My friend loves BIAB and has been telling me to buy it for years. Finally with BIAB having some of its new features I went to buy the $149 basic version Sunday. However at the last minute after filling out a few screens I decided not to make the purchase. Here are my reasons.
** I had a version of CakeWalk that came with my Machine purchase and I tried to do overdubbing on my machine and it would not work and I never resolved it (their support did not assist).
** BIAB has no 30 day trial and I normally only buy software, which has a trial (operating system excepted). To me it is very strange that BIAB does not have a trial to ensure that overdubbing and midi is working.
** Yes Pgmusic says I can return it if I do not like the product but they do not say how long it takes to get my money back (big difference) and I like to see hard evidence that a company stands behind their return policies such as the lineup at the Wallmart return desk (return time depends on the lineup size only). I find it hard to believe an online software sales company will return their product 100% free of hassles when the user could just keep using the product. They would be ripe for abuse unless they have a call home to mother feature like MultiCharts has so they could cut off the use. I have MultiCharts and trust me, we are better off with a free trial feature than an on-line call home to mother feature.
I don’t suppose there is someone out there running the basic $149 BIAB/RB install on this machine.
Thanks,
John
46.6 gig free disk space (should be enough for the basic $149 package I figure)
Motherboard: MSI K9VGM-V
AMD Athlon 64 X 2 Dual
core processor 3600+
1.90 GHz
2.00 GB of Ram Physical address extension.
Running XP Pro Corp with 3rd SP installed.
Device Manager sound:
Audio codecs
Realtek High definition audio
I do not have a midi driver installed for midi input yet but windows C:\WINDOWS\Media .mid files will play.
I realize this is less likely to be important but here it is just incase.
3 monitor setup with the video on the mother board disabled and replaced by these two PCI cards:
Video: NVIDIA GeForce 6200
Video: NVIDIA GeForce 7300 SE/7200 GS
To my knowledge, there is a 30 day trial on all PG products. As far as the refund policy, I have purchased, using a credit card, several RealTrack sets that I was not happy with. After calling PG, the credits appeared on my next credit card statement. I was amazed that they did not even want to know why I was requesting the refund although I told them anyway.
R
There used to be a demo version but it became impractical because of the size of the RealTracks.
bowlesj,
Have you tried the Cakewalk forum ?
http://forum.cakewalk.com/default.aspxWhich version of Cakewalk you're having ? I'm using X1 Producer. If you're using X1, you can pm me and see if I understand what you wish to do, or head to the forum so more people can help out.
Cheers.
That's a good suggestion, to try your question on the SONAR forum. Several of us here are on both, but you'll have a better chance there for SONAR questions. Be sure to describe your system and problem in as much detail as possible.
For another approach: BIAB comes with its own DAW called RealBand. It's free with BIAB. That might be all you need for recording.
Quote:
My friend loves BIAB and has been telling me to buy it for years. Finally with BIAB having some of its new features I went to buy the $149 basic version Sunday. However at the last minute after filling out a few screens I decided not to make the purchase. Here are my reasons.
** I had a version of CakeWalk that came with my Machine purchase and I tried to do overdubbing on my machine and it would not work and I never resolved it (their support did not assist).
** BIAB has no 30 day trial and I normally only buy software, which has a trial (operating system excepted). To me it is very strange that BIAB does not have a trial to ensure that overdubbing and midi is working.
** Yes Pgmusic says I can return it if I do not like the product but they do not say how long it takes to get my money back (big difference) and I like to see hard evidence that a company stands behind their return policies such as the lineup at the Wallmart return desk (return time depends on the lineup size only). I find it hard to believe an online software sales company will return their product 100% free of hassles when the user could just keep using the product. They would be ripe for abuse unless they have a call home to mother feature like MultiCharts has so they could cut off the use. I have MultiCharts and trust me, we are better off with a free trial feature than an on-line call home to mother feature.
I don’t suppose there is someone out there running the basic $149 BIAB/RB install on this machine.
Thanks,
John
46.6 gig free disk space (should be enough for the basic $149 package I figure)
Motherboard: MSI K9VGM-V
AMD Athlon 64 X 2 Dual
core processor 3600+
1.90 GHz
2.00 GB of Ram Physical address extension.
Running XP Pro Corp with 3rd SP installed.
Device Manager sound:
Audio codecs
Realtek High definition audio
I do not have a midi driver installed for midi input yet but windows C:\WINDOWS\Media .mid files will play.
I realize this is less likely to be important but here it is just incase.
3 monitor setup with the video on the mother board disabled and replaced by these two PCI cards:
Video: NVIDIA GeForce 6200
Video: NVIDIA GeForce 7300 SE/7200 GS
Well some folks have escaped the pitfall that most people of this day and age fall into. That is distrust of our fellow man. Peter Gannon is a man, and thus his Co., that trusts his fellow man. This speaks volumes!!
