What is the difference between running using the computer's administrator id and running BIAB as administrator?

Why do I need it at all? Why does BIAB need admin privileges?

A very good question. I don't recall this being asked before. I'll give it a try.

I believe that running a single program as Administrator would be no different from running Windows using an account with Administrator privileges. I could be completely wrong about that.

In the specific case of BIAB, Dr. Gannon has said that he does not run BIAB using administrator privileges. However, he runs the Windows version on his Mac, so I don't know how that affects the question.

For those of us running BIAB normally on a PC using Windows, I think you do not have to run BIAB As Administrator. And I do mean, just BIAB. I think, and this could be completely wrong too, the problems start to occur when other programs are involved that support or are called by BIAB. People using virtual instruments or plugins often report that their problems are fixed when they run As Administrator.

As far as I understand Windows, and I've been doing this a very long time, from the beginning and before, it does no harm to run As Administrator. Do you have a concern about doing so?

Matt's assessment is pretty much accurate.

Even if you are logged on as an administrator, programs only run with standard privileges unless you approve them to run with administrator privileges via the UAC prompt. This is User Account Control, which is a security feature added to Windows several years ago.

Programs need to run as administrator if they need to do certain things like make changes to the registry or copy files to System or Program Files folders.

The Band-in-a-Box *installer* does run as administrator (it associate file types, writes files to Program files, etc.), however the Band-in-a-Box program should not normally need to be run as an administrator. I don't usually run Band-in-a-Box as administrator myself.

However, sometimes while troubleshooting a specific problem it is useful to eliminate the possibility that the problem is a permission issue. For example one scenario that sometimes comes up is that a certain DX/VST plugin might require admin privileges (child processes inherit the privileges from Band-in-a-Box), but I don't think that's too common. There might be some other issues that running as an administrator prevents, but I personally haven't encountered them and don't have a list. It seems to be more anecdotal, that people recommend running as administrator because they tend to have fewer problems on their system...

Thanks
I have a non administrator (dumb user) account set up for running most of my regular stuff, including BIAB. But I know that often the one of the first things that is asked by PG's support staff is "did you run it with administrator". For me the answer is probably no.

So other than running the installer, I should be able to run without admin most of the time.

Thanks - I'll just go my merry way as a dumb user.

Very interesting thread.

Me as dumb user think it has to do with permissions and file/disk access. All sorts of access issues happen with some programs (and especially some installers) needing access to usually protected folders, like the 'start menu' folder in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\. I often use 'Take Ownership' to overcome these, even running as Administrator. F.

1: Yes, interesting thread.

2: I think that Windows automatically adopts Administrator privileges for installer files. By this I am referring to properly constructed MSI Microsoft Installer files, produced by programs such as Installshield etc.

Interesting.

I always run BIAB using "Run as administrator". I know that that was required for Sampletank.

Just now, I tried turning it off to see what happens... this is what I did and what I experienced...

1. Open BIAB64 (without "Run as administrator")

2. Load a song.

3. Generate -- it played fine.

4. I then clicked on the "X" in the top right corner to close BIAB and got the below error. (The error also appeared if I used "File | Exit".)

5. I tried the same sequence of events with BIAB 32-bit and the same problem occurred.

After getting the above error, the only way to close BIAB seems to be using Task Manager.

When I start either version of BIAB and follow the above procedure with "Run as administrator" active, there is no problem closing the program.

On further investigation, the error occurs with closing whether or not a song was generated/played.

I run BIAB from the D: drive.

Regards,
Noel

Is that a USB drive? What happens if you rename your log folder and try again... does that change what happens?

Permissions permissions & permissions ..

Running as Admin eliminates a lot of these issues, which is why it is suggested often.

Just my thoughts.
Do you NEED to Run as Admin .. I dunno, depends on many system settings
Can it hurt to do so .. probably not in my experience with PG Products.

Anytime I see 'Access is Denied' I immediately check the related permissions next.
Not much else causes this error.
You can grant access to specific users, but generally the Admin user has access already.

