Hi,
I'm a new forum member, but I've been using Band In A Box (on and off) since the very beginning.
The version I'm using at the moment is the 2008 version.

I am a songwriter,composer and musician (ie. a one man band). I have a home studio which includes a 16-track digital recorder, an 8-track digital recorder, various pianos,synths,guitars,mics and amplifiers.
I'm a professional independent artist who releases my original material on my own record label (CD's and downloads).

I mainly use Band In A Box to test out my compositions using the various styles that are available.
I find it useful to type in the chords to my songs and then sing or play along to the synthesised instruments as the arrangement is played back to me.
It works well as a starting point in developing ideas which I often use when I'm putting together the final track and recording myself playing all of the various instruments.
As I do not play drums (and don't have room for a drum kit in my studio anyway), I tend to build the drum tracks myself using various synths and a sequencer, but I sometimes use a RealDrum track from Band In A Box 2008 if it is suitable, but I've never felt the urge to use any of the Realtracks in my songs as they don't sound natural enough or good enough to me.

I recently saw the PG Music advertisement on Facebook for the 2017 version of Band In A Box, and I'm quite impressed with the quality of the Realtracks and RealDrums which are recordings of real musicians, and I'm thinking that I could even use some of them on my own recordings (especially instruments that I do not play, or play well).

The question is, which specific version best suits my needs ?

Initially I was under the impression that I probably only need the Pro version because it appears to use recordings of the same musicians playing the same instruments as the mega version does.
I'm also not really that interested in most of the other features of the software, which led me to believe that the Pro version is sufficient for my needs.
However, am I correct in thinking that the Mega version has better sounding Realtracks, or does it have a better choice of instruments that I can use in my songs, or is it mainly just more styles that you're paying for ?
I don't really need many styles or extra style packs as my genre is fairly limited to pop/rock ballads. I just need a way to produce my own good quality backing tracks.
I must admit that I'm a little confused.

I've also noticed that the 2017 pro version is available for download on eBay UK for around £75 and the 2017 Mega version for around £150 by a reputable seller with excellent feedback. This appears to be significantly cheaper than downloading it from the PG Music website.
Does anyone know of any serious disadvantages in buying it from a reputable eBay seller ?

Welcome to the Forums Andyman.

The quality doesn't change with the different paks (except for the audiophile version). The difference is the amount of material that is delivered with each pak.

The Pro Pak has 200+ Real Tracks
The MegaPak has 460+ Real Tracks

Check the differences between packages here

I cannot comment on other vendors besides PG Music. Others in your neighbourhood might be able to give a better idea.

Hi Andyman,

Megapak is definitely a good choice due to the additional equipment features among themselves RealTracks.
If you need RealTraks for a certain style of music, then you better buy the necessary set or RealPAK. All about RealTracks or never use and only those of the files take up disk space.

It is certainly appropriate to buy BIAB version 2017 and, if possible, from the official dealer from a list PG Music so you should be sure that the license key will register on the site PG Music for direct download of all the packages and patches.

UK: http://www.pgmusic.com/distributors.htm#greatbritain

"Musical Progressions" This company, which sells on Ebay UK, I not found between the official distributors.

Excellent questions.

Welcome Andyman.

As an artist who releases your own material.... I would suggest highly that you consider the Everything Pack.... I always tell people to buy as high up the food chain as they can afford.

If you are using this to arrange and compose your music, it's just a small step further to have Band in a Box and Real Band (BB & RB) take it to a full audio real track for a very professional and polished sound.

If you listen to the music on my music site and the music of some others here, you will not hear anything that even remotely sounds like a midi synth trying to sound like a guitar or a piano or anything else. I've had professional musicians who play fiddle ask me who was playing the fiddle on a given song because they knew I didn't play it and in the words of one studio owner who commented that he could "hear the rosin on the bow and the strings".

I used to build my drum tracks in the manner you described. All of that tedious work ended with the Real Drums in BB/RB.

Now days, I write my songs and get the details... structure, key, tempo, style, in BB. Once that's accomplished and I'm satisfied with the song, I save and close it in BB. I then open that same project in RB and let it populate the tracks with the real tracks (RT's) I select one of the RT's and highlight it. I then highlight the empty tracks below the default tracks and use those to generate new and different RT's. Normally, I write country but tend to use hard dock styles. So the default tracks are guitars, bass, drums, maybe a B3. I use the Generate Tracks function to get fiddle, steel, dobro, etc into the project.

Once that is done and I have between 8 to 12 tracks, I will export them to a DAW like Sonar for mixing and for adding my live guitar parts and vocals. Not all of the BB/RB tracks make it to the final version in Sonar. Guitars especially get deleted in favor of my live tracked guitars.

Have a listen to the songs on my music site to hear the result of this process.

