Hello all! It's my first post, and I suspect that I'll be around quite a bit asking dopey questions, I hope you'll bear with me. First question...and I'm sure it's a topic brought up before...is about Software Synths. The Roland Soundcanvas that was included in my BIAB package is adaquate for the sounds of drums, bass and drums, but with things like guitar, horns, and strings it...well shall we say it leaves a bit to be desired? So - are there alternate VSTis or whatever that you could suggest that would sound better? I'd happily pay some cash for a significant improvement, although a really nice free download synth would of course be very cool. Thanks!
Welcome to the forum, Beowulf!
A while ago, I came to the same conclusion as you. I first bought the Forte dxi by Coyote, which is much better in the guitar/horn dept ( see
http://pgmusic.com/fortedxi.htm). Later, I went for the Ketron SD2, tho more expensive, gives good value for the $$ (not a software synth, see
http://pgmusic.com/ketronsd2.htm). Listen to the demos...
- Jepster
Ketron SD2 is a very good sounding little box, hard to find a better soundset for BIAB without spending three or four times its price or more.
--Mac
There's anew soft synth/sampler coming on the market real soon. Garritain personal orchestra with a player called aria. It maybe the best, lest expensive way to get high quality instruments.
If you go to the Northern Sounds forum, there's a sub group on the GPO instruments
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/index.php?From the limited info, it looks like the program that manages the sounds"Aria" maybe very compatible with BIAB.
There are also several free soft synths and a site I find very useful for that info is
http://www.kvraudio.com/Hope this helps
Wyndham
Thanks! It looks like the link to the Ketron demos is down though. That Forte is a marked improvement in sound for a very few bucks, although the melody instruments do still sound very "keyboardy", but perhaps that's the nature of the beast? I know that when I recorded with my old Proteus units I had to approach the melodies pretty carefully and tweak things to make strings and horns sound convincing. So BIAB is playing off the GM instruments in a given synth, or is that tweakable too? And would a sampler like Kontakt be appropriate to use? I really gotta get through this manual! Although I can't find anything addressing this issue in it yet. I appreciate this forum, you folks have been very helpful!
Band In A Box can send to any MIDI device, and if the MIDI device has banks of sounds above the General MIDI, it can access them as well. However, synths, software or hardware are rather static, whereas the instruments you're talking about are very dynamic. Hence, it's very difficult to get that 'great' sound from any synth.
I don't own an SD2 yet, although I plan on getting one...just bought a new computer, so that should be fun...and I also have a Korg PA800 arranger keyboard. I don't know what to tell you right now, other than get the most you can for your money.
Gary
Quote:
So BIAB is playing off the GM instruments in a given synth, or is that tweakable too? And would a sampler like Kontakt be appropriate to use?
You can use any synth, hardware or software with Biab including Kontakt but the problem is with ease of use. The reason to use an integrated GM synth is all the instruments are preloaded into ram and are instantly accessable to Biab. That makes those simple plug and play. A non-GM soundset using large samples like Kontakt or in my case Sampletank, have to be set up individually for each song. Sampletank also has a GM soundbank I can use but they don't preload either so I still have to set up each instrument individually ahead of time for each song. If you decide after hearing the tune one time to change the nylon guitar to the steel guitar, you have to go back into the sampler, take out the nylon and load the steel. You can have Biab really sound great that way but it's very tedious to have to do that. The other problem is with program changes. That's where a given style in Biab wants to change an instrument in the middle of the tune while the song is playing . If you're working with a big sampler like Kontakt, it needs a few seconds to load the sample but in a real time situation like that, the song is already playing so it causes an instant lockup. This is the reason why GM software synths all sound a little weak. Everything has to be loaded ahead of time, you can't use disc streaming or whatever. Hardware doesn't have that problem but if you don't want to use hardware, then people use Biab to create the song, then open the song up in Real Band or another sequencer because there you can use all your killer sampler sounds much easier.
I know you're new at this and it's difficult getting your head around all this stuff. There is no one easy solution to getting killer sounds out of Biab for small money. Good hardware synths are going to cost you and if you want to keep it in software then you have the problems I just described. Everything is a compromise, you have to learn enough to make a decision as to which way you want to go.
Bob
The other thing you can do is to build the song inside BiaB, then save as a midi with any RTs and RDs, and open it in Real Band. then process the midi tracks with a good sampler like Kontact, or sampletank using the better samples you like and then bounce those to audio tracks and delete the midi and resave. you can use better effects on audio and get a very convincing track in the end.
