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Posted By: BIABguy SampleTank DXi - 08/09/15 10:39 PM
How would I install SampleTank DXi in BIAB?

When I right-click on a track as directed,
I can see "Select Hi-Q midi synth patch..."
But when I select a patch I get a message saying
SampleTank DXi is not installed!

So how do I install it? smile

Using BIAB 2015.

Thanks!
Posted By: DrDan Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/10/15 10:09 AM
Well while I am on a role and I don't want to keep you hangin. But, I don't have an answer for you other than I know this can be difficult/tricky - but doable. I had it all working nicely at the beginning, but then I install ST3 and things got confused (or maybe it was me).

Otherwise, my workflow does not use ST in BIAB. I generally transfer the midi to Reaper where ST3 works like a charm.

You have to discover "your workflow" to keep things moving smoothly, Good luck.

Try this.
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=224835

and this

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=393268&site_id=1

OK, I found the original thread - this one got it working for me back in the day.

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=392701&site_id=1#import

The conclusion was "don't load the Dxi", you need to be using the VST.dll
Posted By: Larry Kehl Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/10/15 05:53 PM
Yes, when you have control over the synth to use (i.e., when YOU are selecting what soft synth to use and you want to use SampleTank, then use ST's VSTi not its DXi - at least within BIAB). HOWEVER, the default for Hi-Q sounds is the SampleTank DXi - you can't (easily) control which ST plug-in (VSTi or DXi) is called up.

Note, if/when you install IK's ST 2.5 (free or full) separately, I mean separate from a BIAB install, it installs both the DXi and the VSTi.

When you install the FULL BIAB it also installs the ST 2.5 DXi (it's a default check box item doing full install unless you unchecked it?)

Good luck
Larry
Posted By: BIABguy Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/10/15 09:22 PM
Originally Posted By: Larry Kehl
.

Note, if/when you install IK's ST 2.5 (free or full) separately, I mean separate from a BIAB install, it installs both the DXi and the VSTi.

When you install the FULL BIAB it also installs the ST 2.5 DXi (it's a default check box item doing full install unless you unchecked it?)

Good luck
Larry


Thanks Larry, it looks like I'll be needing more than good luck with this one. smile

I could use some hand-holding right now.
PG Music is closed at the moment.

I likely did not install the plugins when I installed BIAB.
However I just installed them now (Sampletank + others) doing another BIAB setup.

I still can't see ST inside BIAB.

When I right-click on a track Select HI-Q midi, I still get a pop-up saying "ST DXi is not installed..."

Also, does the ST that comes with BIAB (when it's working) last more than a couple of weeks, or do you have to register it to work?

TIA
Posted By: BIABguy Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/10/15 09:38 PM
I think I'm getting closer to the heart of the problem.

As some will recall, I have installed two sets of Windows on my hd.

One on c: (regular Windows) and one on f: drive (Music Windows).


I booted into my f: drive which is dedicated to just Music Apps.
I did a another setup of BIAB and this time chose to install the SampleTank plugin (plus some others).

Digging around I noticed that the IK Sampletank folder ended up on c: drive !!!

BIAB asked me to explicitly state where my installation was going to go (for 4 parts of the program).

Since I am installing to an external hd (i: drive) I made the change to this.

However BIAB wasn't smart enough to figure out that I had booted from f: drive, and installed SampleTank to c: drive.


What to do folks to get this fixed?

Any experts here?

TIA
Posted By: BIABguy Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/10/15 10:40 PM
Getting closer... but still not there.

I was able to install ST to f: drive doing a manual install.

So I fire up BIAB and it still can't find ST! frown

Arghhhh !!!
Posted By: BIABguy Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/10/15 11:00 PM
Continue to do more detective work (wasting time?) and discovered that the last install on f: drive was not as complete as the install on c: drive !!!

On c: drive we have ST 2.5.exe plus a ton more files that were not installed on f: !

Manual install did not do the trick. frown
Posted By: pedwards2932 Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/10/15 11:00 PM
Does BIAB see it at all? When you go into Midi and you have the option to pick which DXi do you see ST at all? In mine I was able to select SampleTank then I had to click the PREFS button and repoint BIAB to where ST was on my drive. PREFs is the button to the left of the Large 2.5.
Posted By: BIABguy Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/11/15 02:14 AM
Originally Posted By: pedwards2932
Does BIAB see it at all? When you go into Midi and you have the option to pick which DXi do you see ST at all? In mine I was able to select SampleTank then I had to click the PREFS button and repoint BIAB to where ST was on my drive. PREFs is the button to the left of the Large 2.5.


I have been making steady progress with this.
I'm not where I want to be exactly, but a lot closer than I was a few hours ago.
I can now see ST inside BIAB!

You know the expression, "It worked right out of the box."?