Not only is Dr.Gannon trust worthy, but his staff and everyone
there I've contacted for one reason or the other are fantastic.
I'm retired, not missing any meals, gotta watch $$$, but their
music products have given me nothing but joy and a great hobby.
Another thing you don't have to pay for other than being polite
and helpful are the outstanding folks on these forums.
Some are Pro's for many years and some like me just try to pay back
a little bit.
I view/use these forums as an invaluable set of tools to help us learn
and enjoy PG products, and of course music.
Thanks guys.
My version of Cakewalk is pretty old. It came with a Win95 install system but still ran on XP (which is when I finally tried it and started using it after having quit guitar for 22 years and finally coming back to it). Its age is probably why they did not care to support it (even though I may have upgraded if they did). The other thing that happened is I reformatted my drive and re-installed cakewalk and my prior Cakewalk recordings could not be read by the new install. That was one reason I got interested in BIAB because I figured that would not happen with BIAB. I think I am all cakewalked out :-) Hah, it is no piece of cake :-) Sorry, I could not resist.
Being trusting is an interesting phenomena. It tends to begin to end when you start to run across people who can not be trusted and you become their victim. Being a numbers game at heart most people tend to get less trusting as they get older and some are just very lucky. I was tempted to include a new joke but I think I pushed my luck with the last one.
I think offering a free trial of the core engine and maybe one real track is probably all that they would need. Just enough to test all the feature (including notation for exmaple). There is no need to go overboard. It probably would save a lot of labor on returns too for both parties. It is called the "teddy bear" sales technique. Software companies use it because they know it is probably the most powerful marketing technique of all. In my case I figured I would be happy with the program if my machine did not cause a problem (like I said my friend of over 30 years love BIAB so I figure I can't go wrong if it will run that is). It is just that I am in no position to upgrade my machine these days so if it does not run I have no choice but to return it rather than start trying to figure out why and making it run. I am use to creating my own rhythm tracks. LOL - that old cakewalk was a big improvement over what I use to do before computers.
Just my 2 cents but seems to me you could ask your "friend of 30 years" to try whatever it is that you want to try...or go use his machine if he lives nearby.
Also, questioning biab's return policy and suggesting that they offer a dumbed down demo seems counter-productive. If you can get the FULL program and return it for a refund...which you can...it just doesn't get much better than that.
Best,
Jim
Yes, you can buy the program, and return it within 30 days for a refund - no questions asked. This has been our policy for 20+ years, and we haven't had problems with it.
John, here's a thread from six weeks ago started by your namesake asking many questions centered around "Why should I buy Biab?. It may help you.
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=370587&an=0&page=3#Post370587Bob
I just got off the phone with Kent at PG Music. He quickly gave me the answer to a problem that popped up today when I used BIAB. It was easy and painless.
I've benn using BIAB for about 10 years now. I started with the basic program and quickly started adding stuff on. Never a problem that couldn't be fixed. It was usually due to something I did wrong.
There's no way you'll regret getting BIAB. The only caveat...it's addictive.
Enjoy with peace of mind.
Robert
Thanks guys,
Do they have a 1-800 number or something?
Okay I have decided to do a test. I will download the $149 version after super, install it, try to figure out within the hour how to get a basic Gma7 chord track out (anything - it does not matter - the simpler and faster the better), then I put my headsets on to hear the track and feed my guitar amp to the Microphone I already have set up which records to Audacity and if I can figure out how to get it to record then figure out how to play back the Gma7 track and my recording then it is a keeper. It is real simple, if it will do this I am pretty sure it will do everything else. So if someone can point me to a real simple tutorial that can get me up and running within an hour to do this test it would be really appreciated.
If this fails then I will return it so I also need to know how to return it before I do the download. Do I email them?
Thanks again,
John
Quote:
Do they have a 1-800 number or something?
Of course:
Sales: 1-800-268-6272, 250-475-2874,
+ 800-4746-8742 *
Support: 1-866-983-2474, 250-475-2708,
+ 800-4746-8742 *
Quote:
...try to figure out within the hour how to get a basic Gma7 chord track out (anything - it does not matter - the simpler and faster the better), then I put my headsets on to hear the track and feed my guitar amp to the Microphone I already have set up which records to Audacity and if I can figure out how to get it to record then figure out how to play back the Gma7 track and my recording then it is a keeper.
...If this fails then I will return it, John
John, whats the rush? Unless you have a major case of ADD, take the full 30 days - this program is not trival. Actually BAIB is very powerful and with that power comes complexity which needs to be mastered adn that takes time.
But I have a bigger concern. You have a buddy who has advised, so certainly he told you BIAB is not a replacement for Cakewalk. These are two different applications. While there will be overlap you do understand the fundemental difference between a DAW and the accompaniment capabilites of BIAB, don't you?
