Repeated lockups - messages of corrupted files - can't save. How are you guys getting anything done in BAIB64 2019??

To be honest, because of the droning (stuck) MIDI note problem, I've given up on it until this is fixed. Bummer.

OK, that is it for the BIAB64, ya it works but it is buggy as hell and I can't get anything done in it. So I am going to try the BIAB32 and see how it goes.

Switched to BIAB2019 32 bit and was able to wrap up a small simple project for a forum member in 45 minutes - sweet. No lockup out of the gate for me here.

Ive only ever used the 32 that came as standard until now.Over the weekend I set up 64.Im not using the midi side just RTs and so far I cant see what the difference is.Maybe thats why.
Wendy

Now that I've settled down with the 32-bit version it is just like every other upgrade...program still quirky (but in predictable ways) and a bunch of awesome new RealTracks and styles! I'm done wasting time on the 64-bit version and unfinished VST.

With that said...a HUGE THANK YOU to folks like Pipeline and RobH and others who continue to alpha test the VST and share its problems with PGM! If it ever gets fixed it will be in part due to your diligence and we will all benefit!

I can't speak for everyone but for me the VST and 64 bit EXE are not stable enough to consider using. If I released software in that state to any of my clients there would be no chance of them signing off on it for me to get paid, unless I was being paid in increments and an early beta release was one of the scheduled milestones.

Dan,

I haven't had any of these problems.

I know that you've probably done this, but just in case it slipped through the cracks... Have you set BBW64.EXE or the start-up shortcut to "Run as administrator"? When I read "can't save", that is usually a sign of this setting's absence.

Regards,
Noel

Yes. Thanks for asking.

But look close at the error message, in this post
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=515427#Post515427

it is trying to save a 2Meg file of only midi data? That is nonsense. Here is what I concluded - BIAB has never handled VSTs well in the past and it does not at the current time. Do some work, yes, but none work well.

I guess I forgot this for a short time caught up in all this 64bit hoopla. So I just need to return to my prior workflows to get the job done regarding midi sounds. I know we all want to do more in the box, but the reality is it will not replace other tools which are out of the box.

If you are having issues with 2019 you can try running 2018-520 until 2019 is working better
look in C:\bb\Data\Backup\bb2018_backup and list it by date modified
copy and rename the latest one it should be 520 and paste into C:\bb
bbw 2018 520.exe and run.
You should get all the new RTs RDs

That's Pipeline, that is good to know.

This tread has a unique title so I should be able to find it easily if it comes to that.

That is cute, mind if I steal that phrase?

If you are having issues with 2019, you are SOL if you did like I did and upgraded to the same directory that my more or less bulletproof copy of 2017 resided in.

I find even 2019's 32-bit version to be buggier than I want to put up with and I'm kicking myself now for having installed 2019 into the same directory as 2017. And no, I don't feel like reinstalling 2017, so I'll just put up with it and hope PGM works through the bugs fairly quickly.

My two cents.

Over the years, I've noticed that the forum is full of posts about bugs when a new version of BB comes out. It takes a few months for that to settle down. In spite of that, many people rush to buy as soon as the software is available.

So two thoughts come to mind:

1) The software isn't that expensive at full price considering what it does once it gets working properly. So was the discount worth all the trouble you are having?

2) Jford, Noel, the Fogles, Matt and a few others seem to have fewer problems with new versions. I think they know some things most of us don't and that shows in the solutions they give the rest of us. And many thanks for that.

Perhaps it would help the rest of us to study their computer specs and how they set up their files. Do they have a dedicated machine that does not get Windows Updates? Do they turn their wifi off and use a different machine for other tasks such as e-mail? Why are they so successful? Or maybe they just read the instructions more completely I don't know what it is, but there is a difference between these folks and the rest of us. I would like to know what it is so I can adopt their practices.

my 2 cents worth too

Most people have a multi purpose machine it searches the net, read emails, plays games and does music. That is always going to stretch the limits of what each can do. I use a laptop and yes it has to do more than audio. the best my system ever worked was when I had a dedicated desktop that was music only no other activities. This lappy was music only but my old desktop ate the buckwheat so.