If only the same was true with BIAB. frown

The Band is great inside the box, but try and take it out and that's when you'll encounter all kinds of problems!

Let me give you just one example...

Error: No Hi-Q ST Instrument at F: Prog\IK \ST 2.5\Instrum\BIAB\BIAB


"Solution is to move BIAB instrument folder from here: F: prog\IK\ST 2.5\Instrum\BIAB
to here: F: prog\IK\ST 2.5\Instrum\BIAB\BIAB"


Now that makes total sense! Doesn't it? frown











Posted By: pedwards2932 Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/11/15 07:23 AM
That was the type of error I was getting and I used the live help and they pointed out what I was saying about the PREF button. You need to click that then use the browse function to browse to your ST installations Instruments folder. Once you do that then BIAB will be able to access ST. Hope that makes sense. If not I have found that the live help for BIAB is really pretty good.
Posted By: pedwards2932 Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/11/15 02:34 PM
You really need to check out that pref button as it resolved my problem. I have my ST on my D drive and BIAB on an external and it works fine now that I have BIAB pointed to the correct place. You have to open BIAB as administrator then midi->midi driver set up then VST/DXI synth settings then see if ST appears as one of your choices.....if it doesn't then BIAB doesn't see it at all on your computer. If it does then if you select SampleTank then you can use the pref button to point BIAB to exactly where your installation of ST resides. Hope this helps.
Posted By: BIABguy Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/11/15 05:27 PM
Originally Posted By: pedwards2932
You really need to check out that pref button as it resolved my problem. I have my ST on my D drive and BIAB on an external and it works fine now that I have BIAB pointed to the correct place. ...
If it does then if you select SampleTank then you can use the pref button to point BIAB to exactly where your installation of ST resides. Hope this helps.


When you talk about the Pref button, which button are you talking about specifically?
BIAB's preferences or ST's?

BTW I got ST to show up in BIAB and according to PG Music it is now working properly! smile
Posted By: BIABguy Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/11/15 05:31 PM
When the ST interface is opened up in BIAB I see a pop-up telling me:

"You have 9 days left until ST must be authorized"

Is the authorization necessary?
What happens after 9 days?

When I clicked on the Start/Programs/IK Multimedia/Authorization Manager

I was taken to a step by step author. process.
At step two it said I needed to upgrade something.
When it tried to open my browser and upgrade, nothing happened.
Posted By: jford Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/11/15 05:43 PM
Even if you are using the free version of the SampleTank that you get from PG-Music, software, you still need to authorize the software. You have to get your authorization number from the IK web site. When you register on the site you get access to "your area", where you can get all your authorization numbers and download links.
Posted By: DrDan Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/11/15 06:18 PM
You will have to update your Authorization Manager (we all did). Oh boy, get ready for some more fun...
Posted By: pedwards2932 Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/11/15 07:25 PM
The pref button is to the left of the big 2.5 in the red ST screen it is at bottom of the buttons. It will allow you to browse to wherever your SampleTank is installed. I tried to added pictures to help.


Description: this is the screen with the prefs button
Attached picture prefs.JPG

Description: this where you browse to where you ST installation resides
Attached picture browse.JPG
Posted By: BIABguy Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/12/15 01:23 AM
Originally Posted By: pedwards2932
The pref button is to the left of the big 2.5 in the red ST screen it is at bottom of the buttons. It will allow you to browse to wherever your SampleTank is installed. I tried to added pictures to help.


OK thanks pedwards!

That is the screen I thought you were talking about.
Because the box is so small I can't see the entire list of folders but I'll assume it is correct. smile
Posted By: BIABguy Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/12/15 01:28 AM
Originally Posted By: jazzmandan
You will have to update your Authorization Manager (we all did). Oh boy, get ready for some more fun...


Thanks John and Dan!
I'm really looking forward to more fun and adventures! smile

I found it interesting when a PG tech guy told me that if I limited my use of ST samples to the lists that BIAB provides (not bring up the ST red interface) I could still use all the ST samples and not have to bother going through the authorization process.

Anyone try that route?
Posted By: pedwards2932 Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/12/15 07:18 AM
Since I have a full version of SampleTank that is registered I will probably use that.....but when you select find a HiQ sound it is pretty much going to use the BIAB sounds. I have to find out which channel the instrument is using and then load that sound in my full version of ST manually. So no I haven't tried it.
Posted By: sixchannel Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/16/15 05:22 PM
Doesnt all this messing about tell PG that there is something inherently wrong with the way ST installs/ works within BIAB and that a better solution needs to be found - a program within BIAB perhaps that auto installs it.
Why, for goodness sake, when I buy BIAB with ST in it should I need to go to a third party to get authorisation or it wont work? And worse, why is it such a mess to get working. If PG dont believe me - go look at the number of threads where folks cant get it to work. I'm a Musician - thats why I bought BIAB - NOT a computer Programmer.
Biabguy - I hope you are successful. Me? I gave up on it last year and dont bother with it now.
Posted By: jazzmammal Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/16/15 06:05 PM
Originally Posted By: sixchannel
I'm a Musician - thats why I bought BIAB - NOT a computer Programmer.


