Hi all,

We've been getting lots of great feedback on our recently released "Crooner" big band horns. Would people like to see more in the same vein? If so, what grooves would you be most interested in seeing? Bossas? Ballads? Are there specific youtube/song examples that make you say "yeah, something like THIS would be great"?

thanks!

Tobin

Well Tobin, since you asked... I'm a big fan of the horn sound that The Band used in a lot of their tracks produced by John Simon. According to the Band's website "Simon ended up working with the Band in the basement of Big Pink and eventually was hired as the producer for their debut album. He was the one that brought horns into the Band's music. On their 1969 masterpiece "Music From Big Pink", Simon played a variety of keyboards and horns, in addition to co-producing the record together with the Band."

Their song "Ophelia" (mid-70's) comes to mind... Levon Helm continued with this horn section sound in his later years.

Levon Helm at The Ryman

It's a bit of the "DixieLand" thing, but more controlled and tonal - not sounding quite so much like a cat-fight!

>>>>>
The Band's studio cut of Ophelia perhaps is a better example of the horn sound I'm after (the Levon at the Ryman video does jump into a Dixieland thing pretty quickly...)

Ophelia_Studio Cut_The Band

Thanks!

Thanks very much Silverback!

I'd like to see some Nelson Riddle styles, ala Sinatra. Horns and strings together.


Regards,

Bob

I don't have any examples, but could always use more 3/4 and 6/8 country stuff.

Styles of Chicago, Blood Sweat and Tears, Brooklyn Bridge, Ides of March.

What Charlie said...

Add some "Earth, Wind, and Fire" and "Chase" in there and that would be awesome.

Ditto that. But, for more traditional classic big band:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L31pDORVifQ

Of course if you write an intro like this for Biab it's only good for one song but after the vocal comes in the phrasing is standard blues with the vocal and horns call and response. That would work for lots of stuff. Note the solo licks on the first verse and the horn licks on the second verse. And, all those great pianists you've been using could easily make an RT of those Basie piano licks.

Bob

In addition to just horns, could you develop a few styles that blend either horns or strings with a vocal harmony group, providing a smooth backing for a soloist? Or, maybe some styles that feature vocal group harmony alone, with a rhythm section. I’m not thinking of church choir singing, but something that sounds pop or jazz styling. I know it when I hear it---Manhattan Transfer, Singers Unlimited, The Blenders, The Carpenters, and others. Think of all the possibilities for vocal harmony----bebop lines, scat, ballad harmonies, doo-[*****], country, etc.. I don’t know if that’s possible within the BIAB format, but it sure would add another dimension to the BIAB arsenal. And, in addition to more “Crooner” horn styles----speaking for myself only-----I’d like to see more uptempo styles featuring a western swing flavor, with a touch of jazz styling. Some of the Asleep At The Wheel recordings come to mind, along with the recordings by the steel player, Buddy Emmons and his big band swing albums.

For me it would be the Sinatra, B,S,&T, Chicago, Earth wind and fire, etc. with a 120 to 165 tempo. It would be worth the update and price for those upgrades......

Add me to that good feedback after using a Crooner style ( _CROONR3.STY Crooner Big Band with Sticks) for the first time today for the tune "Please Be Kind" which Sinatra recorded with Count Basie. It created a very nice backing for a vocal and I will be able to freeze the version I like and then drop it into my arranging program using the new MusicXML files, instead of the old Midi files which did not have enough information.

What I would like to see is more Nelson Riddle, Basie style (Nestico etc) - Jazzy Big Band Styles that would suit Sinatra (although he said he was not a crooner), Nat Cole, Tony Bennett, Michael Bublé, Vic Damone, Perry Como, Bobby Darin, Matt Monro and Mel Tormé.

Also I would like separation of the sections - Trumpets, Trombones, Saxes and Strings.

Yes, Yes, Yes to the BS&T and Chicago style horn riffs in even 4/4 timing. They could be used in many pop and praise songs.

