VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here - PG Music Forums

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I just Downloaded and installed the most recent version. Here are my results:

1) I have a midisport 2X2. No matter which port I picked, MIDI went to both of them. (the MIDI activity lights blinked on the devices hooked to both ports)

2)after swapping cables, the hardware synth played fine no matter which port's cable was plugged into it.

To make sure I have this correct you see both ports in the combo box and they have different names right?

If it distinguishes at the enumeration level I'd have thought it should distinguish at the send level. If it doesn't I'll have to assume something else, like Sysex data for example, sets the port at that level. If so it'll be hard for me to code since I don't have a hardware device with multiple midi ports. I'd nned to work with you directly on that. Would you be willing?

Anyway, I'm glad you find the ability to use hard and soft synths together a useful fuction.

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3) even though the voiceworks was clearly getting MIDI, whatever it was getting wasn't enough to change the chords in a chordal harmony patch. It also would not change the patch if I sent a patch change CC to it.

4) however the patch change CCs WOULD change patches on the hardware synth

5) I tried all the different MIDI settings in the voiceworks, but nothing changed in my results

Well you've got better results from Voiceworks than I have so far. I haven't been able to get it to receive midi at all. I was going to try some other things this weekend.

As to the patch change cc's, I get the same results. My SD2 changes patches as expected. I wonder if it 'eats' the patch change data. Is your hardware synth ahead of the VWs in the chain? Mine is and I was going to remove it and try the VWs alone. That wil tell me a lot about what's going on.

Paul, this is great news. If I understand correctly what you are creating, I would be able to use soft synths as well as hard synths and vocal processors from within BIAB...is this right?

I typically don't use BIAB but instead use RB for just this very reason...I want to work with both hard and soft synths. Your work here will open up a whole new world to those of us that want to use all of our toys in BIAB!

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Paul, this is great news. If I understand correctly what you are creating, I would be able to use soft synths as well as hard synths and vocal processors from within BIAB...is this right?

Yes, that's correct. You wil be able to send a single midi track to a hardware synth, harmoniser, vocal processor or any other hardware midi device. Depending on your setup you may or may not also hear the output (there must be a synth in the chain somewhere to hear it).

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I typically don't use BIAB but instead use RB for just this very reason...I want to work with both hard and soft synths. Your work here will open up a whole new world to those of us that want to use all of our toys in BIAB!

That's the exact motivation that got me looking into this. I have a Ketron SD2 which has some really nice voices which I can never use in BiaB since I prefer soft synths for guitars. Now I can use both.

I do realize RB can do this but it isn't the same for just jamming along with. BiaB is so much friendlier for accompaniment.

Wow...this is fantastic! Just what myself and I'm sure many others need to bring us back to BIAB. I've pretty much walked away from it and use RB exclusively but really miss the BIAB song creation and accompaniment functions.

I'll keep checking in to follow your successes. If there is anything that I can do to help, please let me know.

Jeff

Here is the final (I hope) beta version 0.92b. If there are no more big issues I'll rename it as version 1.0 and move on to another project. I have another idea I think you will all like if I can make it work.

Meanwhile here's the low down on the redirector.

You can only access an unused midi port so you can't have multiple instances on different tracks unless they are accessing different ports. Should you want to send more than one track to your hardware synth you can put the redirector on the default slot and put software synths on the slots you DON'T want to send to your hardware synth. I tested this and it does work.

To get your VoiceWorks or VW Plus working decide which track you are going to use and put the redirector on that slot. Set midi force channel = 9 (or whatever your unit uses). Set your unit to use midi notes for harmony or correction. It should work. I got mine functioning.

Now in chord mode I think it should work as above but to get true chord output I think you'd need a midi style that does chords only. Since the midi is being redirected you won't hear any output if VWs is the only device on the hardware port. If you daisy chain a hardware synth as well you will hear the midi as well as power the VWs.

So enjoy and keep me informed how things work for you.

