Using BIAB live

Posted by: lambada

Using BIAB live - 05/21/15 07:13 PM

I would love to see some videos of users using BIAB live. YouTube has little or nothing. When I finally stop stuffing around, I plan to use BIAB Real Tracks backing me with harmonies on my VoiceLive 2 in an acoustic setting. I also have a Boss Looper (yet to be figured out) and the TC Nova (Fantastic). Right now I just sing and play (lol). What setups are others using?
Posted by: Muzic Trax

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/23/15 03:23 PM

The Conductor feature in Biab is for live playing (gig etc) with Biab.

I have never used it though. I would check the PG Music Support videos first for a demo of using the Conductor feature for gigging musicians. I would also check YouTube as well. There are alot of Biab videos on YouTube.

Trax
Posted by: lambada

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/26/15 06:51 AM

True, but no videos of anyone using BIAB live. Just curious. There is one of a guy organising a jazz choir, but.... I would love to see a singer/guitarist using real tracks in a live environment. If not, I'll do it cool smile assuming I ever get my audio back on my windows tablet.
Posted by: Danny C.

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/26/15 08:14 AM

Originally Posted By: lambada
True, but no videos of anyone using BIAB live. Just curious. There is one of a guy organising a jazz choir, but.... I would love to see a singer/guitarist using real tracks in a live environment. If not, I'll do it cool smile assuming I ever get my audio back on my windows tablet.


Not sure what you are asking for lamdada, I along with many others use BIAB live at hundreds of gigs but I do not have any videos or tutorials. I also do live eConcerts using BIAB, if you follow via the FB link below you can find the dates and times. Also if you sign into one of the venue you can ask me any questions you like about my setup including BIAB I will be happy to answer in real time.

Hope this helps.
Posted by: Charlie Fogle

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/26/15 01:27 PM

I know that Joanne Cooper (JosieC here on the forum) has used BIAB tracks on some of her StreetJelly live, streaming concerts in the past. She presents concerts there on a fairly regular basis so you may want to watch some.

Even if you catch a performance that she is not using backing tracks, her concerts are always fun and entertaining and worth the time you spend.
Posted by: tonnie

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/27/15 06:01 AM

Sorry I have no videos of me playing live with BiaB, however I can tell you how I use it.

First I use BiaB, since each playback is somewhat different, which I as a jazz oriented player prefer.

Secondly I play guitar though a pedal board into a guitar amp, but also via a Roland GR-33 guitar synth into my stereo PA, a Fender Passport 150.

From my laptop I split the BiaB output via a Roland UM one into an UA-1 X (for Real Sounds) and Roland XV-5050 (For MIDI sound) and (MIDI) Output Chords to my TC-Helicon Voice Works (For “Close Harmony” singing “Four Freshmen”-style),

The Real and Midi sounds are mixed together with the aid of a small (4 channel mixer) and then go through a 3 way crossover filter. The output of the treble and middle tones are sent (in stereo) to the mixer part of the Passport, while the bass part is send to two Gallien-Krueger bass amps.

This way the bass, bass drum and the lower end of the piano do not “burden” the small Passport speakers and can be fully controlled separately.

The outputs from the TC-Helicon Voice Works go in stereo via an Antares AVP-1 and into the Passport mixer.

So this way I can play guitar (and/or any instrument sound available from GR-33) and/or sing in full stereo to my own arrangements.

NB. There is a small limitation when using the “Output Chords” function with the Voice Works, as it only “understands” 4-note chords (Gmaj7b5 is OK, but G9 is not OK).

I avoid this by writing my arrangement with full chords, then freezing the Piano, String, Guitar tracks etc., then simplifying the chords to four note chords, and voila no more misinterpretations by the Voice Works.

Also the use of passing chords makes the others voices in Voice Works work (sing) more professionally.

Hope this helps.
Tonnie
Posted by: lambada

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/27/15 06:31 AM

Brilliant. Very useful. Gives me some ideas for pulling it all together especially as I have the Voicelive 2 and a Roland guitar synth. It must sound very full and professional. I guess plenty of scope for things to go wrong! Quite a different approach from recording in a home studio. I was thinking about freezing the Realtracks, but suspected that a lot of people just render to audio and use a more static backing track approach. Like you, I fancied the idea (in theory) of keeping the flexibility of the Realtracks in the process. Do you use the pedal board to send midi patch commands or just as a guitar effects board? Would love to hear an audio of a live song as I suspect would others.
Posted by: 90 dB

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/27/15 07:08 AM

Originally Posted By: tonnie
Sorry I have no videos of me playing live with BiaB, however I can tell you how I use it.

First I use BiaB, since each playback is somewhat different, which I as a jazz oriented player prefer.

Secondly I play guitar though a pedal board into a guitar amp, but also via a Roland GR-33 guitar synth into my stereo PA, a Fender Passport 150.

From my laptop I split the BiaB output via a Roland UM one into an UA-1 X (for Real Sounds) and Roland XV-5050 (For MIDI sound) and (MIDI) Output Chords to my TC-Helicon Voice Works (For “Close Harmony” singing “Four Freshmen”-style),

The Real and Midi sounds are mixed together with the aid of a small (4 channel mixer) and then go through a 3 way crossover filter. The output of the treble and middle tones are sent (in stereo) to the mixer part of the Passport, while the bass part is send to two Gallien-Krueger bass amps.

This way the bass, bass drum and the lower end of the piano do not “burden” the small Passport speakers and can be fully controlled separately.

The outputs from the TC-Helicon Voice Works go in stereo via an Antares AVP-1 and into the Passport mixer.

So this way I can play guitar (and/or any instrument sound available from GR-33) and/or sing in full stereo to my own arrangements.

