First, this is what I would like to do/have in Biab 2017 (with the newest patch installed):
Coyote Forte (which i paid, years ago) as the default synth, the new Sforzando for Hi-Q and the available Sample Tank for special instruments sound.
Unfortunately, it is impossible for me to load Forte as the default synth, although I already got help from Larry and others in a post about Sforzando.
I ran to my BiaB 2016 which I have on a separate disk, and there it works.
I HAVE Coyote Forte as the default synth.
OK, I have then copied all files which I think were in relation with the case
(Forte dxi.dk, VSTiplugins.init, etc...) but it stills does not work...
I see (to set up the default synth) some other VSTi which are in the 2016 file, but not the coyote Forte.
Question: does any body have/use Coyote Forte and experience the same problem?
Question: how to solve this?
Question: How do I include snapshots from my system in posts? I only see the possibility of inserting URLs and not images directly...
Bernard

See if this helps. Switch to Full screen mode.

No reason this should not be all doable. Granted I have only a bit of experience with 2017 (new to us all), but I did all this with prior verisons.



Start over- reinstall Forte and then open BIAB - this is a pretty simple setup.




Ya, you have to upload to the web and then copy the URL. Try free dropbox.com, works like a charm

You can have images on your desktop for my above statement.

De

I would re-install Forte, but make sure you right click on the installer and select "Run as Administrator". That will make sure everything that needs to be written to the registry gets written there.

Here are some photos of what I am trying to do (in vain).
1) This screen shows option/Midi when I open it in BiaB 2017
(note Forte apears under Synthethiser/Sound card)
2) This shows the default Synth in BiaB 2017 (none set)
3) This shows the choice of synths I have (BiaB 2017).
Trying in this screen Options/scan/new does not bring anything...
4)This is the sreen showing when I try to add Coyote Forte under VSTi or and VST.
5) This is what I have (copied frm BiaB 2016) under VSTi Plugins.
Bernard

Thanks Deddy, got it with the 5 files!....

Bernard -

Please don't construe this as shouting, but...

YOU CAN'T LOAD FORTE AS A VSTI!!!! IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.

It will either be in your list of existing synths or it won't. But you do not select the DLL, because it is a DXi (DirectX Instrument), not a VSTi. They are handled completely differently, even though they accomplish essentially the same thing. And once Forte is installed, DO NOT move any files to a different location. That will definitely keep it from working.

If Forte is properly installed, then it will appear in your drop down list (you may have to rescan the plugins to see it), but you don't use the "Load VST/VSTi" command at all.

Did you try to re-install Forte using "run as administrator"? Did you rescan your plugins (click the options button on the DXi/VSTi screen to access that feature)?

OK, OK, JFord, dont shout at me, I am experiencing my first nervous breakdown with BiaB!!!
I understand the argument about Forte not beeing a VSTi, but I just dont know what to do.
I HAVE re-installed Coyote Forte, this time extra as an administrator and it does not make any difference. What kills me is that everything is working perfectly under BiaB 2016. Of course I want to use the new version.
I have tried to copy a certain number of files from 2016 to 2017, but nothing changes...
What "confuses" me is that in BiaB 2016, Forte does apear under the VSTi
list as you can see in the photo.
I have now understood that Forte SHOULD be there as the default when I open BiaB, but it does not...
Bernard

1. where are you running BIAB 2017 FROM - external Hard drive or did you install it to your internal drive? IF running from external drive I think you need to do a minimum install? I don't run form external drive but others who do have had similar issues in past and there is an easy fix I just don't recall what it is


2. Did you set BIAB 2017 to run as administrator?

3. Have you found the "DXiPluginList.ini" file in your BIAB 2017 \BB directory? If so rename it,or delete it, and run BIAB again (as Admin) and re-scan for new DX's.

4. Find the file called "dxplugexclude.ini" open in text editor and ensure that Forte is NOT listed in that file - if so delete that ONE LINE from the that .ini file

EDIT

random thought - hail Mary pass: in your BIAB 2016 \bb directory find the "DXiPluginList.ini" and try to COPY that file to your BIAB 2017 \bb directory (which DOES HAVE all your DXi plug-ins correctly listed)

Thanks for the help, but i think I have done all that...
To your points:
1) BiaB (2017) is directly on my computer, as it was for all versions since 2007, no change here. I have only set 2016 on a hard drive to see where the differences are.
2) I run BiaB and RB as an administrator.
3) I have found DXiplugin (configuration file) and copied there what I found in the same file from 2016 (with forte).
4) Just the same, i have checked the dxplugexclude file, and it does not include Forte.
Random thought: I have copied the content of DXi plugin 2016 into 2017 and I dont get Forte as the default synth in the first place (that is when I open BiaB and Options/Midi settings) and scanning for a new synth under "default synth" does not bring anything...
Reason why I am a bit puzzled...
My only solution at the moment is to open BiaB 2016 and everything works properly...

