on the phone if he thinks I'm driving. (What a control freak. He's a really nice guy otherwise.) He's never been able explain to me, nor, I suspect, will any of you, how talking on the phone is different from having a conservation with someone in the car with you. If you can't handle the phone you shouldn't be talking to anyone.

I drove a taxi for several years in Atlanta. If you can't multitask, i.e., do three to five things at a time, you shouldn't be doing it. We had to drive, monitor the radio, and interact with customers at a minimum. Cops perform different tasks but it's the same principle. I drove 250,000 miles like that with never a problem, and I was a lightweight.

Some people can barely handle one thing at a time. (We had one driver who missed radio calls because he was smoking a cigarette.) It's way too easy to get a license and way to hard to lose it. But please don't limit me by the lowest common denominator.

/RANT

Quote:

Couldn't agree more Notes. The problem is the new cars themselves. A friend has a 2010 Camry, it has bluetooth built into the stereo system. All he did was hit the sync on his phone and it's linked to the car as soon as he puts the key in the ignition. There's a couple of mics built in and the sound goes through the stereo. My Mercedes is a 2001 but even that has built in phone capabilities using steering wheel controls. The stock system is way out of date now but I can buy a bluetooth adapter that will do the same thing the Camry does. I suspect all but the most basic new car models now have this feature. That means nobody can tell you're talking while you're driving because the bluetooth earpiece is not necessary any more. How can the cops ticket that? They could investigate after the fact by pulling your cell phone records but not just driving around.

Bob

I think you're missing the point of having the built in bluetooth. Its illegal to talk on the phone only if you're holding it. Talking through built in bluetooth in your car is the same as having a conversation with someone sitting next to you and is perfectly legal otherwise car manufacturers wouldn't install it. Cops will only ticket you if they see you holding a phone.

I signed up to the forum in June to see if there were any updates regarding the 2012.5 release and I've been checking in a few times a week. I emailed PGMusic last night about the release and got this reply:

I'm sorry, but we've never announced release dates before a product is ready. I can tell you that it's coming soon though.
Thank you
Kent
PG Music

So, it sounds like there WILL be a 2012.5 release, and it's nice to know that it's coming... "soon".

You need to find out the time "reference". If he is talking in geological ages, then "soon" might be quite a while!

Even if he's only speaking in dog-years, you guys could be in trouble.

Quote:

I signed up to the forum in June to see if there were any updates regarding the 2012.5 release and I've been checking in a few times a week. I emailed PGMusic last night about the release and got this reply:

I'm sorry, but we've never announced release dates before a product is ready. I can tell you that it's coming soon though.
Thank you
Kent
PG Music

So, it sounds like there WILL be a 2012.5 release, and it's nice to know that it's coming... "soon".

thanks for posting that! It's all we really needed to know

OK. Now I have the 2012.5 fever too. Someone here told me the new version often comes at a discount and that, along with all the good things I'm hearing here about BIAB, has me just about convinced. So, I'm finding myself checking here every day to see if the 2012.5 is out yet!

Quote:

You need to find out the time "reference". If he is talking in geological ages, then "soon" might be quite a while!

Except that if it doesn't come out in 2012 then it's not the "2012.5" release...

I'm beginning to think by soon they mean December.

Quote:

I'm beginning to think by soon they mean December.

A geological blink of the eye! Huzzah!!

I drove a cab for a while when I was between bands. Getting an occasional dispatch on the radio is nothing like holding a phone against your ear and holding long conversation with someone. Plus most drivers are not as good as we cab drivers are. Because one in a thousand can handle a car while telephoning doesn't make it save when the other 999 are on a two lane road approaching us from the opposite direction with one hand on the wheel, one hand pressed against their ear, and their brain in the details of the kid's day in school, or the wedding details, or the problem with the amalgamated contract.

Back on topic.

If it comes out in August, it is no longer 2012.5, instead it is 2012.666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666667

Brand new 2012.5 updates from Norton Music:

2 new style disks for Band-in-a-Box
2 new free (with a purchase) fancy intro/ending disks for Real Band and other DAW's
The Ultimate Gospel Fake Disk
The Real Rock Fake Disk (plenty of classic rock in this one)
The Beatles Fake Disk
And an updated Christmas Fake Disk

Hundreds of Free .sgu and .mp3 demos for the above at: http://www.nortonmusic.com

This is beginning to remind me of a boy watching out for Grandpa's visit on Sunday. I have been visiting this site so many times that I feel if we could get rated for visits I could have a chance of catching up with Mac......

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I'm beginning to think by soon they mean December.

unless nobody at PGMusic is watching the forum (which is highly doubtful) they know that we've been wondering whether there will even BE a dot-five relase in 2012. In the context of that knowledge, to say SOON if they really meant DECEMBER would be monumentally ill-advised.

So, the little plastic MIDI guitar purchase will have to wait. My next online purchase will be 2012.5

(coming SOON to a shopping cart near YOU!)