NB. There is a small limitation when using the “Output Chords” function with the Voice Works, as it only “understands” 4-note chords (Gmaj7b5 is OK, but G9 is not OK).

I avoid this by writing my arrangement with full chords, then freezing the Piano, String, Guitar tracks etc., then simplifying the chords to four note chords, and voila no more misinterpretations by the Voice Works.

Also the use of passing chords makes the others voices in Voice Works work (sing) more professionally.

Hope this helps.
Tonnie






Way to keep it simple, dude. grin
Posted by: tonnie

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/27/15 12:16 PM

Forgot to tell that most of my stuff is built into a 6 unit, 19" rack, With wheels, using a snake cable to connect most of my stuff to the amps. So it may sound complicated, but it sounds great!

Tonnie
Posted by: Matt Finley

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/27/15 12:35 PM

Just a note about getting the best sound live:

Whether you use a laptop or an MP3 player etc. to play the backing tracks, be sure to turn up that laptop/player as far as you can without distortion, and then adjust the volume on the PA. You will ensure you are hearing the best quality sound. The principle of doing this is called gain staging.
Posted by: jazzmammal

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/27/15 03:30 PM

The other point to make here is most folks don't actually use Biab itself live. They use Biab at home to produce the tracks that they convert to wav's or MP3's. They then use a laptop, their phone or whatever else to play back the tracks on the gig.

The question to answer is will you be making changes to Biab's playback live on a gig or just letting it play through to the end of your songs? If it's the latter no need to mess around with a laptop and all the stuff needed. Keep it simple and just playback the files.

Bob
Posted by: Danny C.

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/27/15 04:26 PM

lamdada,

I use BIAB "live" no mp3's no wav etc. Just like it comes out of the can so to say.

Guitar in to Bose LII through a pedal board and mic in through the Vocalist Live 4. As Matt says, as much volume as you can get through the laptop (without going crazy) and then adjust out volume through your mixer. For me it's is the Bose Mixer, I forget what Bose calls it, but it is a mixer none the less.

I have been playing 75-100 gigs a year plus some Street Jelly and Concert Window eConcerts for the past 12-14 years, or at least since I discovered BIAB. I am told the sound is wonderful, but hey some people are just very nice. LOL

If you would like more detailed info, drop me a PM and I will be happy to give you a call so we can talk further.

Later,
Posted by: lambada

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/27/15 09:56 PM

Thanks Danny. Useful. I liked your website and recordings as well. It's nice to read that people are using BIAB or variations out gigging. I appreciate your valuable point Jazzmammal. Thanks Tonnie for all the info and Matt for the info on levels/gain. Also, the other posters. All good. Now just got to find my DXis which are alive and well on my home pc but not my tablet!:-)
Posted by: tonnie

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/28/15 04:18 AM

The only USB pedal I use, is to stop my Laptop from playing back my BiaB arrangement, in case a toast master or similar wants to say something, which more often than not is in the middle of a song I might be playing.

I would prefer to be able to fade out in stead, but that seems not possible at the moment.

Brgds,
Tonnie
Posted by: 90 dB

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/28/15 04:39 AM

Originally Posted By: lambada
I would love to see some videos of users using BIAB live. YouTube has little or nothing. When I finally stop stuffing around, I plan to use BIAB Real Tracks backing me with harmonies on my VoiceLive 2 in an acoustic setting. I also have a Boss Looper (yet to be figured out) and the TC Nova (Fantastic). Right now I just sing and play (lol). What setups are others using?





What sort of places do you plan to play? All of these toys are cool, but in the real world, very complicated for live performance.

Step One: Get a stopwatch: start the timer, pick a song, load it into BIAB, generate it, then set your VoiceLive 2 for whatever harmonies you need, set the parameters on your TC Nova, your Roland guitar synth, and your Boss Looper and hit play. (by the way, your guitar is in tune, and your mic's not feeding back right?) Stop the watch. Time?

Step Two: Pick another song and repeat the process. Remember, you're doing all of this on a dark stage on a tablet.

You might be completely happy with three or five minutes between songs, but if you're playing in a bar, chances are that you've lost your audience by then. Dead air is deadly, unless you are also a very good comedian. grin



Regards,

Bob
Posted by: lambada

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/28/15 08:43 AM

:-) Bob, very true. At the moment I just sing and play guitar, but I would like to get some millage out of the gear gathered over the years. We shall see. At least I'm getting some good pointers. The Voicelive 3 extreme might have a few people licking their lips though smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wl9B6Rg5f4
Posted by: Takamine

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/28/15 09:09 AM

After creating a song in BIAB, I drop it into a DAW and add additional parts (if needed). When creating the song in BIAB, I often add a couple of bars of held chords in case I want to use those somewhere in the final mix. Once all is done and the beginning and ending are adjusted to my liking, I save the song as a WAV file and play that through my laptop for live performances.

To me, there are at least three issues with using BIAB in a live performance.
1. Time lag when generating tracks, although locking the parts would help with that.
2. Making sure midi instruments are routed properly.
3. BIAB periodically drops an instrument from the track. Not a major deal in the studio, but a real pain if using it live.

This is what works best for me, but there are other talented people on this board that use a totally different workflow and if it works for them, that's fine with me.