This definitely seems to be a conundrum, especially with the fact that it runs with 2016 (which means it is installed properly).

Did you do a fresh install of BIAB2017, or did you install over the top of your 2016 version.

This is not required, but here's what I do with each new version of BIAB.

1. Backup the BIAB and RealBand folders (my RTs and RDs are in a different location, so I just add the new stuff to those folders). I usually just click on the BIAB folder (on my computer it's D:\Apps\PGMusic\BIAB) and hit copy, then paste in the same location. Once copied (it takes awhile because it's large), I then rename the resulting "BIAB - Copy" to "BIAB2016". Likewise for RealBand.

2. Install the new version on top of the original BIAB folder. The only thing I deselect is the PDF driver (and previously SampleTank, since I have the full version of SampleTank already installed).

3. Run the new program. It has always worked fine and all my synths and effects are already listed as they were in the previous version.

If you have no luck, then maybe one of us can initiate a remote access session to figure out what is going on.

I also just had a thought, which probably isn't it, but I wonder if the problem has to do with German versus English version. I know there have been a few problems associated with that (which get fixed when reported). I'm not sure of the process to (temporarily) set your system to English, but that may be something to try. One of our other international friends may have the commands to do that. Just trying to think out of the box to help.

time to get PG support directly in the loop

I would contact them (via live help or phone)

I use the english version from the begin on (2007) and load every year the new version directly on the previous one.
I have made a copy of my first message to PG support but did not get a confirmation they have received it...

If telephoning is impractical, you might want to try live chat and that way you get them directly.

Thanks for the advice, but I think a direct contact would be a bit long, specially if I have to report all the things i have already tried.
I have made a resume of what has been said in the post and sent it to support. See whether they can help...
Thanks again for your efforts to help.
Bernard

Live chat can lead to remote session support where the PG Techs can take a look at your machine to see why it may not be working properly. I've seen lots of folks post on the forum that it worked well. Seems worth a try.

OK, I ll give it a try tomorrow... (too late now in Germany!)
Bernard

And you should reference this thread when you do to save some explanation time.

Bernard,

Just a thought... I see in your set up that:

(a) MIDI out is set to UM-1G (#1 on the image below);

(b) MIDI setup and patch map is set for Coyote Forte (#2 below);

(c) There is no VSTi/DXi synth driver selected (#3 on the image below).





With the above in mind, try the following as an experiment...

1. Set #1 to Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth (this is sometimes necessary to get VSTi/DXi synths playing).

2. Leave #2 as it is.

3. In relation to #3 on the image above.... click on this drop-down menu button and see if Coyote Forte is available. If it is, select it and OK your way back to BIAB's chord sheet.

(If Coyote Forte is not available, just for the purposes of this experiment, try selecting Coyote WT and see if that works. Exit back to the chord sheet.)

4. Close and restart BIAB.

5. Load a MIDI style, generate it and let it play for a bit.

What happens now?

Regards,
Noel

OK, at first a big thank to all those who try to solve this "mistery", it helps to feel better!

Noel, I have now tried to change the settings according to your instructions, but no change. When I go to the default synth screen, the only possibility I have is Sforzando. Scaning then for new plugins just seem to reset my DXiplugin.init to 0 (meaning it erases the settings I had previously copied from BiaB 2016)(see Photo).

As I already explained before, I have now installed BiaB 2016 on an external drive and have, from begin on, without me setting anything, Forte coyote as the default synth. So I think the problem lies by BiaB 2017, maybe in relation with the new Sforzando...
Which file should I look for and try to change? What about the folder DX- settings with files like defaultDXIsynth.tgs?
Bernard

Latest news in Bernard against "Forte DXi" as default synth in BiaB 2017;

I did not have much time, up to now, to have a look at Real Band (2017). I have done this now and... surpriise! Forte IS there as default synth...
Trying to copy all files in relation with DXi from RB to BiaB fail.
It seems that, when I check "scan for new DX", under options, the program produces a new .tg file (DefaultDXiSynth.tgs, under the folder "DX Settings)and does not look for new Synths... Very strange!

