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Hi Everyone, I am really not a "negative Ned" type person but I am just not seeing the features & benefits of This 2012.5 or even the 2012 version of B/Box........

I am open to the idea that I may just not understand some of the new features ........Im hoping someone can explain or point me to a specific tutorial..... I think B/Box is fantastic overall.......but again unless its me a lot of the new stuff seems like its a bunch of "fluff" and not really useful?

How many swing styles and Bossa-Latin Styles and tracks do we need? Same with Pop, Rock, Blues etc etc......

I could see the value of Super Midi Tracks for the Melodist and Soloist....Is that on the way? Perhaps super midi tracks for Guitar Chord melodies or Solos or Melodies that also show notation..........Now thats exciting! But how many styles do we need?!

Why are the 176 new "simple real tracks something of value? Does that means the others are too complicated?

I forgot the name of this item......but why is being able to Edit a track and change it from say clean guitar to distortion? Why not use the correct one in the first place?

Thanks in advance for any explanation/ help it will be greatly appreciated! BBB
Hi BBB,

What version of BIAB do you have?

Regards,
Noel
Quote:


How many swing styles and Bossa-Latin Styles and tracks do we need? Same with Pop, Rock, Blues etc etc.






An infinite number. We will always need just one more.
I do get your point this was not a massive upgrade in my opinion, and PG like anoy other company need to keep outputting updates to get cash in - your cash. However, I do feel that the Rt's alone are worth the upgrade price - compare that to buying some playalong CD's one for each key. Just my view.
Quote:

I do get your point this was not a massive upgrade in my opinion, and PG like anoy other company need to keep outputting updates to get cash in - your cash. However, I do feel that the Rt's alone are worth the upgrade price - compare that to buying some playalong CD's one for each key. Just my view.




Zerozero, I agree with your comments with one exception. I think the upgrade price is worth it because of the SuperTracks. I am waiting for the RTs to arrive via snail mail but I Dled the BiaB with the STs immediately.

I find the fact that this one piece of software can be used in so many different ways amazing!
For me the new Jon Jarvis piano styles and the way the Supermidis brought life to the midis made the upgrade worthwhile (for me)

But then everytime after studying the new features and real track list i realise that i need my upgrade just as much as my wife need those new shoes!
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But then everytime after studying the new features and real track list i realise that i need my upgrade just as much as my wife need those new shoes!




Now there's a man who gets it!

later,
Since it's the genre I compose music for, I would have purchased 2012.5 if the only changes were the new Son Montuno and Bolero RealTracks.

SuperTracks are in their infancy and will surely develop more like the RealTracks did. And every version contains those little improvements in core function and/or stability that move the program's evolution forward.
I have 2012 version 350.

this will be the first time I dont upgrade at least as of now.
Is it the Ultrapak? Or, the basic Pro version? Do you have all the RT's and are you familiar with them? Your question is a good one, it all depends on what you're trying to do with the program.

The key question is what kind of stuff do you do? What do you use the program for?

Bob
I have all the real tracks......Its Ultra,or Mega or Everything.?..im not sure how you tell but its "fully loaded"

I use it as backing tracks to make recordings with, Teaching purposes, scale generator etc etc. self instruction...being a guitarist the Oliver R Tracks comp & solo and Midi Create a chord Melody items are nice.......

im sure there are other features that I would love if I knew what and how they work.

I think there are probably MANY people such as myself that dont want to publicly embarrass themselves that arent aware of the capabilities of the program.......and how to use it.......

a Band In a Box For Dummies Book or Tutorial would be great!
Good one Danny well said and LOL !
This is funny.

Last several gorounds, the complaint was about there being TOO MANY New Features with every release...


--Mac
You can't please all the... you can please some of the........people pleaser's are sort of ...... please pass the ....... i past pleasing! .... oh PuhLease!

Never mind, just play another tune please!
Mac,

Quote:

This is funny.

Last several go rounds, the complaint was about there being TOO MANY New Features with every release...




I’ve gotta admit, … I do understand where BBB is coming from. Up until version 2009, I’ve bought every new release. But every time I did, I sat there wondering, … “What the hell did I just pay a sh*tload of money for?”

It looks the same, … it acts the same, …… Maybe it should’ve been a free patch?

I get paying for new RT’s and RS’s, but I do have trouble paying for things that BIAB didn’t handle correctly and it’s now fixed.