Anyway later this year a new smoking music lappy will be mine and this old dawg will be for everything else.

Well, for me the Price if worth a little Patience .... said the Pauper to the Prince.
Knowing PG the lot will run smoothly after some updates, and boy, they seem quick on the draw this year ...

Good questions. I can't promise this is true but my impression is that the others you mention have a similar situation as mine, in that I do not take any special actions for BIAB. My music production computer is on the Internet, has WiFi near it, and does everything else including email and other non-music programs. True, I used to have my main computer dedicated to music, but that was more than a decade ago. One thing that may be different is that I have built all my own computers since the early 1980s.

We do know some things about BIAB you don't, that much is correct. The names you mentioned are volunteer beta testers. We had a chance to run the program before it was released Dec. 1. We also get to test updates before they are released (generally a day or two later). As far as reading manuals, I think that's probably accurate but I've been in the computer field since 1977 (as a comp. sci. professor) and I tend to wing it first, then read the manual. Others I suspect are more orderly than I am, but that's good to have a mixture of learning styles doing the testing. Overall, I don't think we have fewer problems than anyone else. In fact, we intentionally try to discover them so they can be fixed: we try to break stuff.

BIAB 2019 introduced two new features that were definitely out of the ordinary, changing to 64-bit and adding a VST Plugin function. I think this resulted in more problems than usual. However, the program is getting pretty stable by now, and the VST is closing in on meeting people's needs. It's an exciting time to be running these programs. For anyone who doesn't like this kind of excitement, then I agree with the poster above who advises waiting a bit. The sales prices are still in effect for another week. Someone purchasing now, six weeks after release, would admittedly have a better experience than those who purchased Dec. 1. But don't forget, many have been using BIAB without any problems.

I hope this helps a little.

I'd like to think that I'd never admit, that any computer program was killing me, but I do feel your pain...
Currently 2019 64bit is doing what I need it to do for me, and I'm happy...

I'm still having issues with the 32bit version on my laptop, but the 64bit vers is pretty stable, and both versions are rock solid on the Studio machine...

btw: the only reason I still need the 32bit program is for the ability to export individual generated Audio Harmony parts to my DAW...

I agree with Matt's assessment. I do read the manual pretty often (and less so use the help file). I suspect because of the length of time I've used the program, I know the PGMusic lingo and as such, know what to search for.

My computer is multi-purpose, as well (I've got three computers - see my sig line).

That's not to say there were not problems. I'm one of the first to notice that 64-bit BIAB started distorting when you deviated even slightly from the suggested tempo (even though not everyone had the problem), and worked long, hard, and persistently with both PGMusic and other users until PGMusic figured out the problem had to do with how the computer performed floating point math in calculating time and pitch shifts for RealTracks, and then fixed it. That was a real potential show stopper, but we stuck with it until it worked correctly. It just took patience to get through it.

Before I retired, I use to do IT tech support at a University... 37,000 plus students.

I always liked figuring things out.

So, though this year was a bit buggier than most, I really don't mind. Folks at PG Music are great!

...Deb

Thanks to all for taking the time to respond. Seems like this stuff will get done.

To Music Student, I have been where you are. I think all of us have. But in the end, we all agree that nothing does what BB does. So try to hang in.

2b

I get so little time with my music. So when I do sit down I want things to work. Here comes another weekend and when I sit down .... problems.

Now I have to ask... Does the BIAB VSTi work with MIDI?? I just tried to put a couple midi super tracks into Reaper via the BIAB VSTi and all the midi tracks were rendered to audio??

Sorry, but there are a lot (and I mean, A LOT) of reproducible bugs in BIAB, some of them are being addressed by PG Music, some of them have been around for years. Sure that many issues reported here are due to user error, but many others exists no matter if you're using a dedicated machine, turning your Wifi OFF or how well you read the user manual.