Becoming a computer nerd (not exactly a programmer but a nerd) is EXACTLY what you need to do if you want to advance when working with digital audio. I know because your quoted comment is pretty much word for word what I posted here way back when.

A little history. First Biab HAS NO SOUND OF IT'S OWN. Digest that comment for a minute. It's just a program. It does NOT produce sound. What produces the sound you ask? Whatever midi synth YOU DECIDE TO USE. I'm not talking about Real Tracks now, only midi sounds.

PG wants to set customers up with some basic sounds so when they install Biab and hit Play they hear something. For years that was the Roland VSC. The VSC goes back to the 80's and Roland stopped updating it like 20 years ago. It only works on 32 bit systems while pretty much everybody now is on a 64 bit systems so the VSC is out. What could PG do? First they worked with Coyote to write some code that lets Biab use the very primitive Window's wavetable synth that is part of any Windows OS. Those sounds are very unsatisfactory though. What is out there that doesn't cost anything, as in FREE, that PG might use? How about SampleTank Free? Turns out ST allows anybody to write their own patches and link them up so the HQ patch set was born.

Here's the point though. PG has squat to do with IKM. Totally separate companies. PG can't log into IKM and set up an account for you, you have to do that and it's spelled out clearly in the installation docs that you apparently didn't read.

IKM gives away ST Free in the hope you will like it and then buy some of their pretty good sound libraries. Simple as that.

My point in explaining all this is when it comes to digital audio, the overall market is so small it's up to you to figure this all out. PG gives you a very detailed explanation of how to go to the IKM website and set it all up.

To get back to my main point though about Biab having no sounds of it's own. You're totally free to buy whatever software synth or hardware synth like the Ketron SD2 or maybe a Roland Sonic Cell you want. The sound part is completely up to you. All PG is doing is giving you two things, the Coyote Wavetable and instructions how to use ST FREE to be able to use the HQ sound set that requires that.

Otherwise you're free to go and buy any synth you want.

Bob
Posted By: Jim Fogle Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/16/15 06:51 PM
Jazzmammal,

I agree the weak link using midi with Windows is the funky sounding wavetable instrument sounds that Windows uses by default. I also agree PG Music has offered multiple free instrument sound upgrades including the Roland VSC and Coyote WT. However neither option requires setting up an account or registration. Neither option requires the user to associate a selected instrument sound with a midi channel. In comparison, Sampletank is much more difficult to set up or use than either VSC or WT.

In my opinion PG Music would have been better served by replacing VSC, a universal midi sound module, with it's successor the Roland TTS-1 which is also a universal midi sound module. That way those users that desire to use banks of discrete midi instrument sounds could use Kontact, Sampletank or some other multi channel midi player I've overlooked.

In retrospect, perhaps Sampletank was not the best solution for a universal midi instrument player.
Posted By: MarioD Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/16/15 08:36 PM
Jim, SampleTank is not designed to be a universal MIDI instrument player. Only a GM (General MIDI) synth is a universal MIDI instrument player. Anything other a GM synth requires very similar setups as SampleTank. If you want really good MIDI sounds you have to dig down and learn MIDI.

Also it you are going to use a non-universal MIDI instrument player you should not use it in BiaB (this is my opinion only) and use it in a DAW. BiaB is a PITA when it comes to non-universal MIDI instrument players, but I will justify that by saying BiaB was not designed that way. It is designed for GM synths and I think they added SamplTank to help people move away from GM, at least those of us who use MIDI and/or want to learn MIDI.

This is just my opinion and yours may vary.
Posted By: pedwards2932 Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/17/15 07:40 AM
I can only speak from my experience and the only issue I had with the SampleTank install is I already had ST so it gave me 2 instances of ST and at that point BIAB had difficulty locating it. Since the BIAB installation program put ST in you'd think it would know where it put it while installing it. But then it was just a simple matter of showing BIAB where the install was. If you think registering ST is a pain you need to try installing Adobe Cloud products.....just saying. The only other issue I had which was my own boneheadedness was you can't replace sounds on a "Real" Track.....didn't dawn on me until I realized they weren't midi tracks. I also have the Roland TTS-1 which I use initially because the sounds are pretty good and only use ST if I am looking for something specific.

Incidentally I work as an IT specialist so registering and installing products are things I have to deal with daily.
Posted By: GHinCH Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/17/15 09:18 AM
I didn't have any issues with getting SampleTank to work and authorized.
But then "I didn't think" and I don't deviate too much from the standard install.