And then, after you get that all worked out for us, how about some lush Nelson Riddle style string section - the big, full, rich (but not busy) orchestra sound for ballads, both in swing and even styles...and waltz, too, for that matter.

+1 for that.

Vocal styles would be a freat addition.

Yes please, vocals would be very welcome

I am a great fan of arranger Gil Evans great ways to make horns sound different.

Brgds,
Tonnie

All of the above, RTs and MIDI.

I think all of these ideas are great. One place to hear more of The Band stuff is on their live album "Rock of Ages." I think those arrangements were by Allen Toussaint. They are so much fun to listen to and they don't take over the song the way some Dixieland arrangements do.

I just wanted to add to my enthusiastic comments about the new Crooner styles by saying that, since the tenor trombone is close to a male vocal in terms of range and expression, they make great backing tracks for rehearsing great melodies. This is the one I mentioned that I have now put into SoundCloud so that my mates on the Trombone Forum could get a listen:

https://soundcloud.com/grah-bonejazz/please-be-kind

I totally agree to all the above, but, do it have to be brass ? I mean, we have a lot of brass already, so why not more big string orchestra? It's also useful in many styles..
Just my two cents..;)

IMHO, Tower Of Power and Earth, Wind & Fire styles are a MUST, including accents, hits, and staccato lines.

What's not to like, uh?

BTW, the Crooner series are great! Keep up the good work!

In addition to all of the above, I would like to also have "filler styles" that are mostly silent when there is a melody but accentuate the chords when the melody is more or less silent like on held notes in the melody or during rests.

I love the Crooner series and would love more (who wouldn't?). I put My Way together in a couple of hours on Saturday night. I was just messing around putting it together for my live set, but it really shows how nice the crooner realtracks can be when mixed into a different jazz style. In this case the Style is _JGTGRMS.STY (Med-Slow Jazz w/ Groovin' Piano). Forgive the dodgy guitar solo at the start and the rather insipid vocals .....
Crooner real track comes in at 1:35 and 3:10.
https://soundcloud.com/salsatomebaby/my-way-1

RealTracks in style: ~768:Bass, Acoustic, Jazz Sw 110
RealTracks in style: ~771:Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm Jazz Sw 110
RealTracks in style: ~1101:Guitar, Electric, Rhythm JazzSwingGrooveComp Sw 110
RealTracks in style: 1152:Silence
RealDrums in style: JazzBrushes: a: Brushes Swirling b: Brushes Busier

Tenor Sax solo is 361

Thanks very much to everyone who shared their thoughts! We'll take everyone's comments into consideration.

Cheers,
Tobin

Thanks for the example. It illustrates what I meant. The Crooner RealTracks sometimes get real busy and try to fight your vocals -- when thy actually should be more quiet.

I know you put in a lot of time to get that result. But listen to it at 1:48 to 1:53. A band should support you not boost its own ego. ...

Thanks GHinch, I agree. They can be a bit full on. I think also there's a couple of places where the backing jars eg 3.44, perhaps it's the issue with 7ths? I follow what the more experienced users do and say which helps speed up the learning curve.

Tobin, I would also love to see some BB King type brass sections.

Ok, I'm sure this poor (brave?) PG Staff member already got way more than he wished for when creating this thread - so here's a bit more!

I second pretty much every suggestion already mentioned, but here's my specific "still missing" ideas in the "sections" department:

1. I'm still hoping for those exclusive Muted Trumpet RT's, both swing and even feel, fast & slow, soloists & groups/background.

2. Fast, aggressive trumpet/brass, for bebop & latin (i.e. swing & even, particularly the latter).

3. Waltz, especially EVEN feel waltz RT sets & sections (Accordion+violin blend would be a dream!)


Other of my ideas are more about individual instruments than sections, so I'll stop here - Congrats again for the wonderful Crooners