Best
Posted by: lambada

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/29/15 11:04 PM

Hi Tonnie

Just checking out your audio gear and clarifying my thoughts. I realised I already had the Roland UM, but just curious about the UA-1X (now the UA-AEX) and Roland XV-5050. Do you find this makes a huge difference to the sound rather than using the line out from a laptop? I guess it does. I have an SD 20, but was hoping to use soft synths as it would be simpler (I guess I could use the midi sounds in the guitar synth). Also given that I plan to use Realtracks rather than midi tracks I might just use midi for controlling pathches. I guess something similar to the UA-1X would improve Realtracks as well. My Asus tablet only has one USB3 output (a real drag) that runs the hard drive, so I'm not too keen to have other modules using it. (I had to move the realtracks off the internal drive as they were so big.) It does seem like wave files might be much simpler. I guess they also need a good audio out. grin I've been putting everything through a mixer/amp into a little PA. Now I'm wondering if the bass sounds/drums on the realtracks will be too much (lol).
Posted by: tonnie

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/30/15 06:28 AM

I find that most of the MIDI-sounds coming out of the XV-5050 are very realistic, but of course some are better than others.
I have never found the time to fiddle around with improving the sounds. E.g. the flute, soprano- and alto sax sound great, but tenor- and baritone sax not so great.

There are probably some newer multitimbral units available by now.
Of course I am very much into jazz, so I prefer realistic instrument sounds and asked the forum a while back about soft synths, but I found the answers not satisfactory.

Also my guitar synth (GR-33) also has some sounds that are good and others sound like “toys”!

Real tracks are preferable in jazz and bossa nova, but in some commercial and latin styles, MIDI styles are better (I think).

I run BiaB from my HP laptop’s hard drive and have only USB2 ports.
I use only one into a powered multi USB hub mounted inside my rack.

The Fender Passport 150 PA system I use looks like a Samsonite suitcase, but unpacks into two speaker and one mixer/amp units. Each speaker unit contains 6 speakers, of which the larges four are 5” Ø.

So this is not "big" enough for the faithful reproduction of a bass, bass drum etc. That is why I use the 1 rack unit crossover filter, feeding a.o. in the two bass amps.

But a PA with larger speakers (or with one powerful bass speaker) will simplify your setup.

Hope this answers some of you questions!

Tonnie
Posted by: tonnie

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/30/15 06:36 AM

Bob,

Loading a song takes less than 30 seconds, but I use that time to announce my next tune.

As I have never played in "outer Space", I must have been playing in the same real world as you.

Tonnie
Posted by: Tommy Trojan

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/30/15 09:08 AM

Maybe I should start a new thread, but I'll try here:

I like to play fiddle or guitar on stage and sing. I wish there was an upright bass player in the neighborhood that could accompany me. But there isn't. I love playing along with an upright bass.

However, some time ago, I discovered the real track bass in BIAB. At home, I like to isolate the base track and use my new zoom H5 multitrack recorder. First I lay down the base track and then overdub fiddle, guitar and or voice.

I wish I could take that bass track with me on stage so that I could have a virtual base backing me up on fiddle/guitar and voice. But I can't find any easy way to do that. I don't have a laptop but I have a new iPhone 6+. Maybe what I need to do is find a simple foot pedal to activate the BIAB bass track that is somehow connected through my iPhone and into the house PA sysstem. What ever the set up, it needs to be simple. It's hard enough to control all the variables so that you can begin playing back with just a bass track. If you don't start off perfectly, or you lose where you are in the song in the middle of the performance, it's a total disaster! :-)

Can anybody help me with a set up that would work for me? Thank you so much, Tom
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/30/15 09:20 AM

Originally Posted By: lambada
:-) The Voicelive 3 extreme might have a few people licking their lips though smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wl9B6Rg5f4


Holy Crap, that is Extreme. All the effects and changes pre-programmed in. No need to do a thing but hit play and sing. If I had all the time in the world along with the money...
Posted by: 90 dB

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/30/15 09:24 AM

Originally Posted By: tonnie
Bob,

Loading a song takes less than 30 seconds, but I use that time to announce my next tune.

As I have never played in "outer Space", I must have been playing in the same real world as you.

Tonnie




If you're taking a half a minute between songs, we're not playing in the same world. wink

Regards,

Bob
Posted by: J. Larry

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/30/15 09:42 AM

I used BIAB for years live with success. I played guitar, with vocals, along with a sax player. Played straight from the “Jukebox” feature on a laptop, into a mixer, and into the PA system. Worked great. Would still be doing that, but, got into arranger keyboards, which is a whole new ballgame for providing backing tracks.
Posted by: VideoTrack

Re: Using BIAB live - 05/30/15 11:55 AM

Originally Posted By: tonnie
Bob,

Loading a song takes less than 30 seconds, but I use that time to announce my next tune.

As I have never played in "outer Space", I must have been playing in the same real world as you.

Tonnie

Tonnie
Are your tracks are frozen? Loading a song and playing should take seconds.
Trev
Posted by: tonnie

Re: Using BIAB live - 06/01/15 06:06 AM

Trev,

Loading a song takes no time at all, but there is this moment after I press the play button.

It seems to be depending on how many tracks (instruments) there are in a arrangement and if there are one or two harmonies applied.

You might have read in my earlier postings (under the same heading), that I only occasionally use frozen tracks, and then as few as possible.

Brgds,
Tonnie
Posted by: VideoTrack

Re: Using BIAB live - 06/01/15 06:40 AM

If you freeze song tracks, but not, all, then playing the song will take some regeneration, which = some time

Why don't you freeze all tracks? What's the reason?

Is this time delay the same on other computers?

What's you computer spec? CPU, Memory, disk capacity etc?
Posted by: jt3

Re: Using BIAB live - 06/01/15 10:29 PM

I use biab all the time live. sometimes I go solo and then me and another guy do a duet. I'm playing just like I did when in a band. I don't have much as for video's though. I have posted some on facebook
Posted by: lambada

Re: Using BIAB live - 06/02/15 01:22 AM

Point taken re the videos everyone. What I'm finding interesting is the chatter, so keep it coming. I'm getting some ideas clear in my own head re how to go live and realising that BIAB isn't just guys doing songwriting in a bedroom/woodshed not that there is anything wrong with that. It's also kicking me into action (sort of.) Freezing would work for me as I'm busy enough with my other gear. Maybe wave files. It looks like I might need to get a decent audio interface for the tablet.
Posted by: tonnie

Re: Using BIAB live - 06/02/15 04:18 AM

In my posting 27 May I wrote:

"First I use BiaB, since each playback is somewhat different, which I as a jazz oriented player prefer."