Buying for E-Bay vs PG.... With PG you know you are getting the most recent version and, as a customer, you have them to call on for support. PG is also very good at getting you replacements and upgrades if you need them, as a registered customer. However, that decision is up to you. In addition, PG offers a 30 day MBG with no questions asked.

But I do stand by my advice to buy as far up the food chain as you can. The further up you go, the more real tracks and styles you get and in my humble opinion, the RT's are where the magic really happens with BB/RB.

You will be totally jawdropping amazed at how far they have come since 2008. Trust me on that.

Thanks for your helpful and informative reply, Guitarhacker.

It would definitely be a huge plus for me to have Real Band and add my own instrumentation to the Realtrack instruments imported from my saved BIAB projects, in the way that you do.

Like I said, I was immediately impressed with the quality of the Realtracks in BIAB 2017 compared to the midi synth type sounds in BIAB 2008, and I feel that I could certainly use some of them in my future song projects.

From the late 1980's, I began creating my own music using Steinberg's Pro 24 sequencer which ran on an Atari ST micro computer. By connecting it to a series of multi-timbral synths, it was possible to build quite good quality audio backing tracks which could then be recorded onto two tracks of an 8 track hi-speed cassette machine (ie.Portastudio). This would leave me with 6 tracks remaining for vocals, guitars and bass to be added.
Of course, when the first PC's became available, software sequencers improved dramatically and eventually it became possible to record vocal and guitar tracks to them, which made the Portastudio redundant.

Steinberg's Cubase was the successor to the Pro 24 sequencer, and it also included many more features to help musicians tweak and edit their projects. However, I must admit that I never really got to grips with it. I didn't have the time to go through the learning curve as I was too pre-occupied with performing in various rock bands and a semi-pro duo at the time.

Even when I purchased a digital 16-track recorder which included Cubase LE6, I couldn't be bothered learning how to use it, and I actually prefer to use Audacity, the free open source digital audio editor and recording computer software application for Windows.
As I no longer perform live (except occasionally as a solo artist), and I've recently retired from my day job, I now have the time to record and release my own music which is exactly what I have been doing since 2012.

Thanks for the link to your music, I've had a listen and your sound is very professional and impressive. I will obviously have to consider my purchase more carefully before deciding which version best suits my needs and budget.

If it's just BIAB and RealBand that I'll mainly be using, maybe I could save money by purchasing a slightly earlier version and importing the styles and saved files from my existing version into a more recent version, and using Realtracks to play them ?

As regards the purchase, wouldn't I be entitled to exactly the same help and back up whether I purchased it new from PG Music, Amazon, Thomann or eBay ?

http://andyshearer.bandcamp.com/

Hi Andyman,
I got the everything pak and I highly reccomend it.Im going to upgrade to Audiophile version because Im getting a new computer and want to make the very best sound I can .The difference in the two versions is explained by a post by Matt Finley somewhere on the forum very clearly.Also their is a great pay monthly option and I didnt have that horrible feeling in my pocket!
Thanks Guitarhacker great imformative post as usual.
I love PG music for making the impossible possible,the staff and forum contributers are so helpful and the cost for what your getting is well priced no matter what product you decide to get,
Check out the monthly payment option,
Yours Hugh

My post on this, such as it is, appears in the Tips and Tricks Forum.

Andy,

To clarify... are you looking at the Windows or Mac version? If you want Realband, that is only available with the Windows version.

Regards,
Noel

• my latest song : This Road

Thanks Hugh and Matt for pointing me to the article which explains the difference between the Audiofile and ordinary version of BIAB.

It's beginning to become clearer to me now.
For it to be worthwhile in using the Realtracks in my music, they would have to be of a comparable sound quality to the recordings of the real instrument recordings that I export to Audacity from my 16-track digital recording machine (ie. 16 bit Wav files of 44.1 Hz),therefore I would only really be interested in purchasing the Audiophile version.

I still do not quite fully understand the relationship between styles and Realtracks in each version, but as there appears to be only one Audiophile version (ie. the most expensive version), I guess that question is academic unless I decide to go ahead with the purchase.

As it currently stands, I think that I'll just continue using BIAB 2008 to help me compose and arrange my songs, and then play and record the parts myself on real instruments, except for the Realdrums which I'll continue to use in some of my more simpler and straightforward songs.

Whilst it still does appeal to me to add some extra instrumentation to my songs from BIAB, it's clearly going be considerably more costly than I first thought it might, and it seems that I would be paying for an awful lot of features that I'm never going to use.

Hopefully, PG Music will release a more affordable slimmed down package in future which caters more for my specific needs, but I do agree that the various versions of BIAB are no doubt worth every penny to those who utilise it's many excellent features.

It's the Windows version that I was looking at, Noel.

Hello Andyman and welcome to the forum.