Mac, those are some pretty impressive demos! Are you playing the sax in that first one or is that a sample of some kind? If it is it's very convincing. I can't hear them all for some reason, perhaps because my connection out here in the swamp is a sad and primitve one I guess.
What I might wind up doing for now is take tracks out to Real Band or shoot them into Cubase (if I can figure that bit out), and then render them out in Kontakt, which I already have. But I might still save up for that Ketron
if I can, it's sounding very good!
At this point I just have to keep figuring out the BIAB program...I can tell there's a lot to learn. I got everything loaded and going last week, and then my entire PC went down. The folks at the shop said it wasn't any of my software ("just another case of s&*# happens") so now I'm reloading everything, including BIAB and my entire library of loops for Acid Pro. It's gonna take days.
Thanks again everybody for all this good advice!
Quote:
Ma Are you playing the sax in that first one or is that a sample of some kind?
No saxophone to play here (grin). That's the Ketron SD2.
All songs but "Peg" are examples taken from pgmusic BIAB demo files. The one in question had but one Real Instrument, the RealDrums, I put it twice because the second time around I used the Ketron's SD2 MIDI drum samples instead so you can hear the difference.
"Peg" is a fullblown MIDI sequence rendered in Powertracks, all instruments heard are the Ketron SD2.
The SD2 is a LOT of good samples and sounds for the money.
And truth be told, a hardware MIDI synth is simply less trouble than software synths, too. I have quite a few software "solutions" here and the SD2 or my SD4 have all but retired them. Hardware synth is zero latency, no fuss, no sudden surprises such as, "it worked yesterdaym today there's pops, clicks and interruptions..."
--Mac
Man! That's sounding really good. I'm gonna start saving up my quarters...getting the PC revived tapped me out right now though...
Hello Mac
It seems that you own ketron SD2 AND SD4. As I also own the SD2, what are the advantages to get the SD4.
Following the website, it seems that the drums are the only difference for the point of vue of sounds ?
Claude
Paris
Hi Claude,
The SD4 is actually TWO SD2's in one box. It also has a numeric keypad and 12 other buttons with a small readout on the front panel such that the user can choose patches and effects from its front panel.
There are indeed two different inputs on the back for the two different SD2 engines. Same patches as the SD2, incidentally. I haven't much use for the Live Drums feature, being a BIAB and RB user (grin).
The SD4 was obviously designed for the MIDI player who uses it mostly for Live Performance applications, I think. One channel and synth for playing back MIDI sequences from a laptop and the other one for their "Solo" synth which is hooked to their MIDI instrument.
I don't think you are missing a thing using the SD2 with BIAB and other pgmusic products, etc.
*The same SD2 patchmap works exactly the same with the SD4 inside BIAB or PT. Calls the same patches.
Hope this helps,
--Mac
Quote:
Hello all! It's my first post, and I suspect that I'll be around quite a bit asking dopey questions, I hope you'll bear with me. First question...and I'm sure it's a topic brought up before...is about Software Synths. The Roland Soundcanvas that was included in my BIAB package is adaquate for the sounds of drums, bass and drums, but with things like guitar, horns, and strings it...well shall we say it leaves a bit to be desired? So - are there alternate VSTis or whatever that you could suggest that would sound better? I'd happily pay some cash for a significant improvement, although a really nice free download synth would of course be very cool. Thanks!
Yes, as others have written, there are much better softsynths available than the included VSC.
However, as also written, it is much easier with BIAB to use a General Midi softsynth, than one that does not follow the GM specification (most do not).
As was mentioned, the Coyote Forte DXI softsynth, very inexpensive, available for purchase from PGMusic (you can download a free demo to try first), is a GM softsynth with much better sound than VSC.
A GM softsynth that probably sounds better than that, but costs more, and I think uses more of your CPU resources, is Bandstand, from Native Instruments.
Someone mentioned Garritan Personal Orchestra. It is an excellent orchestral synth. As mentioned, it will soon have a new version out, using the Aria sample playback engine. (The old version used Kontakt.) However, it is not GM, so would be more complicated to use. (Unless the new ARIA version has some way to set to a GM mode or something?) Also, as it is a classical orchestra, it may not be as well suited to jazz and pop sounds. Garritan also has a synth called "Jazz and Big Band", which has very good jazz instrument sounds (also not GM though). A couple years ago they announced they would come out with a GM softsynth called GEM, but it never was released (other than a Reason Refill), and no more announcements of it, so I think the idea was dropped.)