If I take the position of the "Devil's Advocate", ... I also understand where PG is coming from. If people are willing to PAY for “fixes”, …why not charge them for them in the form of a “NEW VERSION” ??? Especially if you can do it TWICE a year and have faithful followers pay hundreds of dollars EACH to make sure they have the latest and greatest? Even if they can’t tell the difference between the old and the new! Also, you should make sure to financially punish the ones who don't upgrade TWICE a year!

I wish they’d just release new “versions” ONLY when they’ve made MAJOR changes and charge for RT’s, RS’s and Super Midi whatever on a separate basis.

Fixes to the program should be in the form of free patches. Not UPGRADES!

Unless of course you can get people to PAY for them.

But of course, ... this is just my honest opinion, ... or JMHO.
Quote:

Fixes to the program should be in the form of free patches. Not UPGRADES!




But this would mean maintaining and supporting the code base of a number of previous versions back. The implication would be that if I fix a feature in the current version that was also present in a previous version, then the fix should be provided for each version. Wouldn't that be difficult for a small company to do? Just asking.
New Features and added RealTracks aren't "fixes"...



--Mac
Quote:

Mac,

Quote:

This is funny.

Last several go rounds, the complaint was about there being TOO MANY New Features with every release...




I’ve gotta admit, … I do understand where BBB is coming from. Up until version 2009, I’ve bought every new release. But every time I did, I sat there wondering, … “What the hell did I just pay a sh*tload of money for?”

It looks the same, … it acts the same, …… Maybe it should’ve been a free patch?

I get paying for new RT’s and RS’s, but I do have trouble paying for things that BIAB didn’t handle correctly and it’s now fixed.

If I take the position of the "Devil's Advocate", ... I also understand where PG is coming from. If people are willing to PAY for “fixes”, …why not charge them for them in the form of a “NEW VERSION” ??? Especially if you can do it TWICE a year and have faithful followers pay hundreds of dollars EACH to make sure they have the latest and greatest? Even if they can’t tell the difference between the old and the new! Also, you should make sure to financially punish the ones who don't upgrade TWICE a year!

I wish they’d just release new “versions” ONLY when they’ve made MAJOR changes and charge for RT’s, RS’s and Super Midi whatever on a separate basis.

Fixes to the program should be in the form of free patches. Not UPGRADES!

Unless of course you can get people to PAY for them.

But of course, ... this is just my honest opinion, ... or JMHO.




There are free patches provided, for example:

http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm

There's also free updates for RealTracks and RealDrums etc. So if RealTracks that you've already bought in the past are improved then you can download a free update for them.

As I recall each major release has loads of new features - and if you want you certainly can buy the new RealTracks separately. It's just that it's usually no more expensive (if not cheaper) to buy RealTracks bundled with the new versions when they are first released.

I certainly don't feel like I'm buying a new version to get "fixes" for the previous version. I buy it because I want the new features and it's nice to get a bundle with new RealTracks etc.

I don't see that there is any special "punishment" for people that don't upgrade twice a year. The upgrades from much earlier versions are usually only about $20-30 more than from the more recent versions - it would cost far more than that to upgrade twice a year.

Also there is this:

"Registered users of our programs are entitled to unlimited technical support for our software. You are already registered if you purchased directly from us."

If you are using an older version and you want something fixed, read the previous paragraph.
I call bs on this one. Fixes are always free patches to the current version. There are patches issued for previous version all the time, just go back and look at the previous versions and the patches.

As far as a shitload of money, that too is BS. Compared to what? The national debt of Canada?

As has been pointed out countless times, if you don't want to buy the upgrade, don't.

I have no idea of the installed base. It has to be WAY larger than we think, or they could not stay in business. Do the math.

I'd now like you to publish for MY edification the list of stuff you are sure does not work. Put the problems where your post is, or as is said in the vernacular, you money where your.....you get it.

The support is there. Have the support staff told you there is NO help for you?

When it comes to features, something the software did not do is that supposed to be free?

So if you want banjo parts for left handed amputees and they go ahead and implement that is it a fix or a new feature.

As far as I'm concerned your post really pushed my buttons.

It seems you are perpetually dissatisfied with the software, yet you hang in here. Why?

I'm going out to the garage now and smack the heavy bag as hard as I can, osteoporosis be dammed.
I'm sorry,it appears that the upgrade from previous versions, including both download and DVD sent to your house is 79 bucks.

That is HUGE. Of course the servers and the mail, the DVD production cost and all that aside, most guys would have to sell the farm to afford that right?