Yes for some reason all MIDI is saved as audio. I have to remember to clear that folder every time I try the VSTi, which isn't much as I have had problems with it so I just use BiaB.

If you use the master to move from the VSTi to your DAW you will get audio. You have to move each track individually to get MIDI to your DAW, a real PITA for us MIDI users IMHO.

But Peter has indicated that they will work on getting the VSTi to work like other VSTis. That is select a sound source in your DAW and have the VSTi address it. When that happens I will be a happy camper. Until then I will continue to use BiaB drag and drop as I always have.

Thanks Mario, I was hoping you would chime in as I knew you were on top of this. However.... even when I move only the midi track it only brings rendered audio. Maybe this is new with all the changes. But for me there is no MIDI in the BIAB VSTi. Or if there is, I can't find it. So does that make this a user error?



When?




You and me both.

Dan, how are you trying to move MIDI? I just did an other experiment with the latest updated VSTi and I could move MIDI, SuperMidi, and the MIDI from the RTs that have MIDI successfully to my DAW, Studio One Pro 4. I just dragged the little square by the track name to my DAW.

One major problem that I did encounter was when I dragged some MIDI to my DAW then decided to add another track via the VSTi, which was still open. It locked my system so tight that even Ctrl-Alt-Del wouldn't work. Thus power off power on and then it took a long time for the system to come up. So the only way to add to an already generated song is to open another instance of the VSTi.

{edit} - FYI - I am not on top of the VSTi usage. I will be using my old drag-n-drop BiaB method for my songs. But I can see where using the VSTi to add tracks to other old method generated tracks may be useful. I'll have to mess with that later.

Sometimes guys I think we whine so much about little things. That we lose sight of the bigger ones. Just a few years ago if you wanted a home studio, you had to record and bounce tracks on a tape reel, and you really had to either play all the instruments or have someNow you can open a program and the darned thing will generate 5 tracks of beautiful wave file in under 5 minutes, 1 minute if you use the main program. These can be used, mixed diced and sliced to your personal taste. I include myself in this as well.

So you have to drag the midi track over individually how long does that take? Like 1 minute.

I also see a lot of conversation about the fact the plugin doesn’t do what the main program does. I do not believe PGM ever meant for it to have every feature the main program does that would be a seriously heavy VSTi.

I can see why some want rewire so the DAW can play in sync with BiaB. I’ll have to mull that over as to the need. It still seems better to me to drag your tracks and process them in the DAW.

All in all I think the plugin is a success after a few patches 90% of the issues are now solved. It works flawlessly in my DAW. Still a few issues to work out but it is very useful.

Don’t take this wrong I’m not chastising anyone just pointing out the facts. Funny thing is that in the 2 decades I have been messing with music software, participating in the forums at Cakewalk, PG, Multitrackstudios, N Track, and more. I have seen a pattern, something new comes out and immediately no one is happy cause it does meet their personal expectations. That’s not to say many of the issues are not real, just that we all want it to do something different and that makes it hard. I would hate to run a software company and try to make everyone happy that buys the product.

Let’s try to see the big picture here somemofmthenthings that have been on the wishlist are here and being slowly worked out.

Just the musings of an old music coot or loon for those Ca adia s in the room.

I think I see the problem.

When I open my all midi .sgu file in the VSTi, I see my yellow midi tracks and also see Super Midi Tracks are green (indicating they have been rendered or the app thinks they are audio and need to be rendered). When I generate the midi stay midi and I can drag them as midi, but the Midi super tracks stay green and are audio only.

This is the same problem I reported for the save VSTs in BIAB. The VST on a yellow midi save but the VST on a blue midi super track does not.

Am I the only one who uses Midi super tracks?

RobH, what you said is true to a certain degree.

64 bit BiaB worked on my system from the git go. It did have a few problems for others but, as usual and as far as I know, they were quickly fixed by PGMusic. I knew going to 64 bits would have some problems but lets face it the transition was relatively smooth.