Another option for a General MIDI synth is to use a free soundfont player, like sfz, and to load a General MIDI soundfont into it. Here is one that is supposed to be very good--http://www.papelmedia.eu/english/ . It only costs 27 Euro (not sure how that translates into dollars-perhaps $30-40), less than Coyote Forte DXI, and it is supposed to be very good. (Might be interesting if someone did a comparison review of this Papelmedia GM soundfont, against Coyote Forte and Bandstand.)
Of course, as others have mentioned, you could also use a hardware GM sound module, like the Ketron, or those from Roland-Edirol and others. That has the disadvantages of another piece of hardware to connect (and carry with you, if a portable setup), and less flexibility, as the sounds are hard-wired. It has the advantage of using much less CPU and RAM, as your computer then does not have to synthesize the sounds, they are present in the external module. And some--like the Ketron, are supposed to be quite good. This (using an external sound module) used to be very common, before the advent of softsynths.
If you wish to render a creation in BIAB to a .wav file, however, it could be problematical, if you use a hardware sound module, and wish to capture that sound. Then you would have to actually record the sound from the module, routing its sound output to the input of another sound card, or using a microphone to record the sound. With a softsynth, however, you would not have to record like that, the audio file can be automatically rendered.
I'll check out Bandstand...I've had mixed feelings about Native Instruments - I love their products but it seems if anything goes wrong their aftermarket support is negligible at best (at least in my experience). Still, it bears looking at, as I do have and use other software of theirs and it's always sounded excellent. At this point I've downloaded Forte (no reason not to) and it is a significant improvement from the Soundcanvas, although not at the level that something like the Ketron can produce. I still like the ease of using a softsynth though, I'm trying to minimise the cables in my life if possible! There's enough spegetti in the studio as it is.
Quote:
I still like the ease of using a softsynth though, I'm trying to minimise the cables in my life if possible! There's enough spegetti in the studio as it is.
You hit it right on the head. Hardware has a lot of advantages but desktop clutter is not one of them plus having to play your opus in real time to record it. A five minute tune takes five minutes to record while software can render it in about 20 seconds. I like that. The whole reason more and more powerful softsynths were created was to bypass all that and I'm a believer but with Biab, it's a pain because it only has one midi output port so you can only use one softsynth. That means it has to have all the instruments. You can't use a killer drum module just for drums, another just for guitar, etc. I use Forte exclusively in Biab because it sounds good enough to not hurt my ears while I put a tune together, then the whole thing goes into Real Band although many times lately I'm using just Real Band because it does about 90% of what Biab does anyway with a lot more flexibility.
Bob
Hi maiki,
I use both Papelmedia and the Forte GM sets but generally in PTW/RealBand and via VSampler so that both sets are immediately available, I just need to change the LSB code between 0 and 1 to switch instrument patches from one set to the other. In comparison, some patches are better in Forte and others in Papel. As examples: in my view, Patch 33 Acoustic Bass is better in Forte while Patch 55 plus alternative voices are much better in Papel. Both are better than than the VSC DXi but I choose to use the VSC synth in BIAB for simplicity while in PTW/RB I have the freedom to mix and match sounds from a number of different sources.
Lyn
Absolute quality of sound, zero latency, always works, no pops or clicks, no sudden surprises or be upset about a couple or three cables extra and having to wait a whole five minutes...
I'll go with the quality of sound, etc. man.
--Mac
I have heard Bandstand in BB 2008.5 and thought it.....stunk. The balance of the instruments were off, and I thought that the free Sound Site Album Bank or Massive thru SFZ sounded more balanced.
Of course this is all YMMV & IMHO
Like most folks here, I've been through the hardware vs. software choices. I think I've tried just about everything.
I would suggest a hardware GM module, just to make using BB simple and fast. I just got a Ketron SD2 from PG Music, and I'm very happy with it. It sounds better than my former fave, Roland XV-2020, and sounds just about as good as the PLG-100XG in my Motif rack (it's an addon Yamaha XG GM card). The Yamaha XG is the best sounding GM I've ever heard, but I'm not lugging heavy rack units around anymore. The Ketron SD2 isn't quite as nice souonding as the XG, but it's very close. I don't think you'll find another GM synth today that sounds better, no matter the price.