---------------
according to Webster's New World Dictionary:
SOON (adverb)
1) in a short time
2) fast or quickly
3) a lot faster than December*

*(actually I made that last one up)

Pat I hope you are right but I'm beginning to lose faith. Even so I'm willing to wait a few more days before I give up and upgrade to Sibelius 7.

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OK. Now I have the 2012.5 fever too. Someone here told me the new version often comes at a discount and that, along with all the good things I'm hearing here about BIAB, has me just about convinced. So, I'm finding myself checking here every day to see if the 2012.5 is out yet!

John, don't worry about it, get it now. They always give new people the update if they've bought within 30 days of the release and I've heard of a few cases where it was longer than that. The company is very generous about that. Get familiar with it now, then the new stuff will be easier for you.

Bob

Has anybody considered the for the "Coming soon" announcement may have just been PG's way to get Pat out of the parking lot?

The guy with the leaf blower probably has a lot of cleaning up to do

Carkins

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Has anybody considered the for the "Coming soon" announcement may have just been PG's way to get Pat out of the parking lot?

The guy with the leaf blower probably has a lot of cleaning up to do

Carkins

Ouch! Dang, you may be right!

Speaking of the PGMusic parking lot... if you take the address shown on the CONTACT page
( http://www.pgmusic.com/contact.htm ) and plug it into Google maps, you'll find that there's a street view for this address. (I don't even see a parking lot there, which proves once again what an unreliable source I am)

So for the last six weeks you've been waiting in the WRONG parking lot???

In that case they have released it 6 weeks ago and nobody told Pat about it

Now the cat is out of the bag!

I know we are all having a bit of fun here, but in all seriouseness once we get into Septemeber its a short wait until middle of December and then anyone who wants to upgrade can get the whole lot and save the mid year (did I say mid year!) price.

It actually works out at around $60 when the maths is done for the ultra pak.

musiclover

Well if we actually get 2012.5 I'm beginning to wonder if that means we'll have to wait till 2013 to get the 2013 upgrade.

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I know we are all having a bit of fun here, but in all seriouseness once we get into Septemeber its a short wait until middle of December and then anyone who wants to upgrade can get the whole lot and save the mid year (did I say mid year!) price.

It actually works out at around $60 when the maths is done for the ultra pak.

musiclover

I tend to have less money available at Christmas, for obvious reasons... so it has made sense for me to upgrade at whatever time of year there was a reduced price and a bunch of new realtracks.

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This is beginning to remind me of a boy watching out for Grandpa's visit on Sunday. I have been visiting this site so many times that I feel if we could get rated for visits I could have a chance of catching up with Mac......

You need to do a lot of posting to catch up with Mac - the guy is legendary!!!

And I might add, one of the most valuable assets in this community.

Brand new 2012.5 updates from Norton Music:

2 new style disks for Band-in-a-Box
2 new free (with a purchase) fancy intro/ending disks for Real Band and other DAW's
The Ultimate Gospel Fake Disk
The Real Rock Fake Disk (plenty of classic rock in this one)
The Beatles Fake Disk
And an updated Christmas Fake Disk

Hundreds of Free .sgu and .mp3 demos for the above at: http://www.nortonmusic.com

good point

I just pulled up my "orders" folder in my email and found that on August 18, 2009, I ordered the audiophile version of BIAB. Since my habit has been to place my order for available upgrades within a day of their announcement, that would tend to indicate that in 2009, PG didn't release their mid year upgrade until mid-august.

that's encouraging news, Keith!
thanks for posting that!

Ditto (same day but I already said that)

and JUST got email Sonar X2 is coming out "this fall" yikes!! too much piling up at same time given I'm re-re-retired and my buying has slowed WAYYYY down

its here!

http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.htm

Second-time poster here

Looks like "soon" was reasonably soon. I checked again this morning and am pleased to see the .5 on the end.

I was hoping the special pricing would extend to people other than 2012 owners, but it looks like that's not the case - makes $ense for them I guess.

I have BIAB 2006 so I guess I can expect a few differences - although it looks like it still has the same interface basically.

The switch from 2006 to 2012.5 will have MANY new features.
You'll be amazed.

2006? Are you sure?

Lindsayward, welcome to the forum.

Version 2006 was before RealDrums (Dec. 2006) and RealTracks (Dec. 2007?). Rharv is right, you'll be amazed at the difference. It's far more than a few differences in features.

However, you asked specifically about the interface. This has not changed as substantially (maybe the mixer is the major addition, and VST handling) so you will immediately feel right at home. You'll just have a ton of great stuff added from which to choose.

Yeah, that's like saying a 1929 Ford Model T has 4 wheels, brake and gas pedals and a steering wheel so that means the 2012 model is similar right? Uhh, no.

I wouldn't have a clue where to begin to list the differences. Let's see, Real Tracks/Drums, multiple VST's, Freeze Tracks, the Mixer, vastly better time stretch/pitch shift of audio, Drag and Drop to a DAW, the Conductor, the mind boggles.