Paul

Paul,

I'm disappointed to report that now it doesn't work here at all, not even the hardware synth

and sometimes when I pick a port from your drop down menu, it says the port is not active (green light doesn't come on)

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Paul,

I'm disappointed to report that now it doesn't work here at all, not even the hardware synth

and sometimes when I pick a port from your drop down menu, it says the port is not active (green light doesn't come on)

That's really strange. It's working completely fine for me. Can you check the file date on the dll? It should be 1/27/2013. If not then there is some issue with the zip file. I check into it tomorrow.

actually more experimentation got it to work with the hardware synth, but on a completely different port. I have 3 ports, midisport 2x2 (ports A and B) A=roland synth, B=voiceworks

I also have an M-Audio Ozone keyboard with a MIDI out port. Tonight IT works, but ports A and B don't

But even when hard wiring that port to the voiceworks, still no luck

what other settings could be different?

1) In MIDI options, under "USE VSTi/DXi synth" do you have the "route MIDI thru to MIDI driver" checked?

2) is your audio driver ASIO or something else?

Hi pwarren and "million" thanks for the fantastic plugin!
It works exactly as you told.

You can only access an unused midi port so you can't have multiple instances on different tracks unless they are accessing different ports. Should you want to send more than one track to your hardware synth you can put the redirector on the default slot and put software synths on the slots you DON'T want to send to your hardware synth. I tested this and it does work.

To get your VoiceWorks or VW Plus working decide which track you are going to use and put the redirector on that slot. Set midi force channel = 9 (or whatever your unit uses). Set your unit to use midi notes for harmony or correction. It should work. I got mine functioning.

Greetings,
popboy

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what other settings could be different?

1) In MIDI options, under "USE VSTi/DXi synth" do you have the "route MIDI thru to MIDI driver" checked?

2) is your audio driver ASIO or something else?

I'll start here. I have "route MIDI thru to MIDI driver" checked and I use the ASIO driver from Focusrite. The "route MIDI thru to MIDI driver" shouldn't have any effect because of the ASIO driver. And ASIO vs MME shouldn't affect the routing of midi.

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actually more experimentation got it to work with the hardware synth, but on a completely different port. I have 3 ports, midisport 2x2 (ports A and B) A=roland synth, B=voiceworks

I also have an M-Audio Ozone keyboard with a MIDI out port. Tonight IT works, but ports A and B don't.

That's something at least. I think that's saying something is different about how your midi ports are installed and used.

The first thing you should check is whether BiaB is using any of the ports. Under "Opt|Midi/Audio Driver Setup" make sure "<No mid/sound output" is selected in the "Midi Output Driver" list. Or alternatively the "Microsoft GS Wavetable". This way we can be sure BiaB doesn't hold your hardware ports open. Also check that any other programs aren't accessing these ports either. I would suggest making sure your controller is off for the time being too.

Now I would try opening a song with midi on the melody track and insert the midi redirector on the melody channel with 'force midi to channel 9" (or whatever port your VWs supports). Make sure you select the correct midi port even if it is highlighted in the VSTi. It's the process of selection that opens the port for use. If the green status light doesn't come on it's telling you there's some reason it can't open the port (usually in use by some other program including other instances of the VSTi redirector.

I would also suggest you download and install MidiOx and MidiYoke. You can then use MidiOx to monitor the oputput from BiaB. Int that case you'd send your midi to a MidiYoke port and connect MidiOx to route the chosen MidiYoke port to your desired hardware port. Then you can see the BiaB output and capture a file of data that I could look at for analysis.

I hope this helps for now.

Paul

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Hi pwarren and "million" thanks for the fantastic plugin!
It works exactly as you told.

I'm glad it works for you and you like it. It looks like there'll be at least one more development cycle to help Pat get it working so, if you can, please check this thread and try any new beta versions so I can know it works for other people as well. Thanks.

Paul

A real issue with this VSTi is the fact that midi ports are volatile. They may not always be installed on your system. For example a USB midi port may be powered down. In addition, midi ports might not always load in the same order. Example; a USB port is powered up after bootup.

Because of this if you save a song with the midi redirector on a track it might not point to the same port you hooked it up to. In fact it may not point to a valid port at all.