You are, have, or tried contacting PG on this? (because this looking 99% like an actual tech issue .)


One last hail Mary (and it's just a hail Mary) - exit BIAB, then DELETE the " DefaultDXiSynth.tgs" in the "x:\ …\bb\DX settings"

Next time your start BIAB, BIAB will rebuild it using the " Factory_DefaultDXiSynth.tgs" and then update with what it sees


some comments:

1. It's a very unlikely Sforzando had anything to do with issues with BIAB and it's ability to see DXi's because SForzando is a VSTi (so it’s as related as apples and rifles)

2. By having Forte DXi show up in RealBand (and it is RB 2017 correct ? not Real 2016?)- PROVES you have Forte DXi installed correctly. There is no reason BIAB can't "see it" so there is nothing you can on that front (Forte DXi ain't broke so you can’t fix it).

3. You can quit copying the " DXiPluginList.ini " file into BIAB's \bb directory because that idea was a "let's try that just for for grins because it's a million to one long shot." Besides, every time you do a "scan" for new DX's, that scan updates that file with what it finds, which appears to always report ZERO Dxi's .

I have done that already, and it does not work. The program does not find a new dx by scaning and then the .tgs is replaced by a new one with nothing changed.
Yes, Forte is the default synth in RB 2017 (without me having done something special)
I have contacted the live help and they send me to support, which i will call now. I ll report afterwards.
Bernard

I have contacted support yesterday... Unfortunately, the needed senior engineer was on sick leave, so that we have to wait until he comes back.
Could be a bug, so they said...
Bernard

Well hope you can get it fixed soon, I KNOW it's frustrating especially if it is your ONLY GM synth



While you wait I can I make a suggestion and it’s all FREE and sounds pretty good (the GM soudns you end up with are very very good)

1. Read about it here

http://coolsoft.altervista.org/en/virtualmidisynth

2. Download CoolSoft Virtual MIDI Synth (IT IS A GM synth) here. GET version 1.17.1 DO NOT try version 2.00 - 2.00 is a BETA .

http://coolsoft.altervista.org/en/virtualmidisynth#download


3. If you have more than a few GB's of RAM than use the SGM-V2.10 sound font, listed further down the first page (it's the best GM sound font package I've ever tired, and I have tried all the free GM SF sets).

http://www.mediafire.com/file/zo8l3dgf2989266/SGM-V2.01.7z

You will need 7zip to unzip - if your favorite unzip utility doesn’t already unzip it

http://www.7-zip.org/

4. Next install Virtual MIDI synth during install it will

a. Ask if you want it as your DEFAULT MIDI Out Device I suggest NO (you can configure it in BIAB, or later if you like)

b. Asks (actually it tells you) to add a sound font to work (it won’t make any sounds if you don't install at least one sound font bank) but when you check that box and it just takes you back to Coolsoft site where sound fonts are listed - after downloading other fonts or not and you close your browser windows it will ask to to re-boot PC, just go ahead and re-boot.

c. After re-booting you should find a "CoolSoft VirtualMIDISynth" program folder in your Start Programs list.

d. Run "Configure Virtual midi synth" and add your now unzipped SGM-2.01.sf2 (where ever you unzipped it at) and I would not change or worry any of the other defaults right now.

PS this is a technical geek thing (and no you don’t need to worry about it ) so this is just info but the Virtual MIDISynth acts like a DEVICE, actually you can think of it as an EXTERNAL MIDI Device. That being the case it installs like a device and not like a "program" so it does not install to the C:\Programs Files. If you are looking for where it installs to (please DO NOT MOVE IT or muck around with it), "C:\Windows\SysWOW64\VirtualMIDISynth\.."


5. Open BIAB:

a. Remember "Virtual MIDISYNTH" is NOT a VSTi or DXi: so you can treat it, and think of it, as an external GM module. So within BIAB go to

Options -> MIDI/Audio Driver setup

UNCHECK "Use VSTi/DXi synth"

Under MIDI Output Driver select the " CoolSoft VirtualMIDI Synth"

Now exit that menu and the CoolSoft VirtualMIDISynth Mixer window will open (remember think of the Virtual synth as a piece of external hardware, so just like a piece of external gear you can set volume on each part as well as over all volume)

Now pick a BIAB song with MIDI parts or a whole GM song it should play just fine (and if the mixer gets lost under BIAB just "Crtl-Alt-M" will pop it back up

Good luck with above and with getting Forte working

Larry

Like Larry said, it acts like a MIDI out port, so just be aware that it is not a DXi or VSTi synth and that you can't render directly with it. To render to audio, you would have to "record" it, much like you would do with an external hardware synth.