Bob

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its here!

http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.htm

It is! And it's even got madd2 chords at long last! Whoo hoo!

I'm in! Downloading it now...

Thanks for the welcome - hopefully I'm not so "suspect" now

I'm waiting for all those GBs to download, so I haven't got my hands on the RealTracks yet. It seems like those are the main differences. I switched to the Coyote VSTi for MIDI playback but couldn't really tell the difference. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but it sounds the same as 2006 or the stock MIDI option.

... PRO part downloaded, MEGA to come ...

OK, now playing my first sample song with RealTracks - VERY nice!
This is going to make my play-along practice a more enjoyable and "real" experience. I'm smiling

You said Coyote VSTi. If the word Forte is not in there then there is no difference from your basic Windows midi sound. All the Coyote does is allow you to do fast rendering and play along with less latency. The actual sound quality is still your basic el cheapo Windows Wavetable. You now have Supertracks. You must save up and buy a good midi synth. Listen to the demo's Peter posted using Garritan. A good synth meand good midi sound.

Bob

Thanks for the reply. I'm glad I couldn't hear the difference if there wasn't one

I have used Garritan (orchestral version) for Finale and it's great indeed. I've also got Kontakt 3, but it seems like overkill for a nicer sound to practise with.
What is the "Forte" thing you mention?

Coyote Forte is a General MIDI soft synth that will work on 64-bit systems. It is available through PG Music.

I use Coyote Forte on my Win7 laptop and have to say that the sounds...especially the RT sounds are "really good." WAY good enough for woodshed practice and a serious contender for use on gigs.

I haven't done the 12.5 upgrade but I assume the new midi tracks will sould really good too.

Having said all that...I've been looking into the Garritan Jazz & big Band product and the sounds are just awesome!

For "a buck and a half" or so, it is RAPIDLY moving up on my list of must have stuff.

Best,
Jim

Yes I also use Forte but am considering Gsrritan. Is it worth the upgrade? The demo on the GPO site is outstanding, but this does not necessarilt mean that BIAB would sound good. I also wonder what the set up is like is it simple?

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Yes I also use Forte but am considering Gsrritan. Is it worth the upgrade? The demo on the GPO site is outstanding, but this does not necessarilt mean that BIAB would sound good. I also wonder what the set up is like is it simple?

I too would be greatly interested in a discussion of Garritan...in the context of its functionality in BIAB...thereby making such a discussion appropriate to this forum.

I would be especially interested in how "idiot proof" the installation of Garritan is within BIAB is. (a requirement in my case) (-:

I am also interested in how correct...or incorrect...my assumptions about Garritan are which are....it is a software "sample player" which I assume are digital samples and therefore more like RealTracks than "tweaked midi" (no disrespect re: tweaked midi which can be made to sound very good).

THANKS!!!!

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I use Coyote Forte on my Win7 laptop and have to say that the sounds...especially the RT sounds are "really good." WAY good enough for woodshed practice and a serious contender for use on gigs.

Jim, not sure if you know what you wrote here. The midi synth you use has nothing to do with how the Real Tracks sound. Bob's Mantra: "Midi is not audio, audio is not midi.....Ommmmmmm."

Your last question about Garritan also needs explanation. The Forte DXi is a GM synth, Garritan is not. The difference is convenience and ease of use. The big deal about GM is all you do is pick the synth and all the instruments load and are ready for use. When you pick your song in Biab, it just plays. A non GM synth is completely different. The samples are usually too large to load and they're not organized to the GM standard anyway. That means you have to manually select each instrument first, then hit play. When you pick another song you have to do that again.

Some people when they realize that difference decide that the better sounds of a non GM synth isn't worth the bother of having to set up each song manually just for casual listening or playing around. If there's a song you really want to sound the best, you're going to put it on a CD to send out to friends or whatever then you do it with the better synth and make a real production out of it. All of this is simply your choice as to how you want to work.

Bob

Jazzmammal wrote..."Jim, not sure if you know what you wrote here. "

HA!! I knew what I wrote...but obviously didn't write what I know.

Thanks Jazzmamman!

Sometimes...too often...I seem to be able to type faster than I think!! I knew that RT is audio and midi is midi. Just a brain cramp. Thanks for pointing that out.

Re: Garritan and GM in general I was NOT aware that Garritan is not GM-based and for the exact reasons you so kindly explained, you just saved me $150.00!! Garritan would be overkill for my uses...especially with the seemingly constant improvement in the BIAB sounds.

THANKS!

Now, I'll go into the closet and shake until my embarrassment wears off!!

(-:

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Now, I'll go into the closet and shake until my embarrassment wears off!!

Sounds like a song to me...

Bob

Thanks for the responses. I'm downloading the Coyote Forte demo now.
Are there other GM synths worth comparing for this? I know there are lots out there; I'm asking if anyone has any recommendations - are any better than Coyote Forte?

This is a good question that gets asked periodically, but it will be buried here. May I suggest you start a new thread?

I can't advise because I'm still using a hardware synth from Roland.