I'm a new user to DAW and looking for the best DAW for BIAB.
Can you share your opinion ?
Thanks
Vincente

Hi, the simple answer: there is no "BEST".
Its depends what you are used to (i'm a Cubase User since Atari Time, so for me it is Cubase). It also depends on the money you want to spend and the time. If you have not enough time then there is no sense in a high end tool. Maybe you start with real band and after a while you will see what your needs are. Then ask again and maybe there are some specific useful hints.

Many users here use Reaper. It has an excellent support base, and is a very powerful DAW, with what I understand is an attractive price tag. It's probably worth considering. Some Reaper users will chip in, I'm sure.

I think you can use any. The key is putting in the time to learn it.

Most people will recommend the one they know best because if you learn one there is rarely a good reason to use another. An exception would be for pros involved in studio work. I’m familiar with a few because of that. I have strong reactions, positive and negative, to each new DAW I see because some fit my idea of how they should work, and others really do not, making work more difficult. Luckily you can try demos of many to get a feel for how it ‘seems’ to you.

Simple question deserves a simple answer.

Reaper.

+1Reaper

What the best DAW is, is not a simple question at all.

The question here was, what is the best DAW for use with BIAB. I still like the first answer, “it depends”. And learning RealBand first would be very helpful.

However, even though I found Reaper to be among the more difficult to work with, I would support Reaper as the better answer for the first standalone DAW simply because we know there is an active user base here on this forum. One user even made a recent video describing the workflow between the two programs. So the guidance will be there.

I also like Reaper for their ongoing changes and communication with users. And the price is right.

If you're new to DAWs then you might want to begin by reading +++ the Wikipedia DAW article HERE +++ . The article explains what features are common and how hardware or software DAWs differ from each other. The article has many links for all of the most common free and for pay DAWs for Windows, Apple and Linux computers.

If you have the Windows version of Band-in-a-Box then you already have RealBand which is a PG Music DAW included with the purchase. RealBand is useful because RealBand can import Band-in-a-Box MGU and SGU files and it adds some much requested additional capabilities not available in Band-in-a-Box.

Some people don't use a DAW because Band-in-a-Box is all they need. When extra help is needed, they can use a free audio editor like +++ Audacity +++.

One problem with an audio editor is it can not work with midi. DAWs can manipulate both audio and midi data. One full featured DAW available for the cost of your email address is +++ Cakewalk by Bandlab (CbB) +++ This software is built on Sonar which is a DAW with a thirty year history. BandLab itself is an interesting music collaboration platform and social network.

All of the modern DAWs have similar feature sets and will work equally well with BIAB.

So it comes down to price (if that is important to you), and workflow; how intuitive is it to work with.

The good thing is that most DAWs available, if not all, have fully functional demos, so download a few of the demos and spend a few hours learning how they operate.

I did just that a few years ago and settled on Reaper, for me it just “made sense” as far as workflow went. You may like a different one better, so it makes sense to invest a week or two and take them out for a test drive.

I like Matt's answer best. The best one to use with BIAB is RealBand. That's the simple answer to the question asked.

Real Band amplifies and extends the power of BIAB as well as functions as a DAW for the major purposes of a DAW. It IS a DAW. And if you have it already, then it's free.

Besides that, there is a formal subforum in this forum for questions and comments about RB.

IF I can get my midi issues sorted out, Reaper will get my 60 dollars. But the learning curve is rather steep for me (and I have at least some acquaintance with DAWs). If you are new, and just getting into BIAB and DAWs, then RB is your obvious choice. I am guessing you've got quite enough on your plate just getting the hang of these great tools. I wouldn't jump to another DAW right off the bat when what you have may have more capabilities than you can currently use. I don't know.

Use the DAW you have. You won't need another one until you do. If you do now, then do what others have said and test-drive a few within your budget. I hope Reaper works out for me, because I've already spent more than I intended to. Another 60 dollars won't kill me, but my wife might hire someone to do it.

Hi Vincente,

As a number of people have indicated, my view is that there is no 'best DAW'. From what I understand, most DAWs are very capable and very powerful these days. When I listen to the songs on Users Showcase here in the PG Music forums, it's easy to hear that the many DAWs used all turn out great results.

Whatever DAW one decides to settle on, the key is to thoroughly learn those bits of the software that you need for what you want to create.


I'm a Reaper user. Below are the reasons I like Reaper...

1. Audio and MIDI tracks can be dragged from BIAB to Reaper.

2. It's easy to set up plugins and softsynths in Reaper.

3. Time-stretching is a valuable tool for me and Reaper has time-stretch markers that make stretching/shrinking audio very easy.

4. Full audio clips can also be time-stretched easily.

5. Automaton control in Reaper is vast and every control on whatever effect is used on a Reaper track can be easily automated. The main envelopes I use are (a) volume, (b) pre-FX volume, (c) reverb, (d) mute.

6. Reaper offers a number of envelope-related shapes that are great for (a) assisting with de-essing (or taming harsh sounds in general -- like J, G, K, etc.), (b) compiling snippets of audio into a single track, (c) fading in and out in general.

7. I've recently discovered spectral editing (from a user on these forums) and this is a very powerful, frequency-based editing tool.

8. 'Snap to grid' is something that I use a great deal and access to its settings and on/off switch is fast and easy in Reaper.

9. The tutorial library created by Reaper master Kenny Gioia is very, very extensive. Kenny's videos are also easy to follow and very instructive. In addition, there are many Youtube videos created by many different users on how to do things.

If you want to checkout Kenny's video collection, have a look at....

www.kennymania.com/reaper-videos/


Realband (available with the Windows version of BIAB) is also an important song-creating tool for me. While I assemble my final product in Reaper, the fact that Realband offers all the functionality of BIAB but in a DAW-like environment is useful. If I used the Mac version of BIAB and didn't have Realband, though, BIAB and Reaper would still do exactly what I need.

Regards,
Noel

Hi all

Yes almost any Daw that you are willing to learn.
Having said that I would not go for specialist programs like Ableton Live 8 and its successors as they are aimed more at live DJ clubbing work, and calling up sound loops. Triggered from a controller keyboard or special control suface.. Normal midi handling is not typical and you may well struggle using with BIAB
Just my thoughts
Mike

I agree with most posts here - it is down to how you like the workflow (which is very different from daw to daw).

I'll mention FL Studio here, because they have one big advantage, which is that you only pay once and then you have a lifelong licence for the program (with all updates, etc.). I payed about 149$ in 2001, I think.

Still I am also using other daws, like Cubase, Maschine and Ableton, but that is mainly because they have different interesting plug-ins that I wouldn't get otherwise - or sometimes because they simply fits better with my midi-keyboards or my Yamaha-synths.

Please, you should take the advice from many people here and try out the "lite"-versions or the demos before you settle on one daw - because the one that feels intuitive to you will probably be the right one.

Will

Hi Mike,

I'm sorry, but I (partly) disagree with you about Ableton Live. It can be a an amazing tool for composing if you are in doubt about how to build your song - like where should the different parts (verses, bridge, chorus, solos) be and in what order, because you can easily audition the different possibilities in Ableton by using the exact same tools as DJ's would use in a live situation.
I found a lot of inspiration by moving parts of a composition around to see what new sonic/inspiring things would happen. That's quicker to do in Ableton than in BiaB.

I hope I make sense (not sure about that).

Will

Wow! Thank you all for your inputs about my question: "Best DAW". What I meant was easy to use and cost.

Vincente, about cost you got the answer. RealBand is free because you have the Windows version of BiaB, but ease to use... more difficult to answer as I have not yet used it.

Stand alone digital multi track recorders such as the Zoom R8,R16,R24, L12, L24; Tascam DP-008,DP03 and DP-24,Dp-32 or the new D-24 all have proprietary DAW built in. The learning curve is better than any software DAW. The units are rock solid, some also double as an Audio Interface, will vary from two to 24 inputs and regardless of the actual channel count, can produce dozens of tracks. They are mobile, make great field recorders, have actual faders and knobs and normally the menu's do not go very deep. They all work flawlessly with BIAB tracks.

They can easily transfer audio files to and from a computer DAW and very seldom malfunction or crash.

Cost can be less than $100 used to just over $100 new to thousands depending on what you buy.

They operate as simply as turning it on, plugging in Mic's and line level inputs such as keys, electric guitars, etc, opening a song, select tracks, hit record and you're off. No drivers, sound cards, finicky plug-ins or wacky OS's.

You can learn a unit inside/out in a day...

They're not as fancy or popular as DAW's but at the end of the day, you can record, edit and publish a song from start to finish literally in the box --- The real box....

I use Studio One Pro 4. I can drag a BiaB song directly into it.

But, as previously stated, there is no best DAW. Asking a question like this is like asking what is the best vehicle to buy. It depends on your needs. Also you will get the Chevy, Ford, etc lovers and haters pitching their vehicle as the best and knocking all the others. YMMV

If Easy To Use and Cost are the key performance indicators, then RealBand should definitely be somewhere at the top of the list for you.

When you say a BIAB song, you mean a •.sgu /•.mgu file?

I'm thinking Mario is dragging an MP3, MIDI or WAV file from Biab into the DAW. But let's get a clarification.

Depends on your price bracket and what you are doing. I have had Sonar for years, it is now free but you don’t get the goodies. Sonar is great for MIDI editing but I am used to it. These days for the final mix etc I use Reaper (US$60). With Reaper there are heaps of plugins, many many videos to teach you how to use it. For manipulating audio files it is the best I have used. Very easy to setup projects and insert the wav files I export from BIAB. I tend to export a song into its own folder using export wav then simply drag and drop into Reaper. Could not be easier.

Yep Reaper +1

Tony

One of the nice things about Reaper is that you can evaluate it as long as you like, without paying for it.

Having said that, as pointed out above, it is very cheap, and has a tonne of features.

It also has a very small 'footprint' in terms of the space it takes on your computer.

Another possibility - but only if you have a Mac - is GarageBand. This comes free with every Mac and is a really fun DAW to use. Limited in some ways, but if you are new to the world of DAWs, I think it is a perfect DAW to 'learn' on. It has a lot of loops (unlike Reaper).

Good luck with this.

The O/P's signature states:
_________________________
WIN10 OS build 1803, 8MB, 500GB SSD.
BIAB2018, build 516, UltraPaK

I suspect they are not using Mac.

Yes. I am using the DAW Mode drag and drop in BiaB to load MIDI, RDs and RTs into Studio One. This is the same practice you use in most DAWs is it not? Realband off course is the only DAW that you can load BiaB native files.

Again, thank you all for your inputs. I'm really appreciated.
Most of you refer the REAPER DAW for your work flow/cost with Biab. I'll take your inputs and will give it a try
Thanks
Vincente

Absolutely. We're all working from the same page here . BiaB native files are only supported by RealBand, but MIDI and Audio drag-and-drop are supported by most DAW's.

Trust me, you can't go wrong with Reaper. There is of course a learning curve. But the Reaper Forum along with this forum can be a very good and friendly help for newbees.



Including Reaper.

Thank you

Hi Vincente, and Charlie.

I agree with Charlie in most of what he said above.

In fact, I (stupidly) worry about what workflow I should standardize for myself, sometimes thinking that I should stick to using a computer (DAW) for all of my workflow, or whether I should use my Zoom R16 for tracking, and then transfer the tracks to Reaper.

When I finally get BIAB, the question will be - "Should I do everything I can in BIAB, and then transfer the files to Reaper for final tracking and editing, or should I copy some of the BIAB files to my Zoom R16, track there, and then take all of that to Reaper?"

The reason that I struggle with this is that I find it really enjoyable to have the physical controls (such as faders) on the Zoom.

Here are some things that one might want to bear in mind about the Zoom R16 and R24
1. The R16 does not have any sort of drum track

2. The R24's 'drum machine' is terrible - really awkward to use

3. Both the R16 and R24 can be used in three ways: as a stand-alone recorder; as an audio interface; and as a control surface (to provide physical mixing controls - faders! - when connecting with a computer DAW)

4. In practice, the preamps in the R16 (and, I presume in the R24) sometimes provide barely enough gain to get a good signal when using the R16 as an audio interface

Yes, Yes a 100x Yes. Or, "... well that's the way I do it".

One thing you should quickly learn about Reaper, which has not been mentioned and was not one of your criteria, but Reaper is "rock solid". Meaning it does not freeze of fail. Once you start working in Reaper you will learn how wonderful that is.

good luck.

If you want hardware faders you can probably use the Zoom 16 to control the mixer in Reaper. Then you have the best of both worlds.