Tonnie
Posted by: AlastairLC

Re: Using BIAB live - 07/05/15 08:27 AM

This all sounds so complicated (and backbreaking to transport). I just use my Fender Hot Rod Deville guitar amp that has two 12" speakers. My guitar goes into one input, BIAB IPad into the other. Sounds great. No fuss.
Any other guitarists doing this?
Posted by: BIABguy

Re: Using BIAB live - 07/07/15 01:36 PM

Originally Posted By: AlastairLC
This all sounds so complicated (and backbreaking to transport). I just use my Fender Hot Rod Deville guitar amp that has two 12" speakers. My guitar goes into one input, BIAB IPad into the other. Sounds great. No fuss.
Any other guitarists doing this?


All depends on your age and strength. smile

For me, a Fender HRD with 2x12's is way too heavy!

I've separated my Combos now into head + speaker cab so that the heaviest component is 27 lbs. smile
Posted by: AlastairLC

Re: Using BIAB live - 07/08/15 07:45 AM

Smart man! With my increasing age and decreasing strength, 54lbs is indeed a load to lug, but still worth it for the important gigs (a large wheel luggage cart helps). For rehearsals and other gigs I use a Fender Blues Jr. III (31lbs), but it doesn't have a separate input for BIAB. Do you play BIAB through your guitar amp, or use a separate PA system?
Posted by: tonnie

Re: Using BIAB live - 09/01/15 06:23 AM

Using BIAB live part 2.

My postings in Tom’s original thread “Using BIAB live” #297455 - 05/30/15 received some “flack” by some forum members who found my setup “too complicated”.

At first I felt that this was uncalled for criticism, as my setup both sounded great and for me it was workable.

However recently I have put together a somewhat simpler setup that sounds just as great (but without the option to sing close-harmony all by myself).

I built a laptop, a Roland Canvas SD-50 and a Behringer Super X Pro Crossover filter all into a SKB 1SKB19-RSF2U Studio Flyer Laptop/2U Rack/Flight Case with Wheels.

I will still need an additional stereo PA, like the e.g. Fender Passport and a small bass amp like e.g. Gallien-Krüger MB150, but the sound is just as great when using BB as my present setup.
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: Using BIAB live - 09/01/15 06:32 AM

Originally Posted By: tonnie
Using BIAB live part 2.

... received some “flack” by some forum members who found my setup “too complicated”.

At first I felt that this was uncalled for criticism, as my setup both sounded great and for me it was workable.


What, not here is our little friendly forum. grin
My live gear is about has complex as it can be. And after the one gig where it took me 10 minutes of stage time to find the switch which someone (me??) had thrown on my mixer which prevented any sound, I continue to simplify where I can.

Originally Posted By: tonnie

I built a laptop, a Roland Canvas SD-50 and a Behringer Super X Pro Crossover filter all into a SKB 1SKB19-RSF2U Studio Flyer Laptop/2U Rack/Flight Case with Wheels.


Got Pictures?
Posted by: GDaddy

Re: Using BIAB live - 09/05/15 04:39 PM

I have two Behringer Amps that sound great with BIAB....for my guitar/keyboard synths/bass guitars ...heavy suckers that need some wheels under them...


ULTRATONE K3000FX

Ultra-Flexible 300-Watt 4-Channel PA System / Keyboard Amplifier with FX and FBQ Feedback Detection

Ultra-flexible 300-Watt 4-channel PA System / Keyboard Amplifier
Powerful 15'' BUGERA woofer and custom-made 1'' driver for ultimate sound reproduction
Integrated digital FX processor with 100 awesome presets including reverb, chorus, flanger, delay, pitch shifter and various multi-effects
Revolutionary FBQ Feedback Detection System instantly reveals critical frequencies
Full 4-channel stereo operation with separate Volume and FX Send per channel
Additional XLR mic input on Channel 1 for direct connection of dynamic microphones

Bass Amp:
The Behringer ULTRABASS BXL900 90 watt 2 Channel Bass workstation. Truly affordable, wedge-shaped Bass Workstation .

The Behringer ULTRABASS BXL900 is a truly affordable wedge-shaped Bass Workstation with a powerful 12 inch special high-impact cone speaker. With 90 Watts of power, your performance will never run out of breath. It features one clean and one distortion channel with full control, a 7-band EQ with a revolutionary See-What-You-Play FBQ frequency indicator that immediately shows you which bass frequency corresponds with which fader on your EQ to allow you instant sound shaping and a switchable Ultrabass subharmonics processor. A musical limiter guarantees playing without distortion on the clean channel even at the highest volume levels. You can use the separate headphone output whenever you need to keep your music just to yourself.

The main features of the Behringer ULTRABASS BXL900 include:

Powerful 90-Watt 2-channel Bass Workstation in wedge-shaped cabinet
Original BUGERA 12 inch special high-impact cone speaker
Clean channel with dedicated Gain control
Distortion channel with dedicated Gain, Shape and Level controls
Ultra-musical, active 7-band graphic EQ with FBQ Spectrum Analyzer
Revolutionary "See what you play" FBQ frequency indicator for instant sound shaping
Switchable Ultrabass subharmonics processor for unbelievable low-end power
Musical opto-limiter for ultimate volume without distortion
Separate headphone output—perfect for quiet practicing
CD input allows you to play along to your favorite music

I love the play and sing jazz and Broadway orientd (American Songbook} material. I utilize BIAB mostly already setup for Real Band and Real Drum Backing...don't wanna bother with arranging per Se,
but outright jamming/singings with the present files available and pre-constructed.
I have downloaded a number of hits, mostly originals...and I'll sometimes use my JamMan to eliminate their voice. and use mine, which is "almost" identical in tone and phrasing to that old swinger, Mel Torme. All of this is available on my HP 300 laptop, along with Sonar Platinum, so I have a deep variety of back-up choices.

