How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles?

Posted by: berntd

How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 12:36 AM

New user...

The MIDI styles sound mostly dreadful. I mean the sound of the instruments.

I tried few things like loading realtracks for them etc. But I really have not had much luck so far with impro ing the sound.

What is one supposed to with all those MIDI styles to make the sound better?

Regards
Bernt
Posted by: Noel96

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 12:48 AM

Hi Bern,

MIDI is a series of programming commands that plays MIDI-compatible instruments and software synthesisers.

The quality of the output of MIDI totally depends on the quality of the instrument or software being used to play the files. BIAB's MIDI styles can sound excellent when top class software synthesisers are used.

The software synth that BIAB ships with is just a starter synth that's used to get an idea of how the style sounds. Synthesisers such as Kontakt, are superb... but they cost a lot too.

Regards,
Noel
Posted by: VideoTrack

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 01:32 AM

Hi Bernt,

Noel has answered exactly what the issue you are experiencing is. It is related to the external MIDI sound module that is reproducing the audio sounds from the MIDI data commands coming from BiaB.

Replace the MIDI sound module with one of higher quality and your sounds would definitely improve.

What sound module are you using?

Do you have VSTi/DXi checked in the MIDI/Audio Drivers setup options, and have chosen a software synth (see image below)? If so, which one?
Posted by: Matt Finley

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 02:07 AM

As above, it's not the styles. MIDI actually has no sound of its own. In addition to a software MIDI synthesizer, you can use a hardware one (mine is from Roland; see my signature below). There are many to choose from, of greatly varying quality and price.

Go to this page for a lot of info and samples: https://www.pgmusic.com/dare-to-compare.htm Pick a style you like and compare. The page is a little old; some of the choices aren't viable anymore, but it will give you a great introduction to the topic. MIDI can sound very fine.
Posted by: Willy6996

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 02:59 AM

Using a good sf2 can sound better.
Try Titanic free soundfont it's better than the modules on the page wink

I use Samplelord so i can load any soundfont on any midi-chanel.
Posted by: DeaconBlues09

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 03:21 AM

Originally Posted By: berntd
New user...

The MIDI styles sound mostly dreadful. I mean the sound of the instruments.

I tried few things like loading realtracks for them etc. But I really have not had much luck so far with impro ing the sound.

What is one supposed to with all those MIDI styles to make the sound better?

Regards
Bernt


Welcome, Berntd :-)

First of all, I'd like to point out that MIDI, and the thinks you can do with it in BiaB and RB is absolutely astounding in so may ways, and one of their greatest strengths.

As has already been pointed out, MIDI is NOT sound. There are VSTis (Kontakt, East West are just two publishers that issue excellent ones) that turn tracks from the awful sounds you get from the default DXI/Coyote and even the Sforzando player into lush full blown orchestras horn sections and what have you.

Although the analogy is a bit wonky, you can think of it like one of those paint-by-numbers cardboard slates that you then populate with brilliant colors.

Check out these 2 videos to get you started on how to load and work with VST(i)s/plugins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVRtQz8nqvY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WexjietWWhc
Posted by: Teunis

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 03:22 AM

You might be able to get Native-Instruments Komplete Start to work ok. This has a heap of virtual instruments. Or look at Amplesound’s free bass and guitar (not as good as the paid for jobs but are ok). There are any amount of free sampled pianos and the like out there. Also many synths where one can create almost anything they want.

Just a thought

Tony
Posted by: berntd

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 03:42 AM

Thanks.I will check it out.

Can I not just sample my real accoustic piano for example?

I know that MIDI is just a code but I am also confused between a realtrack that I can load for a MIDI instrument track, and super MIDI track.

Also, for getting around this issue, I looked into a Yamaha CDP-125 digital piano for MIDI reproduction.

They now only have USB MIDI and nobody so far jas been able to tell me if that is compatible with MIDI as in BIB.


Posted by: DeaconBlues09

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 03:53 AM

Originally Posted By: berntd
Thanks.I will check it out.

Can I not just sample my real accoustic piano for example?

I know that MIDI is just a code but I am also confused between a realtrack that I can load for a MIDI instrument track, and super MIDI track.

Also, for getting around this issue, I looked into a Yamaha CDP-125 digital piano for MIDI reproduction.

They now only have USB MIDI and nobody so far jas been able to tell me if that is compatible with MIDI as in BIB.




The short answer to your first question is yes. You can construct an instrument based on your samples in, for instance, Kontakt. I would personally do it in Reaper using, IIRC because Iv'e never actually done but seen how it's done) with ReaSamplematic (is that what its called) and Megababy(?)

The difference between MIDI and MIDI Supertracks is that the former are kinda transposing, but static "pattern mappings" and the latter are basically RealTracks, recorded by real musicians rendered into, or recorded in, MIDI.
Posted by: Teunis

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 04:01 AM

Sampling a piano (or any instrument) is very possible but not necessarily very easy. First you need to record the device. For best results every 3rd or so note. The notes need to be recorded at the correct levels and for the correct length for each note. Then you might need another set for a note hit hard and another for a note played softly. Once you have all the notes you then need to create an SFZ or similar type file to play them and a player for the SFZ.

It is a lot easier to use samples professionally done. Having said that it is also good fun to have your own instrument sampled. Years ago I spent considerable time sampling my old Telecaster and actually used it to substitute a bit I could not get right in a song I recorded but I would probably not go down that path again. You may enjoy sampling however.

Tony
Posted by: DeaconBlues09

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 04:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Teunis
Sampling a piano (or any instrument) is very possible but not necessarily very easy. First you need to record the device. For best results every 3rd or so note. The notes need to be recorded at the correct levels and for the correct length for each note. Then you might need another set for a note hit hard and another for a note played softly. Once you have all the notes you then need to create an SFZ or similar type file to play them and a player for the SFZ.

It is a lot easier to use samples professionally done. Having said that it is also good fun to have your own instrument sampled. Years ago I spent considerable time sampling my old Telecaster and actually used it to substitute a bit I could not get right in a song I recorded but I would probably not go down that path again. You may enjoy sampling however.

Tony


Totally agree!

I good instrument will have hundreds (thousands) of samples for multiple velocity layers, round robins, pedal dynamics etc,... TBH, there are a number of excellent free MIDI pianos available online. A quick Google search for "Free piano VST" will get you started.
Posted by: Matt Finley

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 04:46 AM

Yes, a Yamaha digital piano connected by USB should be recognized by BIAB and usable to play MIDI.
Posted by: Mike Head

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 05:22 AM

Hi

As said above the midi styles are fine it depends on what midi device hardware or software that you play them through.
The basic Microsoft one GS wavetable synth is pretty grim
The supplied Coyote wave table will be a bit of an improvement. But it’s not the full answer as it is only a jacket for the Microsoft one to work as a vst I understand.

Many users on here use a Ketron SD2 this is a small hardware synth the size of a small pack of cigarettes and has quite a good sounding voice set.

SOFTWARE SOUND SYNTHS
Be aware not all of the software synths that folks mentioned here have a full General Midi set (GM). Kontak for example you have to choose a voice/patch for each track,
So make sure you chosen synth is GM compatible to just load and use the BIAB midi styles.

Then there are the sound font players have a look at this on my web site.

http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/my_technical_articles2.html#Coolsoft_VirtualMidiSynth_Timbres_Of_Heaven_Soundfont__Sonar_instrument_def

Try the COOLSOFT sound font player and the “Timbres of Heaven” sound font. That’s some good midi sound !
Have fun
Mike
Posted by: 2bSolo

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 06:32 AM

Sometimes edited Real Tracks (samples) can sound a bit jerky. Sometimes you want to take one note out but you can't because it is played at the same time as another note. One good thing about midi is the ability to edit cleanly.

The other things you have to consider are what instruments will be midi, where will they be in the mix and how much you are willing to spend. I'm doing a project now that uses midi piano, organ and drums. They will be down "in the mix." But I won't use the midi bass, guitar or horns because I don't want to spend the money for the top-quality instruments. Also, the horns and guitars will be more prominent.
Posted by: MarioD

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 07:23 AM

Virtually all of my songs in the showcase are MIDI so you might want to give a listen.