Now there's no way, under the VST specs, to save the ports ProductName. Only long integer sized numbers can be stored.

So you'll need to treat this VSTi differently than you might others. If you save a song with the redirector on a track you'll need to check that it's connected to a valid port. A pain in the rump I know but unfortunately unavoidable as far as I can see.

Now if your system has limited numbers of ports, like mine, and they are always connected prior to bootup then this probably won't be an issue for you. I hope this doesn't make the VSTi useless to you. It is still pretty cool for my purposes.

Something else about some USB MIDI devices that I've noticed, with some programs, I have to attach the USB device to the port and let the OS recognize the device before opening or starting that program.

Some programs will even look like they "see" the USB device in their connection listing, but choosing it won't work if the device has not been recognized by the system first.

This can be confusing, for there are some programs out there that will recognize said device "on the fly" - allowing us to plug it in while the program is still running, yet the program must have a routine to be able to use the device that way.

Band in a Box is one of those programs where the USB device, whether MIDI or Audio or both, must be plugged in and recognized by your OS before starting up BB.

--Mac

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Something else about some USB MIDI devices that I've noticed, with some programs, I have to attach the USB device to the port and let the OS recognize the device before opening or starting that program.

Some programs will even look like they "see" the USB device in their connection listing, but choosing it won't work if the device has not been recognized by the system first.

This can be confusing, for there are some programs out there that will recognize said device "on the fly" - allowing us to plug it in while the program is still running, yet the program must have a routine to be able to use the device that way.

Band in a Box is one of those programs where the USB device, whether MIDI or Audio or both, must be plugged in and recognized by your OS before starting up BB.

--Mac

A very good point Mac. There's a chance that this behaviour is causing some of the problems Pat is reporting with regard to ports that work intermittantly.

Does anyone else have any comments, questions or performance reports? If not I'm going to package this VSTi as a non-beta version and put it on the BiaB wiki for download.

Everything is working well for me. I can play my SD2 and use my VoiceWorks Plus which is a great additional feature.

Paul, took a look at BAIB Wiki via your link but don't see the VSTi tool yet. Have you posted the final? Where will you post it? In the Downloads section? Would it be possible to include a setup dialog to help us first timers get it up and running properly?

Do have a question: If I have multiple external midi modules and a midi patch bay with multiple ports, could I use your VSTi and access internal VSTi's, external modules and my vocal processor all at the same time....similiar to what I do in RB?

Many thanks, looking forward to opening a new chapter of BIAB use with your utility,
Jeff

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Paul, took a look at BAIB Wiki via your link but don't see the VSTi tool yet. Have you posted the final? Where will you post it? In the Downloads section?

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I'm hoping to post the release version tomorrow. I do intend to put it in the downloads section of the wiki.

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Would it be possible to include a setup dialog to help us first timers get it up and running properly?

I won't be adding a setup utility. It's too easy to install to need it. There will be written instructions, however, for both setup and use.

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Do have a question: If I have multiple external midi modules and a midi patch bay with multiple ports, could I use your VSTi and access internal VSTi's, external modules and my vocal processor all at the same time....similiar to what I do in RB?

To a limited extent, yes. You can only access one port with one instance of the VSTi. If you have two external ports, and assuming they aren't both addressed together, you can have two instances of the VSTi accessing each port on two different tracks.

You can't use an internal VSTi on the same track as the redirector but you can have internal VSTi's on other tracks. However, I don't expect this utility to make BiaB do the same things as RB. It's really just intended to extent BiaB slightly for those of us with external gear who want to use soft synths primarily but want to add the odd track of external synths.

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Many thanks, looking forward to opening a new chapter of BIAB use with your utility,
Jeff

Your welcome Jeff. I hope you like it.

Paul

Thanks Paul, appreciate your response and very much looking forward to using this great tool!

It goes without saying that your ability to program this has helped a great many of us to realize more of the potential of BIAB and our systems. It's funny that without the ability to use soft and hard synths at the same time in BIAB, I've been using RB to do this. So in effect, I've been using the "free" program to do what the program I bought couldn't do. This has caused quite a dilemma for me; realizing all of what a great program like BIAB can do but not be able to use the way I want on the system that I have. You have solved the great quandary! I am very grateful for your work and anxious to give it a go!