Your questions indicate you are considering multiple upgrade paths but are unclear about the possible ramifications. Hopefully my response will help clarify your intentions.

Unlike the Band-in-a-Box program you've used for so many years, current editions (2014 and later) require a serial number. If you purchase hard product (CD, DVD, USB memory stick or hard drive) the serial number is provided on a sticker. If you use the file download option the serial number is provided by email. The serial number is requested during first run or every time the program is opened up to 30 days. After 30 days the program stops working. RealBand also requires a serial number. An unauthorized retailer may not be able to provide you with program serial numbers.

Band-in-a-Box is available for use on Mac (Apple) or PC (Windows) operating systems. RealBand is included at no additional cost with PC and is not available for use with Mac.

All packages include the same Band-in-a-Box and, when available, RealBand programs. While the programs don't change each package offers different content. Content includes styles, midi super tracks, loops, video tutorials and RealTracks. The ProPak offers the least content, Mega offers a little more, PlusPak is whatever content is new for this year, UltraPlus Pak includes all available audio content in lossy (compressed) audio files, Everything Pak includes all available audio and video content and the Audiophile Pak includes the same content as the Everything Pak plus all the audio is duplicated in 16 bit / 44Khz lossless (uncompressed) pcm files.

New versions of the Band-in-a-Box and RealBand programs are released once a year. Fixes and updates can be downloaded for free between version releases.

Key points are: the programs change once a year, the same programs are delivered in all packages and the reason each package has a different price is each package includes different content.

PG Music has sale prices for the packages when new program versions are released. You may want to consider getting the ProPak now and using it's limited content while learning how to use 2017 Band-in-a-Box and RealBand. Then, if it turns out you like the content better than you think upgrade to a higher content package during the new version sale. You can also purchase just the content sets you desire.

Thank you for your help and advice, Jim.

From reading Matt's Tips and Tricks article on the difference in sound quality between the Audiophile pack and the other packs, it has helped to clarify that it's the Audiophile version that would best suit my needs.

As I'm already familiar with BIAB 2008 and have used it regularly over the years, I wouldn't foresee many problems in adapting to using any of the later versions.

My typical usage of BIAB, is to type in the chords of one of my songs, and experiment with the many different styles, tempos, and key signatures.
Then if I find a style that I'm happy with that includes RealDrums, I export the Realdrums audio track to my 16-track digital recorder and proceed to record myself playing all of the other instrumental tracks (including vocals) on the other available channels.

I then import each track as a 16-bit, 44.1 Kz, to Audacity for individual sound processing and editing.
Finally, the song is mixed down to two channels and saved as a 16-bit WAV file.

In short, all I would really require from a more recent version of BIAB, is to use some of the other instruments (in addition to Drums)in my songs, and the higher the sound quality, the better.
Therefore it's the Audiophile version that appears to be the best version in order to deliver that requirement.

I'm quite happy with the number and variety of styles that I can choose from in BIAB 2008, so I'm pretty sure that I would be equally happy with what is included in more recent versions.

Unfortunately, I've decided that the benefits of using the Audiophile PAK to obtain what would be quite a limited amount of content for use in my projects, is not worth the cost of purchasing it in my particular case, despite the excellence of that content, but I can see how useful the package is to the many happy users on this forum who utilise it's many features.

After watching the BIAB 2017 demo ad on Facebook, I was so impressed with the sound that I was quite interested in buying the product, but after looking into it in more detail, it's about four times more expensive than I would be willing to pay.

I've not used RealBand as it's not included with BIAB 2008, but from looking at several video demonstrations on YouTube etc, I can see that it is obviously a very useful piece of software used in conjunction with BIAB and I'm sure that I would probably want to try it out if I bought BIAB 2017, but I would still then want to export each individual track to Audacity for further processing and editing,so it's not exactly an essential requirement for me.

It's great to see how PG Music has improved these products over the last few years, and it's a pity that I cannot simply buy an affordable upgrade to my existing 2008 version so that I can benefit from the excellent music quality and musicianship that is available in the later versions. That's what I was hoping I could do when I watched the demo, but I realise that a lot of work has gone into improving BIAB and buying the latest edition is money well spent for those who can afford it.

You might include a call to Sales to describe your needs and see if they have any suggestions.

If you upgrade the basic program to version 2017, you will still be able to use all your existing MIDI styles and whatever RealTracks you have from that first year of them, plus any that might be supplied with the basic program now. Then you can buy individual RealTracks to taste (although I think the audiophile version is all or nothing). The reverse is not true; the newer RealTracks would not work in the earlier version 2008.

I understand cost is a consideration. That is one reason I suggested ordering the least expensive package now. Did you know PG Music will divide the purchase cost into four payments spaced over four months at no additional cost? PG Music has a thirty day money back satisfaction guarantee.