The more you take scenic and adventurous routes to reach your destination point the later you will get there and you might just be in the middle of nowhere when you need Forrest Gump to comment your situation.
Posted By: Larry Kehl Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/17/15 03:48 PM
The SampleTank DXi (as installed BY IKM and PG BIAB), actually 100% of ALL DX's and DXI's are ALWAYS in a KNOWN location by the calling application (e.g., BIAB, Sonar, Reaper) becasue (unlike VST's/VSTi's) it is a Microsoft DX spec'ed item.

Therefore it is installed INTO the registry and has to follow certain Microsoft rules, the first is WHERE (.dll's, exe.s', etc.) ARE LOCATED.

Note, for Win 7 Sp1 all MFx soft synths (aka DXi's) are listed:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\MfxSoftSynths

Specifically, Sample Tank DXi at key {85D864F5-8660-473F-894F-FE33611C1CA7}

and its .dxi installed location is listed in:

HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Wow6432Node\CLSID\{85D864F5-8660-473F-894F-FE33611C1CA7}\InprocServer32

As a note to others if you have ALREADY installed ST2 from IK (free or full versions, BTW ST 3 has NO IMPACT AT ALL) and the DXi (not the VSti, the VSTi is immaterial) works in other application then when you install BIAB I would recommend you UNCHECK the option to install the IK SampleTank 2 DXi (again!)



Larry
Posted By: pedwards2932 Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/17/15 04:25 PM
Probably the best advice.....but what I wonder is when you select use a HiQ sound BIAB has specific ST files it uses and they are in the BIAB folder that is in the Instruments folder in ST. If you don't install the BIAB ST folder what happens when you select a HiQ sound? In my case when it couldn't find the BIAB folder I got error messages and the HiQ sound wouldn't load. Once I pointed BIAB to the BIAB folder then when I selected the load HiQ sound everything worked as it should.
Posted By: Larry Kehl Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/17/15 05:12 PM
The HI-Q instruments & samples (which are SampleTank formatted instruments and samples) are installed SEPARATELY from the SampelTank DXi application.

The HI-Q stuff even has separate INSTALLERS.


As long as the ST 2 DXi is properly installed, by either the BIAB install route or the IK MM install route, and it's working then, BIAB will know how to call up ST2 DXi. Then BIAB will "load" ("send over" to ST 2 DXi is probably a better way to say it) the selected HI-Q instrument (the .sti, .stip,and .sth files which are IK formatted files, that in-turn cause the actual sound [.STW or SAMPLEs to be loaded by SmapleTank)



The USUAL, annual, XMAS issue or SNAFU is that the actual sound files (.sti. stw. ...) are not found by the SampleTank application (aka DXi in this case) - until the path to ST sound list is refreshed. That is, the ST instrument library is updated using "Prefs" as you have already shown how to do a few posts back.

However, don't confuse where the ST SOUND libraries are installed (and where BIAB put it's ST HI-Q sounds) with where the ST 2 application (standalone, VSTi and DXi) is installed - by default the instrument libraries and the application(s) are separate things and installed in separate locations.

Larry
Posted By: pedwards2932 Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/17/15 07:01 PM
Mine for whatever reason installed the BIAB inside my original IK Multimedia folder in /Sampletank 2.5/Instruments/band in a box. I am guessing what BIAB installed was the SampleTank 2.5. I didn't have any input on where it was going to install as far as I remember. All I know is it works now.
Posted By: Larry Kehl Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/18/15 03:27 PM
Correct, to date, PG supplies ST 2.5 "stuff" - I'm lazy and easier to type ST 2 then ST2.5 grin

Glad it's working for ya! (and yes that is where BIAB installs the HI-Q ST 2.5 files I won't further confuse issue for anyone)

Good Luck
Larry
Posted By: jazzmammal Re: SampleTank DXi - 08/19/15 08:48 PM
Originally Posted By: JimFogle
Jazzmammal,In my opinion PG Music would have been better served by replacing VSC, a universal midi sound module, with it's successor the Roland TTS-1 which is also a universal midi sound module.


Jim, you're not paying attention buddy. First, the TTS-1 is not free and second it's not available by itself, it's only available with the purchase of a Cakewalk product such as Sonar or Music Creator. If you look on the homepage you'll see that PG sells MC for about the same price as the Forte DXi and the loss of the VSC is the reason they started doing that. It's just another affordable option for folks who don't want to spend $400 for a sound module or a large software library.

If PG wants to give away MC just so you can get the TTS-1 fine, but then I'm sure all that means is the cost of Biab goes up by that much. And don't forget MC is a Cakewalk product, you still have to create an account with them and register it so you'll be on their email list just like we're all on IKM's list.

There's no free lunch here. The only free anything was the VSC and the current Wavetable.

Bob
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