Taking my GR-303 and GM-70 Synth/Jsxx rack unit (ala Metheney), a Fender fretless-bass guitar, and a couple of "knock-off" Gibsons, 335's and 175's are all "musts" for gigs. I have also used a rolling PeaveyRack unit, which houses, among other things, some lexicons and
other assorted effects and loopers.

I also have some Boss Pedals and guitar pedal boards, if called for.

Posted by: 90 dB

Re: Using BIAB live - 09/06/15 06:35 AM

Since I was one who gave you 'flack', allow me to elucidate. Your statement:


“Secondly I play guitar though a pedal board into a guitar amp, but also via a Roland GR-33 guitar synth into my stereo PA, a Fender Passport 150.

From my laptop I split the BiaB output via a Roland UM one into an UA-1 X (for Real Sounds) and Roland XV-5050 (For MIDI sound) and (MIDI) Output Chords to my TC-Helicon Voice Works (For “Close Harmony” singing “Four Freshmen”-style),

The Real and Midi sounds are mixed together with the aid of a small (4 channel mixer) and then go through a 3 way crossover filter. The output of the treble and middle tones are sent (in stereo) to the mixer part of the Passport, while the bass part is send to two Gallien-Krueger bass amps. 

This way the bass, bass drum and the lower end of the piano do not “burden” the small Passport speakers and can be fully controlled separately. 

The outputs from the TC-Helicon Voice Works go in stereo via an Antares AVP-1 and into the Passport mixer.”



I'm sorry, but that is a very complicated setup for a single. You could accomplish all of that with a laptop, small format mixer and a decent PA. I see more of that setup than any other these days.

I don't want to bust your chops, but the Fender “Passport” is a toy. You might consider a couple of powered speakers or a Bose system. Danny C has a Bose, and loves it.

If your system sounds good to you and you're happy with it, more power to you. I didn't mean to rain on your parade – I was just making an observation.


Regards,

Bob
Posted by: tonnie

Re: Using BIAB live - 10/27/15 07:00 AM

After having used the setup I mentioned, I have found that I should have bought a 3U Rack/Flight Case. As the SD-50 is not rack mountable and one can not see the top of it, while inside the rack. Otherwise is all works very well.
Posted by: 90 dB

Re: Using BIAB live - 10/27/15 08:35 AM

Originally Posted By: tonnie
After having used the setup I mentioned, I have found that I should have bought a 3U Rack/Flight Case. As the SD-50 is not rack mountable and one can not see the top of it, while inside the rack. Otherwise is all works very well.



Supposedly, there was a rack mount adapter available separately from Roland for the SD-50. If you can find one, you might consider a slant-top rack like these:

http://store.roadreadycases.com/dyn_prodlist.php?k=154310


I have the 10U case, and it's built like a tank - very heavy as well. I've got my Soundcraft mixer, EQs, amp - everything in the one case. Makes setup a lot easier.


Regards,

Bob
Posted by: PhillyJazz

Re: Using BIAB live - 10/27/15 11:14 AM

I would LOVE to see the notation be a little more flexible with songs that span two pages. I mostly use .PDF fakebooks, but have lots of BIAB songs that are not in any of them (or need to be transposed on the fly.) I have a Surface Pro 3 tablet, and most of the time end up printing to a .PDF on my desktop to read. Would love to eliminate those steps.

I think there would be a market for an app that could just DISPLAY (and transpose) BIAB format files just to be used as a Fakebook (at a lower price than the full featured program.)
Posted by: solidrock

Re: Using BIAB live - 10/28/15 01:12 AM

Originally Posted By: PhillyJazz
...I think there would be a market for an app that could just DISPLAY (and transpose) BIAB format files just to be used as a Fakebook (at a lower price than the full featured program.)


https://musescore.org/
Posted by: tonnie

Re: Using BIAB live - 10/29/15 06:25 AM

Bob,

Thanks for your tip.
However, the SKB 1SKB19-RSF2U Studio Flyer Laptop/2U Rack/Flight Case has the Laptop on top of the case, so I was more thinking of a sliding 19" tray to mount the SD-50 on, as I do not have to see it all the time, just sometimes to adjust certain items.

Brgds,
Tonnie
Posted by: 90 dB

Re: Using BIAB live - 10/29/15 07:10 AM

Originally Posted By: tonnie
Bob,

Thanks for your tip.
However, the SKB 1SKB19-RSF2U Studio Flyer Laptop/2U Rack/Flight Case has the Laptop on top of the case, so I was more thinking of a sliding 19" tray to mount the SD-50 on, as I do not have to see it all the time, just sometimes to adjust certain items.

Brgds,
Tonnie




You're using the SKB case now, and the SD-50 doesn't fit? You might consider a more low-tech solution - Velcro. I have a spare USB interface mounted underneath my music stand with Velcro. Cheap and it works.