Jeff

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It goes without saying that your ability to program this has helped a great many of us to realize more of the potential of BIAB and our systems. It's funny that without the ability to use soft and hard synths at the same time in BIAB, I've been using RB to do this. So in effect, I've been using the "free" program to do what the program I bought couldn't do. This has caused quite a dilemma for me; realizing all of what a great program like BIAB can do but not be able to use the way I want on the system that I have. You have solved the great quandary! I am very grateful for your work and anxious to give it a go!

To me BiaB did so much already that the inability to use my SD2 and VoiceWorks wasn't a deal breaker. Soft synths with FX sounded so much better than plain midi that I could live without the SD2. But I always did think it a shame to have a $400 item sit unused, especially knowing how good some of the keyboard voices sounded. Hence the redirector idea.

I should point out though it does have some limitations as I've mentioned before. And, unfortunately I don't know how it'll work with your multiple midi ports. I hope it'll do what you expect but it won't make BiaB as versatile as RB in the area of mixing sound modules.

The release version is ready for download here on the BiaB wiki. There are detailed instructions for installation and use on the indicated page. Enjoy.

paul

Paul, once again, many thanks for this great effort.

Before I run into a possible brick wall trying this out, could you tell me what are the ramifications of this statement in the Wiki: "This VSTi is strictly 32 bit."

Explanation: I have Windows 7 Pro 64-bit. Of course it runs 32-bit software including BIAB. When I use a 64-bit software (like SONAR as I installed it), that's when I run into problems with some plugins that are 32-bit (requiring things like J-bridge or bit-bridge and the like). Has anyone tested VSTi to MIDI on a 64-bit Windows, using an external MIDI synth that runs on 64-bit drivers (like my Roland Fantom XR)?

Thanks!

matt

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Before I run into a possible brick wall trying this out, could you tell me what are the ramifications of this statement in the Wiki: "This VSTi is strictly 32 bit."

It will not run in a native 64bit environment. However, as far as I know neither will BiaB. So I would expect it to run in BiaB but would not expect it to run in a 64bit DAW. It won't do any harm to your system so why not give it a try and let me know how it works.

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Has anyone tested VSTi to MIDI on a 64-bit Windows, using an external MIDI synth that runs on 64-bit drivers (like my Roland Fantom XR)?

I haven't, that's for sure. I don't own a 64bit system. However, as the worst that could happen is it would lock up the system and require a reboot I'd say give it a try. I'm assuming you mean within 32bit BiaB of course. I can guarantee it won't run under a 64bit DAW.

As for those 64bit midi drivers, I'd guess that won't be a problem if BiaB accesses them. The data passed to the midi port is independent of the driver.

Paul

Yes, that last statement makes good sense in this case. OK, I'll find some time to try it out. Thanks.

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I haven't, that's for sure. I don't own a 64bit system. However, as the worst that could happen is it would lock up the system and require a reboot I'd say give it a try. I'm assuming you mean within 32bit BiaB of course. I can guarantee it won't run under a 64bit DAW.

As for those 64bit midi drivers, I'd guess that won't be a problem if BiaB accesses them. The data passed to the midi port is independent of the driver.

Paul

Hi Paul,

FYI – BiaB runs just fine on my 64 bit win 7 Pro. It is still a 32 bit program though. Consequently BiaB will not address any 64 bit VSTis. It does however address 32 bit VSTis with no problem, that is as far as I know.

Mario, what was your choice for the location of the DLL? It's different on a 64-bit OS than the instructions say.

Paul, this is amazing! I'm playing a tune in BIAB. I'm using a RealDrum track, using a Roland TTS-1 for guitar, a Roland Fantom XR with your MidiReDirector for the piano track, a trumpet melody using another MidiReDirector to a Yamaha Motif XS Rack and I have a solo set up on another VSTi using a MusicLab RealGuitar. It works great!!