I don't think people understand the problem (maybe everyone has a BIAB inferiority complex). The problem has absolutely nothing to do with BIAB in any way shape or form. Trust me I trust BIAB. Like I said, I have a friend who I have known for 32 years who has been using BIAB for years (I would say at least 10 years and he just upgraded to get the full disk drive). My concern has to do with my computer setup and the fact that I do not have time unfortunately to fiddle with it nor the time to replace it if it is going to create a problem. This is why I wish they had a trial download. It would be so much simpler and this thread would not even exist if they had that trial. It would be easy, I download it, it does not work, I blame my computer and later when I get a new computer (maybe 3 years from now) I download it again and it works. This is the industry standard which I am use to and I have no complaints about it. Maybe that is because I left the music business at age 26 to become a programmer so it seems like the norm to me and 100% logical in my way of thinking.
Having said all that maybe that test will work. What I might do is try and figure out how to do that test before I down load it. If there is a manual out there (another industry standard these days) I will poke through it first on the weekend when I have a bit more time.
I will say it again, I think BIAB sales would be higher if they had a trial version mainly because it is a good program and it then becomes so easy to try. The way PGmusic has it set up it becomes more difficult. I have probably downloaded 25 trials that I uninstalled that did not work for some reason or another (it is fast and painless and easily forgotten within 5 minutes). That is a lot less time that this thread has taken and less time than trying to figure out how to get the money back. The good thing about BIAB is if it does not work I know to blame my computer and try it later.
Quote:
I... My concern has to do with my computer setup and the fact that I do not have time unfortunately to fiddle with it nor the time to replace it if it is going to create a problem. This is why I wish they had a trial download.
Opps, your right I missed that. It happens in long (even short) threads. OK, I hear you - yes I can almost quarentee you that you will have to do some fiddlein and it will take time, regardless of the computer and your setup. Good Luck 
bowles. I have had BIAB for over 10 years myself and still don't have a clue as to how to use 1/10the of the program. I have a degree from a community college (AA) in programing. Took a couple of semesters of classes in ProTools. I still can not get these programs to do what I think they should do in an easy way. Some people learn quicker than others. I also have to go back and relearn how to do transparency behind a picture in Photoshop every time I need to do it. That doesn't mean Photoshop is a bad program or that ProTools, Sonor or BIAB are bad programs. What it means in my case is I need to do work with something every day, day in and day out until the process becomes second nature. BIAB is a huge program. If you go to the support page of pgmusic.com you will find tutorials you can browse b4 buying. But as to your computer. The main functions of doing the auto accompliment with MIDI will run on a 486-25mgz. I know cause I did it. One major problem with ANY recording playback computer system is latancy. I faught with that problem for years and allowed it to keep me from getting to use the system the way I wanted to. If you want to play a soft synth along with your program, BIAB, Sonor, Reaper, whatever you are going to run into this problem on a regular old computer. The anwwer is to fiddle and find ASIO4All and maybe that will correct the problem Maybe not. What WILL correct the problem is an audio interface at a cost of $100+ . Once I quit messing around and got the interface all of the programs started working better. BUT none of them work automatically. Stop and think about it. Why do colleges all over the country offer programs on how to use Word, Excell. Access, PowerlPoint, DreamWeaver, Flash etc, etc, etc. If you know how to work this stuff you don't need classes but 90% of the folks that want to use these programs need the classes.
BIAB will do what it says and do it simply. Try and do the same thing note by note, track by track in a standard DAW and you are really gonna find out how hard making music on your computer is. I would also remind you that you didn't learn how to play the guitar in an evening.
OH, and as dumb as it sounds, Yes PGMusci will refund your $ if you ask for them to do so immediately by credit card. They NEVER charge for there support line. I have never had to wait beyond the second or third ring AND once in 10 years was asked if I would mind holding because there was a backlog of calls concerning the newest upgrade stuff that folks where having problems understanding.
I own several professional DAW's. ProTools 8LE (at a cost of over $$500., Sonor X1, Reaper 4.0. I subscribe to Computer Music mag out of England and have vanity tags on my van that says 'IDOMIDI". In my humble opinion the best money I ever invested in any of this stuff was for my BIAB and the upgrades. With the every 6 month upgrades and new RealTracks I'm sure I have invested over a thousand dollars wrapped up in it. If I live along enough (and I hope to) I will have no problem with investing another thousand into it.
As others have said, buy it and give it a real going over. You will love it or you will call or email and get a refund. PG is confident enough in there product that they believe you won't want to return it. So am I.
Quote:
have vanity tags on my van that says 'IDOMIDI".
OMG, I have "JZMNDAN", aren't we geeky. 
Sorry guys. I am going to come back tomorrow to read your posts a bit better. I just wanted to get this example in that will make my point about trials really obvious. I had forgotten about it.