Hi Noel,

I seem to recall you are running Windows 7, is that correct?

What is your UAC setting? (In Control Panel type UAC or User Account Settings)

Trev

Hi Andrew,

Drive D: is a partition of my hard disk (not a USB drive).

I renamed \bb\data\logs and the error no longer exists. Thank you.

Where do the log files now write if the "log" directory is no longer in action? (Should I make a new one?)

Regards,
Noel

Hi Trev,

Yep, Win 7 here. My UAC setting is the second one up (the option immediately below "Always notify").

Regards,
Noel

With persisting permission issues sometimes i use to edit the particular folder's or file's security settings (via right-click properties). Sometimes i have to manually add my user name (in my case administrator) and give it 'full control' to files, folders & sub-folders. If that doesn't work i use Tweaking.com's 'Windows Repair AIO' to reset permissions. UAC i use 'off', too many errors. F

I would expect the log file to be created in the Data or main bb folder. If you create a new Logs folder, I think the file would in fact be saved there now without error, because I expect the new Logs folder to inherit the permissions of the bb\data folder automatically. The question is how did your original Logs folder get created with the restrictive permissions... I don't know.

I guess it's safe to say that running the program as an administrator has the benefit of avoiding this type of issue all together. It seemed to me that the advice is sometimes overused, for poorly understood problems that could have a completely logical explanation. But yeah, I suppose oddities like this are less likely to happen and to interrupt your workflow, which is a good thing..

Andrew,

I have had been running BIAB with "run as admin" turned off since you mentioned the above.

However...

...today I went to rebuild Stylepicker and the error shown below popped up.

When I exited BIAB and restarted it in "run as admin." mode, Stylepicker rebuilt fine.

If this is also a permissions error, I'm not sure how it might have arisen. I'm running the compressed version of BIAB installed on my hard drive. These folders were first created over 10 years ago and I've been installing new versions of BIAB over the top of them since then. (When I've changed computers, the files and folders have been transferred to new hard drives always maintaining the same structure.)

Regards,
Noel

The manual needs a "Windows for Dummies" chapter .... The clever ones not needing it can always throw it out the window ... however:

In my experience Access Denied messages (for end users) are almost always permissions related (99% +).

However, before assuming it is a PGMusic programming issue, you need to consider whether you've installed/ran *anything* else since the last PGMusic install.

I know I can write an app that, if you run or install it, I could change your permissions settings on various drives/folders. Rarely necessary, but whether it happens or not is left up to the programmer's discretion.

Even if the programmer's test computer running the code hasn't had the same effective permissions changes, some other (user's) computers may have. Often difficult to detect on a user machine without remote access.

That said, I agree I've seen 'Run as Admin' suggested in the Forum at times where it appears to not be the obvious answer .. but it does eliminate a lot of odd issues where permissions 'could' be the problem.
And it really doesn't hurt to try this for PGMusic problem solving (a certain trust factor)
I would be less likely to try this solution to solve an issue with an unknown software I downloaded, but here it's pretty safe to suggest, in my experience.
I've never seen any PGMusic products appear to do anything that causes risk to the system; I guess that was kinda my point. For PGMusic products it likely won't hurt to try, but use this advise wisely in other situations with other software.

I'll try things here I may not try with other software.

Regarding permissions: these tools are to me to be a necessity especially regarding a permissions reset to default, rebooting to safe mode is built in to it, as is SFC:

https://www.tweaking.com/

Still a problem: use this: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/3841-add-take-ownership-context-menu-windows-10-a.html

I don't know either. Were they created under Windows Vista? You could change the permissions/ownership settings of the folder, or just keep running BB as admin and forget about it, like you have been for the last 10 years. This is a good example of a problem that running the program as admin fixes.

Hi Andrew,

Yes, the original installation was on probably Vista although it could have been XP (I'm not totally sure).

I'll have look at folder permissions now that I know about them. I always like an opportunity to discover something new.

Thanks for your help. Appreciate it.
Noel