This is an excellent piece of work Paul. I don't know how you did it but you've opened up a whole new world for BIAB users....quite an accomplishment!

Matt, you won't have any problems with your Fantom and the ReDirect in BIAB. I'm running Win 7x64 too.

Where did you put the DLL?

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Mario, what was your choice for the location of the DLL? It's different on a 64-bit OS than the instructions say.

Matt

Anywhere you want to put the .dll - if you are a stickler for MS protocol (I'm not) then I guess C:\Program files (x86)\VST or C:\…\VST Plugins

I'm runngin BIAB now on Win 7 64 and I've put mine on my D:\MUSIC\Cakewalk\VStPlugins (which is where 90% of my 32 bit VSTs/VSTi go) and I just make everything look there. Long story - but it's because MY first use of VST's and VSTi's were using Cakewalk DAW. And when additional and newer stuff come along I didn't want to be chasing this stuff over multiple drives and directories (I end have having to anyway since some things have a mind of their own no matter what you tell installer)

I really need to install my version of SONAR 64 bit one of these days ( I haven't yet because I actually have NO 64 bit plug ins expect a few things that came with Sonar and other apps)

larry

After I downloaded it from Paul's site, I extracted it to my Program Files(86) VSTi folder where I keep my 32 bit .dll's.

PG Music (Peter)

You NEED to work a deal with Paul to INCLUDE this with NEXT release of BIAB with a built-in install and instructions and ….

Also give Paul his next update for FREE!!

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Paul, this is amazing! I'm playing a tune in BIAB. I'm using a RealDrum track, using a Roland TTS-1 for guitar, a Roland Fantom XR with your MidiReDirector for the piano track, a trumpet melody using another MidiReDirector to a Yamaha Motif XS Rack and I have a solo set up on another VSTi using a MusicLab RealGuitar. It works great!!

This is an excellent piece of work Paul. I don't know how you did it but you've opened up a whole new world for BIAB users....quite an accomplishment!

Matt, you won't have any problems with your Fantom and the ReDirect in BIAB. I'm running Win 7x64 too.

Wow! I wouldn't have predicted it would run multiple midi outs. Mainly because I have no idea how those might be addressed within windows. Of course I'm happy it does work.

One caveat though. Midi ports are volatile so they may not always load in the same order. Especially if they get unplugged (in the cse of USB ports) and er-plugged. In that case the tracks you have loaded the Redirectors on might connect to a different port when you reopen a song. Keep an eye out for this.

There's unfortunately no way to save the port NAME which would eliminate that possible problem.

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PG Music (Peter)

You NEED to work a deal with Paul to INCLUDE this with NEXT release of BIAB with a built-in install and instructions and ….

Also give Paul his next update for FREE!!

hahaha

No deal necessary. I'd happily make it available free if they felt like including it. The only thing that makes me worry is knowing that midi ports aren't always in the same order, or even there at all for that matter, and I suspect that could cause users some frustration.

Of course if some of the midi gurus at PGM wanted to help further develop it I'd be up for that too.

You're right about the midi ports Paul.

I tried to save the song I referenced above, then opened another song without any ReDirect in it. Then went back to the referenced song and opened it. None of the redirect parts (piano and trumpet from the ReDirect) AND none of the VSTi assignments were making a sound.

When I hit the "SYNTH" VSTi button in BIAB all of the assignments for the ReDirector, as well as the VSTi's, are all there but there is no sound on those tracks. If I click on each one, momentarily change it to another port and then go back to the original port; all is well and they all sound as they did originally.

Was not expecting this as I pretty much have my system hardwired in that I never make any changes to USB's, cables, audio or midi interfaces or synth setups.

Do you think that this is the problem you mentioned with port volitility or do I have some other issue going on?

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You're right about the midi ports Paul.

I tried to save the song I referenced above, then opened another song without any ReDirect in it. Then went back to the referenced song and opened it. None of the redirect parts (piano and trumpet from the ReDirect) AND none of the VSTi assignments were making a sound.