That being said, I use it in several apps and it works just fine.

My favorite soundfont to use is the 31.9MB Reality soundfont. Not perfect, but pretty close to the sound from the TTS-1 DXi.

If interested, let me know and I can get it to you.

Yes another really good SF is the Reality one - BOTH are at least GM2 - so you have "extensions" of sounds beyond first 128.

Also I have to admit that the Reality SF is probably 3db+ louder for some reason - which is good.

Finally if you try to find & download it yourself realize its SFARK compressed, you WILL need sfArk utility to decompress to it's sf2 format.

So if unfamiliar let John supply direct (only way I have to get it to you is via email).

Larry

And in case anyone is interested, sfArk works in Windows 10 (even though it is a very old program).

OK, once again, thanks, larry and JFord for looking for solutions with me... I suppose you have already experienced this frustration when you cannot find a solution for a problem and try and try...
Anyway, I will try what you suggest with the other synth, need more time and have now to go to bed in Germany to be fit tomorrow for a new trying session.
Honestly, I dont think it will work... I already have a second synth available in my system, TTS1 from Cakewalk that some people use. It apears in my list of Plugins (BiaB 2016) together with Forte and does not apear either when scaning for new synth under BiaB 2017.
So I expect it will be the same with another synth. But we will see, I'll report tomorrow.
But not everything is bad in life (!), I have just downloaded patch 354 and miracle, the custom tabs are now staying when I re open BiaB, which was not the case up to now (That was the subject of an other post of mine). Thank the Lord!!!
Bernard

Go get some sleep and have faith that:

1 PG will get your DXi plugins problem sorted out for both Forte and TTS-1 and any other DX/DXi issues you have, and that

2. the solution I mentioned, and John seconded, is NOT a plugin solution - it is a completely different "thing" and approach. It is NOT a VSTi, it is NOT a DXi, it is a pseudo-hardware DEVICE as far as BIAB is concerned, like your sound card or external MIDI keyboards.


I'm 99.9% certain that no matter what other issues you are having with DXi's this will work - becasue ti is NOT a plugin.

GOOD LUCK!

Larry

I agree.

Aaaarrgh! does not work!!! (Bernard you are the "Looser" of the year!).
First let me tell you that your instructions for downloading and installing the Cool Synth are PERFECT and I could not do anything wrong...
- I have downloaded and installed Cool Synth (Vers 1.7)
- I have downloaded the SGM V2 sfonts (I went to another site to download the full file because the zip version would not download).
- I have installed the Cool synth and see it apear in my output synth list (yyeess!).
- I have chosen it (of course with virtual synth unchecked)and...
nothing! the interface does NOT apear and when playing a midi file no sound comes out.
- Back to my normal setting: I use the Ketron SD2 via the midi interface (midi to USB) UMG1: works!
- Back to the Cool Synth configurator (luck you gave me the path where to find it) checked that the font are checked ok, set the Cool Synth as default synth: still does not show any interface and does not give any sound.
OK nice try/next try!!!
Bernard (still happy anyway!)

What is your AUDIO setting ASIO or MME - whatever it is try the OTHER ONE

also did you REBOOT PC after Virtual synth INSTALL?

It was certainly on asio (I only use MME when I have an "asio error" coming up). I will try again with both settings...
Yes, I rebooted after the installation of Cool Synth, your instructions were clear!
Bernard

Unfortunately it does not work... After setting MME or Asio, choosing "Cool Synth" in the midi output and clicking ok just results in the screen closing and that's it.
Bernard

just verifying - nothing against you.

another just verifying:

IN BIAB do an Options - > "Return to Factory Settings" and use the ALL option

THEN exit BIAB

Next (remember I'm just verifying) run the "Configure VirtualMIDISynth" (its in your start menu items) and verify that the SGM .sf2 or the Reality sound font, if you have it from John or the Web, is LOADED

Then restart BIAB and re-do the steps from above (select Virtual MIDI synth as MIDI output, uncheck use VSTi, etc.)


ALMOST forgot the "interface disappearing" just use "Ctrl-Alt-M" to bring up the Coolsoft mixer

One other thing to look at (it should already be set like this but if not then set it like this)

Don't give up on Coyte Forte, it is simply the best 40 USD solution to getting good GM sounds from BIAB and it is not supposed to be this hard.