Bandstand is NOT supported at all by NI any more (not that it was from the start). So, even though I like it and wouldn't recommend against buying it (if you can find it for less than $100), beware. You're on your own.
One thing you might try is to use the free softsynth in BB to sketch out a song, then after you have the structure and style the way you want it, bring it into a sequencer (Real Band, Power Tracks, Sonar, etc.) to assign higher quality sounds before rendering it to MP3, WAV, or WMA.
If you want the most bang for your buck, and the most hassle-free fun, get a nice hardware GM box.
Quote:
Absolute quality of sound, zero latency, always works, no pops or clicks, no sudden surprises or be upset about a couple or three cables extra and having to wait a whole five minutes...
I'll go with the quality of sound, etc. man.
--Mac
Yeah, yeah I know. It's just I have so much, so very much cra uh, stuff already ya know? Sigh....I'll probably wind up getting it, you'll be the first to know.
Bob
I'm not so worried about cables as cash right now actually! I can certianly see the advantages to a hardware unit...but if I could find a likely suspect used, ah, then I'd be in business. Well, I'd be in business after I finish that darn manual and figure my way around a bit...and if this computer doesn't crash again...
Quote:
I would suggest a hardware GM module, just to make using BB simple and fast. I just got a Ketron SD2 from PG Music, and I'm very happy with it. It sounds better than my former fave, Roland XV-2020, and sounds just about as good as the PLG-100XG in my Motif rack (it's an addon Yamaha XG GM card). The Yamaha XG is the best sounding GM I've ever heard, but I'm not lugging heavy rack units around anymore. The Ketron SD2 isn't quite as nice souonding as the XG, but it's very close. I don't think you'll find another GM synth today that sounds better, no matter the price.
You know, I've just looked on Ebay at the Yahama MU-100 XG modules, and there are several of those at reasonable prices...is that a related unit? I can never keep synth nomenclature straight, it's all numbers...man, just give me a Telecaster or a Les Paul! I at least know what they are. Somedays I miss the old Vox Vaguars too.
Thanks for this thread. I had assumed that the VSC was the best. I just downloaded the Coyote Forte after hearing the demo comparisons. I play on purchasing it, since the price is reasonable and the sound is so much better. I really don't need a hardware unit for what I do.
Beowulf,
The MU-100 is not the same. It's an earlier version of Yamaha's XG synth line. The MU-100 does not sound as good. In fact, I bought a used MU-100 and was disappointed in the sounds and the overall usefullness of the thing. I'd choose the XV-2020 or Ketron SD-2 over it.
The SW1000XG is a PCI board for your computer. My card is a version of it for the Yamaha Motif, and it sounds great. I don't think there is a stand-alone hardware version. I did a quick search of Ebay for an SW1000XG and found a couple in Greece for about $600 each.
The MU-100R is the same as the PCI card, but is a hardware box. If you can find one on Ebay for less than the Ketron or Roland, it may be worth buying. But, they are pretty old now (stopped production around 2002), so be careful.
The Ketron is the only one of the above that is still in production, and has a future.
http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/sw1000xg/index.htmlAlso, in reference to Mac's mention of the Ketron SD-4 (I think it was), and using its two GM synths independently: I found trying to use the Motif Rack sounds for playing and the PLG-100XG for MIDI playback wasn't as simple as I'd hoped. You can play a MIDI file while you play, but you must stay in "Performance" mode, which means you can't just dial up a nice piano patch to play along. If you change your mind and want to use an organ patch during a song, you can't do that from the keyboard. You have to send the instrument patch via MIDI from a sequencer. I tried it live, but it proved to cumbersome (and the unit is too heavy!).
So now, (not to sound too much like I'm plugging a particular product!) I have a Ketron SD-2 tucked in the back of my rack, connected via USB, audio thru the Ultralite, and I'm very happy.
I tell you all this detail, not to push a product, but too share my experience with what's out there.
Quote:
Like most folks here, I've been through the hardware vs. software choices. I think I've tried just about everything.