BUT the VSTi was a piece of crap from the git-go and definitely not ready for prime time. Lots of fixes for it have come out, again as usual for PGMusic, but it still isn't right for many people, including me: it may be OK for RT users but it is a disaster for us MIDI users. Peter has indicated that they will be working on it so it performs like a real VSTi for us MIDI users so I know it will be done sometime. Meanwhile it is useless for me.

Being an old timer I know that things will get worked out. But if I were a new purchaser that wanted this VSTi I would have gotten my money back and blasted the Internet about how bad it was. I just hope that one new user does that as I want PGMusic to flourish.

YMMV

PS - I wouldn't complain about generation time, although I will never understand why MIDI users have to wait for the wav generations when all we will do is delete them. I remember using computers with tape as the backup. Sometimes I would wait 20 minutes or so just to have an error in the last minute. Thus rewind and start over. Those were not the good old days!

You are best to upload a screen shot or an animated gif.
This is what I get from a Super MIDI Track:

If this is audio generated from MIDI one can see even here that the exported audio levels are quite low .... As for audio exports the RTs tehmselves seem OK in the corresponding ReatTrack folders however. IMO a serious flaw making the VST useless for serious work. Why has this been overlooked beats me ...

Still, without leveling and normalizing options, and the long rendering times the 1.9.28. VST is still a mile or 2 off compared to BIAB itself ... although a tested mixdown was plm -3.5 dB peaking, OK for a pre master mix for external processing.

PS The mixed master track was a chaos of out of sync tracks .....

Moral is: NO MORE UPDATES please until the VST basics are fixed .... done enough beta testing.

OK, since you showed me yours I will show you mine. Here are two pictures for the exact same .sgu file. BIAB 2019 V612.
1) BIAB 32 mixer
2) BIAB VSTi in Reaper

Just as I described the MST go from blue to green just by opening the VSTi,

Hold on just a minute, you are using the "standalone". That's cheating. This is about the VSTi in our DAW Host. All that other stuff (program linked to a program attached to an app...)is just weird.

From my experimenting with the VSTi I found that dragging the master to my DAW I will get all audio: for some reason the VSTi wants to work in audio. For MIDI one must drag the yellow square icons just after the instrument's name to the DAW. That must be done one at a time. This works for SuperMIDI also. For RTs with MIDI you would click on the yellow icon that is on the right side of that track.

{edit} I see that you are using the fx version of the VSTi. I am using the regular 64 bit VSTi. That may be why you are not getting the yellow icon. Try the regular VSTi and let us know how you make out.

This is what I get with the same songs:

Pipeline based on your pictures my conclusion is MSTs appear only as audio and do not come over as MIDI

Mario,
good catch, I don't for the life of me know why there are multiple VSTis. But So I tried the VST3 and same results as the VSTFX. No midi for MST. I tried the VST and if would not even open the sgu file.

Based on Pipelines pictures I would say we have a confirmed bug since no one can show me a picture where a blue MST does not go to green audio in any of the VSTs.

OK, I got it to work. Inserting a MST from the BIAB VST3 into Reaper.

Given that a MST can actually be used in the VST I have to acknowledge that my issues up to this point have been user error. For all I know the instructions are in the Manual.

However, since the work flow I had to discover to get it done is so convoluted, combined with the fact that no one else seems to be having this issue, I am not going to share it. I simply had to work too hard to discover this and for all I know I am the only one who knows this workflow therefore I may now have a competitive advantage with my music.

But if you really want to know, PM me and I will share privately.

Geez, I should be one of your beta testers. I'm extraordinarily good at breaking computer related "stuff." Dunno why, it just happens. Seems like if there's a problem it isn't me finding it, it's it finding me. IOW, I don't really have to look for stuff in order to figure out a way to break it. I just go on my merry way and, if it's a little shaky, I'll find a way to bring it to its knees in short order. And I'm just your regular run-of-the-mill user too.

Maybe these MIDI file export settings make a difference with saved SGU or MFU files for VST import?: