I downloaded the Roland Sound Canvas VA demo yesterday, no problems installing it and selecting it as a VSTi in BIAB, but there's no sound when a midi track is generated, I can see the green meter moving as though it's playing, it does however work perfectly in Sonar Home Studio, so it seems to be a BIAB problem, has anyone else tried it.

Cheers,
Keith

you have got to select the plug in for each instrument over at the mixer top right corner, did you try that.

Shouldn't have to do that if VA is selected as the Default Synth.

Hi
I don’t know the beast but, if the meters are moving then it is receiving midi so the problem must lie with where the audio is being sent.
Vsi have to tell the host programme how many outputs it has so that host can redirect them to its sound out.
You may find a setting in the plug in to set the output .
Also it may be worth temp switching to mme drivers in case it’s a problem with multiple instances of asio or was.
Sorry I cant be more specific,
Mike

Just down loaded it and I get no sound as well. I think you do have to select individual tracks for instruments and midi channels, I see the bar moving on the track in the roland but no sound ?.

I am sure a few forum members had this working in biab, the quest goes on !.

hi again

You may find this info useful re compatibility.

https://www.roland.com/global/products/sound_canvas_va/

Mike

Thanks Mike it does mention sonar pro but not biab, although I never expected it too.. just positive some forum members tried trial and had it workng in biab.

Thanks for trying, at least it's not me then, switching to MME, ASIO or WAS doesn't make any difference, and I have tried adding the plugin for each instrument at the mixer.

Pity it doesn't work, I bet this would be excellent with BIAB midi, I would love to hear from any members that have managed to get this working within BIAB.

According to the documentation that I found

https://www.roland.com/global/products/sound_canvas_va/

and the documentation that Mike found

https://www.rolandcloud.com/catalog/legendary/sound-canvas-va

you have to load a sound map to make this GM compatible.

Mario

Thanks for your input what is a ..sound map to make this GM compatible.

Another vst or...?. Anyone.

You mean like an ini. file or pat. file.

When this was first released a couple years ago some here messed with it and they found it doesn't work with a whole lot of apps but when it does work it sounds pretty good. This is also a problem:

No plugin bridge will enable to run 32bit SOUND Canvas VA on 64bit OS/DAW environment.

Overall, while it will work with some things it's really not very useful starting with if you're on Win 10, forget it. As far as using a GM synth and what to do if your not using a GM synth, there's a very good tutorial on that in the Help files.

Bob

Bob

Thanks for your input, your right I will stick with sample tank.

You always look at things as they are, as I have seen in past postings.

Again thanks.

Hi Guys,

The 32-bit version of the Sound Canvas VA has never made sound in Band-in-a-Box for some reason, but the 64-bit version works like a charm, as long as you have JBridge. It's the only plugin I've ever encountered with this issue.

If you've already added the 32-bit version to Band-in-a-Box, you can clear it out by deleting "VSTiPluginList.ini" from the BB\Preferences folder. This gets rid of your list of VST instruments, allowing you to add the 64-bit version of SC VA.

Thanks
Kent
PG Music

I had forgotten that point, I had to find the original thread about this from 2016. You had said then that the 64 bit version of the SCVA will work with Jbridge. And yes, even though the SCVA is ALREADY 64 bit for some reason it still needs Jbridge.

Their website still says it's $125 so the question is is it worth it? In my case I got the full SampleTank 3 during their promo last year by buying a keyboard controller for $79. Without having owned the SC8850 I can't compare the two but the SCVA has a native GM bank while ST3 does not.

One thing for sure though I'm positive this sounds much better than the old VSC, the Forte Dxi or the Coyote Wavetable. The SC8850 was a high end unit. Even though it came out in 1999, they're apparently still worth $200-250.

What do you think Kent? It's been two years since your post in that old thread.

Edit - Damn, I just listened to this vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSEoQpuOieQ

It's got scat voices! There are several requests in the Real Tracks forum about that. I may get this just for that if I can confirm the VA version also has them.

Bob

Hi Bob,

Right, the 32-bit version would be recognized natively by Band-in-a-Box since BIAB is 32-bit, but makes no sound.

The 64-bit version needs JBridge to be recognized by Band-in-a-Box, but then it actually works.

Now that the TTS-1 is no longer available in 32-bit (JBridge doesn't allow the 64-bit version to work because it's a DXi), I'd say the SCVA is going to be the best currently available GM-compatible soft-synth for use with BIAB, but might sound a bit dated compared to modern sample libraries, since the sounds are all from 20-year-old sound modules. Those sample libraries don't support GM though, and I'd say the SCVA would sound good enough for most users, especially compared to the Coyote WT.

According to Roland's site, it has the SC-8820, SC-88 Pro, SC-88, and SC-55 sounds, not SC-8850 (not sure how different the 8820 and 8850 are), but this video does have the scat sounds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C7oCmF4XU8

Cheers
Kent
PG Music

I had every hardware version of the SC Roland made. In their day, they were SOOO "realistic." Funny how our ears evolve over the years.