Regards,

Bob
Posted by: bowlesj

Re: Using BIAB live - 12/21/15 02:15 PM

I was reading this thread about gigging with BIAB live (or with recordings created by BIAB) and found it very interesting. I want to thank everyone for contributing. It has helped inspire me to keep at this project. I am planning on doing this for jazz standards initially advertising jazz jams but if that does not work out just playing myself with BIAB being used for the backing tracks. It is an experiment and we will see if it can help a struggling restaurant make a bit more money on a slow night :-) Here are two small things I can contribute

1/ I just tested the space bar on the computer and it pauses the BIAB song so stopping BIAB fast is not a problem.

2/ for finding a song quickly if it is requested by someone, in windows 7 you can do this.
Press: Alt+F
Press: o (at this point the directory where your BIAB files are should be showing)
Press: the first few characters of your song name and it shows in the list.
Press: the down arrow key to get to the song
Press: enter to pull the song up in band in a box.
Press: space bar to start the song.
I timed this and I would say 5 to 10 seconds is the longest it should take to start the song if you are only using the computer for running BIAB and it is always highlighted.
Posted by: John Payne

Re: Using BIAB live - 12/21/15 07:13 PM

Hello bowlesj (et al),

I've been using BIAB live for the past 8 years for standards-based restaurant gigs in the Dallas area. BIAB in a Samsung laptop with Godin nylon string guitar, all feeding a small Mackie mixer and PA. Mostly Real-Tracks, it all sounds great.

I just click on the song I want and get a new build with about 5 choruses in about 5 seconds. Have never had any computer problems or glitches.

I'm far from "techno-shy" (EE by background), but when performing I prefer to concentrate more on the music than futzing with gear.

Just keeping things simple.

Good luck,
John Payne
Posted by: bowlesj

Re: Using BIAB live - 12/22/15 11:24 AM

Thanks John, It is great to hear about people using BIAB for live gigs. I will start out simple like you are with more or less the same setup of BIAB live running on a new notebook running Win 7, a small 6 input mixer which can take both BIAB feed and phono inputs for guitar etc, a Godin guitar as well and a simple guitar amp or two. I will test it once I get the songs polished up a little better. I will advertise it as a jazz jam inviting others to come. Hopefully they can bring their instrument only and plug into the mixing board. If the jamming idea gets popular I was thinking I might need a 2nd notebook to take an audacity recording from a mike out front to do a quick check on what the audience hears since it would likely be different every time (adjusting the mixer as needed). If the jazz jam idea does not seem to attract many players and after a few weeks it always seems to be only BIAB and myself providing the music then hopefully the restaurant/bars business increases enough to keep it up. Keeping it simple is certainly the way to go. I think I would only make it more complex if jammers who are into jazz rock or funk show up. In that case I may get a guitar synth. It should be a fun project. Maybe in a few months from now I can report back with some useful info.

Have a great Christmas,
John Bowles
Posted by: PeterGannon

Re: Using BIAB live - 12/22/15 02:56 PM

Nice thread. Good to see lots of people out gigging, and using Band-in-a-Box.
Posted by: John Payne

Re: Using BIAB live - 12/22/15 05:42 PM

Good luck with jam. I have from one to three guys play with me. Just depends on who shows up.

I've turned another sax player friend on to the product who been running a rig very much like mine for the past 3 years or so and he gets pretty steady work.

BIAB has a real-time Conductor function which "should" work well in a live jam session as it "should" allow you to seamlessly add or remove choruses while a song is playing.

But, it turns out that though Conductor works perfectly for MIDI files, it pauses and does other flaky things with endings when using Real Tracks. Unusable.

I've commented on this via the forums several times over the years and have upgraded every year hoping ... but never a fix. I guess whatever the problem is must be tough to deal with.

Oh well, BIAB is still a great product when one considers all the things that do work great and the great sound you can get running through a good PA.
Posted by: bowlesj

Re: Using BIAB live - 12/23/15 03:06 AM

Thanks John, If this project continues for me I have a jazz guitar student who will probably show up. I have a friend who turned me on to BIAB who may show as well. I am wondering if some audience members may prefer the jams and others may prefer it without the added players. I guess time will tell.
Posted by: AlastairLC

Re: Using BIAB live - 12/25/15 01:56 PM

A question for all you BIAB live users: what's the best PA system for playing BIAB through (viz., clear, clean reproduction within a reasonable size/weight unit)?
I see references here to Fender Passport (speakers look too small to me), Behringer Ultratone K3000FX (70lbs, no thanks), and Mackie. Has anybody tried the Behringer Ultratone KXD15, Harbinger Vari V2115, or Mackie Thump? (I'm partial to 12" speakers for the bass.)
And for you guitarists, how does your axe sound through a PA sustem? Can you leave your guitar amp at home?
Xmas cheers!
Posted by: Danny C.

Re: Using BIAB live - 12/25/15 08:50 PM

I have been through quite a few different systems in the past 10 years or so and IMHO the Bose LII I am using now can't be beat.

Of course as our old friend Mac would say, "your mileage my vary."

Later,
Posted by: raymb1

Re: Using BIAB live - 12/25/15 09:13 PM

I'm a keyboardist, (Casio PX5s), and my amp/speaker is the Center Point Stereo Space Station V3. The SS V3 is great for small to medium sized gigs. I also use a small mixer. Minimal set-up and sound is great. Ray
Posted by: earl kirby

Re: Using BIAB live/Behringer EPS500MP3 - 12/26/15 08:50 AM

Thinking of getting off my butt and going back to playing the small restaurants and service clubs etc. I'm into the standards and trad country. Need a amplification system and I've been looking real hard at the Behringer EPS500MP3 . At $400 its affordable. Question is, will it handle the bass? And if not how do I split the bass out to a separate bass amp? I'm 71 and really don't want to carry anything more than necesary but also don't want to be embarrassed with weak sound.
Posted by: jt3

Re: Using BIAB live - 12/26/15 08:07 PM

we do use biab live and have been for 6 to 8 yrs. we arrange the song and put the words in as a reference points. I can play my on lead or fiddle or mandolin. I use a harmonizer which I send a biab from monitor out. as far as a video I did one for a song I posted on FB. We normally use a mixer run into a pair of Bose towers. we have run threw much bigger set up with SP2,s and 18" subs. biab live works well for us
John
Posted by: 90 dB

Re: Using BIAB live - 12/27/15 03:56 AM

Originally Posted By: AlastairLC
A question for all you BIAB live users: what's the best PA system for playing BIAB through (viz., clear, clean reproduction within a reasonable size/weight unit)?
I see references here to Fender Passport (speakers look too small to me), Behringer Ultratone K3000FX (70lbs, no thanks), and Mackie. Has anybody tried the Behringer Ultratone KXD15, Harbinger Vari V2115, or Mackie Thump? (I'm partial to 12" speakers for the bass.)
And for you guitarists, how does your axe sound through a PA sustem? Can you leave your guitar amp at home?
Xmas cheers!






“Behringer Ultratone KXD15, Harbinger Vari V2115, or Mackie Thump?”


Given those choices, I would go with the Mackie.

At $269 (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Thump12) and 29 pounds, it should do you. You will probably need a stand, and be aware that the 12” Thump only claims 50Hz, on the low end. For another $30 (and another 4 lbs.) you could get the 15, which claims a low end of 32Hz.


Regards,

Bob
Posted by: AlastairLC

Re: Using BIAB live - 12/29/15 09:21 AM

I went down to the local Guitar Center yesterday, BIAB-loaded IPad in hand, to test out their various PA units. I settled on the QSC K12 active loudspeaker. Wow, what a difference from my old stereo system or guitar amp! I'm hearing sounds coming from the BIAB instruments I never heard before.
It costs more than the units I was thinking about, but its much clearer and more compact.(QSC also makes K8s and K10s that are a bit cheaper.)
So if you're looking for a great player of your BIAB backing tracks, I highly recommend this unit.
Posted by: John Payne

Re: Using BIAB live - 12/29/15 09:35 AM

I expect that any decent PA system will work well with BIAB live. Just need enough power and speaker for the venue, and that depends on the room. For instance the Mackie SRM's sound great at home especially with a small subwoofer which makes the real-tracks stand-up bass sound real. At the restaurant / club those smallish Mackie's still work great, but the subwoofer in that room sound boomy. I usually fly one speaker up on a stand about 4 feet then use the other from the floor behind me - so it's also a monitor.

As for guitar, I mostly play nylon string type guitars which in my opinion need "hi-fi", so with the addition of a small bit of compression and delay/reverb, I just play through the PA. An added benefit of playing through one system is easy to balance and control the overall sound, which I think is very important for restaurant gigs.

I've upgraded every year and from my experience BIAB has been rock stable for live gigs for at least 5 years.
Posted by: lambada

Re: Using BIAB live - 02/23/16 11:17 PM

Hi All

Just re-read this wonderful thread and it made me realise how lucky I am to be in this 'family', to have the tools available to me in 2016 and the experience of so many to help me with my passion.

I did my first solo gig with BIAB2016 on Saturday and it went reasonably well. I learnt a huge amount and made a fair few mistakes. Drunks were my biggest problem. I'm not sure which is worse, being bowled over by drunk woman or helped out by drunk men, but I know which I preferred! I also made the mistake of trying to be a DJ and Karaoke DJ at the same time. Never again or at least not yet. "We want Abba, we want Maroon...., we want Motorhead (for goodness sake) etc etc.

Anyway, it took far too long to set up but I had given myself plenty of time. Nearly had a minor heart attack when a loose connection developed on a PA speaker and some feedback from poor placement, and a major one on the mysterious disappearance of my guitar strap an hour before the gig. I reckon the waiters took it away with some linen. Fortunately, I had a screwdriver and pliers so we created one out of string and guitar case strap. Now I will always take 2 straps.

BIAB behaved very well but my PA died at one point. Cheap Chinese built, South Korean brand. To be replaced by an Aspen SS3 I suspect. My Voicelive 2 froze at one point but the midi patch changing and harmonies worked perfectly from BIAB with that one exception.

I video'd it for my education (depression) and you can see BIAB on the tablet behind. BIAB is playing 'favourites' through the jukebox perfectly with no delays. Nothing is frozen.

I realise I need to do some work on the mixes but bear in mind that the video camera is off to the right near a table. Everyone was so damn.... noisy :-). I don't think the live sound was quite so muffled.

I don't smile enough and for some stupid reason I always look at my guitar when I solo, just a habit to be stopped. My song choice could have been more varied, louder and less backing tracks - might remove any guitar, my vocals were too soft, solos not loud enough, but the feedback from the crowd was good.

Anyway, enjoy and constructive criticism will be much appreciated. eek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NByBHfAo608

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wysG_yKDSEE


Neil
Posted by: DrDUBose

Re: Using BIAB live - 02/24/16 09:56 AM

You looked great, Neil. Absolutely marvelous. Very professional. Not sure what was so, in terms of your overall mix that may be compromised by how the video was recorded, but the backing tracks could have been boosted for a more balanced mix. They seemed to be way into the background. Curious, did you try to do a sound check before beginning to check your balance of sound sources? Thanks for sharing... And keep rockin' the house!
Posted by: VideoTrack

Re: Using BIAB live - 02/24/16 02:13 PM

Neil, I suspect the high background noise was only due to the mic placement on camera. It was probably closer to the crowd than it was to the PA. Also, some camera mic's tend to have an accentuated high frequency response, while losing out on the low and mid range, hence the background 'din'

Did you feel that the PA was driving hard enough?
Did you have a foldback that might have 'masked' your perception of how loud the PA was?