One day I decided I wanted a program to append .wav files. Okay so no one I asked on the MultiCharts forum knew of one. So I went to google and did a lot of searching. Within 30 to 60 minutes I found about 5 of them, downloaded them one by one as free trials (some were just free), kept uninstalling them until I found one that only had one thing I did not like much but found a work around for. I kept it. Could you imagine if I had to pay $50 to try each one out with a promise that they would return the money. Just imagine the time I would have had to spend dealing with this. No chance. I do not think anyone in their right mind would want to be having to try and get their money back from the 4 looser of the 5 programs I tried that night. I guarantee that when BIAB finally has 5 competitors they will be forced to have a free trial because the other competitors will force them by doing it first.
To do justice to the program it needs to be very big.
It does not come with a dongle, restrictions on where to install it.
It implies that you have a level of honesty. Really, you could obviously get it, keep it, and return the hard drive. That's not fair, but you are expected to be fair.
There are loads of samples of what it can do.
And video tutorials.
I'd suggest you watch the first few tutorials, listen to the examples of output available on line, and then come back with further questions.
And, there is no salesperson sending you spurious emails about a deal now, buy before midnight, or next week and get a percentage off. Standards in the industry also.
If this was a very simple program, you could learn it in a few hours, and be bored with it in a few days. It sure is not that.
There are midi guys, realtracks guys, guys who do both, and those who just are working towards a solution without a prejudice one way or the other.
There is only one guy here with a vested interest in promoting an add on product and you can make your own mind up about that.
I just have 4 keyboards, 2 modules, and some good gear. And I've lost interest to a large degree, based on health issues and family problems with aged parents who take up a lot of time.
Quote:
I will download the $149 version after super, install it, try to figure out within the hour how to get a basic Gma7 chord track out (anything - it does not matter - the simpler and faster the better), then I put my headsets on to hear the track
So, you're familiar with configuring your computer with audio and midi setups then? You know what latency settings are, what a midi device is, what a soft synth is, whether or not to use ASIO or MME, and a few other things I can't think of right now. If not, that alone will take more than an hour. Once you've got the set up and config done then lets look at your request:
1. Hit file>new
2. Click on Style and wait for the styles list to rebuild then select anything.
3. Put your cursor in the first chord cell and left click.
4. Type Gmaj7 or G7 or any kind of G like Gm7b5 or whatever.
5. Hit the Play button.
If you hear a song start playing your G chord then the basic config is ok and you have sound. Next:
Quote:
...and feed my guitar amp to the Microphone I already have set up which records to Audacity and if I can figure out how to get it to record then figure out how to play back the Gma7 track and my recording then it is a keeper.
I don't understand this. Feed your amp to the mic? Is your mic carnivore or something? Seriously, I assume you mean your mic is plugged into your computer and you put the mic next to your amp. Why not just route the mic input inside Biab like you did for Audacity and record it onto Biab's audio track? No need for Audacity. Biab includes the Amplitude guitar plugin to emulate all kinds of effects, amps and cabinets. Many times though when you're playing an audio track with midi tracks inside Biab you will hear the audio out of sync. That happens or not and depends on you guessed it, your setup and is part of you understanding digital audio/midi recording and how to config everything. The cure for that is to offset the audio track if you do hear it out of sync. If you can understand the config set up quickly then what I'm describing takes like 2 minutes for you to do or 30 seconds for an experienced user not including the time spent grinning and playing. I can tell you this, it can take a lot of noob's the better part of a weekend to figure out the settings if they've never set up a DAW before. I don't know your background with digital audio/recording, it may go very fast for you.
Have fun,
Bob
From your posts, it sounds to me like you've already convinced yourself that BIAB is not for you.. I would suggest you try your friend's program, or just stay with a known free program, (e.g. Reaper).. BIAB is a wonderful program, even an illiterate computer guy like me can run it & get some decent backing tracks with it.. Real Band is a great DAW, but I don't blame PG Music for not giving free Trials, they do give a money back guarantee, & no one can give better than that, full refund, no questions..
But if you don't like their policy & evidently you don't, just don't buy it.. Lots of free recording programs out there, But for me & many others, PG Music have delivered what they promised.. & I may add a much cheaper hobby than buying golf clubs & paying high green fees every year, though I like golf too..
I like Earl have used the program for some years, but never delve deep. Frankly I don't need to. I, like Earl, have qualifications in programming and a whole host of sophisticated and expensive VSTs and sequencers on my system. Since getting Real Tracks BIAB I hardly ever use them. Instead of fiddling with settings (I do know this program but its sitll very involved to get a track going) in Cubase 6 instead of making music. I just switch on BIAB and I play.
Its that simple.
Type in a few chords, pick a style and off you go.
Yes you will need a decent low latency sound card (see if you can pic up a 2496 on ebay if your on a budget)
type in a few chords, pick a style and off you go.
I would say just buy the thing and get the everything pack - you wont regret it.
Thanks guys,
I have pretty much decided to give it a run now. Between my friend's long time use of BIAB and your great posts I feel a little better about breaking the industry standard of (doing a test drive before paying). See even the car sales industry had it right with the standard test drive. I still think that PG Music will better protect their major lead their industry niche by having a free trial period of the basic version. But that is their decision obviously.
So it is downloading now. Wow! I think I need to buy a backup drive. Should have done that long ago actually. On second thought after researching on Google it appears I can fit them all on a DVD backup. So that is pretty good.
Thanks again,
John
I am convinced you will not look Back,
I have never had so much fun making music by myself since i went for BIAB. Good couple of years now. After Realband came in it took me a while to start using it and have not fired up Powertracks in 2 years!
The HUGE strides PG made after those first 3 real-tracks , (and those excited me so much that i made my wife come and listen to it,) that took a g e s to generate certainly changed my life (reading this i agree it sounds corny but even after reflecting on what i said it is still true for me)
Also being in the software development game i cannot believe that all this functionality is offered for the price they put on it ....and it works ... They fix bugs Quick ....
(just my two cents worth)
@John (bowlesj), I'd be interested in hearing how this works out for you. I've been considering purchasing BIAB for at least a couple of months and, like you, would prefer to download a trial first. I have been reluctant to purchase since I truly do not know if I'll be satisfied with the results I get from the program. And in my case I'm pretty sure I would need the $500 package so its not a trivial amount to spend without being sure!
Side note regarding a trial...I'm pretty sure they used to offer one but I'd bet the main reason they eliminated it was due to piracy concerns. Most trials are just the full version that can be activated with a key and 10 minutes after you release such a trial the pirates will begin posting keys and cracks. I doubt size has much to do with it as you wouldn't need to provide many RealTracks with a trial and there are plenty of product trials you can download that are very large!
Quote:
I am convinced you will not look Back,
Thanks CountryTrash. it seems my friend and pretty much every one here seems to feel the same way. I have no doubt it will be a big step up from the Cakewalk I was using.
I just got everything installed. The play test worked. Now for some lunch then the record test if I can figure it out.
John
Quote:
I have no doubt it will be a big step up from the Cakewalk I was using.
One more time, then I will shutup, "..BIAB will not replace Cakewalk, why?, because BIAB is too limited in its recording capabilty!" This is why PGMusic made RB. Or of course maybe I am missing something here in your objectives. Wouldn't be the first time...
OK, I'm done.
Quote:
@John (bowlesj), I'd be interested in hearing how this works out for you. I've been considering purchasing BIAB for at least a couple of months and, like you, would prefer to download a trial first. I have been reluctant to purchase since I truly do not know if I'll be satisfied with the results I get from the program. And in my case I'm pretty sure I would need the $500 package so its not a trivial amount to spend without being sure!
Side note regarding a trial...I'm pretty sure they used to offer one but I'd bet the main reason they eliminated it was due to piracy concerns. Most trials are just the full version that can be activated with a key and 10 minutes after you release such a trial the pirates will begin posting keys and cracks. I doubt size has much to do with it as you wouldn't need to provide many RealTracks with a trial and there are plenty of product trials you can download that are very large!
My use to start is not complex. 1/ Input the chords to all the songs I was learning after restarting guitar and use these tracks to practice (the guitar rhythm track will be me). 2/ later if I get Midi then maybe enter the notation to some old songs I wrote along with the chords to practice these as well. 3/ potentially write some new ones using Midi input so I can get the sheet music. To summarize this activity, it all has to do with socializing by playing in real jams as I use to do when I was playing in my 20s. I have been so busy that the social life has fallen off. This is a way to bring it back and hopefully BIAB keeps me inspired to keep it up. If you are curious about my playing way back at age 22/23 with a bit from age 26 here it is. The only think I can do better now is go faster with the new Herco extra heavy flat pick I use now. All the rest is a few notches backwards.
http://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles
I can see what you are saying about hacking a trial version but still there are users like myself who 1/ have no idea how to hack and 2/ would not do it even if I could and 3/ would not buy from a hacker. Okay so the hacker has to pay for it but this probably sell enough copies to make that back. So it is a bit easier and a bit harder. I think the the free trial has a much bigger beneficial offset.
Hi JazzManDan,
Quote:
BIAB will not replace Cakewalk, why?, because BIAB is too limited in its recording capabilty!
Why do you say it is limited. Exactly what is it missing?
Thanks,
John
Quote:
Why do you say it is limited. Exactly what is it missing?
Thanks,
John
BIAB is missing enough channels of audio to be meaningful. That's all. Real Band, which comes bundled with BIAB (and is designed to work with BIAB in unique ways), has 48.
Richard
Only one track allowed, and you have little to no editing capabilty of that track! BIAB is not a multitrack recording application. That's RealBand!
To be clear John, Biab has 5 basic instrument tracks either midi or RT's: Guitar, Bass, Drums, Piano and Strings. Then 2 more, the Soloist and Melody. Then they added one audio recording track 4 or 5 years ago. That's enough for a lot of people but as soon as you want to do some actual multi track recording like you recording some parts along with one vocal or 3 or 4 vocal tracks you need a DAW like Real Band, Sonar, etc.
Most will start their song in Biab and D&D the project into their DAW.
Bob
Thanks guys,
LOL, I can see I have lots to learn which is well beyond the already intimidating control panels. Gee, I finally found the stop bottom, but it took a while - LOL. I figure it would be immediately beside the play but not so. I was looking for red but it was black so that didn't help. One step at a time.
John
I got the overdub record to work after setting the driver to realtek. So it is a keeper. I am getting together with my friend tonight so I am sure I will pick up some tips. I think he is happy to know someone else who actually has what appears to be his favorite program.
Quote:
To be clear John, Biab has 5 basic instrument tracks either midi or RT's: Guitar, Bass, Drums, Piano and Strings. Then 2 more, the Soloist and Melody. Then they added one audio recording track 4 or 5 years ago. That's enough for a lot of people but as soon as you want to do some actual multi track recording like you recording some parts along with one vocal or 3 or 4 vocal tracks you need a DAW like Real Band, Sonar, etc.
Most will start their song in Biab and D&D the project into their DAW.
Bob
Thanks Bob. So does this mean I could create a song with just Piano, Bass and drums then record my guitar for the guitar part (rather than from BIAB) then also later add in a melody/solo with my guitar again? That would be two recordings (2 overdubs in total). I am thinking after asking this that there would likely be a problem with looping changes for my guitar chords track.
Quote:
And in my case I'm pretty sure I would need the $500 package so its not a trivial amount to spend without being sure!
Yeah that is a fair chunk of money. I may not have taken the plunge at that amount. I am sure the $149 is good enough for what I am doing. I am not trying to make music to tell or anything.
I think your solution is planning the 1 month window for returning it. Yes MultiCharts had a trial but it was $610 (even more). I had a very detailed plan for testing it (a well planned out spread sheet list). It took me a full month 7 days a week 16 hours a day to test everything and I just go it all done in time. So that did it and I went ahead. The difference is I had to learn their programming language which I only partially knew from before (much more complex than learning BIAB but on the other hand I had been programming for 30 at that point so it was my territory).
I may plan my learning of BIAB. For example
1/ do all the tutorials
2/ scan all the buttons reading each left to right top to bottom
3/ scanning all menus (although this is not that easy when you go deep so you would need to map it - a lot of work).
4/ specifics I have listed before I got it and as I went along (a list of tests in other words)
5/ reading the manual 1 hour each morning and planning tests for at night (just what I did when I learned Unix shell programming)
So does this mean I could create a song with just Piano, Bass and drums then record my guitar for the guitar part (rather than from BIAB) then also later add in a melody/solo with my guitar again? That would be two recordings (2 overdubs in total).
Exactly!
In Realband you have 48 tracks to play with.
I normally create the basic song in BIAB and once happy then open it in Realband.
If there are midi and Realtracks then roughly the first 16 are used in the transfer.
THEN THE FUN STARTS
I would then typically record some more rythm quitar on say track 17, my own basic lead guitar or song specific riffs on track 18. I then add vocals to track 19 and sometimes sing another track on 20 to make it slightly fuller. (before me finding the PG stuff I used a small 4 channel Tascam recorder to do this ...4 track tapes and all)
Thanks CountryTrash.
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(before me finding the PG stuff I used a small 4 channel Tascam recorder to do this ...4 track tapes and all)
Interesting, when I was in my 20s I had the two teac model 2s then bought their 16 track Tascam. The group stuff (with drums) at this link was recorded on that machine 32 years ago. It went from 4 track Teac to Mp3 for this (lots of fun with that machine)
http://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles
Yes if you can record midi with your guitar but there's only one audio track. Got to keeps things basic, Biab is an auto accompaniment program, not a recording program. You now have Real Band, I've advised new people many times, learn RB at the same time you are learning Biab. That way you can intelligently figure out which way is best for you. For most of us the answer it both.
To get started with instant gratification, auditioning new song files, RT/RD's and styles use Biab but as soon as you want to do serious recording, tweaking, mastering, editing etc, use RB. There's plenty of times I'm not into all that and just want to test some stuff, get ideas, just play around or whatever and Biab is perfect for that. Other's don't get into the recording aspect of this and Biab by itself is enough for them and they've never opened RB. It all depends on you. Both programs will cover anything you want to do until (if?) you become enough of a pro at this you can appreciate some of the highly technical differences between RB, Reaper, Sonar, Cubase etc. At that point you'll be telling us some of your tricks, which is a good thing btw.
Bob
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I think the the free trial has a much bigger beneficial offset.
Oh, I agree with you 101%! I'd much prefer to try before I buy.
Hey, I'd be interested in your first impressions of the user interface. I have heard it is a bit, well, non-conventional! And from viewing the videos here it seems pretty much unlike every modern Windows program I've used. I guess you just get used to it if it is delivering the music though!!!
Hi JohnJohnJohn,
I think you are into this so much that you should just go for it. Forget the money. BIAB has value. There is no doubt. My friend uses BIAB, RB and also Abelton Live. He does not worry about the cost because feels he anything could happen and he could be dead tomorrow. He has the money and he just does not want to miss out on what is available. He criteria is "will I use it" not "will I use it perfectly or will it be perfect for me". There is a big difference. if you figure you will use 10% of BIAB the reality is once you know it you are likely to use 20% of it or more. You do not need to use 100% of it. The key is that he uses BIAB and RB then imports into Abelton Live and uses some of it too. Okay so maybe he has spent $1,000 on all of it. So make up the test plan and if it does 20% of that plan then buy it and find the programs that doe the other 10%. Sure take your time but make it a 20% usage rather than 100%. Importing into other programs that do the rest seems to be the key to this. As far as the 30 day trial goes, I now believe they they will return it if you do not like it. Once you believe this there is no difference except your money is tied up a little longer if you return it (so what). Calculate the interest on that. It is probably $5.00 difference at todays crazy low interest rates. Your education even if you do return it far exceeds that. Here is the bottom line. Your dwelling on it tells you very clearly that BIAB has a lot of value and the only thing holding you back is fear. Trust me, I know from trading "FEAR IS THE ENEMY" IGNORE FEAR AND GO FOR IT. Easier said that done but you really have nothing to loose the way I see it. I went for it and it worked out. My belief is your subconscious which keeps bringing you back to BIAB/RT is what is correct and your fear is what is wrong. Maybe I found it easy to see this because of my work "trading". It may not be as easy for you. I do not know. Whatever. It is all good. But I really do believe that 99% of the time the only thing we need to fear is fear itself. PG-Music could take years before they realize that having a free trial is good. That is their problem. I realized that then made the decision with that realization. If you have problems after buying it appears that there are a lot of great people here to help, It makes it easier.
Give this view point some thought. It may make the decision easier. If you have a test BIAB plan and it fails that is okay to. Just return it.
John
Good God John, what happened, wasn't it just a day ago you were reluctant to even consider purchase?? It sounds like you have drunk the koolaid.
Of course, nothin wrong with that, just seems like an instant conversion.
Welcome to the club.
Hi, John Bowles -
Welcome to the fold. I hope you continue to learn and use BIAB. It's a great program.
I just checked out your songs and really enjoyed what I heard.
Before long, you'll be offering advice and help yourself.
Welcome aboard.
Quote:
Hi JohnJohnJohn,
I think you are into this so much that you should just go for it. Forget the money. BIAB has value. There is no doubt. My friend uses BIAB, RB and also Abelton Live. He is 60 now. he does not worry about the cost because he is at the age where he could be dead tomorrow. He has the money and he just does not want to miss out on what is available. He criteria is "will I use it" not "will I use it perfectly or will it be perfect for me". There is a big difference. if you figure you will use 10% of BIAB the reality is once you know it you are likely to use 20% of it or more. You do not need to use 100% of it. The key is that he uses BIAB and RB then imports into Abelton Live and uses some of it too. Okay so maybe he has spent $1,000 on all of it. So make up the test plan and if it does 20% of that plan then buy it and find the programs that doe the other 10%. Sure take your time but make it a 20% usage rather than 100%. Importing into other programs that do the rest seems to be the key to this. As far as the 30 day trial goes, I now believe they they will return it if you do not like it. Once you believe this there is no difference except your money is tied up a little longer if you return it (so what). Calculate the interest on that. It is probably $5.00 difference at todays crazy low interest rates. Your education even if you do return it far exceeds that. Here is the bottom line. Your dwelling on it tells you very clearly that BIAB has a lot of value and the only thing holding you back is fear. Trust me, I know from trading "FEAR IS THE ENEMY" IGNORE FEAR AND GO FOR IT. Easier said that done but you really have nothing to loose the way I see it. I went for it and it worked out. My belief is your subconscious which keeps bringing you back to BIAB/RT is what is correct and your fear is what is wrong. Maybe I found it easy to see this because of my work "trading". It may not be as easy for you. I do not know. Whatever. It is all good. But I really do believe that 99% of the time the only thing we need to fear is fear itself. PG-Music could take years before they realize that having a free trial is good. That is their problem. I realized that then made the decision with that realization. If you have problems after buying it appears that there are a lot of great people here to help, It makes it easier.
Give this view point some thought. It may make the decision easier. If you have a test BIAB plan and it fails that is okay to. Just return it.