I will not repeat everything that already has been said but I will give you some free options for better MIDI sounds:
1-Get Coolsoft soundfont player and Timbres of Heaven soundfont as Mike suggested

2-Get the Free Kontakt player:

https://download.cnet.com/Kontakt-Player/3000-2170_4-10161711.html

And maybe some free Kontakt sounds to augment it:

https://www.productionmusiclive.com/blogs/news/top-10-free-kontakt-libraries

https://www.flstudiomusic.com/2017/03/38-best-free-kontakt-libraries.html

3-Get the free Sampletank 3:

https://getintopc.com/softwares/audio-processing/sampletank-vst-free-download/

Note that there are a lot of sounds for Kontakt but be very careful if you purchase some as some are for the full version of Kontakt only and will not play in the player. This is always marked on the sites so be sure to look for it.

Also note that there are tons of free soundfonts for any free soundfont player.

I would start with the soundfont player and add Kontakt and Sanpletank once you get the hang of MIDI.

If you need any help we are here for you so just ask.

Good luck.
Posted by: jazzmammal

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 10:05 AM

GM (General Midi) was mentioned but I'll expand on it a bit. GM is an industry standard list of instruments. This is so midi files will play the same way on all systems. Patch one, piano is the same patch for everybody. This makes it very convenient but the quality of that sound depends on what GM synth you use. All Windows systems have a built in Wavetable GM synth. Since it's free you get what you pay for. Biab uses GM as the default so if you're using a GM synth all the instruments in a midi style will match up and you don't have to do anything. You hit Play and you hear the sounds.

Sounds great, right? Yes BUT...GM is also very limited. You get two acoustic piano's, Standard Grand and Bright. A commercial NON GM synth like Sampletank or Kontakt for example can have 40 pianos of all different types like German grands, Japanese grands, jazz pianos, rock pianos, uprights, etc. etc. It's the same for all instruments. For guitars you get a ton of different guitar types right down to the type of strings. GM can't give you any of that. You get a couple of generic guitars and that's it. If you're using a non GM synth all it means is you get to manually select which instrument you want to use, it's not simply plug and play like GM is.

Bob
Posted by: Matt Finley

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 12:15 PM

Just as an aside, there is still time to edit and improve the post title to something like ‘How do I get better sound from MIDI styles?’ Prospective buyers read this forum, too.
Posted by: Jim Fogle

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 01:01 PM

+++ A Beginner's Guide To MIDI +++ is a 11:42 YouTube video that gives a very good overview of how midi works.

+++ HERE +++ is part 1 of a 3 part video series that provides a more comprehensive overview of midi.
Posted by: VideoTrack

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 04:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Just as an aside, there is still time to edit and improve the post title to something like ‘How do I get better sound from MIDI styles?’ Prospective buyers read this forum, too.

Good point, Matt.

I PM'd the O/P with this suggestion also.
Posted by: berntd

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/17/19 09:40 PM

Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Just as an aside, there is still time to edit and improve the post title to something like ‘How do I get better sound from MIDI styles?’ Prospective buyers read this forum, too.

Good point, Matt.

I PM'd the O/P with this suggestion also.


Acknowledged and changed.
Posted by: berntd

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 12:27 AM

Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Hi Bernt,

Noel has answered exactly what the issue you are experiencing is. It is related to the external MIDI sound module that is reproducing the audio sounds from the MIDI data commands coming from BiaB.

Replace the MIDI sound module with one of higher quality and your sounds would definitely improve.

What sound module are you using?

Do you have VSTi/DXi checked in the MIDI/Audio Drivers setup options, and have chosen a software synth (see image below)? If so, which one?



Hi Videotrack
Yes, software synth and the setup looks the same as your screen shot except for the MIDI driver box is not ticked.

I will right now try and download the Kontakt-Player and see if that helps. I really need clarinet, piano and trumpet or cornet for my practice home band.
Posted by: berntd

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 01:28 AM

Hi all,

Thanks for all the suggestions. But everyone here is so advanced with this stuff that I did not understand the half of it.

Anyway,
I installed the Kontakt-Player as suggested and read some of the manual but I still have ZERO idea whether it must run as plugin or stand alone nor how to link it into BIB.
It's MIDI setup output once again ends up in the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth. I cannot get it to appear in the BIB MIDI setup either.

The Coolsoft VirtualMIDISynth will not install successfully at this stage.
Posted by: DeaconBlues09

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 01:43 AM

Originally Posted By: berntd
Hi all,

Thanks for all the suggestions. But everyone here is so advanced with this stuff that I did not understand the half of it.

Anyway,
I installed the Kontakt-Player as suggested and read some of the manual but I still have ZERO idea whether it must run as plugin or stand alone nor how to link it into BIB.
It's MIDI setup output once again ends up in the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth. I cannot get it to appear in the BIB MIDI setup either.

The Coolsoft VirtualMIDISynth will not install successfully at this stage.





Did you watch the videos that I linked earlier? Watch them until the end (especially the one titled "How to locate and install..." Towards the end of the video I actually load a bunch of plugins, including Native Instruments Guitar Rig 5

Also, once that's done, keep in mind that in Kontakt you need to load an Ensemble (ens.) first.

Editing to add screenshot
Posted by: berntd

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 02:06 AM

I have not yet watched all your kindly linked videos. Time is of the essence as I really need to practice music (my teacher will complain - again). I will get onto it right away.
BTW: Thank you for all the help!
Posted by: DeaconBlues09

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 02:12 AM

Originally Posted By: berntd
I have not yet watched all your kindly linked videos. Time is of the essence as I really need to practice music (my teacher will complain - again). I will get onto it right away.
BTW: Thank you for all the help!




No worries! I specifically made those videos because I feel that if a picture is worth a thousand words, and step-by-step video is worth at least 10,000!

I actually want to make a whole series of videos on MIDI, but I need to get a better headset to connect to my new desktop and get familiar with a better recording program that automatically ducks the soundcard playback when my voice comes in.

Work is crazy busy now as well, but my time frees up a bit late-summer, beginning of autumn, so stay tuned :-)
Posted by: berntd

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 03:38 AM

Ok, I now had a few glasses of wine to drown my frustration...

I have watched the videos but I am none the wiser except that it is even more involved than I first thought.

@DeaconBlues, you show and mention so many tech terms, acronyms and show folders and screens in those videos that I simply do not have.
The installation of the Kontakt-Player did not produce these either. Or did it somewhere? And you also mentioned that it needs an ensemble first. Say what?

It appears that Without a (really) basic step by step guide on what to do (Pgmusic where can I find that??), I do not think that I will be able to get a better sound out of Band in a Box MIDI styles. :-(

Unfortunately the few styles I mostly want for traditional jazz and dixieland etc. are all MIDI only. It was not really clear that it would take a huge technical know-how beyond actual music making (or a huge additional expense for synth. equipment) to try and get it to sound half way decent when I purchased the BIB.
Unless I am just missing something?
Posted by: DeaconBlues09

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 03:51 AM

Originally Posted By: berntd
Ok, I now had a few glasses of wine to drown my frustration...

I have watched the videos but I am none the wiser except that it is even more involved than I first thought.

@DeaconBlues, you show and mention so many tech terms, acronyms and show folders and screens in those videos that I simply do not have.
The installation of the Kontakt-Player did not produce these either. Or did it somewhere? And you also mentioned that it needs an ensemble first. Say what?

It appears that Without a (really) basic step by step guide on what to do (Pgmusic where can I find that??), I do not think that I will be able to get a better sound out of Band in a Box MIDI styles. :-(

Unfortunately the few styles I mostly want for traditional jazz and dixieland etc. are all MIDI only. It was not really clear that it would take a huge technical know-how beyond actual music making (or a huge additional expense for synth. equipment) to try and get it to sound half way decent when I purchased the BIB.
Unless I am just missing something?



So I know this may seem like a somewhat unusual offer, but if you would feel comfortable enough for me to so, I would be glad to log into your computer via Teamveiwer at a time of mutual convenience and set everything up for you (I'm pretty sure that Sydney and Eilat Israel are in similar timezones, and I do a lot of troubleshooting for a work colleague via Teamviewer as we both work remotely...)
Posted by: Teunis

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 04:01 AM

Originally Posted By: DeaconBlues09

So I know this may seem like a somewhat unusual offer, but if you would feel comfortable enough for me to so, I would be glad to log into your computer via Teamveiwer at a time of mutual convenience and set everything up for you (I'm pretty sure that Sydney and Eilat Israel are in similar timezones, and I do a lot of troubleshooting for a work colleague via Teamviewer as we both work remotely...)


Oops Sydney and Eilat Israel I would think would be 7 hours apart with Sydney in the lead.

Tony
Posted by: DeaconBlues09

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 04:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Teunis
Originally Posted By: DeaconBlues09

So I know this may seem like a somewhat unusual offer, but if you would feel comfortable enough for me to so, I would be glad to log into your computer via Teamveiwer at a time of mutual convenience and set everything up for you (I'm pretty sure that Sydney and Eilat Israel are in similar timezones, and I do a lot of troubleshooting for a work colleague via Teamviewer as we both work remotely...)