Wow.

Maybe we could take up a collection for Bob. I'll gladly pay PG music half the cost.
FWIW...I'm somewhere in the middle of...the post is OK and the post is BS.

We really can't complain about a lack of new features when we admit from the get go that we haven't read the MOUNTAIN of Users Guide and tutorials.

I don't recall exactly but I think the User's Guide is like 300+ pages and there are HOURS of tutorials.

From what I can tell on this forum...the advanced users who have taken the time and trouble to REALLY dig into the software know pretty much immediately what the new features are...i.e. they GET IT...but have invested a BUNCH of time in getting as good as they are.

So, I think it is unfair to criticize the functionality of the software unless and until we have figured out how do use it.

And as others have pointed out, the additional RTs and the new Super Midis are worth the price of the entire upgrade. (I'm waiting for 2013 so I can't testify to the new midi tracks but even the 2010.5 RTs I have are KILLER in most cases.

On the other hand...twice a year upgrades my dilute the IMPACT of the new version vs. the existing. But keep in mind that a LOT of people (hopefully) are first time buyers and aren't "upgrading" at all.

So, as has been pointed out...if 2 a year doesn't float your boat, then don't buy 2 a year. I've bought in about every second or third year and haven't had any seizures in the meantime! (-:

Finally, in the price is the FABULOUS tech support from the PG folks which in my rather broad experience with tech support...being essentially a tech nincompoop...is THE best of breed...and I can't think of any other company that is even CLOSE.

That would be good enough but when supplemented by all the really talented and experienced users on this forum...it's just game, set and match for BIAB from a tech support point of view.

That is to be appreciated AND supported financially whenever doing so makes any sense at all for the user.

Best,
Jim
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im sure there are other features that I would love if I knew what and how they work.

I think there are probably MANY people such as myself that dont want to publicly embarrass themselves that arent aware of the capabilities of the program.......and how to use it.......

a Band In a Box For Dummies Book or Tutorial would be great!




Band In a Box for Dummies is basically this forum.

My advice is don't worry about it right now. All the latest upgrades, RT's, Supertracks and whatever the Next Big Thing happens to be will be available in all the subsequent versions and you can get completely caught up later. I agree with you, this is a daunting program, there's tons of features when you start digging beyond the basic "enter the chords and hit play" thing. The beauty of the program is pretty much anybody can do that in the first five minutes but, once you've done that and your musicians ears tell you something is missing, that's when the really deep stuff begins to emerge and that will take time for you to learn. After you've learned that then you will begin to think, gee, can I make it do this? That's when somebody will say oh yeah, that was introduced in the last update and then you can decide if you want to pay for it or not.

This program is a continual work in progress that is heavily influenced by us users. PG really does read suggestions here and will implement a lot of them but then they also come up with brand new things we never thought of.

The thing about computers is the programming. Biab is totally musical in that PG pretty much follows classical music concepts but due to computer and programming protocols things are done that while the end result is very musical, the way you have to accomplish it may not make immediate sense.

Bob
How can there ever be too many styles???
All it needs is to have a good style picker and search options, so the wanted style can be found easiily. This can always be improved - d`accord.

You wouldn`t ***** about having too many different car brands on the market, would you? Of course, we can always go back to the old German Democratic Republic times and drive Trabants only. But I doubt, that`s what you really want.

So just benefit from all those styles and try to filter your search results. Dig into the programm and you`ll soon find your favorite styles. And even if there are only 10 styles you`ll like and/or need, they probably weren`t there, if the programm had only, say, 20 different styles.

Enjoy the programm.
Sandra
I personally consider the upgrade a buy if I get one decent usable real track from it. The way I figure it is it would cost me a minimum of $50 per hour to get someone in to play a part for me. Two hours in the studio and it's cost me $100. I get the real tracks (101 every update) and use just one for my track and I'm even. Of course I get more than one useable real track in every upgrade so the others are just bonus. Now all of the other upgrades from upgrade to upgrade are also just gravy for me. If I don't use a thing in the new upgrade now I may later. I love BIAB. Don't use Real Band. So what? It's still there and someday I might.

I'm sorry but I can not NOT justify buying the upgrade every 6 months. I would probably buy an upgrade of BIAB every month if it was offered that way. And I really don't use it that much because I'm to busy with everything else! But when I do use it, its there and every thing that comes with it is there. I don't drink or run women so the wife lets me do BIAB. What a deal!
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