Hi,

Am I correct in my assumption that BIAB 2016 can create brand new real tracks from my guitar playing. This is specifically what I mean. I record a 12 bar blues in the key of C (three chords) to create this new real track such that it can later be used in any jazz standard tune (any chords). I could then create another brand new real track with a different guitar (acoustic guitar) exactly the same way such that I can apply it to the same jazz standards and hear the difference between these real tracks. In short it somehow samples the sounds (not sure how this would work with the rhythm part of what I played). If this is possible I think I can find videos on it.

Thanks,
John

Yes, This is entirely possible!

See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a813VaOUNZM

Editing to add additional link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RSYeaT3H6A

Thanks DeaconBlues09, I watched both videos. Cool. It is on my to-do list to master doing this :-)

Is it possible a drummer could do something similar with his drums such as play congas and use that track to enhance his drumming during a jam session. I am thinking if this is possible this might get more drummers out to my jam sessions if they send me some of their user tracks to put into the backing tracks I feed out to the PA system we use at the jams. I just need to present the idea in simple terms to them at the start so they get excited about it (hopefully).

John

Specifically, if you record yourself or someone playing a live part for general use as a custom RealTrack, it's called a User Track and the second video DeaconBlues09 posted correctly details the process. You must use templates and PGMusic provides several and since you say you are creating parts for jazz, PGMusic provides a template for creating a Jazz user track. You can use any instrument to create User Tracks but you must be able to record at an accurate tempo for them to work best.

Thanks Charlie, I am in a video watching process now and this instant watching the jazz user track creation video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVHIpdxhVTU

As I learn I am asking myself if I can make them even better by enhancing the bass chords beyond what BIAB supplies. For example I see that there are no Minor with major 7 chords and 7th chords with +5. I watched a real simple video below which implies I can create my own this way for more complex chords.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzUTfZU9RyA


So I got my answer at this video at exactly 11:27. I can add more complex chords for BIAB to draw from (or Realband to draw from).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVHIpdxhVTU
So I guess all the videos mention this.



And again I am looking for a video that shows how a drummer could create their own click tracks to send to me so I can use that during a jam session. The idea is they might be more receptive to using a click track if they know they made it themselves with all the embellishments they like or whatever. At this point I am thinking the drummer could use the same process of just recording their bongos or congas over these chords and naming the user track appropriately and it will insert their playing against these chords as if it was a guitar. How well does this idea work? Has anyone tried it? Might it be necessary to play the drums against all chord types so that BIAB does not try to change key on the drums making it sound kind of weird.

John

<<< I am looking for a video that shows how a drummer could create their own click tracks to send to me so I can use that during a jam session. >>>

Here is my take on what you're attempting to do from my experience in recording in recording studios. This is directed toward your drummer but is relevant and works for any audio and instrument, including vocals, prior to an actual recording session be it a jam session, demo or commercial release project.

Having your drummer record their bongos or congas over the Chord Chart and naming the user track appropriately and insert their track against these chords is a great idea. The technique will work with any instrument, piano, guitar, vocals, keys, brass, banjo, mandolin - really anything you record that may be considered to include in your project.

Pre recording tracks is very common and extremely useful, especially if a group of musicians are having to pay for studio time. It saves time and money. These are called scratch tracks and are intended as placements in project until a part can be seriously and properly overdubbed in. It is not uncommon for a scratch track instrument to ultimately be replaced with an different instrument. An example is you want to hear a guitar part in your project but your session guitarist is not available. You use what you have at the moment. For instance, use a guitarist that is not as proficient as the intended session play but can play simple fills and solo for placement into the guitar slot until the proper piece can be recorded. Another example is again, your guitarist is unavailable so the keys player records a scratch guitar part using a guitar midi patch until the track can be properly recorded. Sometimes a part initially intended as a scratch track ends up included in a project or a guitar may be replaced with another instrument during a project. A great example you may be familiar with is the saxophone riff in Gerry Rafferty's "Baker Street" was originally written and arranged to be an electric guitar.

A click track can be a simple metronome and is specific to the tempo, meaning it will work on any song played at the tempo the click is recorded to. A drum scratch track may be a simplified arrangement to work as a metronome so other session players can practice or record their parts until the drummer actually records the intended arrangement.

Thanks Charlie, Interesting examples.

I have not found any videos intended directly for drummers or percussionists. I might eventually try simulating a percussionists recording a user track exactly the way a guitarist would. I say "eventually" because I watched this video twice and tried it twice but it does not count in correctly and it aborts (exact same problem each time). I sent two sets of files to PgMusic support to see if they can figure out why. They have not got back to me yet. I am very interested in this feature so I am going to try it a 3rd time after a factory reset without touching anything to see if it does the same thing. Everyone else says it works so it should work. I am running an external hard drive but that should not matter.

John

Sorry I didn't read through all the posts but look here for UserTracks, UserTrackDrums and RealDrums creation
https://www.realband.org/tutorials.html

Thanks Pipeline. I also found this with a google search.
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=390425
I am going to wait until PGmusic support gets back to me about my user tracks attempt bombing. About the only think I can try at this point is doing it on the notebook computer to see if there is any difference.

Ah I remember that one now, I have posted so many howtos I can't remember them all.
If you have problems with UserTracks you can try ReaTrak it works with Biab by importing chords, regions, tracks and the BBVST works with it.

Thanks Pipeline. I might check into it later. Been working on this all day with no success. Just tried it on the notebook and the recording is 1 beat out of sync (new different problem) so I am going to take a break from it and distract myself with other to-dos.

That's the same problem I got a few days ago trying a 3/4 usertrack and yes spent all day on it.