I would suggest a hardware GM module, just to make using BB simple and fast. I just got a Ketron SD2 from PG Music, and I'm very happy with it. It sounds better than my former fave, Roland XV-2020, and sounds just about as good as the PLG-100XG in my Motif rack (it's an addon Yamaha XG GM card). The Yamaha XG is the best sounding GM I've ever heard, but I'm not lugging heavy rack units around anymore. The Ketron SD2 isn't quite as nice souonding as the XG, but it's very close. I don't think you'll find another GM synth today that sounds better, no matter the price.
Bandstand is NOT supported at all by NI any more (not that it was from the start). So, even though I like it and wouldn't recommend against buying it (if you can find it for less than $100), beware. You're on your own.
One thing you might try is to use the free softsynth in BB to sketch out a song, then after you have the structure and style the way you want it, bring it into a sequencer (Real Band, Power Tracks, Sonar, etc.) to assign higher quality sounds before rendering it to MP3, WAV, or WMA.
If you want the most bang for your buck, and the most hassle-free fun, get a nice hardware GM box.
Hi,
This is a great thread. Mac's audio files displaying the Ketron SD2's abilities were outstanding. So much so that I plan to buy one. My question: I have an emu0404 audio interface and a cheap Casio midi keyboard. Where does the SD2 fit into the picture? In between the emu and the keyboard? I just want to be sure I don't go off and buy the SD2 then find out I need $$$ more equipment.
Best wishes,
Bob
Connect the keyboard's MIDI Out to the E-MU's MIDI In.
Connect the E-MU's MIDI Out to the SD2's MIDI In.
One connection to each.
Then configure the software host (BIAB, RB, PT etc.) such that it recognizes E-MU In and Out.
If your keyboard only has a USB connection, just select that only on the Input side of the software, select the E-MU MIDI on the output side.
Connect the L and R stereo audio outputs of the SD2 to a Line Input pair on the E-MU so that you can hear the sounds it makes and record them.
--Mac
Quote:
Connect the keyboard's MIDI Out to the E-MU's MIDI In.
Connect the E-MU's MIDI Out to the SD2's MIDI In.
One connection to each.
Then configure the software host (BIAB, RB, PT etc.) such that it recognizes E-MU In and Out.
If your keyboard only has a USB connection, just select that only on the Input side of the software, select the E-MU MIDI on the output side.
Connect the L and R stereo audio outputs of the SD2 to a Line Input pair on the E-MU so that you can hear the sounds it makes and record them.
--Mac
Great! Thanks Mac.
Bob
Quote:
Connect the keyboard's MIDI Out to the E-MU's MIDI In.
Connect the E-MU's MIDI Out to the SD2's MIDI In.
One connection to each.
Then configure the software host (BIAB, RB, PT etc.) such that it recognizes E-MU In and Out.
If your keyboard only has a USB connection, just select that only on the Input side of the software, select the E-MU MIDI on the output side.
Connect the L and R stereo audio outputs of the SD2 to a Line Input pair on the E-MU so that you can hear the sounds it makes and record them.
--Mac
I have a small problem: the emu doesn't have a line input pair to use for the L and R stereo audio outputs from the SD2. It has s/pdif inputs, but they're digital. I'm using one of two Hi-Z/line input for a shure 57, so no go there either. Any suggestions? (Should have looked before buying, but there must be a way around this... I hope.)
Bob
Well, you could simply disconnect the mic and connect the keyboard to do that part of the thing.
If you absolutely must use Mic and keyboard at same time, I'd suggest looking into a Mic Preamp that has S/PDIF output on it, which would likely be an upgrade to the preamp in the 0404 anyway. Then you'd have the two analog inputs for the keyboard.
OR -- a set of line inputs (analog) that output S/PDIF for the keyboard.
In a real pinch, set the keyboard for monophonic output (most do that when you plug into only one output, typically L, check your manual or the back of the machine) and use one side of your E-MU for the Mic and the other for the monophonic keyboard.
Mono output will only be a kill for some of the effects such as rotary speaker and other spatial effects or the like. And, of course, the Stereo Grand Piano that's likely in GM bank as the first thing. But it can sound pretty good in mono, too. Since you don't have any other inputs.
--Mac
Quote:
Well, you could simply disconnect the mic and connect the keyboard to do that part of the thing.
If you absolutely must use Mic and keyboard at same time, I'd suggest looking into a Mic Preamp that has S/PDIF output on it, which would likely be an upgrade to the preamp in the 0404 anyway. Then you'd have the two analog inputs for the keyboard.
OR -- a set of line inputs (analog) that output S/PDIF for the keyboard.
In a real pinch, set the keyboard for monophonic output (most do that when you plug into only one output, typically L, check your manual or the back of the machine) and use one side of your E-MU for the Mic and the other for the monophonic keyboard.
Mono output will only be a kill for some of the effects such as rotary speaker and other spatial effects or the like. And, of course, the Stereo Grand Piano that's likely in GM bank as the first thing. But it can sound pretty good in mono, too. Since you don't have any other inputs.
--Mac
Thanks Mac. I hope you will forgive my ignorance, but I'm not following you. My midi keyboard outputs are midi cables, so I'm confused about how they could be swapped for the mic? I think what you're telling me is to find something that converts analog line inputs (from the SD2) into S/PDIF input for my emu. Is that right?
Quote:
Thanks Mac. I hope you will forgive my ignorance, but I'm not following you. My midi keyboard outputs are midi cables, so I'm confused about how they could be swapped for the mic? I think what you're telling me is to find something that converts analog line inputs (from the SD2) into S/PDIF input for my emu. Is that right?
Oh my.
The MIDI cables only contain MIDI data. Commands that tell the synth to turn a note on at a specified time, turn it off at another and a few other things like that. WE CANNOT HEAR MIDI DATA -- nor would we want to do so, for it would sound pretty harsh and nonmusical, it is all computer code.
Hook up the MIDI cables to get data to go to and from the computer to your keyboard.
But there will still be a problem with the AUDIO, which is analog.
Likely right now you must have built in speakers in that keyboard if you can hear it at all and have no Audio cables hooked up from its audio output to your computer input. Meaning you cannot hear the keyboard coming out of the computer's monitor speakers.
Look at the back of your keyboard. There should be two 1/4" Audio outputs labeled L and R -- or at least there should be a headphone jack that cuts the keyboard's speakers off and can be used, with the proper Y adaptor, to connect to your soundcard's Line Inputs. This is going to be the only way to record your keyboard's synth output correctly.
--Mac
Thanks Mac. I think that your earlier idea of a new mic preamp that has digital output is my best option, although not as cheap as I wished. I've made a quick scan of the internet and the ART DPSII Digital Preamplifier System seems to fit the bill. I envisage hooking the analog output from the SD2 to the emu's two mic inputs, and using the ART preamp for my mic inputting it digitally into the emu's SPDIF input. I think this will be a satisfactory, if someone expensive, solution giving me keyboard, mic, and SD2 inputs into BIAB and Sonar as intended. As always, thanks for your advice. It is appreciated.
Bob
Hi Bob. Not sure what level of expense that is, but how about a small (analog) mixer as an alternative. It'd probably provide greater flexibility, and avoid the spdif.
Just a thought. -Ron
An analog mixer would have to still output to the two available audio channels.
You wouldn't be able to get separate stereo tracks that way and editing in the host software would be restricted because of that.
A mixer with S/PDIF output would be a horse of a different color in this situation, as it would be able to do the same as the Mic Preamp, take analog input signals and convert them to digital signals, introducing them on the "other" two channels of the 0404.
--Mac
A quick follow-up: I decided to start with KISS and simply unplugged my mic, patching the output from the SD2 into the two existing mic inputs on the EMU. This worked and was beaucoup easy. Major comment: Wow! Everything that has been said about the sound quality of the SD2 is true and more. Mac, thanks for emphasizing the SD2's quality to price value and all of your suggestions and advice. Minor question: Is there an easy way to access all those midi commands via BIAB, PT, or Sonar (without resorting to a midi keyboard with control surface)? A search on the web suggests that there is or was some sort of utility to do so, but -- if true--, it is no longer available on the Ketron.it webpage. This would be frosting on an otherwise tasty cake.
Bob
Hi Bob,
The easiest way for me is to use a midi controller.
However you can draw midi commands in both Sonar and PT. I start my songs in BiaB and finish them in Sonar so I do not know it BiaB allows CC drawing. You may want to check the manual on that application.
Many times I will use the midi controller then fine tune it via drawing.
I hope this helps.
Stay tuned, Bob, there is indeed something in the works that is in first alpha right now. I'm testing and reporting and hoping that the developer will not let it languish.
BUT -- it will need a computer to work. Laptop with MIDI in and out is enough.
--Mac