Don't be too critical of yourself, I never saw one tomato!
Good job
Trevor
Posted by: lambada

Re: Using BIAB live - 02/24/16 04:15 PM

Agree. I think BIAB was a bit louder than it sounded, in retrospect, it was too quiet so I'll bring the mix up next time. It's a shame cos BIAB sounds great (sigh).

Yes, re the video, I didn't want people tripping over it as I was near the entrance. I sort of sound checked but the room was empty and I should have been more thorough or had the experience to know what to look out for. To be honest loosing the guitar strap really stuffed up the timing of several things! cry

I'll start a regular show on a weeknight in a local bar or pub to fine tune that side of things. grin
Posted by: J. Larry

Re: Using BIAB live - 02/24/16 08:08 PM

Played a live gig today on guitar and vocals with BIAB 2016. First time in a couple of years, since I had switched to gigging with arranger keyboards. Got another job tomorrow using BIAB. Today went well. A mixture of standards, country, and latin. Setup was BIAB on a laptop (Windows), running straight to a small Yamaha mixer, then to a pair of Bose L1 Compact speakers. Great clarity and fullness in the sound. No problems or complaints. Two big issues were apparent: one, the need for me to better mix/balance my tracks so that the volume levels are consistent across songs and styles. And, two, the need to have the capability of larger fonts (in bold) for the bar lyrics. If possible, I’d be willing to split the difference between lyric font size and size of the chord symbols within the given space that’s allowed.
Posted by: VideoTrack

Re: Using BIAB live - 02/25/16 02:06 AM

Originally Posted By: J. Larry
... And, two, the need to have the capability of larger fonts (in bold) for the bar lyrics. If possible, I’d be willing to split the difference between lyric font size and size of the chord symbols within the given space that’s allowed.


What version of BiaB are you using? Some of these features are changeable in the 2016 version. Here's an example:
Posted by: 1manband

Re: Using BIAB live - 02/25/16 02:45 AM

Will the change demonstrated above also change the font size on the "bar lyrics"? That was J. Larry's concern...
Posted by: jazzmammal

Re: Using BIAB live - 02/25/16 08:33 AM

A comment on sound systems. People have referred to Fender Passports, Mackie Thumps and the like. Those things are crap.

Why would someone spend good money on Biab with all the studio recorded RT's, good quality midi synths/samplers then use a cheapo sound system? That kills the whole thing.

The person who auditioned the QSC K10 and bought it has the right idea. Good sound isn't cheap so don't cheap out on it. It has to be the biggest part of your budget, not the smallest. You START with a good solid sound system first and go from there.

I'm also using a CPS Spacestation but not for one man band gigs, just for my keyboards. When I first got it the first thing I did at home was run some Biab songs through it and it sounded very nice. On the CPS website there are a ton of vids demoing that unit in small group situations and it sounds great. Another good possibility is EV powered PA speakers. I think those are very good for the money. I have the ELX112P and it also sounds great. The new series are ZLX I think. A pair of those is around $800 or so. Those and a GOOD mixer, again not some $100 cheap thing, can sound really good with Biab tracks.

Don't go bottom fishing with your sound system after all the time and effort you've spent on getting your tunes just right.

Bob
Posted by: 1manband

Re: Using BIAB live - 02/25/16 08:59 AM

I completely agree with Bob on sound systems. If you want or need something lightweight that still sounds very good, I recommend the Bose systems. They come in 3 or 4 sizes now so you can get one as small or large as you need.

I have the original Bose L1 Classic with one subwoofer and it sounds excellent yet is compact to transport and won't hurt my back to lift any part of it. I have used Mackie and Peavey mixers with it and both sound good. I run BIAB, my guitar, and 4 vocals through the system and it has always had more than enough clean power and good distribution of sound throughout the room.
Posted by: Charlie Fogle

Re: Using BIAB live - 02/25/16 04:27 PM

Originally Posted By: lambada
Agree. I think BIAB was a bit louder than it sounded, in retrospect, it was too quiet so I'll bring the mix up next time. It's a shame cos BIAB sounds great (sigh).

Yes, re the video, I didn't want people tripping over it as I was near the entrance. I sort of sound checked but the room was empty and I should have been more thorough or had the experience to know what to look out for. To be honest loosing the guitar strap really stuffed up the timing of several things! cry

I'll start a regular show on a weeknight in a local bar or pub to fine tune that side of things. grin


In the event you want to video future shows, to get the best audio sound, record the sound and video separately. It's quite easy to do and inexpensive. Separate recordings of the audio and video allows you much more flexibility in camera placement as will as the opportunity to use multiple video sources to edit your video with various camera angles. There are many good YouTube tutorials with step by step instructions to show you how to everything from setting up through burning your DVD.
Posted by: J. Larry

Re: Using BIAB live - 02/25/16 08:53 PM

Video Track: I’m using BIAB 2016. I’ve got the chord fonts adjusted just fine. I think it was your postings that helped get that adjusted. It’s the size of the bar lyrics that’s the problem. I haven’t figured out if they can be increased in size, made bold, or whatever. I can change the color, but not the height of the horizontal box they appear in. Maybe it’s there and I’ve not found it as yet. I agree with others on the comments about the need for high quality speakers with BIAB. Like others, I’ve been through Peavey, Mackie, EV, and a host others over the years. Bose has worked out best for me. I really liked the larger L1 model; but, it just got too heavy for this senior player. So, I sold it and went with two Bose Compacts. They fit my needs better; but, the Compact doesn’t sound as good as the larger model. Guess we have to live with trade-offs. Some of the arranger keyboard players are singing the praises of the latest Maui 5 speaker system. It’s less costly than the Bose and some say it sounds better, with more features.