Did you find a solution?

In my situation the bars are highlighting in proper time in the chord sheet window. At one time they were not highlighting properly (a 1 beat delay) and I fixed it with a factory reset after Noel suggested that. I do not think that will fix this 1 bar delay in the recording since I do a factory reset before every jam I run just in case and the last reset was about 3 weeks ago. I started doing a factory reset before every jam because BIAB was locking up during the count in on the notebook after a week of practicing all the songs for the jam. It was getting tired of hearing those songs over and over...lol. I don't blame it. So was I...lol.

So it's 1 beat delay when recording ? that would just be delay with the audio device I would imagine ?
What are you recording them in ? are you using ASIO ?

I really need to brush up on this topic. Thanks for pointing me in the correct direction Pipeline.
I did a google search "ASIO".
Next I did a google search "What is BIAB ASIO" and found this BIAB Audio driver setup tutorial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0_CHbjWrLA
So now I know more :-)

I am using MME on both machines. The desktop is a solid state drive while the notebook is a regular spin drive. Both are I5 machines. The Desktop audio latency is 104. The notebook audio latency is 488. Maybe that explains it :-)
I am using BIAB 2016. So I guess I need to do some google searches on how to update from MME to ASIO :-) Still watching the video. Not sure if I can just switch it in the drop down mentioned in the video. I am also thinking that maybe in the future I should get a notebook with a solid state drive since delays during jams are not good. However so far it is not an issue with regular playback. All recording is done from the mixing board directly to an external dedicated USB drive and later brought into RealBand for mixing on the desktop. You know the mixer Pipeline. You can see it at this facebook link in a few of the pictures.

This issue distracted me from the aborts problem and determining if the "user track" aborts are occurring on the notebook to. Two to-dos for today :-)

Hey John,

It's actually a lot, lot, simpler than you would think based on this as applied to drums/percussion.

For that, all you would need to do is import audio of said drums and save the selection as a "user loop" in BiaB. When you select the loop, set to "non-transpose" in the loop selection dialogue to avoid weird transitions and artifacts.

Thanks DeaconBlues, now this I have to check out. I will get at it later today some time. I will post how I am doing. I have other stuff to do but I can't pull myself away from this new BIAB stuff I am learning :-) John

OH Yeah now I remember you put me on to the UFX1604 and I bought 2 of them !

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=405047

Wow, I like the case you have for it :-) I am just real careful. If I damage it the pavement will be all wet.

I was thinking about the roughly 1 beat delay on my notebook when recording a user track. I can't remember if it was Rharv or Charlie who posted how to fix that with RealBand. I will see if I can find the post. I seem to remember watching a video on how to do that. Hopefully PgMusic support can figure out what is causing my aborts on the desktop. I just tried the user track I created on the desktop and it aborts the same way if I copy it to the notebook and run it there.

You can just shift the audio tracks after to line up.

Yes rharv was good enough to send a link to a video he created. This is the link he sent.
http://www.masteringmatters.com/stuff/ACW_Tempo_Map_creation.avi
I think he posted some info in an earlier thread too. Maybe I can find that.

In an attempt to figure out how to create a brand new drum loop with a .wav file I recorded a bunch of tapping on a desk to simulate drumming. I recorded it in .wav format. I recorded it at speed 100 BPM. In reality a drummer friend who has been playing 50 years would create the .wav file with a micrphone using real drums, congas or bongos and he would send that .wav file to me. He would not want to play along with another drummer's loop.

I tried a bunch of things in BIAB and had no luck.


I might have found the solution in RealBand. I attached a picture of the part I found in the real band manual. I will get back to it and see if this is what I am looking for.

I was able to create a test percussion loop in RealBand and use it in BIAB. Here is the detailed info.

RealBand:
Note: there is help in the real band manual PDF. Just press ctrl+f to search for Acid Loop.
Create the loop in RealBand on a separate track. Play it against an existing BIAB file which has been imported into RealBand.
Record your click track on a separate track the normal way.
You need to highlight the loop from the end of the count in where the music starts and highlight at least 4 beats (it depends on what you want to do).
In the popup (that appears after you choose the directory and name) the speed must match what you recorded it at.
You set the time signature to the proper time signature you recorded it at.
Leave "One Shot" unchecked. I assume this is because you want to allow tempo stretch in BIAB.

BIAB:
Bring up any song at a reasonably close speed (maybe within 50 BPM).
Choose the track where you want to insert it.
Find the loop in BB\RealTracks\Metronome (or whatever). You can search by name to find it.
I chose to trigger the WAV every 4 bars (you can do whatever you want).
Make sure that "stretch tempo" is checked.
The tempo should be the original tempo (at least that worked for me)..
#beats to stretch can be 55 or whatever. If you apply it to a song much slower you may find it is not that accurate.
Uncheck "transpose" because it will be a drum loop or percussion loop. Your guitar click track is either (a "real track" or a "user track" you created yourself) rather than a loop.
Click regenerate and play so it picks up the new loop and plays it. Clicking play alone will not pick it up.

I cut the size of this post down and created a video instead. I created a new post so people are aware of it.

You can click this link to see the Youtube video I created on how to use RealBand to create a full chorus user loop (acid loop) of your playing to be used for your BIAB songs when BIAB can't generate tracks that cut it. It can be used for any instrument. The video is actually for members of my jam group but others can benefit from it too so figured I would post the link here. Besides the members of this forum are great and I figured I should give back. It took me 6 days to figure this out partly because of a bug in BIAB so it could be helpful for some people if they happen to land on this post. I ironically the bug in BIAB might have helped me since I don't think it is capable of creating an acid loop.