I know this will make folks mad BUT if your new to DAW use buy Power Tracks Pro. It's 29 dollars and has 100s of features you'll know about howevr that's better than Reaper,etc. that'll have 1000s of features you know nothing about.
PT will keep the waters less muddy and works perfectly as an add on to BIAB.
JohnnyD

Maybe worth a look .... Tracktion 7 ... it's free these days they say. F

This is a good suggestion, to keep things simple when first learning about a DAW.

RealBand, provided free bundled with the Windows version of BIAB, is basically Power Tracks Pro minus a feature or two (forgot which).

While each his own I could not disagree with this more. Ableton is a great tool for full Music production and has some great work flows for working with tracks, both audio and MIDI, exported from BIAB. The slicing and rearranging of clips in session view gives great flexibility and a rather quick work flow when working multiple passes of tracks generated by BIAB. Then moving these over to arrangement view to do final mix it works just like any other DAW.

This does not even mention the built in audio to MIDI functionality that works pretty well.

One DAW not mentioned up to this point is +++ MultiTrack Studio +++. It is advertised as .

The program's claim to fame is the program has a built-in midi sound module and the sound module sounds REALLY good. All the sounds are modeled, not samples, so the program does not take up much storage space. Of course the program can also use VSTi and external midi instruments.

We're old school Matt. LOL
I approach a DAW like a tape machine on lots of steroids.

Hi Dan,
Thanks for this.

Actually, Reaper might not freeze in the traditional sense of the word when applied to DAWs, but there is one conflict/problem that has stymied users over different versions and has meant that some people have had to reinstall Reaper.

I wish that I could remember what that was, but it was a couple of years ago I last read about it, and my memory is no longer that good.

But overall, yes, it is rock solid.

Hi John,
Even though I have only been on the PGmusic forums for less than a week, I have learned enough about the people here to say that I would be very surprised if anyone here would get mad about your recommendation of Power Tracks Pro.

I think that your rationale for suggesting that to Vincente is a wonderful one, and I agree completely that Reaper (and some other DAWs) are so complicated at first that it could put someone off.

I am grateful for the other suggestions, too.

I used SONAR for decades. When we thought they were gone, I tested all the demos I could find and switched to Mixcraft.

In my last huge purchase on a computer to do audio recording (in 2007), I went Mac, and I have to say that I really, really liked the simplicity of workflow in GarageBand - more than Logic, actually.

That was a great 'starter' DAW.

Am going to look at Mixcraft now, if it is still around.

Wow, so much great advice here.

I'm just gonna add that I think Matt Finley said it best earlier in the thread "Most people will recommend the one they know best because if you learn one there is rarely a good reason to use another."

The most important thing, IMO, is to pick one based on what you read here and stick with it.

Each DAW will have its own way of accomplishing things and its own learning curve.

That said, as someone else in this thread very wisely pointed out, since it appears that the DAW of choice in these forums seems to be Reaper, go with that to the extent that you may be soliciting advice from forum members throughout your musical journey.

+1 for learning RealBand and seeing if it meets your needs. If not, start shopping for something that has features you need. I grew up with Cakewalk from the DOS days. You can now use it free at www.bandlab.com , but it pretty much expects you to be connected to the Internet. https://cakewalk.bandlab.com/

I should confess I don't use RealBand, but like PhillyJazz I had long since learned Cakewalk Pro Audio (which became SONAR, which recently became BandLab). I'm wrongly following my own advice by not learning this particular "new" one when I already knew another quite well. Many users here make a great case to learn RealBand for the special abilities it has, most notably regenerating sections of a track.

If I were starting out, I certainly would have learned RealBand first. Then moved to a standalone DAW.

Standalone DAWs are like foreign languages. They all do the almost the same things; they just go about it differently. The more of them you learn, the easier it gets as you see the similarities. Often it's a case of learning the terminology (what one DAW calls this, another calls that).

I agree that RB is a good place to start if you are a BB user. In addition, you can generate additional RT's for the same instrument so you can make composite tracks. I also like the interface for RB.

Once you get used to the DAW concept (I am just getting comfortable), I would think about Reaper. I have been watching the videos about Reaper lately and it seems to do things that RB can't. I am going to bring my next BB project into Reaper to see how it goes.

As far as your wife killing you for spending the money, you might want to put it in perspective for her. You could be a big game hunter, a car enthusiast or spend your dough on boating and fishing gear. Recording is a lot cheaper.

2b

And if you go the Cakewalk by BandLab (formerly Sonar Platinum), which is free and very full featured, you can view both the older Sonar Platinum tutorials, as well as Cakewalk by BandLab tutorials, as not a lot has changed.

Here are a few YouTube links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f5zJZGlT6g

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCPMyFyv8V07CnKoVWraOOGsjw06jzBI1

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB82E55314B11E41C

You can also access a fair amount of Cakewalk content at Groove3 (however, that is not free).

Thanks, John. I didn't know that. I will take a look.

Hi PhillyJazz,
Thanks for the Bandlab link.

Even though it has loops for various genres, it seems to be aimed at the Electronic Dance Music crowd in terms of the sonic quality of the instruments and so on. For "sonic" read "MIDI".

Still, it is somewhat interesting.

Very, very different from Sonar.

So what's the catch there .... ?

Okay, don't get confused here folks. Yes, BandLab is an online platform for creating (as indicated, loop based EDM music), but that's not what we're talking about here. When Cakewalk went out of business, Bandlab bought their software resources and are now marketing what was previously Cakewalk Sonar Platinum as Cakewalk by Bandlab. This is a full featured DAW that has been in use by many musicians for many, many years, capable of creating all types of music.

So, by downloading the Bandlab installer, in addition to using your account to access the online Bandlab software and loops, you also use it to install and keep updated the new Cakewalk DAW on your computer. The only difference between Sonar Platinum and the new Cakewalk by Bandlab is they don't have all the additional add-ons (because those agreements were originally made between Cakewalk and the 3rd party vendors, which wasn't included in the transfer of Cakewalks intellectual property).

Thanks John for the detailed explanation. That certainly clarifies the position. We are talking about two separate products, essentially.

I have not tried using it offline, but I had not used it for a while, and when I fired it up, it demanded I log into my bandcamp account and update my status. I don't know what would have happened had I been offline.

Yes.. I merely brought up Bandlab as the means of obtaining Cakewalk. I do not know that there is another (legal) way to install the bits locally, as Sonor is not "abandonware."

I deleted Bandlab installer after I got cakewalk and it still runs fine.

Cakewalk by BandLab is not (or at least was not) run from the BandLab site. From BandLab one downloads the installer and runs it. Then you let the installer download and install Cakewalk by BandLab and whatever extras they now have (eg the Melodyne demo). Once installed the download tool just sits there, a download tool will be required for updates etc.

If you have a present install of Sonar, Cakewalk by BandLab will pick up all the goodies you may have loaded. It will also pick it any VSTs (assuming you have the correct paths set in preferences). As said many times Cakewalk by BandLab is basically Sonar Platinum without all the add ons. In reality it is the add ons that really cost.

My two bobs worth

Tony

Hi John,
Thanks for this. That is what I thought was the case, but when I created the Bandlab account earlier today and played around with the interface and website, I saw no mention of Cakewalk, even though I was looking for it.

There was a download link, but it in no way gave any clue that the product you could download was any different from the very different-from-Sonar product online.

I will try again.

https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk#! ?? F

Charlie,

Interesting post about hardware DAWs. How do you transfer files from BB to the machine?

2b

A DAW is not necessarily a dedicated machine. Usually it is implemented in software. You can import MIDI or audio files. With RealBand, you can open BIAB format files directly.

Went back into the link that had been posted, and found the link and download info. for Cakewalk.

All that stuff was not obvious, I must admit, and the Cakewalk link was nowhere to be found in the version of the site you get when you just go to the regular Bandlab page.

Made me wonder a little about how organized the programme itself is.

Downloaded Cakewalk, but it would not open, so had to uninstall and reinstall.

Now it works - sort of. For some reason, it wants to play back at 48000, and will not let me get to 44100.

We will see what happens.

Ok. Open up your preferences. Press The letter p (P) once you have Sonar open. Or go to Edit - Preferences. Then under Audio set your audio device, then under that is Default Sampling Rate which you can set to what you want. Also ensure your sound card is set the same.

When you export audio you are once again asked what rates and bit levels you require.

Hope this helps

Tony