When I hit the "SYNTH" VSTi button in BIAB all of the assignments for the ReDirector, as well as the VSTi's, are all there but there is no sound on those tracks. If I click on each one, momentarily change it to another port and then go back to the original port; all is well and they all sound as they did originally.

Was not expecting this as I pretty much have my system hardwired in that I never make any changes to USB's, cables, audio or midi interfaces or synth setups.

Do you think that this is the problem you mentioned with port volitility or do I have some other issue going on?

I think I know what might be causing this. You can't set the number of ports until the VSTi has loaded but unfortunately by that time it has trued to set the port(s). So the port number can be higher than the apparent number of ports. I think I have a workaround for this. I set the max number of ports to ten during creation of the VSTi then set to max ports later. That way it should work. hopefully.

Anyway, download this version and give it a try. If it works I'll update the zip file.

MidiRedirect.dll

OK, sounds good Paul. Give me a few hours on the new .dll as I want to play with the original a bit here this morning to see if I can duplicate the issues I was having last night. Actually, just need a few more cups of 'joe so I can think through this and not mess it up!!

Very cool initiative pwarren
I appreciate your efforts.

OK, Paul here is what I'm finding out:

1. Using the original .dll and trying to duplicate the situation from last night:
a. I can still run multiple instances of the ReDirect and send data out to multiple different hardware synths as well as using internal VSTi's. In this case, I am using the Roland TTS-1 selected from the "Default Synth/Plugins" pulldown and in the Midi/Audio driver setup window, I have the "Use VST/DXi Synth" checked as well as having the "Route Midi Thru to Midi Driver" checked. With the ReDirect, I am sending the piano track to the Yamaha Motif Rack XS and sending the Bass track to the Roland Fantom XR. No problems with this setup...all play and sound normal.
b. Whether I save as "Save As" or "Save +", when I reopen the song all of the ReDirects produce no sound. To get sound, all I have to do is to open the "VSTi/Synth" button, go to the track that has the ReDirect and double click on the ports associated with each redirect. Note that I have to open the ReDirect ports to click on the port, I cannot click on the port that is showing in the window "Select a Midi Port"...I have to actually open the window and reselct the same port that the window shows.

2. Using the new .dll referenced in your Friday Feb 1st posting above:
a. Wow...you did it Paul! The new .dll is able to save the midi ports whether I use "Save As" or "Save +". If I go to a completely different song, play it or regenerate it, and then go back to the song with the multiple hardsyhths and VSTi; the midi ports are correctly called up and dead on...sound perfect!

Great job Paul...don't know how you do it but you've got it....redirects to multiple hardware synths, multiple VSTi's...all at the same time....and saves it all...it's a winner!

Many, many thanks for all of your hard work and efforts.

I sure hope Dr Gannon and crew are following this post!
Jeff

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2. Using the new .dll referenced in your Friday Feb 1st posting above:
a. Wow...you did it Paul! The new .dll is able to save the midi ports whether I use "Save As" or "Save +". If I go to a completely different song, play it or regenerate it, and then go back to the song with the multiple hardsyhths and VSTi; the midi ports are correctly called up and dead on...sound perfect!

Great job Paul...don't know how you do it but you've got it....redirects to multiple hardware synths, multiple VSTi's...all at the same time....and saves it all...it's a winner!

\

Well that's great news Jeff. I'll have to package the dll ASAP. Monday most likely. Meanwhile anyone that wants can download the upakaged dll from the link above. Anyway, thanks for your help testing it.

Paul

Just to inform you all, the wiki is updated to version 1.01 which should have all the fixes. Just be sure to check the zip file is VSTiToMidi v101.zip and that the included text file has the appropriate Last Modified statement. My ISPs server caches files and sometimes it's possible to get an old version, although it's unlikely in this case.

Paul

Hi there Mac sent me your way. wanting to send a midi signal from biab to a pc light controller. Looks like this might work. I'm trying this on my old pc first with vista I beleive is 32 bit. this one is still running biab 2012 which if I understand right will stillo work not 2013 ver. Will this midi track still be heard if I export out of biab? I was thinking of using the bass track. also could I run say the strings track also to another lighting channel for some really cool efect?
thanks for your time
John