Something else to also consider. Technology inside the programs has advanced and is a big reason why the 2017 demos sound so awesome. For example both Band-in-a-Box and RealBand use the latest version of élastique Pro as their native time stretching and pitch transposition engine.

Having version 2008 entitles you to upgrade to the 2017 Pro Pak for $79. That will include Realband.

If you are happy with the quality and sound of 2008 Real Drums - I'm positive you will be more than adequately satisfied with any standard compressed version of BIAB within your budget. Don't be misguided thinking there is a huge difference between the sound quality of audiophile and standard packages. You'll likely not be able to hear any difference.

When you render and export your BIAB tracks to Audacity, you can render files at 16-bit, 44.1 Kz and they will sound as good as the wav files from your 16 or 8 track sent to Audacity.

Charlie

Andyman mentioned: "I am a songwriter,composer and musician...
I'm a professional independent artist who releases my original material on my own record label (CD's and downloads). "

Perhaps for a person in his position, the Audiophile version might be a worthwhile consideration.

Perhaps. We don't know much about his equipment but what he's listed indicates what he has is similar to what most of us amateurs have plus the fact that he's only recording at 16 bit/44.1k and no mention of any higher rates. The BIAB rendered compressed tracks will provide him the exact same quality as he is recording.

Plus, he indicates he uses BIAB as a writing scratch pad rather than to provide studio grade, commercial release ready audio tracks. He does not need audiophile for that. He is simply delaying creative opportunities by vacillating over various BIAB packages.

Besides, if he purchases a standard package and finds BIAB to not be as limited with useful content for his projects as he presently believes the audiophile version to be, he only has to make a single phone call to upgrade.

Charlie

Yes, agreed.

With the information so far provided, I'm sure Andy will be able to make the decision based on his needs.
I also only mentioned Audiophile, because he himself has indicated an interest in it, not once, but several times.

I see a lot of 'me' in Andy. I'm the world's worst thinking that better equipment, expensive gear is the only thing between me and producing pro studio quality songs from my kitchen table. Just thought I'd share some of my personal experience with Andy to save him some time, money and frustration.

Charlie

I'm guessing that price is important if he's asking about the various (lower cost) versions and from reading posts in this thread it seems that might be a factor.

Audiophile is the most expensive version. I would never tell anyone who wants audiophile not to buy it. Get what you want and need. I don't really hear much of a difference in the songs from those who have vs those who don't have, the audiophile vs the normal everything version.

You can produce professional quality sounding work with either.

Many thanks to you guys for reading through my fairly wordy posts and for doing your best to try and help me come to the right decision over which version of BIAB to purchase. I really appreciate it.

Unfortunately, I'm still considering which version to go for, or whether just to stick with what I already have. It's not so much the cost that is the issue, but weighing up whether my expected use of the product is going to justify the cost.

Just to clarify a few things. I currently have BIAB 2008 Ultra and it is absolutely fine for testing different styles for my songs. There are 1733 to choose from.
However, only the Realdrums (and maybe the odd bass or pad sound) are ever really of good enough quality to use in my recordings.
This is not really a problem for me though, because I play guitars, bass, and keyboards, and I have quite a rich collection of instruments in which to make my music with.

The fact that I'm new to the forum should be an indication that I was not previously interested or even aware of the huge strides that PG Music have made in developing their software since 2008, and it was only by chance that I saw their video ad for BIAB 2017 on Facebook.
Like many of you guys, I was stunned to hear real musicians playing in so many different styles in the latest version, and it sparked me into finding out more.
It got me thinking that I could maybe use an occasional extra instrument to enhance and expand my sound.
What I'm not interested in is flooding my recordings with amazing instrumental solos from BIAB and then my music ends up sounding like one of the BIAB demos (as impressive as they are).

I currently record my music, one track at a time, onto a Zoom R16 digital studio which is capable of linear PCM recordings (WAV type) at 16/24-bit and 44.1-kHz sampling rate.
These are transferred to Audacity on my Windows PC where I do my editing, sound processing and final mixing. The final track can then be saved as a 16 or 32 bit wav, mp3 or Flac.

In conclusion, I believe that in order to make it worthwhile me upgrading to BIAB 2017, I would ideally like to have as wide a choice of musical styles as possible to choose from (as I have now), which means that I would probably be looking at the UltraPlus PAK.
Paying more for the Everything PAK is unnecessary because I don't need the video tutorials or the Midi songs and lessons, and on reflection, I probably don't need the Audiophile version after all.

I can't comment on Realband other than to say that it looks impressive in the demos and I would be interested in trying it out. However, there are many other features of BIAB that I'm not interested in using, but I do appreciate why there can't be such a thing as a tailor-made version.

Great Andy

It looks like you have some direction.

One thing for sure is that you'll be amazed at the RealTracks.