We are rooting for you Bernard

TRUE.
Bernard can see ForteDXi in Realband but not BIAB and worse the AUDIO of the CoolSoft virtual synth should work independent of missing DXi issue. He's got a setting that refuses to change (even if it visually says it did); or a corrupted .dll; or a corrupted configuration; or a privilege issue; or a combo of those.


Bernard

This is a simply a trouble shooting exercise - you can try it or not. This will take 15 or so minutes. First, relax and grab a drink (scotch, schnapps, a beer,.. - no not all together. BTW that's how I use to fix aircraft avionics over in WW Viet Nam, which probably explains a lot)

Before we (you) start here's what you are going to be doing: Rename exiting BIAB; reinstall JUST BIAB; see if still have issues with DXis and MIDI out to virtual audio; then revert it ALL back to way it was. And none of this will hurt anything

1. Rename your existing BIAB directory "x:\BB" directory to something like "X:\BB_2017_all"

2. Next you are going to reinstall just BIAB 2017 and just a PORTION of BIAB 2017 (again this will NOT hurt anything you already have and can be undone later very easily without affecting existing Real band, BIAB, or any other PG stuff.

You are going to reinstall using the downloaded

"bandinabox_realband_2017_full.exe"

HOWEVER when you get to the fifth Install screen, SHOWN BELOW, that's ALL you will select to install: JUST BIAB - NOTHING ELSE at all.


4. Now check if "ForteDXi Pluing" is listed in your Plug-ins window? Also see if all the Cool soft Virtual synth works or not (yes you will have to re-set it up like a few posts back)?

5. If it works now - GREAT, but we will have to go back to your existing install and find culprits.

If it STILL DOES NOT WORK, UNCLE! You need PG to work it remotely with you (unless someone here figures it out what obvious thing we forgot or broke)


In either case - we need to to get back to where you were:

a. DELETE the NEWLY created "X:\BB" directory

b. Go back and rename the "X:\BB_2017_all" back to "X:\BB" and you are where you started!


Larry

Eeeerr, I have now 2 problems:

- What is is my wife sees that I am drinking scotch? and
- Because of a "mistake" in first ordering BiaB 2017, I have 2 files,
one named "Bandinabox_realband_2017_pluspak/431MB and a second one
named "Bandinabox_realband_2017_mega/968MB (more than double..)
Which one would you like me to load? (I dont know where the big difference in size lies)

Bernard

shouldn't matter for this - unless whichever package you installed over 2016 has a corrupt file in it. Which one did you install over 2016 in the first place the Pro pak or Mega pak?


this page explains why Mega is bigger than Pro (it has more stuff)

http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.packages.htm

I'd try it with both, one at a time it won't take that long, and if one works and the other DOESN'T then maybe you had a download problem or one pak is "bad" on PG's side before you even downloaded it.


Just remember you are ONLY installing BASIC BIAB, period.

Larry,

you're the genius of the year! I have reisntalled BiaB as instructed in C/ (my normal installation is in D/ a special partition for music).
I have used the smaller file I had for BiaB2017 (431MB)... and...
I have there the Forte Coyote... and... the cool Synth disapeared when I cliked OK... But, ctrl/Alt/M brought it back!! Full house!

Actually, I had re-installed BiaB 2 days ago with the same file (431MB) but this time of course with the full program (checked boxes) and not only BiaB.
So the problem lies somewhere in the new files...
Bernard

OK

1. Is it the Mega pak giving you trouble? If so install it (again for grins) over you existing non-fully working BIAB to get all the "extra's"

2. Next install the Pro pak over that install to get the "good" executable's, or .dll's, or whatever was causing these issues. (it won't delete anything when you put smaller PRO over larger MEGA - you are safe there)

3. REPORT ISSUE to PG (after you re-download the Mega pak and try again. This will verify it's the file they put there for you and not a bad download, sometimes downloads do get "squirrely.")


But in any case, GLAD you got it figured out.

Larry

It's gona be a long story...
I have re-installed the bigger file, and then the smaller one and nothing is changed. I do not get the Forte shown as a possible default synth and option/scan for new synth does not bring anything either.

Buuut, at least the Cool Synth is working! Actually I do not think this has something to do with the re-installation. Choosing the Cool Synth and clicking ok results in the screen closing down without further news.
And since I am not fluent in "3 fingers" I have certainly made it wrong in the first place, when I tried it after installation yesterday..

Before I go to bed (Worshipers of Band in a Box are old folks and have to take care of their health), I will try to re.install BiaB without the Sforzando...
Bernard