Oops Sydney and Eilat Israel I would think would be 7 hours apart with Sydney in the lead.

Tony


Oooops, that's so embarrassing!!! I was thinking of South Africa, which is only one hour behind me. I always confuse those two [cringe]
Posted by: berntd

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 04:41 AM

That is a really kind offer!!
But it should surely be possible for anyone buying
BIB to get this sorted.

Worst of all, And I am actually a computer programmer - would you believe it?

I have now had correspondence with the Coolsoft VirtualSynth person and apparently there is a bug, preventing installation. He linked me a registry patch file. I now have that working.

I can get that to come up in BIB and I can get it to sound different. by changing the Midi output driver to VitualSynth #1.
It sounds different (ok better) and has reverb in it but the drums sound like the beat is back to front.

What can I try next?

Still no luck with the Kontakt-Player
Posted by: DeaconBlues09

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 04:49 AM

That's so odd.

If you want to load Kontakt, you could totally ignore the Coolsoft VirtualSynth thingy.

Would you mind updating your profile's signature to add your specs, including operating system, and which version of BiaB you're using?

Also, can refer back to the "locating and installing..." video and cite the exact time in your video where everything goes wrong?
Posted by: DeaconBlues09

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 05:02 AM

Incidentally, this is the file path to load in Kontakt

C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\VSTPlugins 64 bit
Posted by: berntd

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 05:21 AM

Signature updated.
I have the suggested path and there are only 3 files in there.

I lost it as I do not understand what I am supposed to achieve.

Here is what I have so far: Please elaborate or correct...

1) BIB outputs MIDI onto tracks for different instruments. As in piano.
2) The BIB output pipes into the input some sort of MIDI driver.
3) The MIDI driver output goes into a virtual synthesizer.
4) This synthesizer uses font 5) files ??? or something ??? to generate output into the Audio driver / device.

To make it sound better, I need to replace
a) The synthesizer device /driver 4) or the font files 5)?

Or is this all wrong and the font files are an alternative to changing the synthesizer driver?

I really do no know.

Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 05:26 AM

If it helps at all ...I am afraid BIAB 2019 really made a mess of the midi synths. In the old days (last year) we would just recommend you shell out the 29$ for Coyote forte and problem solved. Since 2019 the lack of compatibility between the 32 vrs 64 bit applications combined with the introduction of some rather wanky 3rd party non-GM free midi sound players is totally a step backwards for this program. Hang in there, things will get better. Smarter people then us will figure it out and get the midi synths in BIAB back to where you don't need a music-engineering degree to set things up.
Posted by: berntd

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 05:29 AM

I added the vst kontakt4.dll in the plugin dialog as per your kind screen shots.

But after that, nothing looks different in that plugin dialog dropdown box. I alos added the *out.dll. No difference observable.
Posted by: DeaconBlues09

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 05:36 AM

Hey,

I will try and see if I can carve out some time this evening to record a video and post to Youtube later.

Sorry I can't respond to all your questions at the moment, as I have some work to catch up on.
Posted by: berntd

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 05:43 AM

Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
If it helps at all ...I am afraid BIAB 2019 really made a mess of the midi synths. In the old days (last year) we would just recommend you shell out the 29$ for Coyote forte and problem solved. Since 2019 the lack of compatibility between the 32 vrs 64 bit applications combined with the introduction of some rather wanky 3rd party non-GM free midi sound players is totally a step backwards for this program. Hang in there, things will get better. Smarter people then us will figure it out and get the midi synths in BIAB back to where you don't need a music-engineering degree to set things up.


Far out! So it is not just me then. I feel a bit better now. My engineering degree is not even much help for this:)
Posted by: Grem

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 06:21 AM

Originally Posted By: berntd
Originally Posted By: MusicStudent
If it helps at all ...I am afraid BIAB 2019 really made a mess of the midi synths. In the old days (last year) we would just recommend you shell out the 29$ for Coyote forte and problem solved. Since 2019 the lack of compatibility between the 32 vrs 64 bit applications combined with the introduction of some rather wanky 3rd party non-GM free midi sound players is totally a step backwards for this program. Hang in there, things will get better. Smarter people then us will figure it out and get the midi synths in BIAB back to where you don't need a music-engineering degree to set things up.


Far out! So it is not just me then. I feel a bit better now. My engineering degree is not even much help for this:)



Glad you asked this question because I have been going nuts trying to figure this out. Will keep a watch on this thread.
Posted by: DeaconBlues09

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 07:20 AM

Did you actually click on the Kontakt .dll file that appears in your screenshot?

It may be worth pointing out that unlike Reaper and most other DAWs and hosts, which have built in "browsers" that quick-scan and load up the contents of a folder, with BiaB you have to *select* the relevant file.
Posted by: Mike Head

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 07:47 AM

Hi

Glad you are getting to grips with Coolsoft.
Which sound fount did you try , did you try the Timbres of heaven, or ChoriumRevA
As mentioned in the link in my other post

(Extract from my web page with links)
SOUND FONTS

My personal favourite at the moment is the excellent Timbres Of Heaven By Don Allen (219 MB uncompressed).
Link below:

http://midkar.com/soundfonts/index.html


Another nice sound font if you want something with a slightly warmer sound is ChoriumRevA

http://www.un4seen.com/download.php?extra/ChoriumRevA.rar


Mike
Posted by: jazzmammal

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 09:13 AM

Originally Posted By: berntd
Worst of all, And I am actually a computer programmer - would you believe it?


Funny, I've said this many, many times over the years. It's the folks with a long time background in programming, IT or PC hardware who have the most difficult time when they decide to jump into digital audio.

The reason for this is PC's are not made for digital audio, they have to be sort of forced into working with it and obviously working in the business sector nobody cares about digital audio unless that business happens to be Sony Studios! This is a whole different world and you have to get it out of your head that you think you understand this stuff.

Just like programming has it's own technical jargon so does digital audio. You're correct and I completely sympathize with your trouble with not knowing what those terms mean. The best way to handle that is the instant you read an acrynym or term you don't understand is to pause right there and Google it. Take VST for example, simply putting that into Google comes up with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology

Audio Driver this:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4026994/windows-10-fix-sound-problems

Here's a beauty that will make you take a whole day off to study:

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/7-things-about-sample-rate/

Biab can have midi tracks and audio tracks together. If the sample rates are not set correctly you get loss of sync meaning the playback between the midi tracks and audio tracks start to drift apart.

These are just examples. This is what I had to do 15 years ago. You didn't learn computer programming in a week and you're not going to learn all about digital audio in a week either. It's important you not only understand this stuff from the software POV but from your Windows OS POV as well because they are intimately integrated.

I'm not going to provide details concerning how to set up Kontakt Player and all that. You've already been told how to do it, it seems your problem is understanding the jargon so just start Googling.

Bob

Posted by: Grem

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 02:15 PM

Originally Posted By: jazzmammal


Here's a beauty that will make you take a whole day off to study:

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/7-things-about-sample-rate/





Yep, it took me a while to get that subject wrapped around my head!!


What I found hard is understanding how to place a VSTi so that BiaB can use it. I finally figured it out, and once I realized the logic behind it, it's really pretty simple! The hard part was getting it through this thick skull of mine. And I wasn't making it easy either!! smile

But I was able to get the 64bit version of BiaB to play a style (TRAIN+.STY (Ballad Crossover w/ Rock Feel+)) using Cakewalk's Studio Instrument's Bass, AAS Lounge Lizard for the Rhodes, Sample Tank 3 for the acoustic guitar and the organ and man what a difference!! I mean it sounds soo much better.

Now that I know how to do this, it makes the availability of other styles that PG has more useful. In fact, the door just got blown wide open!!

So berntd don't give up man! It's worth it.
Posted by: berntd

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 02:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Mike Head
Hi

Glad you are getting to grips with Coolsoft.
Which sound fount did you try , did you try the Timbres of heaven, or ChoriumRevA
As mentioned in the link in my other post

(Extract from my web page with links)
SOUND FONTS

My personal favourite at the moment is the excellent Timbres Of Heaven By Don Allen (219 MB uncompressed).
Link below:

http://midkar.com/soundfonts/index.html


Another nice sound font if you want something with a slightly warmer sound is ChoriumRevA

http://www.un4seen.com/download.php?extra/ChoriumRevA.rar


Mike




I have added Timbres of heaven.
I am not sure what that does though and it appears that I cannot change instruments' settingsin the MIDI setup in BIB when using the Coolsoft driver.
Posted by: berntd

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 02:34 PM

Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Originally Posted By: berntd
Worst of all, And I am actually a computer programmer - would you believe it?


Funny, I've said this many, many times over the years. It's the folks with a long time background in programming, IT or PC hardware who have the most difficult time when they decide to jump into digital audio.

The reason for this is PC's are not made for digital audio, they have to be sort of forced into working with it and obviously working in the business sector nobody cares about digital audio unless that business happens to be Sony Studios! This is a whole different world and you have to get it out of your head that you think you understand this stuff.

Just like programming has it's own technical jargon so does digital audio. You're correct and I completely sympathize with your trouble with not knowing what those terms mean. The best way to handle that is the instant you read an acrynym or term you don't understand is to pause right there and Google it. Take VST for example, simply putting that into Google comes up with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology

Audio Driver this:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4026994/windows-10-fix-sound-problems

Here's a beauty that will make you take a whole day off to study:

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/7-things-about-sample-rate/

Biab can have midi tracks and audio tracks together. If the sample rates are not set correctly you get loss of sync meaning the playback between the midi tracks and audio tracks start to drift apart.

These are just examples. This is what I had to do 15 years ago. You didn't learn computer programming in a week and you're not going to learn all about digital audio in a week either. It's important you not only understand this stuff from the software POV but from your Windows OS POV as well because they are intimately integrated.

I'm not going to provide details concerning how to set up Kontakt Player and all that. You've already been told how to do it, it seems your problem is understanding the jargon so just start Googling.

Bob



Yes but:
I purchased this BIB package to get away from my usual problems with technical issues. I really just want to play trombone and have it provide the band around it. I want it to work and sound great, with the simplicity as shown in the demo videos and without having to spend days to learn all that stuff I do not need to know at this stage in my life.

Just like the average computer user using apps and programs does not need to know how it works behind the scenes.

Posted by: Grem

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 02:45 PM

Originally Posted By: berntd


Yes but:
I purchased this BIB package to get away from my usual problems with technical issues. I really just want to play trombone and have it provide the band around it. I want it to work and sound great, with the simplicity as shown in the demo videos and without having to spend days to learn all that stuff I do not need to know at this stage in my life.

Just like the average computer user using apps and programs does not need to know how it works behind the scenes.



We all were in your shoes at one time. I'm just learning BiaB too! But I can tell you, once you do have it working and sounding the way you want, you will realize it was worth it. It can sound like a band, a real good band, playing for you to solo over! But to have it perform the way you want, your gonna have to give some effort. No way around that.

Do you have any VSTi or know what they are, or how to get them to work? Because if you want the best sound, your gonna have to learn about them. If you want easy, you will get those sounds your complaining about.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I am willing to help.
Posted by: Mike Head

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 04:10 PM

Hi again

Quote
“I have added Timbres of heaven.
I am not sure what that does though and it appears that I cannot change instruments' settingsin the MIDI setup in BIB when using the Coolsoft driv”


Ok first which tracks are you trying to select the midi voices on .
You can do this on the Melody or soloist track for your own playing, or notes entered via notation, On these tracks.

You can use midi voices on any other midi style tracks to change the voices.

You can only do it to realtracks if they have midi note transcription a lot do not.

Use the pull down menu at the right hand side of the track and select gm voice then choose your voice,
The mixer track should indicate your chosen voice in YELLOW.

Don’t forget to
take the tick out of the BIAB use vsti/dxi synth box in your midi settings.
I suspect its on at the moment as you have been trying to use Vsts.

Also don’t forget to select your sound font in coolsofts’ sound font tab from the list of sound fonts that you have installed in Coolsoft. If you select more than one you will get the last one in the selected list top to bottom .
Personally I would just select one (green highlight in box)

Mike
Posted by: berntd

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 07:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Grem


Do you have any VSTi or know what they are, or how to get them to work? Because if you want the best sound, your gonna have to learn about them. If you want easy, you will get those sounds your complaining about.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I am willing to help.


Hello and thanks for the replies and patience from everyone!

So I googled VST and VSTi. The Wiki lists it a piece of software that converts MIDI to Audio and/or effects.
BUT then it lists Band-In-A-Box as a VST but not the Coolsoft and Kontakt-Player.

Wikipedia VST

So I am back to no wiser again :-(


Posted by: jazzmammal

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 08:50 PM

Haha, I can see where that confusion comes from. The Biab VST is a brand new feature for 2019 so the Wiki is correct. However, that's not what you're using, you're using the standard Biab program.

A VST requires a host. Some VST's can run standalone but the only reason for doing that is you have a midi controller instrument you want to play the VST with. Since I play keyboards, there are gazillions of keyboard CONTROLLERS that have no built in sounds. They require a separate synth for sound just like Biab does. Biab is a host CONTROLLER same as one of those keyboards the only difference is Biab is a software host while the keyboard is a hardware host or controller.

Back to the Biab VST. Many people use their own DAW's (Digital Audio Workstation) for song creation and use Biab tracks for part of that and they'll record some part too. Prior to the VST they would create tracks in Biab then save/export them out as wav files so they can import them to a DAW. The Biab VST eliminates that step. They can use the Biab VST as the slave to their DAW host.

I'm sure I just gave you another day's worth of Googling but that's the name of the game. Either you learn this stuff or just give it up now and go on with your life. BTW, there is a long time user on these forums also from Australia named Graham who plays 'bone in a big band. He's been using Biab for like 20 years to practice his parts and to create charts that he emails to other players.

One final thought. Biab really is very easy to use but your problem is you jumped right away into the midi styles which immediately brings up the problem of sound quality which is a huge subject. The vast majority of users use the Real Tracks which bypasses all these complex midi explanations.

The complexity of midi is exactly why most users who are not that knowledgeable on this stuff simply decided to drop midi and use RT's exclusively. Much easier BUT the Catch 22 is you cannot customize the RT's while midi can be edited and exact. You have already discovered that and I agree with you. WITH A GOOD SYNTH the midi styles can sound just awesome. There are tons of midi files out there that are exact covers of famous songs if that's what you need but then of course you are back to what is a VST, how do you set it up, what are the best midi sound libraries and on and on.

A Real Track Style really is plug and play, Input the chords and that's it but they are a compromise if you're picky about the actual style.

Bob
Posted by: Teunis

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 08:55 PM

BIAB comes as a “Standalone” program (.exe) or it can be added to a DAW as a VSTi plugin. The VSTi plugin component was added to BIAB 2019. Kontakt is similar I can be a stand-alone or used as a VSTi plug in.

When using something such as Kontakt one loads a compatible instrument into a “channel” within Kontakt then points the midi track to the channel. There are many virtual instruments available to something like Kontakt.

VSTi’s come in many varieties for example, Addictive Keys is basically a lot of pianos of various kinds. Addictive Keys allows one to make changes to things such as mikes, Compression, tones etc but it is about pianos. There are any amount of drum VSTi’s available. Then there are things such a TTS1 that allow various instruments to got to different channel (basically similar to GM but better).

Then you get into many synths. Say Z3TA 2 where you can design you own sound. FM8 a FM synth that works on a different method to manufacture a sound. In every case one simply points the “midi” track to the synth and it plays whatever instrument is loaded.

Essentially the midi track that you can easily see in the piano roll view in most DAWs is like what the player pianos used (rolls) hence the name piano roll. It is similar to the disc used on kids toys that used to pluck tongs to make a sound. (Hard to say what I mean). In a nutshell the MIDI track itself makes no sound it needs to be pointed at an instrument usually a VSTi. The MIDI track tell the VSTi what note to play, how Long and loud to play it for. There are many more options in a MIDI file to allow the sound to become more realistic. In fact one can see this in a spreadsheet format in most DAWs by looking at the “events list view” of the MIDI track. One can often also get a “Staff View” where the dots are put all over lines that some folk really understand.

This could go on and on as there is so much to learn and even more possibilities (we haven’t got to using MIDI to control lighting, guitar amps, scene displays et. al.). But I will say learning about MIDI not only teaches you more about sound design and production, there is a fair chance it will enhance your ability to play your chosen instrument as it will give you an understanding from a different perspective.

IMHO

Tony
Posted by: berntd

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/18/19 10:37 PM

@ Bob:
Graham is the one who introduced me (via the trombone forum) to BIAB. That is why I am now here.
Unfortuantely there seem to be no Realtrack options for Dixieland.

@Tony:
So is a VSTi one single instrument for one MIDI track or a complete solution that contains and generates all the instruments for the whole MIDI stream?
I know what player piano rolls are, I used to own a player piano restoration business in the late 1990/2000s.
I also know what MIDI is as far as format and output goes. I developed a piano recorder that output MIDI as a final year student engineering project back in the day. It was meant to allow the recording of player piano rolls.
It all gets fuzzy after the MIDI signal since I never went beyond that stage until now.

Regards
Bernt

Posted by: Teunis

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/19/19 01:07 AM

A VSTi can be an individual instrument or an instrument with several channels pointing to different sounds. A drum VSTi for example might have one channel incoming and send its output to 18 or so output tracks. It would see the Midi track coming in for individual drums (based on notes) and each note has a different percussion instruments associated with it.

Something such as Kontakt might have several instruments loaded say a flute on channel 1, a piano on channel 2, an organ on channel 3, bass on channel 4. So you have a part to go to piano send it to Kontakt on channel 2. When you select an instrument in Kontakt it displays a channel just send the midi you want for that instrument to that channel.

Note: I export to a DAW rather than do this in BIAB. I’ve not tried to pull Kontakt into BIAB. There are however other VSTi plugins in BIAB and similar rules apply.

As a matter of fact since discussing this today I have just gone back to look at a song where I could not get a RealDrums track the way I wanted. I thought dumb guy. I went back to the song in BIAB changed the track from RealDrums to MIDI, exported the MIDI sent it to Addictive Drums I was then able to reduce the Ride Cymbal that I found distracting in the original RealDrums track. The Midi was easy to edit whereas the audio not so. It is easy to get stuck on a method.

As with most things there are many ways to arrive at a result. The important thing is to enjoy and not get hung up on technicalities. I learnt a long time ago to experiment and enjoy is the way to gain knowledge and do things you thought were not possible. I used to enjoy programming until I spent years at uni learning the “correct” procedures (which these days have largely gone by the wayside.)

Tony
Posted by: DeaconBlues09

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/19/19 01:38 AM

Update re: making a video addressing Kontakt, MIDI, and all the other stuff.


I actually went out yesterday after work to buy a headset at the local PC store, and he was out. I will try and head into town this afternoon where there are a million shops that stock that kind of stuff.

In the meantime, however, the "stuck note" issue I posted about a while back has cropped back up consistently beginning the second or third time I hit play after closing and opening the program. As I intend to be starting and stopping dozens of times as I demo various features and concepts, this issue is crippling my ability to do anything with this program :-(

I noted that someone else was recently having this issue, and methinks a patch is long due.

I hope PG Music takes note of this!
Posted by: Mike Head

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/19/19 05:40 AM

Hi


Not sure how you got on with my last post re getting coolsoft and timbres of heaven working.
But I forgot to mention if you are having a go at this make sure you take the tick out of the BIAB use vsti/dxi synth box in your midi settings.
I suspect its on at the moment as you have been trying to use Vsts.
This may be why you could not seen to change voices with coolsoft as your midi was being sent to the vst.
I will edit my other post.

Mike
Posted by: jazzmammal

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/19/19 01:25 PM

Berndt, you should have given us your background info in the first place so we know where you're coming from. You already have a decent background in midi all you need to do is catch up a little. You're obviously capable of learning it so don't worry about it it's not that hard.

It was just mentioned to uncheck the VST/Dxi box. Dxi? What's that you ask? That's Windows version of a synth, Dx is Windows sound mostly for gaming. We usually only talk about VST's but there are Dxi synths as well it's just that the VST's are usually better sounding and more expensive too of course.

You've been talking about the Coyote Wavetable synth, what about the Sforzando synth? You have that too. Then there's the free Cakewalk TTS-1 referenced Here

It's a sticky post at the top of this forum from Dr. Gannon himself which is there for a reason, you should have read that already. The TTS-1 is still not at the level of Kontakt and other big name synths but it's certainly better than the Wavetable. The Sfortzando is a soundfont player that installs with a soundfont but you can change it. This was talked about earlier in this thread and people gave you links to some good soundfont libraries.

The Sforzando and TTS-1 are both GM synths so they are plug and play, no manually setting up instruments. Try those first and see how you like them before shelling out money for a bigger name synth.

Bob
Posted by: berntd

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/19/19 02:29 PM

Hi everyone,

Yet again, thanks for ALL the help and persistence here. This is a great forum!
I will look at it asap and report my findings. I can only really work at it on the weekends.

@jazzmammal

I do have Sforzando (it came with BIAB 19) but as soon as I try and select it in the MIDI settings (somewhere), BIAB stops responding (crashes). I do not know what to do about it.

I also had the VST/Dxi box ticked. I have since un-ticked it and the sound did change a lot since then with the Coolsoft Timbre...

I am making progress but it seems haphazard since I still do not know exactly what I am doing.

Regards
Bernt


Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/19/19 03:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Mike Head
Hi

Then there are the sound font players have a look at this on my web site.

http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/my_technical_articles2.html#Coolsoft_VirtualMidiSynth_Timbres_Of_Heaven_Soundfont__Sonar_instrument_def

Try the COOLSOFT sound font player and the “Timbres of Heaven” sound font. That’s some good midi sound !
Have fun
Mike


Mike, I know a little about your music, so if you like Tibres of Heaven, I bet I will also. But I tried the link and downloaded a large 7zip file which I tried to open in WinRAR. No joy, file appears corrupted and will not save a .sf file on my drive. Any ideas?
Posted by: VideoTrack

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/19/19 03:38 PM

Originally Posted By: berntd

I do have Sforzando (it came with BIAB 19) but as soon as I try and select it in the MIDI settings (somewhere), BIAB stops responding (crashes). I do not know what to do about it.

When it crashes, does it generate an error report that you can copy/email to PG Music?
Posted by: Mike Head

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/19/19 04:40 PM

Hi DAN

Try this SF2 copy I have uploaded to my Boxnet zipped with 7z
Size zipped 237 MB.

https://app.box.com/s/5xloadqc78gl4920ozu4326p3dgqru0f

Also you will find a Sona instrument def that I wrote that you can convert to a pat file for Biab on my web site.

Have fun
Mike
Posted by: berntd

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/19/19 04:51 PM

Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Originally Posted By: berntd

I do have Sforzando (it came with BIAB 19) but as soon as I try and select it in the MIDI settings (somewhere), BIAB stops responding (crashes). I do not know what to do about it.

When it crashes, does it generate an error report that you can copy/email to PG Music?


From memory... No. I have to kill the application from the task manager.
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/19/19 04:55 PM

Thanks, I was having trouble with WinRAR not handling the 7z file well. I kept at it and have now just loaded into BIAB 64 within VSTSynhfont64. Seems to be loading nicely, I will have to spend some time listening. Thanks
Posted by: Mike Head

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/20/19 06:40 AM

Hi all

For those of you following the sound font branch of this thread.
I have just created a PAT file for BIAB for the Timbres of Heaven sound font for you.
See my post in the main BIAB windows forum.
Mike
Posted by: jazzmammal

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/20/19 08:57 AM

Originally Posted By: berntd
No. I have to kill the application from the task manager.


Ok Berntd, it's time to get specific. I have two attachments at the bottom of this post Image 9 and 10. These are Screenshots I just took. Open Biab and go to the to the upper left and see the menu tab "Options". The first option is "Midi/Audio Drivers Setup". Click that and you see the window shown in Image 9. Make sure you've selected the Wavetable as your midi driver and you've checked the two boxes on the right "Use VST..." and "Route Midi...".

Right below that is where I have the "VSTsynthFont64" selected. Click that and you see my Image 10. In that window is where you select plugins starting with your synth at the top and you use the bottom 3 for effects. Here are my two screenshots:
Posted by: jazzmammal

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/20/19 09:04 AM

To followup. This forum software is very weird when it comes to posting attachments. The Preview does not show them so you can't tell where they're going to show up and then you can't write anything below where the attachments are.

You'll see others who can post the actual image directly into the forum. You need a separate website to host the image in order to do that. What I did was use the forum's attachment feature. When you click Reply or Quote you scroll down just a bit and below the reply window you see a link called File Manager. Click that and you see where you can browse to where you've saved a screenshot. Click on that then hit Add File.

If you still have problems after you set up your synth like I've shown then please take a screen shot of the same two windows and post them.

Bob
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/20/19 09:15 AM

Let me add picture # 3 to this fine collection. This shows how you insert different soundfont files to enhance the sounds.
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/20/19 09:19 AM

Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
You'll see others who can post the actual image directly into the forum. You need a separate website to host the image in order to do that. What I did was use the forum's attachment feature. When you click Reply or Quote you scroll down just a bit and below the reply window you see a link called File Manager. Click that and you see where you can browse to where you've saved a screenshot. Click on that then hit Add File.


Bob, I did the same as you. No separate website hosting. I use a jpg format and the file is 158k. That may have something to do with the inconsistent behavior.

Also notice I have the updated version of VSTSynthFont64 and I have loaded Mikes Timbres of Heaven, and I have an SF file of my old favorite Coyte Forte DXi GM. I have been very very busy as of late.
Posted by: berntd

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/20/19 05:10 PM

Hello all,
May I respectfully request that we please keep this thread on the topic of the soundfonts and how to improve the MIDI sound.
It has started branching into different issues which makes it hard to read.

Regards
Bernt
Posted by: berntd

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/20/19 11:26 PM

Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Originally Posted By: berntd
No. I have to kill the application from the task manager.


Ok Berntd, it's time to get specific. I have two attachments at the bottom of this post Image 9 and 10. These are Screenshots I just took. Open Biab and go to the to the upper left and see the menu tab "Options". The first option is "Midi/Audio Drivers Setup". Click that and you see the window shown in Image 9. Make sure you've selected the Wavetable as your midi driver and you've checked the two boxes on the right "Use VST..." and "Route Midi...".

Right below that is where I have the "VSTsynthFont64" selected. Click that and you see my Image 10. In that window is where you select plugins starting with your synth at the top and you use the bottom 3 for effects. Here are my two screenshots:



@jazzmammal

My setup looked exactly like your screenshot until a few minutes ago. I think that is the default setting it came with.
I am not sure what you are trying to get me to do from there?

Regarding your screen 9:

Can you please tell me what the MIDI Output driver setting does in relation to the Use VSTi setting using the Synthfont64?

I installed the Coolsoft VirtualMIDISynth and it appears under MIDI Output driver in screen 9. But when I select it instead of the Microsoft GS wavetable synth (screen 9), I still see all the same stuff in screen 10 as before.

It is unclear to me as to what the path of the MIDI to audio is in all these setup options.

@Musicstudent Dan,
I cannot follow what your picture is trying to show me. I see it but no idea where that setup screen comes from nor how you got to that point.

Best regards
Bernt

Posted by: berntd

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/21/19 05:04 AM

@DeaconBlues09 and group

If you are still here...
I have installed the free Kontakt-Player. I have a piano loaded and in the plug in version from BIAB MIDI setup, I can play the virtual keyboard and hear sound ok.

But there is no input from BIAB. I have the Piano set to Kontakt-Player but the piano does not play nothing.

In Kontakt, there is no MIDI input option showing in the MIDI settings.
Any idea how I can get Kontakt to accept MIDI input from BIAB?
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/21/19 05:39 AM

You have a midi channel mismatch. You have Kontakt monitoring Channel 1 but BIAB piano is on Channel 3.

Bass 2
Piano 3
Melody 4
Thru 5
Guitar 6
Strings 7
Soloist 8

Quote:
In Kontakt, there is no MIDI input option showing in the MIDI settings.
It is there in your picture, MidiCh [A] 1
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/21/19 06:32 AM

Quote:
@Musicstudent Dan,
I cannot follow what your picture is trying to show me. I see it but no idea where that setup screen comes from nor how you got to that point.


Hit the Options button in your second picture and all will be revealed. This is where you replace the system GM with soundfonts.
Posted by: DeaconBlues09

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 06/21/19 07:06 AM

Set the channel to "Omni" instead of "[A] 1" in Kontakt, or instead force to channel 1 instead of "none" in the drop down tab of the BiaB plugin dialogue box.
Posted by: Mike Head

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/21/19 07:06 AM

HI Berntd

Don’t forget we took the tick out of use vst, to play sound fonts you will need that back if you are using Kontakt as it is a vsti.
As I said earlier Kontakt does not have a set of gm voices ready loaded .
Each voice has to be loaded in Kontakt and matched to the BIAB channel for that track.
You can see these BIAB channel numbers if you go to options/preferences/channels



You may well find it easier to insert separate instances of Kontakt for each track, that you want to use a Kontakt voice on.
Rather than set up a multi. That way you can set Kontakt input channel to omni for each instance and the it wont matter what channel BIAB sends on.
Mike
Posted by: MusicStudent

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/21/19 07:16 AM

Here is a clue. Get the soundfonts working first. That will give you the better sounds in the easiest manner. Then jump into the deep end of the pool by working with Kontakt. Just a suggestion.
Posted by: jazzmammal

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/21/19 09:53 AM

Yes, I was about to post the same thing. You're experienced with programming and have some understanding of midi so you should understand what I'm saying here. When you're having a problem with software you have to carefully narrow it down by keeping it simple and testing one thing at a time. Don't be suddenly jumping around until you've finished testing a previous thing. So let's back up a minute.

In your very first post you said the midi styles sounded terrible. That aside were you at least hearing all of the instruments? What were you using for your synth? The Coyote Wavetable or the VSTsynthfont?


My point is your screens look correct to me so the question is what changed? I don't have the technical answer as to how midi is routed through Biab because I don't care. All I know is do it this way and it works.

I have the answer for you getting no sound when you try to play piano through Kontakt but lets get past this first.

Bob
Posted by: berntd

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/21/19 07:23 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen....Drum roll...

We have lift-off!

I now have the Coolsoft VirtualMIDISynth working with the Timbre of Heaven font.

I also now have the Kontakt-Player playing that piano channel. (Oh boy, I need instruments {rubbing hands}!!)
That is great progress I reckon!

However, the 2 are mutually exclusive at this stage by the Use VSTi/DXI Synth tickbox in the MIDI driver setup.

Regards
Bernt

Posted by: Willy6996

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/21/19 11:38 PM

You can use a vsti host on BB or use the midi out and a daw for to use more vsti on different chanel.
Posted by: berntd

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/22/19 12:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Willy6996
You can use a vsti host on BB or use the midi out and a daw for to use more vsti on different chanel.


If I knew that bit of info at the beginning, this would have been a lot easier...
Posted by: Mike Head

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/22/19 07:44 AM

HI

YOU can mix and match your default vsti with your Kontakt synth in the same BIAB song project.
You friend here is the Plugins window.
In here you can send some tracks to the default synth and some to instances of Kontakt inserted on other tracks.
Note the easiest way to do this is to first put a tick in the box in midi settings and chose what you want for your default vst dxi

Bring up the plug in window
The instrument and tracks are down the left hand side and correspond with the mixer
The bottom item is to set your default synth you must put this in the top slot on the right see pic1. All your tracks will use this unless you tell them otherwise individually.

If you want to use Kontakt say on the melody or any other track, click on that individual track down the left hand side of the plugins window and insert Kontakt for that track in the top slot on the right to overwrite the default for that track only see pic 2
The mixer will reflect your view.

Note I am working with an all midi style here for simplicity that’s why all text in the mixer tracks are yellow , but you can of course use realtracks on any track.
You will only be able to use your Kontakt to replace realtracks that have midi transcription for the real tracks.
But why would you want to if you like the sound of the realtrack.

To edit or set up your inserted Kontakt at a later date you can get access to the interface by bringing up the plugins window and choosing the track on the left.
Its easier than it reads!
Mike


Posted by: Grem

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 06/22/19 09:19 AM

Mike Head, very good explanation. Thanks.
Posted by: NigelSpiers

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 07/30/19 08:49 AM

Hi Mike,

I have been following this thread because I also wanted to try MIDI instead of just Real Tracks.

I am most impressed with your recommended Coolsoft and Timbre of Heaven Font solution - nice sounds - thanks.

However I'm testing it with a mixed Real Tracks and Midi BIAB Style called:

=ARET_BE.STY

and the MIDI instruments are now way out of time with the real tracks (they were previously in time using Coyote Synth).

Any suggestions?

Thanks & Best Regards
Nigel
Posted by: jford

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 07/30/19 09:26 AM

As I understand it, in BIAB, you can mix and match default a GM soft synth and VSTi synths, but you can't mix and match an external hardware synth and VST synths, because there is only one output MIDI port (unlike in Realband). Because Coolsoft Virtual MIDI synth presents itself virtually as if it were an external hardware synth (even though it uses your sound card for its output), that's how BIAB sees it and so the hardware synth rule applies.

I didn't go back and read all four pages of posts, but if you install something like VSTSynthfont (which will not present itself as a virtual hardware synth), you can run Timbres of Heaven soundfont in VSTSynthfont, and concurrently use Kontakt or some other VSTi on other tracks.
Posted by: NigelSpiers

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 07/30/19 10:09 AM

Hi John,

Thanks for this tip - and I assume if I install VSTSynthfont with Timbres of Heaven soundfont I can then mix and match Real Tracks with MIDI tracks without them going out of time - is this correct?

Thanks & Best Regards
Nigel
Posted by: jford

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 07/30/19 11:32 AM

Nigel, you should be able to, although as with anything, it depends on your computer and sound card settings. But I mix and match RTs and MIDI all the time without going out of sync.
Posted by: Mike Head

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 07/30/19 01:34 PM

Hi John

Thanks for coming in on this.
I had not come across this, as I don’t normally mix real and midi. But its good to be aware.
The timbres of heaven sound font in Vstsynthfont seems like a good one.

I guess the other reason I had not come across this, is in BIAB I often use the Yamaha XG lite vsti that I uploaded and its pat file to select higher banks, as my default synth.
Then off course I have no probs with mixed real content,
Thanks again for your help and interest.
Mike
Posted by: NigelSpiers

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/01/19 10:43 PM

Hi John & Mike,

OK - so I purchased Kontakt 6 this week and tried out the Factory Instruments that are bundled with it - appalling - much worse than Coyote!

So I purchased a Big Fish Audio set of Instruments called "Crossroads Blues". When I played them in Kontakt they sounded fine. However when I then go into BIAB and load an all MIDI style and then link each instrument in the Plugin window to the Big Fish Crossroads Blues instruments (making sure I set the MIDI channel correctly for each instrument i.e. 3 for Piano, 7 for Guitar etc) it plays a cacophony of pre-recorded random sounds, phrases and rhythms which have nothing at all to do with the BIAB style and are not musical at all!

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for your assistance.

Best Regards
Posted by: Mike Head

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/02/19 05:38 AM

Hi Nigel

Not sure what your problem is but all I can say there is two ways of doing this.

Set up a Kontakt multi to insert in BIAB once and chose your channel for each instrument in the multi.


Or my preferred method,
Insert multiple separate instances of Kontakt for each BIAB track and set those individual instances Kontakt input to match the BIAB ch numbers one at a time.
Mike
Posted by: Notes Norton

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/02/19 05:45 AM

I prefer hardware synths. There is practically no latency, they do not tax your computer CPU because everything is stored in the synth itself instead of having to 'do the math' for every note, nuance, and change in the MIDI stream, you can mix and match at will because they all have about the same latency (about 5ms) and when the OS changes, the synths still work (synths I bought when Windows 3.1 was new still work) --- but most of all IMHO they sound better.

Insights and incites by Notes
Posted by: NigelSpiers

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/02/19 06:21 AM

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your suggestions.

I note that when I play the instruments in the "Crossroads Blues" library in Kontakt they play not single notes as I expected but phrases and the instruments are labelled Guitar - Verse 1, Verse Two, Intro, Ending etc. So when they are triggered by BIAB I think they are playing these phrases rather then the notes dictated in the BIAB style.

This non-GM MIDI and buying Instrument libraries is all new to me. So I may be entirely wrong with my above thoughts and further more I may have purchased an Instrument library not designed to be used with BIAB.

If you have purchased a Kontakt (non Native Instruments) library and it works well with BIAB Midi styles and has very high quality instrument sounds (as good or better than the BIAB Real Tracks) then I would love to hear your thoughts and suggestions.

Thanks & Best Regards
Nigel
Posted by: NigelSpiers

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/02/19 06:28 AM

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your suggestion of a hardware Synth.

I used to use an SD2 hardware Synth many years ago before Real Tracks came along and it was fine at the time.

But I have been spoiled by the Real Tracks and I now want the same or better instrument and playing quality for BIAB MIDI Styles - hence my trip down the Kontakt route.

Best Regards
Nigel
Posted by: MarioD

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/02/19 06:39 AM

Hi Nigel,

As far as I know there are no GM modules for Kontakt.

I have Kontakt and a lot of third party patches for it and most all of them are better then the Kontakt Library, which is quite old now. Let use know what sounds you are looking for and we can point you in the right direction.

PS - you might want to start a new thread with something like sounds for Kontakt as its title as some Kontakt owners might not be following this thread.
Posted by: jford

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/02/19 08:20 AM

The Kontakt factory library content is just okay; I hardly ever use. They are just basic sounds; not the high quality sounds that sound designers try to produce. It comes with Kontakt, so you have something to start of with, but better are other Kontakt libraries. I've got some phenomenal sounds that run in Kontakt and wouldn't trade them for the world.

The good news is that now that you have the full Kontakt, you will later be offered some pretty good sales on other libraries from Native Instruments. Session Brass, Session Strings, Session Guitarist, Symphony Series are all pretty cool. And then add libraries from Indiginus and Realitone, and other vendors. While there is a lot of free Kontakt content out there, you can also drop a lot of dollars as well, but there's some pretty cool stuff.

I've got the Komplete 12 Ultimate - Collector's Edition (which I've been upgrading each version since I bought Komplete Ultimate 8 several years ago).

Of course, they key is understanding that, as Mario said, Kontakt is not a GM module; you just use it for specific instruments. In BIAB and RealBand, you have to make sure you match the track channel to the channel you load an instrument on. Kontakt will not auto-load any instruments; you have to do it manually (as I'm sure you've found out).

Also, since it's not GM, you will also find that instrument ranges may differ from standard GM output, depending on the Kontakt instrument you select. There may also be key switches. That's why Kontakt works best when used on the Melody or Soloist track, as you have much better control over the notes played. The notes from styles are based on using a GM synth, and so your results may vary. It can be done on accompaniment tracks, but you just have to pay attention to what's being generated and marry it with an appropriate Kontakt sound library instrument.
Posted by: Mike Head

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/02/19 08:25 AM

Hi Nigel

I feel for you and your venture into buying Kontakt libraries
Many of them are mapped to the keyboard to do all sorts of things using key switching and are not therefore just single note.
I have a very good cine orchestra that plays major or minor legato or staccato chords on strings depending where you play it on the keyboard.
Obviously I cant use that to play midi notes from biab as a string instrument voice.

If I need really good midi voices better than my vsti or sound font players I use my Yamaha Clavinova CVP405 as an external synth, no latency and about 700 midi (using a pat file) voices including a full XG/ gm set.

Might be worth a thought to look out for a decent keyboard just make sure it has a full set of midi voice not just a few pianos

Here is a pic of my hook up this allows me to record from BIAB and includes ALL tracks midi & audio + mic etc. BIAB is set to send silent control chords from the chord sheet to my VH in the clavinova for vocals.

.
Posted by: Matt Finley

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/02/19 09:44 AM

Nigel, once you go down the software synth route, I can't help; others here will. But I'll just comment on your comment that you had an Edirol SD20. So did I. It really wasn't bad at all; for anyone not recognizing the name, it used the Roland sound set. The bigger brothers of this were the Edirol SD80, which I used for years, and the SD90 which Notes used. The sound set was only a little better (and the 90 handled audio; the 20 and 80 were just MIDI synths). I then made the next moves up, to the Roland Fantom and now to the Integra-7. But they are basically just improvements to that old SD-20, which was an improvement to the old 8080.

I also use a hardware MIDI synth, for the reasons Bob gave. I'm a composer and arranger, and I don't want to be bogged down by the computer. The hardware synth just works. No foolin' needed.
Posted by: jazzmammal

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/02/19 10:31 AM

Nigel, I just looked up your Crossroads Blues library. It says it's a blues song construction kit and it consists of "100% live played, hand-made loops". What that means is it's similar to Real Tracks. You get 1, 2 or maybe even 4 bar phrases to use. Take guitar for example. They probably have loops of many different guitarists playing blues phrases using many different guitar types and they also give you all the different guitar midi instruments. All you need to do is understand the differences between using these loops and using the individual instruments. The only mistake you made is not realizing you loaded in loops into your instrument tracks rather than the midi instrument itself.


Now if you like blues styles, try those loops in Real Band I'll bet they sound very good. Big Fish Audio has a good reputation so don't worry, that library is solid. Biab also can use loops it's just if you want to construct a song just using loops then a DAW like RB is better suited for that.

EDIT

For your purposes, I'm totally wrong. I just checked this out further because I may be interested in it myself. This is all AUDIO loops, no midi so unless you still want to keep the audio loops, this is no good for you. There are other pure midi instrument sound libraries available so see if you can exchange this for one of those.

Bob
Posted by: beatmaster

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/02/19 10:36 AM

Sampletank

stands upin my opinion to a lot of other stuff really well , I have tried it against some hardware modules like sonic cell and ketron and its better in some areas than them.