Kent -

I think it would be awesome if PGMusic could work a deal of some sort with BandLab to obtain the right to bundle the 32-bit TTS-1 with BIAB/RealBand/PTPA. They should have the code; they've just chosen not to support 32-bit anymore.

Very cool Kent. That vid isolates the scats very well. They're not as good as the ones in my Kurzweil PC3 Take 6 voices but still not bad at all.

Another question, it looks like this is similar to most keyboards in that not all 1600 patches are GM, correct? It has a dedicated GM bank and we would use a pat file to access the higher banks?

Bob

Actually, Bob, I think the SCVA uses the GS standard (a superset of the GM standard). Because it rests on GM, GS will play GM files.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/GM-GS-XG-what-are-they-m400202.aspx

Big +1.

Great suggestion.

I have an SC-8850 and when the VA first came out, besides the issues of the 32/64 bit thing and a few others nits that Roland should FIX (they won't) - there is no sound difference. Playing the same .mid files and A/B'ed in real time there is no difference. So as a GM module it's great - but price is way too high - and since I already have that "GM plus" set in the SC-8850 no need to buy it again at that price just tot have convince of not reaching over and turning on the SC-8850.

I noted all this in a earlier review when it came out - it's here somewhere if you search for it.


BTW the VA only contains the SC8820 sounds (which include all those older sets) NOT the SC-58850 which is the Big brother of the 8820. Besides having more "higher bank" sounds and a front panel interface and a few more stereo samples - there is no real sound difference between the 8820 and 8850.

Larry

Here's another vid I found doing a direct comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPHmj577png

You are totally correct, they sound virtually identical and this vid even shows more voices. These are the choir oohh's and ahh's and sound pretty good. There are requests for those RT's too.

I would suspect that ST3 has better overall instrument sounds but since this VA is completely GS and Biab will go into GS mode...

Ah man, what's another $125 between friends eh?

Bob

Just a final thought on this.

If anyone really, really wanted the Roland GM/GS sounds contained in SW SC VA (aka the 88 pro, 8820, 8850'ish sounds) go to eBay, Reverb, Craigs list, yard sales, or pawn shops and find a SC-8820 for about the same price $125 or LESS! or get an easier to use SC-8850 (it was a front panel for sound selection and programming) for about $100 more (and if lucky close to $125) - you might just want that front panel convenience. Or a newer Roland SD-50 module it at least has an organic Win 7 driver so it might work under Win 10 as well if not than like Fantom XR it is probably easily hackable for Win 10 use. I don't want to get into the Ketron GM versus Roland GM discussion - different sounds of mostly same things but built for different users and purposes.


MIDI hardware will NOT be subject to any 32/64-bit issues, GUI issues, and other SW quirks - and as long as you have a 5 PIN MIDI I/O of any kind (yes USB on PC side to 5 pin MIDI I/O is fine) you are ready to "rock."

Truth be told there is one hardware "quirk" - that nagging need for 5-pin MIDI under Win 10 or even Win 7 (unless you are a geek who has hacked your way to a working serial (RS-232) or USB interfaces). There hasn't been a Roland USB driver for these since Windows 98 nor a serial driver since Windows XP (a little hacking I got serial to work in Win 7 - I'm still working on one for Win 10).

Also if you look around you can still find the GS Advanced Editor 4 (and it does work under Win 10) for these units .


Larry

I have two Ketrons... The SD1000 and the SD4. The SD4 has some horrendous issues with BIAB as per the last ROM update, and support from Ketron is nearly non-existent. That being said, they all have GREAT acoustic sounds (especially saxophones.)

It CAN be tricky to record with an external sound module with BIAB. I have played with various USB/analog mixers for years to get the Ketron sounds mixed with RealTracks to render audio.

The SD4 is great for live performances, especially because you can layer 4 voices into chords.

The SD1000 is USB, whereas the SD4 is old school MIDI connectors.

As I started this thread I'd like to thank everyone, especially Kent for their input.

The 64bit version does work perfectly using jBridge, there is however one little problem in that it only shows Part 1 in the part list when looking at the Sound Canvas within BB,yet when I tried the 32bit demo everything was visible, but no sound of course. Also if you fiddle to much with it it can cause BB to freeze, so patch changes etc are best done from the main mixer window.

Anyway despite the price I went ahead and bought it, and I have to say I love BIAB Midi again!

Cheers,
Keith

Hi Bob,

I haven't used the VSC VA since 2016, but it was definitely GS, and I'm pretty sure it had multiple GS banks, since it had the entire sound library of multiple Sound Canvas modules.

Thanks
Kent
PG Music

Had the chance to hear this sound canvas, v 1,1,3. Must say i've heard far better; sounds really cheapo compared to other oldies like Hypersonic 2, and Halion Sonic SE seems to me still one of the good ones. F

Correct Frank but we're talking about GM/GS mode here. That means Biab will simply work with it automatically with no fiddling with setting up the instruments manually.

ST3 sounds awesome too but I don't use it with Biab, it's for a DAW after I've created a basic arrangement in Biab using a GM synth.

Bob