John
thanks John. you make some good points. for me the $500 vs $150 is also a bit of the criteria! :-)
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Good God John, what happened, wasn't it just a day ago you were reluctant to even consider purchase?? It sounds like you have drunk the koolaid. Of course, nothin wrong with that, just seems like an instant conversion. Welcome to the club.
that was fast! must be a great program!!
Did you end up getting the program?
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Hi, John Bowles -
Welcome to the fold. I hope you continue to learn and use BIAB. It's a great program.
I just checked out your songs and really enjoyed what I heard.
Before long, you'll be offering advice and help yourself.
Welcome aboard.
Thanks guys and thanks Jford for listening to my playing from 32 to 35 years ago. It is nice to hear someone enjoys it. I wish I had that energy and drive again. I also wish I was rich and could Practice 8 to 12 hours again as I use to in those days. I would do 4 hours on flat pick and 4 hours on finger picking. Lots of fun.
http://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles
Maybe BIAB will inspire me to put some of my current stuff out there. By the way, I just noticed we have the same first name. I think they need to call this forum the "Lots of Johns forum" :-)
I got together with my friend last night who has BIAB and who actually is playing on two of the songs on those tracks from 32 years ago ("Racing" and "Space Is Revolving"). He and I met in the computer programming course. We had a few beers and talked about BIAB some of the time. I was correct, he has had BIAB for more than 10 years. He was telling me that some of the solos that BIAB creates are really good. Actually he said he was amazed at how good some of them are. I can see it now. Thanks for tuning in folks, you are listening to BIAB top 40 radio :-)
Hi Earl,
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Did you end up getting the program?
Assuming you are referring to me yes I did. I took a day off work to download it, back the files up to DVD (an almost perfect fix on a 4.7gig DVD) then I did the play test and the record test. The record test did not work until I set the driver to RealTek which came with my motherboard which has the sound card built right in.
More for (JohnJohnJohn) I picked up a few tips from my friend last night. He has had it for over 10 years and has been telling me about it all this time. He said BIAB can only record 1 track even if you remove the BIAB generated guitar track. He said to record both your guitar accompaniment and also your melody/solos you have to use RB as I was told on this forum as well.
You can just use Real Band for it all, there's a lot of people here doing just that. It will generate music the same way as Biab. Usually I start in Biab and use Real Band afterward, but I have made songs only in RB. I got sent a song from another user in 7/4 time and found it was impossible to alter the style in Biab, but very simple in RB. The main reason I use Biab is auditioning styles, because you can hear the song faster. It plays while the song is generating, and RB plays afterward. I make a 4 or 8 bar 1 chorus test song and find a style suitable for use, and it will play almost immediately. Answers to any problems are found in search the forums, if you don't want to wait for a response. Best music forum on the web and company support too.
Thanks Tommyc. I will have to try the search some time and try to get in the habit of keeping it up. I did not realize RB can generate songs. Lots to learn.
Time to start work. Most of my BIAB time will be weekends. The BIAB vacation day is done :-(
John
P.G. Customer Service is without peer in the software industry. They will even cut you a break if YOU made a mistake. No fear...
Hey BowlesJ
For Gods sake or goodness sake if that makes you feel uncomfortable......This isnt like getting married or considering a new job!
There are a Million if not more people including myself that have this program and love it.
Dont make things more complicated than they need to be. Buy It You will love it....its that simple!
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This isnt like getting married or considering a new job!
In fact I would RATHER buy BIAB than get married..... With software, you only pay once and you can stop using it anytime you choose to.
Hi Triple John,
Just checking old threads and ran across this one . . . Come on man, I can't believe you have still not made a decision. With this said, you did get me to thinking (tongue planted firmly in cheek) that if it is taking you this long to make a decision to purchase how long is it going to take you to pick styles and real tracks for your creations? Man you may never finish a tune! Decisions decisions?
Come on man you are wasting precious time . . . BUY IT NOW!
Later,
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Hi Triple John,
Just checking old threads and ran across this one . . . Come on man, I can't believe you have still not made a decision. With this said, you did get me to thinking (tongue planted firmly in cheek) that if it is taking you this long to make a decision to purchase how long is it going to take you to pick styles and real tracks for your creations? Man you may never finish a tune! Decisions decisions?
Come on man you are wasting precious time . . . BUY IT NOW!
Later,
Danny...bought it a couple of weeks ago...am in hog heaven...convinced it is not really software...more like a drug...cannot stop messing with it...
Don't stay up all night. I used to do that all the time. Addictive for sure.
If you fish enough there are about 10,000 songs in Band in a Box format lurking.
If you didn't yet, try google and
Allanah Band in a Box mgu
as the search string. You should find a whack of stuff.
Great news! All I will add is that from the length of this thread and all the convincing it took from the members, if this was a commission sale for the PG Rep did not get enough money.
As our old friend Russ says . . . Good On You!
Welcome aboard,