Just putting another wee idea for you to look at .
Posted by: Notes Norton

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/03/19 10:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
<...snip...>The bigger brothers of this were the Edirol SD80, which I used for years, and the SD90 which Notes used. <...snip...>

I also use a hardware MIDI synth, for the reasons Bob gave. I'm a composer and arranger, and I don't want to be bogged down by the computer. The hardware synth just works. No foolin' needed.

I still use the SD90, it's a great synth with some fantastic sounds.

I dabbled in soft-synths a few years ago, and really couldn't find any that sounded better than the hardware synths I own. But that was a few years ago.

Good luck with your soft synth quest. Let us know what you find, perhaps I'll be able to help another.

Notes
Posted by: Matt Finley

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/03/19 10:59 AM

Yes, it's probably time I did another survey to see what's out there in software MIDI synths. One disadvantage of using a hardware MIDI synth like I do is that you can't render a song in BIAB; you must record the output in real time.
Posted by: Notes Norton

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/04/19 06:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Yes, it's probably time I did another survey to see what's out there in software MIDI synths. One disadvantage of using a hardware MIDI synth like I do is that you can't render a song in BIAB; you must record the output in real time.


That's no problem for me.

The advantage after saving to MIDI is that I can stack a half dozen sound modules, all with the same latency (5-6ms), choose the best sounds from each (the bass from one module, the snare from another, the guitar yet another etc.), feed them through a mixer where I can adjust individual volumes and tones, and record them into Power Tracks Pro or another DAW, add a little BBE Sonic Maximizer plug in, and save as an audio file that sounds much, much better than what BiaB may have rendered.

It's a little extra play (some call it work) time, but the end results can be so much better. And playing around with the sound is fun anyway.

Insights and incites by Notes
Posted by: 2bSolo

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/04/19 08:24 AM

I don't have any tips as sophisticated as some of the forum members. But I have been working on a blues/soul project for the last year, and I have learned a couple of cheap and easy things you can use.

The Sampletank piano is pretty good when it's mixed. You can record it, copy it to another track, pan the tracks slightly and make one a little later than the other (offset-just a few milliseconds).

If you download Cakewalk, you can use the TTS piano and do the same thing.

I use Westwood Drums and MT Power Drums, depending upon the song. They sound great IMO.

If you learn how to do some Notation Editing and Piano Roll Editing in BIAB, you might like the results. You can get rid of notes that don't work and put in some you like. In Piano Roll, you can change the velocity (already mentioned) and create crescendos/decrescendos (swells and fades). That helps to get a more natural sound. If you decide to try editing, there are a few things to be careful about. If you PM me, I will share those with you.

Hope something here helps. Good luck on your journey.

2b
Posted by: silvertones

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/04/19 09:27 AM

Midi came out in 1983.A whole lot of water under the bridge. A lot to learn before purchasing a program like BIAB.If I were you I'd set BIAB aside and do all the learning about midi you can get your hands on. Even some experienced people are using VST and VSTi, and DX and DXi interchangeably. Even PG calls their plugin a VST. Which is wrong sort of.
Posted by: MarioD

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/04/19 12:16 PM

Originally Posted By: silvertones
Midi came out in 1983.A whole lot of water under the bridge. A lot to learn before purchasing a program like BIAB.If I were you I'd set BIAB aside and do all the learning about midi you can get your hands on. Even some experienced people are using VST and VSTi, and DX and DXi interchangeably. Even PG calls their plugin a VST. Which is wrong sort of.


I agree with John and I will add a couple more things. Learn MIDI using one program first before moving to other programs. If you are using a DAW learn MIDI in that DAW. If you are using BiaB then only use MIDI in BiaB. Moving around from one program to another can be very confusing to a person just starting out using MIDI.

I would start by using the Kontakt library. Improving those sounds are very easy. Look for some free effects, check out hitsquad: http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/

Look for things like choruses, flangers, reverbs, EQs, compressors, etc. Note, after downloading any freeware be sure to scan both those files and then your computer with your antivirus and anti-malware programs before installing them. Most from hitsquad are bug free but sometimes one will slip through. Effects can make those Kontakt samples shine.

Good luck
Posted by: Matt Finley

Re: How can I get a better sound from the MIDI styles? - 08/04/19 01:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Yes, it's probably time I did another survey to see what's out there in software MIDI synths. One disadvantage of using a hardware MIDI synth like I do is that you can't render a song in BIAB; you must record the output in real time.


That's no problem for me.

The advantage after saving to MIDI is that I can stack a half dozen sound modules, all with the same latency (5-6ms), choose the best sounds from each (the bass from one module, the snare from another, the guitar yet another etc.), feed them through a mixer where I can adjust individual volumes and tones, and record them into Power Tracks Pro or another DAW, add a little BBE Sonic Maximizer plug in, and save as an audio file that sounds much, much better than what BiaB may have rendered.

It's a little extra play (some call it work) time, but the end results can be so much better. And playing around with the sound is fun anyway.

Insights and incites by Notes

I agree! I only mentioned it because it is an opportunity to head off questions about how to 'render' in BIAB when you have a hardware MIDI synth. But I do as you do, and consider it worth the effort. Thanks.
Posted by: Shastastan

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 09/22/19 03:43 PM

Originally Posted By: berntd
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Originally Posted By: berntd
Worst of all, And I am actually a computer programmer - would you believe it?


Funny, I've said this many, many times over the years. It's the folks with a long time background in programming, IT or PC hardware who have the most difficult time when they decide to jump into digital audio.

The reason for this is PC's are not made for digital audio, they have to be sort of forced into working with it and obviously working in the business sector nobody cares about digital audio unless that business happens to be Sony Studios! This is a whole different world and you have to get it out of your head that you think you understand this stuff.

Just like programming has it's own technical jargon so does digital audio. You're correct and I completely sympathize with your trouble with not knowing what those terms mean. The best way to handle that is the instant you read an acrynym or term you don't understand is to pause right there and Google it. Take VST for example, simply putting that into Google comes up with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology

Audio Driver this:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4026994/windows-10-fix-sound-problems

Here's a beauty that will make you take a whole day off to study:

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/7-things-about-sample-rate/

Biab can have midi tracks and audio tracks together. If the sample rates are not set correctly you get loss of sync meaning the playback between the midi tracks and audio tracks start to drift apart.

These are just examples. This is what I had to do 15 years ago. You didn't learn computer programming in a week and you're not going to learn all about digital audio in a week either. It's important you not only understand this stuff from the software POV but from your Windows OS POV as well because they are intimately integrated.

I'm not going to provide details concerning how to set up Kontakt Player and all that. You've already been told how to do it, it seems your problem is understanding the jargon so just start Googling.

Bob



Yes but:
I purchased this BIB package to get away from my usual problems with technical issues. I really just want to play trombone and have it provide the band around it. I want it to work and sound great, with the simplicity as shown in the demo videos and without having to spend days to learn all that stuff I do not need to know at this stage in my life.

Just like the average computer user using apps and programs does not need to know how it works behind the scenes.



Substitute trumpet for "trombone" in your quote and it could have been me who wrote the above post. I don't even know enough to ask a question about this stuff. Per advice from Mario, I'm re-installing my Ketron SD2 rather than having to mess around with the intricacies of "soft synths". Due to a fire and other problems, I haven't used BIAB for a couple of years. Like you, all I want to do is enjoy playing and not get involved with all the tech stuff. Besides music, the other thing I like is woodworking.
Posted by: Notes Norton

Re: What to do with those awfully sounding MIDI styles? - 09/25/19 03:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Shastastan


Substitute trumpet for "trombone" in your quote and it could have been me who wrote the above post. I don't even know enough to ask a question about this stuff. Per advice from Mario, I'm re-installing my Ketron SD2 rather than having to mess around with the intricacies of "soft synths". Due to a fire and other problems, I haven't used BIAB for a couple of years. Like you, all I want to do is enjoy playing and not get involved with all the tech stuff. Besides music, the other thing I like is woodworking.


I find hardware synths to be easier to use, more reliable, and they sound much better than software synths.

Software synths are a good idea, but I just don't think they have surpassed hardware yet. They will someday, but not yet.

The problem as I see it is this. Hardware synths keep sounds in ROM so they are ready instantly. Software synths have to create the sound for every note as it is being played. In order to do this, the soft-synth manufacturer has to play the game quality vs. latency and compromise the quality for less latency.

The hardware synth can store a much more complex sound and have it instantly available. Quality without latency.

Insights and incites by Notes